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Peek
April 8th, 2006, 01:10 AM
I've just noticed an issue I'm having with Elements 4.0. I haven't had any luck elsewhere finding a solution, but I found this forum and hope someone here can help.

It appears PSE4 is stripping away the camera Exif data of some of my photos when I open them in the Standard or Quick editors. The Exif information from the camera (Canon Digital Rebel XT) shows up in properties when the photo is first imported into the Organizer (including Orientation, so photos shot vertically appear correctly). Once I open the photo in one of PSE4's editors, though, the Orientation and all other camera exif info is lost.

Here are some of the details I've confirmed so far:

-The exif loss takes place immediately upon choosing Standard or Quick edit. I don't have to save the photo after editing for this to occur. Even if I just select edit and close the editor right away without making changes, the exif info is gone. Vertically shot photos appear properly in the Organizer, but they will appear incorrectly horizontal as soon as the editor opens.

-If I choose "Edit with Photoshop" and work with the photo in PS CS2, there is no problem and the camera exif data stays intact. This leads me to believe the problem is strictly with Elements.

-This only occurs with some photos. Some photos from the same camera---and even the same memory card---can be edited without exif loss. I can't figure out why these photos would react differently, but they do. The photos that suffer from this issue do so consistently, no matter how many times I delete and re-import them. Likewise, those photos who don't suffer from exif loss never suffer from exif loss no matter how many times I send them to the editor.

-When I open these photos in the Standard Editor, I get a message that says the file does not have a color profile associated with it, and I must choose how to color manage it. But the camera should be assigning a color profile that is passed on to Elements. I'm assuming that is being wiped out as part of the camera's exif data.

So, how's that for my first post in these forums? I really could use some help with this, and I appreciate any advice. Thanks.
Juergen D
April 8th, 2006, 08:04 AM
-The exif loss takes place immediately upon choosing Standard or Quick edit. I don't have to save the photo after editing for this to occur. Even if I just select edit and close the editor right away without making changes, the exif info is gone.

Hi,
I saw your post in the other forum. It was suggested to look at the data with Irfanview or such. You said you did after opening the images in PSE. Can you look at them before you ever do anything with PSE? Are the data there? Are they different from the ones in the unaffected images? What format are your files (jpeg, RAW,...)?

Juergen
Peek
April 8th, 2006, 09:44 AM
Hi,
I saw your post in the other forum. It was suggested to look at the data with Irfanview or such. You said you did after opening the images in PSE. Can you look at them before you ever do anything with PSE? Are the data there? Are they different from the ones in the unaffected images? What format are your files (jpeg, RAW,...)?

Juergen

The proper exif data does appear in WIndows and Picasa if I copy the photos to my hard drive from the memory card, prior to doing anything with PSE. The data is not lost until PSE tries to edit the file in some way.

As far as I can see, the affected images and unaffected images don't seem to be different regarding exif data prior to editing.

The files I am experiencing this with are all JPG. I do not know if this would affect RAW files too.
Juergen D
April 8th, 2006, 12:17 PM
Hmmm... How do you download the images to your PC? Do you use Windows Explorer or some other software? How do you open images in PSE? Are you already in Editor and use >File >Open? If not, try that.
The one big problem I have here, is that the EXIF data get lost even if you do not re-save.

Juergen
Peek
April 8th, 2006, 02:25 PM
Hmmm... How do you download the images to your PC? Do you use Windows Explorer or some other software? How do you open images in PSE? Are you already in Editor and use >File >Open? If not, try that.
The one big problem I have here, is that the EXIF data get lost even if you do not re-save.

Juergen

Interesting. If I open the image directly in the PSE Editor like you suggested, thereby bypassing the Organizer, the exif data remains intact. To test this, I copied a file I knew to be a problem from my memory card to my hard drive (using Windows Explorer). Then I right clicked the file, selected Open With Photoshop Elements 4.0, which put it right into the editor and preserved all of the exif info. I also tested it by opening the PSE editor and using File >Open to open the file. Again, the exif data stayed intact.

So bypassing the organizer keeps the exif data from being stripped. Seems the problem is occuring somewhere in the transition from the organizer to the PSE editor?
Juergen D
April 8th, 2006, 02:50 PM
Well, I'm glad we are making some progress here! I'm using PSE3 and I am not using Organizer (have it completely disabled), so I could not try to duplicate your problem. Maybe someone else can check this some further...

Juergen
Juergen D
April 8th, 2006, 03:01 PM
One more thought. Please take a real close look at the EXIF data, which had the problem and compare them to the ones that where unaffected. Some time ago I stumbled over a case where an invalid date entry caused a problem with PSE4 (CS2). Be sure that you have the entire listing, not just the data that Windows Explorer shows.
One never knows... ;)

Juergen
Peek
April 9th, 2006, 12:44 PM
One more thought. Please take a real close look at the EXIF data, which had the problem and compare them to the ones that where unaffected. Some time ago I stumbled over a case where an invalid date entry caused a problem with PSE4 (CS2). Be sure that you have the entire listing, not just the data that Windows Explorer shows.
One never knows... ;)

Juergen

What is the best way to view and compare the complete EXIF datas? In PSE4's standard editor, File >File Info... gives me a ton of information, but I have to close the info for one image to see the info for another, and I can't figure out how to print all of the data out, so I can't compare them directly to see what might be different.
Juergen D
April 9th, 2006, 01:01 PM
IrfanView would be a good utility. It does all kinds of other fine things, too. It's free. Download both the main program and the plug-ins.
http://www.irfanview.com

Juergen
TonyW
April 9th, 2006, 02:13 PM
Exifer (http://www.friedemann-schmidt.com/software/exifer/) is another excellent free EXIF viewer that I use.

Tony
Peek
April 10th, 2006, 01:18 PM
Is there any way to contact Adobe directly for help regarding problems like this? Their support section on the web leaves a lot to be desired.
Wendy
April 10th, 2006, 01:28 PM
Hi there ..

They do have a technical support and you can ring them ...

Here is the link:

http://www.adobe.com/support/phonenumbers/main.html

Wendy
Peek
April 10th, 2006, 04:56 PM
Well, I contacted Adobe support, but they were unable to determine what the problem was or how to prevent it from happening. The tech suggested that since I have Photoshop CS2 installed on my computer I should just resort to doing all of my editing in that program instead. In fact, he said CS2 was better for any kind of editing anyway and that Elements was targeted more toward "Grandmas" (I'm not making this up. Priceless.:D ).

I actually prefer Elements' quick editor and easy fixes for the minor adjustments I perform to 95% of my photos, so I guess that makes this 30-year-old guy an official "Grandma".:rolleyes:

In any case, the call ended with the support technician saying he would "look into it." I don't know if I should expect to hear back from Adobe anytime soon.

Thanks to those who have tried to help out here, though.
Wendy
April 10th, 2006, 05:47 PM
Oh my goodness ...

Makes you wonder who they employ !! .. certainly does them no favours !!

Wendy