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  #1  
Old April 14th, 2010, 01:54 PM
billferreira billferreira is offline
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Settings for Nikon P100?

The Nikon P100 shoots in 1080P but it appears that Premiere Elements 8 only supports 1080i (or lower) for SD video cameras. We have 3 weeks of desert wildflower video stored as 1080P ".mov" files and would like to edit them.

Suggestions? (Yeah I know, toss PE and get a Mac but solutions that let us stick with PE are preferred; we've been using it for many years and have gotten used to many of its idiosyncrasies.)

Thanks,
Bill
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  #2  
Old April 14th, 2010, 02:34 PM
ATR ATR is offline
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Bill,

Will be back later this afternoon with full details.

For now
(a) How do you intend to export your Timeline?

(b) Can you import what looks like AVCHD with a .mov file extension into Premiere Elements 8.0.1 with any of the AVCHD project preset settings without getting not supported or missing codec messages?

To be continued....

ATR
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  #3  
Old April 14th, 2010, 07:21 PM
ATR ATR is offline
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Bill,

From what I have read from your Nikon P100 User Manual, you are recording 1080p30 (1920 x 1080 16:9 square pixels, using 30 progressive frames per second). The video compression is AVCHD (MPEG-4 AVC/H.264), and the audio is AAC Stereo. And, the file extension (wrapper/container) is .mov.

The least of your worries is progressive vs interlaced video. Of greater concern is the video compression and its wrapper and compatibility with Premiere Elements. Of course, with edit of AVCHD and it resource demands, "computer resources" is another major issue to be dealt with.

Although someone as recently posted experimental additional project presets for Premiere Elements 8, it should not make a difference to your work if you did the following:

Assuming that you are in a NTSC area, use the Premiere Elements 8.0.1 project preset (new project dialog) =
NTSC
AVCHD Full HD 1080i30
That will provide you with the appropriate template from which to edit your video in the Edit Mode Monitor.

Whether or not you can import the 1080p is not going to be related to the progressive or non progressive nature of the project preset. The issue will revolve around the video codec and its wrapper. So, what happens when you try to import one of your AVCHD.mov clips into Premiere Elements 8.0.1 with the AVCHD project preset cited above?

If that is clear sailing, then we will tackle the matter of export. What is your export goal for this Timeline? The party line is that, although you can import and edit 1080p in Premiere Elements, there is no export for 1080p. But, I will suggest a way for you to export 1080p from Premiere Elements when we get to that stage of your workflow.

To be continued....

ATR
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  #4  
Old April 16th, 2010, 11:39 PM
billferreira billferreira is offline
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Imports 1080P and exports 1080i fine

Thanks for all your info.

Choosing the 1080i (1920x1080) option for the project works fine except that we end up with 1080i output as you noted. Well fine is relative because it is so horridly slow.

For what we are doing, "i" vs "p" probably doesn't matter a whole lot and even makes the rendered files significantly smaller. My wife shoots 99% of her video of landscapes and the higher resolution compared to her older camcorder is our primary motivation.

Has Adobe announced any plans to update PE to fully support 1080p? For now, we'll just work at 1080i and enjoy the smaller file size though a processor upgrade is going to be needed.

Bill
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  #5  
Old April 17th, 2010, 10:02 AM
ATR ATR is offline
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Bill,

As for 1080i vs 1080p output....try this,

Share/Personal Computer/MPEG using the preset of HD 720p. Then under the Advance Button for that preset, change the settings for the Video Codec which will be MainConcept MPEG Video.

In Basic Settings...
a. First make sure that you have Profile: = High and Level: = High.
b. Set the Width = 1920 and the Height = 1080 after you remove the linkage between Width and Height by clicking on the vertical chain like icon to the right of Width Height. You can relink it afterwards.
c. Frame Rate = 29.97 frames per second
d. Field Order = (None) Progressive
e. Pixel Aspect Ratio = Square Pixels (1.000)

The rest of the settings can be adjusted as needed, but the essential ones are reflected above.

I do not understand what you mean by smaller size....whether 1080 has i for interlaced frames or p for progressive (non interlaced) frames the frame size is still going to be:
Full HD1080 = 1920 x 1080 16:9 (square pixels)
and
Non Full HD 1080 = 1440 x 1080 HD anamorphic 16:9 where the display is 1920 x 1080 after the 1440 x 1080 is stretched by the HD anamorphic.
Please explain what you meant by smaller size. I just want to make sure that is not related to settings misunderstanding. I suspected that you were referring to the higher resolution for your Nikon P100 vs the lower resolution offered by one of your older cameras. But I was not 100% sure.

No one knows what Adobe is going to do with succeeding versions of any of its software. With the release of Premiere Pro CS5 as a 64 bit application, there is a lot of speculation about Premiere Elements 9 and whether it will be a 64 bit application, be a 32 bit application optimized for 64 bit, or remain the same 32 bit application that has always been.

But, you should be OK for now with the status quo on this interlaced vs progressive consideration and should not be able to notice differences.

Please update us on your observations and progress.

ATR
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  #6  
Old April 17th, 2010, 11:44 AM
billferreira billferreira is offline
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"smaller size"

Thanks for suggestions, we'll try it a little later. But I wanted to answer your "smaller size" question quickly. I'm referring to the size of the rendered movie on a disk. 1080i is only about half the file size on disk as 1080p from what I've read, obviously since PE8 won't burn 1080p I can't run a test.

-Bill
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  #7  
Old April 17th, 2010, 12:13 PM
ATR ATR is offline
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Bill,

Quote:
1080i is only about half the file size on disk as 1080p from what I've read
?????????

This is an important point, so, if you have a reference on which you are basing your understanding of different file sizes for 1080i vs 1080p on a disc, then I would like to see it.

You do mean file sizes and not frame sizes. Either way...I question that understanding without further details. Were you reading about Bluray considerations regarding encoding/burning with preset H.264 vs MPEG2..which is not related to whether or not the frames are interlaced or progressive in nature?

ATR
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  #8  
Old April 17th, 2010, 12:45 PM
billferreira billferreira is offline
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1080i vs 1080p file size

Unfortunately I only kept the info and not its source in my Palm. But the article stated that rendered to a Bluray disk:

format GB/hour
------ --------
1080p 22GB
1080i 11GB
720p 9GB

Actually since our TV is 720 (Panasonic Plasma) and the human eye cannot tell the difference between 720 and 1080 at normal viewing distances (1.5-2x the diagonal), it is kind of silly that I'm worrying about burning 1080p.
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  #9  
Old April 17th, 2010, 02:39 PM
ATR ATR is offline
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Bill,

This has caught my curiosity and, when that happens, it propels me in the direction of finding out the whys and hows.

I will get back to you on this.

ATR
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  #10  
Old April 17th, 2010, 07:02 PM
ATR ATR is offline
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Bill,

I went on a search to see if I could find some online link that might have been the source of your notes.

Quote:
......the article stated that rendered to a Bluray disk:

format GB/hour
------ --------
1080p 22GB
1080i 11GB
720p 9GB
I have not found it yet. But here is my take on your notes.

It is two separate matters, resolution and whether a video has interlaced or non-interlaced (progressive) frames. And, higher resolution the higher bitrates. So what I think that you have in your notes is bitrates (also known as data rates) for Bluray encoding/burn where the abbreviated naming obscures the resolution. So, without seeing the articles from which these data came, I suspect

1080p could be 1920 x 1080 16:9 square pixels with progressive frames per second with a bitrate of 22 GB/second.

1080i could be 1920 x 1080 16:9 square pixels with interlaced frames per second OR 1440 x 1080 4:3 HD anamorphic 16:9 with interlaced frames per second. But, because of the bitrate of 11 GB/second, I would say that this 1080i is not 1920 x 1080, but rather 1440 x 1080 which will be displayed via the player as 1920 x 1080 as directed by the encoded information.

720p would be 1280 x 720 16:9 square pixels with progressive frames per second with a bitrate of 9 GB/second.

Bitrate can vary, but the larger the bitrate the better the quality, but the larger the file size. And, the lower the bitrate the smaller the file size, but the quality declines.

Online there are numerous discussions on whether you get better quality results shooting 1920 x 1080 or 1440 x 1080 to get your 1920 x 1080 display.

If I find the link from which you took your notes, I will post it in this thread.

But as of now the above is how I am interpreting the notes, that is, if you were comparing 1080i and 1080p, both with resolution of 1920 x 1080, the bitrate would be comparible, not half, unless you altered the bitrate to get different file sizes, not display frame size.

ATR
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