Film vs. Digital

[Grant]

This is not intended to incite any riots and I am not sure if it has any relevance but I did find it interesting.

http://www.gommamag.com/survey001.html

[Carbone]

I can see this leading to a war... (NOT!) :D

Ray

[Grant]

To quote a good friend of mine.

"Film shooters suck and should get out of the stone age! er.. wait.. I shoot film. hrm..

I mean.. um.. Digital shooters are morons who just burst fire until they get something right! .. damn... I also shoot digital and have been known to do this as well.

Ah nevermind. :-)"

[Carbone]

Grant... LOL !!!

[troush]

Interesting, they "prefer" film but "use" digital more. Does the convienence of digital (meaning speed/time) out-weigh the image-quality of film?

I think both still have their value. Although we rarely use film at our house these days.

-Trish

[Carbone]

I would imagine if you're in a rush, for that last minute shot to go on the press in 30 minutes, Digital would save the day.

Or cost.. You might do the regular stuff with digital, but keep film for that exceptional moment. Film has not met it's digital counterpart. Though the quality is good, slides film are way, way better than digital for the time being. That's only one example.

Ray

[Norm F]

Ray,

It seems that Grant's film propoganda is starting to impact you. :D

[Grant]

Norm

Ray is just being a realist.

I love the quality and longevity of film and it is my prime source for art work, portraits and weddings. That being said it is impossible to beat digital for speed. Sports and news photographers now have wireless hooked into their camera so once the shutter is pressed the image can wiz through the air to the editor's computer. Longevity is not always the most important aspect of photography, if we consider an ad agency add don't run two years so images for add are very very old at two years.

Now for the life of me I can under stand why pros shoot weddings in digital. Well I can on a financial level but these are images that should last a life time and as yet the jury is still out on that one. Who knows, maybe most people think that a 20 year marriage is a life time.

[Carbone]

I used to shoot film a lot (well, 4-5 rolls per month, that was a lot for me taking into account the cost of it) before I switched to digital. The joy of the Instant gratification passed, and then remained the blown up highlights or difficult to render shadows. That was my JPEG era.

Next came the Canon 10D with its RAW format. Much, much better! No more unable-to-repair pictures! But.. something was missing... The grain, the "texture" of the colour (I don't know what other words to use to describe the grain visibility inside various colours), it was lost.

To add a sort of depth to a picture, with digital, you can increase the ISO, and Photoshop the resulting image to make up for the washed out colours which often happen with too high ISO settings. But still... This induces a colour artifact (I don't know if it's the right again, like creating colour dots which were not present in the original picture).

Now, when I compared slides with digital, hmmm... Different ball game. The dynamic range of the Fuji slide film is much superior to that of a digital image sensor, no matter what sensor your camera has. Perhaps that 39 megapizels Hassleblad is better .. ;) But certainly not that other brand, Nikon.. (hehe!)

However, me being a home hobbyist, I really don't need the extras of the Film. Digital is fine with me. Though, I can recognize the need for it, and most importantly, the loss of it going over to digital. But I surely don't miss the hours spent in front of the film scanner, the dusting of pictures scanned, the 4 days to wait for a film to be processed, etc.. :D

Ray

[troush]

Well, Hmm... My wedding gift from my parents was paying for the photographer (my husband and I paid for everything else). We got a nice album and then were able to order some other prints for other family members. A couple of years ago we got a letter from the photographer with an offer to buy the proofs from her, or she was going to toss them. We decided to let her toss them - two engineers just aren't that sentimental :) .

But anyway, I recall a couple of my friends who actually took their photos out of their albums and scrapbooked them! I was floored. I wouldn't dream of doing that to my professional wedding photographs! (Do it to snapshots all the time :) ) And, reading on Nikonians, at least one wedding photographer lost a customer because he didn't shoot digital. But I'm also noticing that a lot of people want a more "scrapbook" look to their wedding photos. (I, personally, can't imagine why. It was a formal event - the album should look formal!) I'm just wondering if it gives the photographers more options for stuff like this. Or, if it gives faster turn-around time.

I don't know. It's pure speculation. But, with all the bridezilla's out there who throw a hissy fit if it isn't their way, I'm not too surprised. Digital may give the photographers more options to deal with them.

-Trish

[Grant]

Well now I only take the occasional wedding but these two stories shock me.

Oh she was going to toss them and wanted you to buy them? Sounds like a ruthless little b*tch trying to gouge her clients for a bit more. It has been a very long time since I made my full living as a wedding photographer but I still have every image I took, all contact sheets, and the printing instructions on all images that were printed on the back of the contacts.

I always consult with the bride and groom as to their expectations of the shoot but I would never compromise the quality of my work for their whims. My name when on those photographs and if I wasn't going to be proud of them then who should. So if pressed to do something that I felt was inferior I would say good night and give them a list of people that might be interested in doing their job. The funny thing I was never short of work.

[Carbone]

Grant.. I remember sometime ago, you told about how Doreen would help you shooting pictures by wearing a very reflective dress... You're always full of very interesting story!!!

More, more, more please :)

Ray

[Norm F]

Norm

Ray is just being a realist.



Grant,

I'm sure you are right. I do think that one probably has to be a lot more skilled as a photographer to benefit from film. For instance, I need to take about 300 photos to get one that I can feel pretty good about. My goal is to lower that number ;) but its going to take some time to get this down. Mean time, it is nice to be able to just play around and shoot pictures.

[Carbone]

Instant gratification is always a big plus with digital! Even after several years at it :)

A few years ago, I connected my 10D directly to the TV set and start shooting pictures of my nieces and nephews at the xmas familly parties. We had a blast! Instantly seeing each other, priceless :)

Ray

[Grant]

It is true she would wear a white blouse to a wedding shoot. She knew where to stand, just out of the photograph and close enough to the subject so that the some of the flash would bounce off her blouse and act as a fill in light. If I shot 10 feet from the bride she would stand at 5 feet and some where between 45 and 90 degrees from the flash. Later I got her a slave flash on a short pole then she would it move above, around, and under the shooting plain to get the right fill.

[NMarti]

I can't say that I was at all happy with my daughter's wedding photos. He shot digital and her wedding was "one of the first few" he did. The pictures were AWFUL! When we got her album I was so disappointed I demanded a refund. Colors were off, focus was not sharp - and these were not supposed to be soft focus either, and the overall skin tones and such were horrible. He admitted there was a problem "in processing" which they would be happy to correct by reprinting the entire album. They are not a whole lot better but somewhat. Unfortunately - what could I do - have no wedding photos?

The whole point being - why would a professional photographer choose to use an event as important as a wedding to "try out" something he was not fully familiar with without using film backup? I was very disappointed and know that as film photographers they had a stellar reputation in the community as one of the best. That's why I chose them.

Film or digital - well it depends on the ocassion.

[Pauline]

Nancy, considering there are no 'second' chances for the wedding photographs I think it was pitiful that the photographer would chose digital if he wasn't fully comfortable with it! I guess he also figured the same as you did. "oh well, they won't have a choice since these are all there are".

[kerriann85]

Haven't read the article yet.
Grant, standard practice among photographers. They generally don't store the negatives forever. I kind of wish I'd bought my negs now.....

Nancy, sounds like someone made a poor choice in photographers to begin with. Oooops, hate when that happens. (Photogs have to start somplace, just don't let it be with you! :) )

(Maybe after grocerey shopping I'll read the article and catch up on the forum!)

[NMarti]

Kerri
That's the problem. They didn't bother to tell us they would be experimenting with us! They are an established business of nearly 40 years and have a stellar reputation as film photographers. They, quite simply, are the best - the 'go to" photographer for weddings and senior portraits and baby portraits, etc. Unfortunately - they were the worst with digital.

Pauline - you're right - I guess that was their thought. We have made it a point to tell everyone about the bad experience to warn them - insist on film or look elsewhere!

[Pauline]

Nancy a professional should know that word of mouth can be their best friend or their worst enemy and been properly prepared for the job at hand. I guess they didn't put enough thought into it and figured how different could the two be? It's a shame since your daughter is the one that pays for their unprofessional behaviour.

[Wendy]

Nancy ...

Is there nothing you can do to the images yourself ??


Wendy

[NMarti]

Wendy
I have tried - a couple are in my gallery. The ring one is one my brother took using my camera. The other 2 are the photographers and are scanned - but that's the best quality scan I could get.

[Wendy]

Hi Nancy ...

Those look good in your Gallery but on small images it is difficult to see the problems ... such a shame that this happened :(

Wendy

[Jodi Frye]

Nancy, I know you are disappointed but please don't let it bother you too much. The memories you have within you will always prevail againts a tarnished photo. All my wedding photos were destroyed in a fire about 10 years ago so I hang on to my memories as tho they were made of gold...which of course they are. :) Your daughter's wedding was a moment in time that you get to keep within your heart. The photos are just gravy. :)

[NMarti]

Thank you Jodi. I know they are not that important but after paying what I did I was pretty ticked off. I took his proofs and scanned them in and did a lot of manipulation and actually came up with pretty good prints myself and then did a lot of photoshopping and came up with a nice album. Carol gave me an idea for the final image in the album from one in her gallery. A couple are in my gallery and all in all it turned out pretty well. I had it printed at sony imagestation and she is very happy with it. But - you're right - a few years from now she'll probably never look at it anyway.:rolleyes: Thanks for the words of encouragement. I really admire you and your work - even though I will probably not ever reach that point and some of your work is not my taste or something I would do - I still think it is amazing and love to admire it. I'm just in awe of the power of this program and what you do with it.

[Jodi Frye]

Nancy, well it's great that you were able to salvage some of the photos...definietly a 'plus' when you have good experience with Image editing programs ( especially this one). Perhaps you should show your 'revised' work to the photographers..h aha ha...that sounds so evil but I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that encounter ! Keep up the great work and never look back ( except for helping others to stay away from bad photograpers ;) ) Again yes, there is so much you can do with this program...feel priviledged that you can do these things that others could only dream of doing( or pay for ;) )

[Pauline]

Hey I don't even have any wedding photos! At least for the second wedding. :rolleyes: I didn't even find out I was getting married until the Friday morning and we got married on Monday morning. Actually I think my boss found out before me, as my husband and I worked at the same place and he told both our bosses we weren't going to be coming in Monday as we were getting married. :)

I wore my big yellow maternity shirt and blue pants! Even got to wear them many times afterwards for the next two kids. Yes, I'm smiling as I write this. My first wedding was the big one with the dress.......blah blah blah, but my second wedding was the best. (oh yes, and there was that power failure while we were trying to find the Chapel in city hall---feeling our way up the walls in this dark building)

Had our anniversary on Monday (17 years) and as my husband was laying on the couch reading I said, "hey you're doing the same thing you did on our wedding day." :eek: We got married in the morning. Went out to lunch with our friends who were our witnesses and while I was in the washroom (8 months pregnant), they ordered me a virgin mary. We went to the mall afterwards for Ken to get a book to read when we got home. Oh and also my daughter made her precence known as she dropped into the birth canal while walking around the mall. :D

[Jodi Frye]

Pauline, that was a very vivid story...thanks for enlightening us all with the true moral of a wedding :) ...it obviously aint about the pictures :D

[NMarti]

Pauline,
I don't have any either of my second one. Just decided to get married on Wednesday and did it on Friday. I worked for the judge who married us and now 28 years later I'm still wishing I had at least one picture but know it really doesn't matter.

[Pauline]

Jodi it also isn't the big flare and the debt that goes with the big wedding! Had a fight with my first husband the night BEFORE our wedding!! The whole thing was a fiasco!! If I had it all to do again, I would take my second wedding all over again. Besides it's a much more colourful story. :p The girl in the bed next to me in the materity ward made the mistake of asking how long I'd been married. She was begging me to stop telling my story as she was laughing so hard her stiches hurt. It still makes me smile.

Nancy, I guess we've proven that it really doesn't take all the big wedding to make it work! Or maybe it's just the fact that we were smarter the second time around! :rolleyes: