DSLR Lens

[Norm F]

Hi everyone,

I notice that there are more DSLRs coming out with a larger image sensor. I have a Rebel XT. If I purchase an additional lens and later upgrade to a Canon camera with a larger sensor, will that lens still be good for the new camera? If so, will there be any differences in how it works (I'm guessing that the "magnification factor" will no longer apply).

Thanks.

[w7vp]

That is a great question Norm. I believe that the Canon 5D uses the same lenses as the Canon Rebel XT. Thus while th 5D sensor is full format the camera is designed to be able to use the same lenses. I order to do that I think there must be a focal length adjustment within the camera body itself. Maybe someone else on the forum will know for sure.

Bill

[Codebreaker]

The answer is yes and there is no change in the focal length. A 50mm is still a 50mm.

With the smaller sensors there is an 'apparent' increase in focal length typically x 1.5 - x 1.6. What's really happening is that the smaller sensor is just cropping part of a bigger scene.

Colin

[PaulH]

The answer is yes and there is no change in the focal length. A 50mm is still a 50mm.

With the smaller sensors there is an 'apparent' increase in focal length typically x 1.5 - x 1.6. What's really happening is that the smaller sensor is just cropping part of a bigger scene.

Colin
It's not really an increase in focal length it's a decrease in field of view. There is no magnification gain. i.e. a 50 will view about lke an 80 - but the image is not larger. Unfortunately my 300 does not magnify like a 450...


As to the original question - I don't know which Cannon use full size and which don't - but if you put the small sensor lens on a full size sensor camera you would have vignetting.

- Nikon - all or small size - digital lens on 35 film bodies can work but vingette - all film lens work on their dslr but you are really only using the center portion of the lenses.

[bwolford]

Canon makes EF-S lenses specifically for digital cameras, but not all of them, and EF lenses for all of their cameras, digital or not.

The 5D is compatible with EF lenses, according to the Canon web site.
The 30D is compatible with EF-S or EF lenses.
The 20D is comptible with EF-S or EF lenses.

All new Canon consumer digital camera's that I've seen take the EF-S and EF lenses so any lens you buy now should be compatible in the future. If you move into prosumer (which IMHO starts at 5D) or pro cameras, you are limited to EF lenses. All lenses I buy for my original Digital Rebel camera are EF lenses to maximize compatibility. I live with the conversion factor. Feet make great adjusters to lens conversion factors 80% of the time. The other 20% of the time, I just live with the results.

Some third party lenses are "adjusted" to the lens conversion factor of a particular camera. For example, a 18MM digital lens on a camera with a conversion factor matches a regular 18mm lens on a camera without a lens conversion factor. All they are doing is making an 11MM lens and labeling it as 18MM and making it compatible only with the cameras with that conversion factor... The problem is, if this lens would fit and work on a camera without a conversion factor, it would say 18MM on the label, but shoot as 11MM on this non-conversion camera. Does all that make sense?

Brice

[Norm F]

Thanks guys for all of your input. I think I get it. I appreciate the explanations.

So, right now, I have one of these 18-55 kit lenses. As I understand it, with the 1.6 magnification factor, the lens actually behaves as a 28-88 mm lens. With a camera that has a full size sensor it would actually be an 18-55 then?

[cpittmx]

isn't the kit lens the EF-S? I have been considering this question also as I am thinking about buying the 20D, and I want lenses I buy to be compatible if in the future I upgrade to full size sensor. My understanding is that the EF-S lens produces a smaller image that covers the smaller sensor. If you use an EF lens the sensor crops of the parts of the image that does not fit the sensor. Now if you were to use an EF-S lens on a camera with a full size image sensor the image produced by the lens would not cover the entire sensor and you would get pictures with vignetting...im guessing a black border type effect? Am I understanding this correctly?

Also if you have an EF lens on small sensor and it does this cropping are things going to be cropped that you see through the eyepiece or is the eyepiece only showing you what the sensor sees?

[gez]

An EF-S lens is built specifically for the APS sized sensor. If you plan to up grade to a full size sensor camera it wouls be wise to avoid the "S" lens set. I have the EF-S 10-22. I use it on a 20D. It's a fabulous lens, one of my favorites. I plan to go FULL SIZE but not in the near future. I'm building my lens set and will get the better camera when I feel my photography is worthy.

ps The normal kit lens is not an "S" The upgrade is a EF-S 17-55 2.8 IS. That brings the price near 2K.

Ooops... the 18-55 is an "S" I don't use it much.

[bwolford]

EF-S is indeed labeled to produce the same results on a APS sensor (1.6 factor in Canon land) as the equivalent EF lens on a non-APS based camera.

The EF-S 18-55MM on a Canon DR XT behaves like a EF 18-55MM on a 5D, if there was a EF 18-55MM lens...

I think that does it, but you never know.

Brice

[Norm F]

Thanks guys. I'm clear on that now. I appreciate the advice.

[Grant]

If you choose to use a lens designed for a present batch of dSLRs and use it on a full frame SLR or dSLR you will get atrocious vignetting. That is the sad truth about the present state of the art.

.

[gez]

Brice,

I never thought of it in that way. All I knew was that the EF-s 10-22 is a gerat lens. I've taken some GOOD sohts with it.

[Carbone]

Grant, it expressively says so in the manual booklet of the Sigma lens I got (a DG series). If used on a full frame camera, vignetting will be quite visible.

Ray

[mom to 4]

I had a post somewhere on this forum last week about a lens for my brand new Rebel. I was looking at a telephoto at the camera shop....canon 75-300 for $239. I looked around on line and saw that Target had the same lens ...still a canon for $199. Sunday I saw it at Walmart the same canon 75-300 for $178. So today I went and bought it. I figure even if it is not the best for taking basketball pictures, for the price I will have a telephoto for my trip to Italy in June. Was I crazy???? :D

[gez]

Colleen,

You're not crazy. That was the first additional lens I bought too. 75-300 is a nice focal length and the price is atractive. But, that lens starts at 4.0 apature. You need serious light to take a picture. I soon replaced it with a 70-200 2.8. Then a 1.4 extender. Action pictures will need a faster lens then 4.0. Use it for a while and get 75% back on Ebay, or return it and save and get what you really need.

[gez]

Ray,

Vignetting right out of the camera! Without the use of PSE. Isn't that what we're after? LOL

[mom to 4]

Yikes! I just looked at the cost of the 70-200 lens.......I will be saving for a Long time!!!!!

[Grant]

Grant, it expressively says so in the manual booklet of the Sigma lens I got (a DG series). If used on a full frame camera, vignetting will be quite visible.

Ray

Oh that is an understatement. The lenses designed specifically for cameras like the D70 and the 30D are designed to only cover small chips. This has the advantage of keeping both the cost and weight down. The disadvantage is the really produce grand vignetting on full frame cameras.

Unfortunately, if you are like me and keep one foot in the film world and you what to only have one set of lenses you do have to go for the full frame lenses which are often more expensive.

.

[Carbone]

What a nice, almost pervert, market... You have your full frame lenses. Then comes digital, you get specialized lenses. But only for 5 years because then comes the full frame sensor and your specialized lenses are no longer usable...

I think I am going to recycle my career in cash registering maintenance.. :D

Ray

[gez]

Ray,

You don't still have your 8 track player do you? LOL

[Carbone]

No, but think of it... it's one of those rare technology which will make a come back just as it was when it "almost" left. Regular, full frame lenses.. :)

I still have, however, my Sega Genesis (16 bits game cartridge... wow.. a cartridge.. not a CD... what an archaic form of entertainment.. lol!)

Ray

[mom to 4]

My mom still has 2 old 8 track players.....She probably figures they will be worth something someday!!! I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.....we still have the old Atari!!!!! and ...... it still works. We showed the kids PONG.....they rolled their eyes!!!!!:D

[bwolford]

Unless the gym is lit very well you'll find that lens deficient for basketball action shots. The 70-200MM f2.8 lens was worth it to me as I take lot's of shots in poorly lit conditions (gymnasiums, high school football, etc). It's still not as good as my 100MM F2 or 50MM F1.8, but it saves me from running all over the place to use the "foot zoom" on these fixed focal lenses.

I thought an extender would also effect the apeture of the lens... Can someone confirm or deny?

RE 8 track. I remember sitting in my mom's lemon yellow Toyota carolla in the 70's listening to a new Elvis 8 track of Polk Salad Annie over and over. I loved that song.

Brice

[gez]

Brice,

The 2X extender will turn your 2.8 into a 5.6. So, not so good for indoors. I use mine outside in the sunshine.

[Grant]

Ray,

You don't still have your 8 track player do you? LOL



Apple is expected to make some ground breaking ipod announcements on April the first and it is rumored that the new flag ship will be the i8track. On April the second they will be going on sale in Montreal.


.

[mom to 4]

I think the $1700. I saw for that lens will have to wait for all three kids to be out of HS and college......Then it will be a present to myself for surviving!

[Norm F]

Colleen,

...and that's probably a good price. One of my local camera shops is advertising it at $2,799 CDN. Ouch!

[Carbone]

I think I still have a few cassettes I kept for fun... ;)

Now that I think of it.. an 8 track cassette is larger than a current iPod.. lol!

Ray

[virgo1]

Coffee warning! There is a working turntable in this household. Ray, can you remember 33rpm?;)
Eva

[gez]

Colleen,

It does come w/o image stabilazation for $1140. My feeling, if you're going to ante up for this lens go all the way. I did, it's a great lens.

Eva,

I've still got my turntable and a few hundred pounds of LPs. They're in storage. I don't know why. Last time I checked the LPs were selling for a few dollars apiece. I don't think I have anything of value to a collector.

Brice,

1969--'64 Impala convertable---8 track blasting Cream on the way to summer school. Wish I still had that car.

[virgo1]

George,
My Husband has several Cream LPs.:D
Eva;)

[Carbone]

Eva...

I do have one of those antique things.. ;) I do some music transfer for family and friends.

Ray