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  #1  
Old March 25th, 2012, 03:38 AM
Sue Sue is offline
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LR4 vs. PSE

I have been lurking on the Lightroom Forum for a while and have a few questions. My main question is can LR4 totally replace PSE? I keep reading about people having PSE or CS as a secondary editor. I don't want to bother having 2 editors. I have not done the trial yet but am keeping that in reserve as I research the situation.

John Ellis has written a few plugins that get rid of some of my concerns switching to LR4(primarily pdf support). With the advent of these plugins I am more receptive to switching to LR4.

I am a heavy user of the Organizer and have no major issues with it. It works fine for what I want it to do. The Editor is sometimes a challenge but I am fairly proficient with it. Biggest problem to me is which path do I want to take to get to my end result.

Why don't I want to switch? Most people expound the positives of LR, not may indicate any problems and limitation with it. I am comfortable with PSE but recognize that LR4 is probably going to replace PSE in the future.

Adobe's support of PSE is a horror, do they provide better support of LR4? I have stopped updating the Organizer at PSE8. The changes at PSE9 and PSE10 created me many problems. I do use the PSE10 Editor as I wanted Layer Masks.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 06:38 AM
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dj_paige dj_paige is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
I have been lurking on the Lightroom Forum for a while and have a few questions. My main question is can LR4 totally replace PSE?
No, because the set of tools in PSE does not 100% overlap the set of tools in Lightroom. There are things PSE can do that Lightroom cannot, and vice versa.

Nevertheless, some people (like me, and maybe you, maybe not you) find that for the type of photography and editing they do, Lightroom is all you need on 99% or more of their photos. So, despite the fact that the tools don't 100% overlap, you may rarely or never need the tools in PSE that are not in LR.

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Originally Posted by Sue View Post
I keep reading about people having PSE or CS as a secondary editor. I don't want to bother having 2 editors.
Why not? People do this all the time. Sometimes, people have ideas about what they will and will not do, and this gets in the way of them obtaining and using useful tools.

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Originally Posted by Sue View Post
John Ellis has written a few plugins that get rid of some of my concerns switching to LR4(primarily pdf support). With the advent of these plugins I am more receptive to switching to LR4.
You realize that this doesn't allow you to do anything with PDFs except catalog them and open the PDF file. You can't edit it or include it in slideshows or do anything else in LR with a PDF.

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Originally Posted by Sue View Post
I am a heavy user of the Organizer and have no major issues with it. It works fine for what I want it to do. The Editor is sometimes a challenge but I am fairly proficient with it. Biggest problem to me is which path do I want to take to get to my end result.

Why don't I want to switch? Most people expound the positives of LR, not may indicate any problems and limitation with it. I am comfortable with PSE but recognize that LR4 is probably going to replace PSE in the future.

Adobe's support of PSE is a horror, do they provide better support of LR4? I have stopped updating the Organizer at PSE8. The changes at PSE9 and PSE10 created me many problems. I do use the PSE10 Editor as I wanted Layer Masks.
This doesn't really get at any issues you might have with LR other than Adobe's support. It is horrible if you have to call them on the phone, so I hear (never tried myself), but the LR software itself is continuously and vigorously improved and debugged by the programmers (unlike the PSE Organizer).

You specifically mention "limitations", but don't elaborate. What sorts of things do you think would be limitation for your work? What type of work do you do? I think that whatever type of work you do, there are many satisfied Lightroom users doing the exact same type of work.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 07:17 AM
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baycruisers baycruisers is offline
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I find that PSE and LR4 complement each other very nicely. If you have both the PSE Organizer would probably be redundant and unnecessary, as LR is a much better image manager, especially since it is integrated into the develop module so editing is seamless. In fact, you'd want to use LR as your platform and abandon the Organizer to avoid problems with your LR catalog.

My prediction, especially if you shoot RAW, is that you would find yourself using LR almost exclusively and would turn to PSE if you wanted to do some special editing at the pixel level or some other creative projects. You can also buy any number of plug ins, including one that offers layers in LR, if that's your thing.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 08:02 AM
Sue Sue is offline
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My type of photography has evolved to pen and ink drawings of houses, casual family portraits and landscapes. I shoot RAW/JPG. My need for pdf's is that I keep all the articles I am interested in and my recipes in catalogs, all neatly tagged. I have no need to edit them and what John has come up with sounds like it would work for me. Not having pdf's has been a show stopper from the beginning. I also really like layers and use them heavily, I like the flexibility they give me for many of my projects. Not having layers may or may not work out.

The limitations that I have accepted in PSE are: slow response for large catalogs(I limit my catalogs to around 10000), running out of memory(I have plenty), the hazy screen while PSE is doing it's thing happens too often for my liking, having Adobe remove functionality each release while giving little in return, lack of adjustable fonts and color combinations for Adobe's screens,
folder option functionality being removed, the flashing list syndrome(sometimes it occurrs, sometimes not), very poor support.

Things I like about LR: workflow, don't think it makes full copies of edits so saves disk space, sounds like a faster program(TBD). Not having used it that is all I have glimmered so far. I have read very little about LR and problems people have with it. I know it is not a perfect program and would like to know the areas where there are potential problems. Concern about the future of LR support. When PSE was new Adobe had fairly good support and updates, now they are mediocre. We won't know the future answer to this but for now Adobe is actively supporting LR. When I compare Adobe support to other vendors it is severely lacking. If I could easily switch from Adobe I would but I have used PSE since Version 1(Photoshop Album??) and have no inclination to do the work needed to change to a different program.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 08:39 AM
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dj_paige dj_paige is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
I know it is not a perfect program and would like to know the areas where there are potential problems.
Lightroom 3.6 is an extremely stable program, relatively bug-free compared to PSE. Lightroom 4 (just released less than a month ago) has some pretty serious bugs, but I expect them to be mostly fixed in LR4.1, which I hope will be released in the next week or two (but I don't know, really).

As far as what you think are "potential problems", I suggest you be more specific. What is a problem for you may NOT be a problem for me.

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Originally Posted by Sue View Post
Concern about the future of LR support.
I have none.

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Originally Posted by Sue View Post
I also really like layers and use them heavily, I like the flexibility they give me for many of my projects. Not having layers may or may not work out.
This is why LR has the ability to specify other editors, and to make the interface between LR and the other editor relatively seamless. Many people who use LR also use layers in either PS or PSE, and as far as I know, are happy with the process in LR3 and LR2 (although right now this is affected by a bug in LR4, which should get fixed soon).
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Last edited by dj_paige; March 25th, 2012 at 08:44 AM.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 09:11 AM
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I have asked some photography friends if they have any Lightroom books for me to borrow. Our public library doesn't have any available. Once I look at the books I may have a better feel for what I am searching for.

My biggest concern is the Library module, I like some of what it can do but at this point, in the videos I have watched, seems to be missing things(stacking for one,ability to list out all the keywords for another,searching), backup/restore. It could be they are there but had not been demonstrated. The other thing that I use a lot is captioning. Yes, LR has it but it doesn't seem to be as convenient as PSE where you just type in the caption at the bottom of the screen. I also haven't seen a full screen option. Haven't figured out yet if ctrl/+ and ctrl/- work. I need to search for a list of shortcuts for LR.

I am not resistant to LR, just cautious to try it and spend the time if I don't have a reasonable fit.

Last edited by Sue; March 25th, 2012 at 09:16 AM.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 09:25 AM
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dj_paige dj_paige is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue View Post
My biggest concern is the Library module, I like some of what it can do but at this point, in the videos I have watched, seems to be missing things(stacking for one,ability to list out all the keywords for another,searching), backup/restore. It could be they are there but had not been demonstrated. The other thing that I use a lot is captioning. Yes, LR has it but it doesn't seem to be as convenient as PSE where you just type in the caption at the bottom of the screen. I also haven't seen a full screen option. Haven't figured out yet if ctrl/+ and ctrl/- work. I need to search for a list of shortcuts for LR.
Stacking -- Lightroom has this.

Ability to list keywords ... not sure what you mean, there is a list in the Keyword List panel; also the list can be exported to a text file

Backup/Restore -- Lightroom can make backups of your catalog; restore is a simple operation; you need some non-LR method to back-up your photos.

Captioning -- typing the caption on the bottom in PSE is replaced by typing the caption on the right in LR.

I have no idea what Ctrl/+ or Ctrl/- does

Shortcuts -- Google finds several compilations of shortcuts
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Last edited by dj_paige; March 25th, 2012 at 09:31 AM.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 09:48 AM
Sue Sue is offline
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Ability to list keywords ... not sure what you mean, there is a list in the Keyword List panel; also the list can be exported to a text file

In PSE the keywords(categories,sub-cats,tags) are all listed on a screen to the right. I haven't seen anything like that in LR yet.

Backup/Restore -- Lightroom can make backups of your catalog; restore is a simple operation; you need some non-LR method to back-up your photos.

These are the things that concern me a little. I need to now have another method to do the backup of the photos, in PSE when you do a backup everything is backed uped.



Captioning -- typing the caption on the bottom in PSE is replaced by typing the caption on the right in LR.

Is this screen constantly displayed or do I need to click on an icon for each picture?

I have no idea what Ctrl/+ or Ctrl/- does

These have been the standard way to increase(+) and decrease(-) the size of pictures, similar to the [,] for brushes.

Shortcuts -- Google finds several compilations of shortcuts[/QUOTE]

I did say I needed to look.
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Old March 25th, 2012, 09:56 AM
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dj_paige dj_paige is offline
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Ability to list keywords ... not sure what you mean, there is a list in the Keyword List panel; also the list can be exported to a text file

In PSE the keywords(categories,sub-cats,tags) are all listed on a screen to the right. I haven't seen anything like that in LR yet.
It's there!

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Captioning -- typing the caption on the bottom in PSE is replaced by typing the caption on the right in LR.

Is this screen constantly displayed or do I need to click on an icon for each picture?
It's the Metadata panel. You should need to open it once, then you can add captions to all your photos.

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I have no idea what Ctrl/+ or Ctrl/- does

These have been the standard way to increase(+) and decrease(-) the size of pictures, similar to the [,] for brushes.
Works in LR
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  #10  
Old March 25th, 2012, 10:50 AM
Sue Sue is offline
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Paige,

Thanks for all your time. After I get a few books to glance through I will probably give LR4 a trial. The reason I am so cautious is I have tried other products and wasted a lot of time to trash them.

Sue
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