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BoilermakerU
February 13th, 2010, 12:22 AM
OK, new question as I prepare for the final assault on my first DVD with PE8. I have several files I want to include on the final DVD. Should I use:

NTSC DVD Widescreen with MPEG setting under the Audio tab
DV NTSC Widescreen with 48000Hz, Stereo, 16bit under Audio tab

The AVI file seems to be quite a bit larger, so when taking all four files for the project into PE8 and adding menues, etc, will I be better off in the end with MPEG, or will they end up roughly the same no matter what in terms of quality?

Source is AVCHD mostly, with some MP3 and a few pictures.

The flexibility is pretty amazing, but mind-numbing at the same time!

ATR
February 14th, 2010, 10:07 PM
BoilermakerU

The answer to your question has additional considerations since your source is AVCHD and not SD. But, you are heading for DVD-VIDEO on a DVD disc.

The native format of the Premiere Elements Timeline is DV AVI and functions best when that format is the one being edited on the route to DVD-VIDEO. For a long time the strategy on how to work on a large project in small segments has been based on creating multi DV AVI projects from Timeline and then combining them into one new project for export to final product.

In your situation we have:
(a) In your case, you are saving your video segments as MPEG2 NTSC DV Widescreen instead of DV AVI Widescreen. Of course, The MPEG2 version will have a much smaller file size than the DV AVI. Your decision on which one should be based on which gives you the better quality. Under similar circumstances with my AVCHD samples, I have looked at both ways and gotten similar results, all of excellent quality.

But, this all brings up another important aspect of your projects. I do not recall that we have gone into detail on your project assets other than AVCHD. At one point, you mentioned photos. What are the pixel dimensions of those photos? When you get to the master project with the project preset (new project dialog) = NTSC DV Widescreen, how much editing of the photos are you going to do? At this point, you might start thinking about having the project set up with the "Default Scale to Frame Size" unchecked (Edit Menu/Preferences/General) so that you can scale your photos to the Edit Mode Monitor template yourself.

Please review all the considerations and update me on your progress.

ATR

Focus point: video re-encoding degrades video each time it is encoded (including DV AVI), but DV AVI apparently fares better than others before you noticeable re-encoding degradation sets in.

BoilermakerU
February 15th, 2010, 03:14 PM
…The native format of the Premiere Elements Timeline is DV AVI and functions best when that format is the one being edited on the route to DVD-VIDEO. For a long time the strategy on how to work on a large project in small segments has been based on creating multi DV AVI projects from Timeline and then combining them into one new project for export to final product…
Good to know, thank you for that. Sounds like, despite other workarounds, editing AVCHD isn’t the best way to go then. I have AVS4U’s video converter, so I can batch convert the AVCHD files from the camera to DV AVI before even importing them. I was trying to avoid one re-encoding step, for just the reason you mentioned.

I believe most of my older video from my old camera is AVI anyway, so that should be good news for me on other projects. There will be times where I'll be trying to use multiple formats, but I now have tools (and new knowledge) to convert them to AVI before I go into production.

… video re-encoding degrades video each time it is encoded (including DV AVI)…
If I use this new process, I convert the raw AVCHD to DV AVI (re-encode #1) using AVS4U Video Converter. I then import clips in small groups (or even individually, depending on size) into PE8 and make my edits, then re-encode again to DV AVI (re-encode #2). Then I create a final PE8 project with all of the final, edited clips and add menus, chapters, etc, then re-encode to DVD-VIDEO (re-encode #3). Is that the recommended approach?

I do have Blu-ray equipment on the new PC, so when I get caught up on my projects and am using entirely AVCHD (full 1920x1080, 30fps) as my source and want to make Blu-ray movies, is this still the recommended approach? I bought the full HD camera because I wanted to eventually move past DVD to Blu-Ray (gotta use that PS3 for something! LOL), but I have family and friends that will need a copy in DVD as well. You can see where I am headed eventually (not with my current project, but soon) – one movie burned in two formats.

… you are saving your video segments as MPEG2 NTSC DV Widescreen instead of DV AVI Widescreen…
You’ve convinced me to avoid that, I just can’t get a couple of my current projects to save as an AVI for some reason. Once I am done with this project, I’ll probably never use the MPEG option again. I think I used it originally only because it was above AVI in the list of options. Had it been alphabetical, I may not have started down that path! LOL The file are MUCH bigger, but if I have more success with them and they have equal or better quality, I am all for it. The new PC has plenty of disk space (almost 2TB at the moment)!

… At one point, you mentioned photos. What are the pixel dimensions of those photos? When you get to the master project with the project preset (new project dialog) = NTSC DV Widescreen, how much editing of the photos are you going to do? At this point, you might start thinking about having the project set up with the "Default Scale to Frame Size" unchecked (Edit Menu/Preferences/General) so that you can scale your photos to the Edit Mode Monitor template yourself…
I’d have to look at each one individually, but I also bought Photoshop Elements 8, so most of them I have or will do whatever is necessary to make them appropriate size, resolution, etc in Photoshop before adding them to a project. If there are guidelines on size and resolution, I’ll just make that another part of my process for photos – resizing them as I touch them up.

That is one of the things that led me to switching to PE8 – the compatibility and “integration” with Photoshop. At some point, I’d like to learn to make my own menu templates, etc (I know – God help us all LOL) so I don’t tire of the same ones from Adobe.

You’ve been a tremendous help so far. You’re exposing things that they don’t put in the books and literature, thank you so much.

BoilermakerU
February 15th, 2010, 10:52 PM
Like I said in my other post, I don't think MPEG or AVI makes any difference. This is a faulty, shoddy product. At this point, I regret wasting the money on it. Feel free to help the others that want to continue this madness.....

ATR
February 15th, 2010, 11:51 PM
BoilermakerU

I take it all did not go well today. Tomorrow is another day, and I will take another look at this although you may have already dumped your Premiere Elements 8 in the Atlantic or the Pacific.

Hang in there. I had a rocky day with the programs also, but am OK now.

ATR

BoilermakerU
February 18th, 2010, 10:27 PM
No, it did not, but after a couple of days, I am going to keep trying. :rolleyes:

I am going to convert everything to AVI first (based on your revelation that AVI is the native format for the timeline), then re-edit everything, then try again. I did notice that AVI's don't need to be rendered in the timeline until you start applying filters, etc, so I think that may be the better starting point than MPEG (would still rather it handle AVCHD better than it does).

I'll let you know where I land with this...

ATR
February 18th, 2010, 10:36 PM
BoilermakerU

I am following your posts this evening and just caught up with this one.

When dealing with AVCHD (1920 x 1080), DV AVI is not necessarily the answer if you have heading for a high definition export since DV AVI standard or widescreen is standardized for a frame size of 720 x 480 (NTSC) and 720 x 576 (PAL).

But, if you are heading for DV AVI anyway, then converting the AVCHD to DV AVI in Premiere Elements 8 takes on merit.

I will be watching for your findings and progress.

ATR

BoilermakerU
February 19th, 2010, 06:20 PM
Hmmmpphhh! :mad:

Well, for this paraticular project, that's OK. It's a bunch of old home movies shot on 8mm film, so quality won't be that good anyway! LOL

But since you brought that little gem to light, why wuold there be settings in HD Converter and other conversion programs for 1920x1080 for AVI then? I guess it's trying to upscale them? And if so, they will look like poo?

This isn't boding well for Blu-Ray down the road. If I have problems with AVCHD and MPEG, seems like I have no options for high def movies?!

Superhandydave
February 22nd, 2010, 01:32 PM
I think I have the necessary equipment, but my dvds are not HD. Camera: HD-Hero (video is stunning when connected directly to a 52" LCD TV), Adobe Premiere Elements 8, Dell Studio computer (Intel (R), Core (TM)2, Duo CPU E7500 @ 2.93 GHz, Installed memory 8.00 GB, 64 bit operating system.

I've tried directly producing dvds from the Adobe Premiere Elements 8 (pretty good, but not nearly as sharp as the original), producing AVCHD video files and burning dvds using, Roxio, Sony dvd architect, and even windows dvd maker. I'm guessing that none of these are set up to produce 1920 x 1080 videos. The products all seem to look more like 740 x 480.

Basically I don't quite know what I'm doing wrong. (I couldn't even figure out how to post my question on it's own thread, instead I found this one and the previous comment related to my current problem) Oh, I do have blueray burning capabilities, but due to cost of the disks I didn't want to experiment and I thought in theory I should be able to produce a few minutes of high definition footage on a dvd.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
-David Henderson

ATR
February 22nd, 2010, 03:16 PM
David Henderson

First, the new thread business.
a. http://www.elementsvillage.com to get into the site
b. After the Elements Village Home page opens, Log In at the upper right hand corner of the page, User Name/Password.
c. Scroll to the Premiere Elements Forum location in the list of forums, and click on Premiere Elements.
d. The first page of the Premiere Elements Forum List of threads there will open. If you want to start your own thread, look to the upper left hand corder of the interface where you will see "New Thread" ("New Thread" is just above where its says "Threads in Forum"). Click on "New Thread".
e. That should do it.

Burning to DVD-VIDEO format on a DVD disc has a standardized format which includes a frame size of 720 x 480 (NTSC) for both the standard 4:3 and widescreen 16:9 choices. That is it whether you are using Premiere Elements or Brand X.

From Premiere Elements there is no burn to DVD disc for either AVCHD or HDV. For burning high definition video, your choices include:

From within Premiere Elements, Burn to Bluray (Share/Disc/Disc Bluray with preset of H.264 1920 x 1080 or MPEG2 1920 x 1080). You do not have to use a BD-R. You could invest in a BD-RE which will allow for erasing and re-recording that disc.

or

Export your Premiere Elements Timeline, Share/Personal Computer/MPEG with a H.264 1920 x 1080 or MPEG2 1920 x 1080 to get a .m2t file in Bluray format that you can burn to a DVD disc with 3rd party software. This route got a lot of discussion not so long ago with gossamer and others. It started here and spread to the Premiere Elements User to User Forums at Adobe where I also got involved.
http://forums.adobe.com/message/2198821#2198821

or

Loom at the concept of the virtual Phantom Burner with its virtual BD-R disc. See thread at top of this forum on this subject for an introduction.

Of course, all of these are dependent a player that specifies this format on the given disc.

Please review the above....a lot to check out....and then let me know if you need for me to fill in any gaps in your proposed workflow.

ATR

BoilermakerU
February 23rd, 2010, 06:16 PM
This is disappointing, as I bought this thinking I could burn AVCHD to DVD discs as well. I got that impression from an online review of the top products:

http://video-editing-software-review.toptenreviews.com/

You'll notice that "AVCHD Disc" is listed at the bottom for several products, including PE8.

DVD's are cheaper, so for some projects, I'd rather do that and play them in my PS3 than spend the extra money on the more expensive discs for Blu-Ray. I do have a Blu-Ray burner, so I guess I'll just have to pony up for some Blu-ray media.

Back to my original question though, I now understand more about the native format. It's not just AVI, it's AVI 720 x 480. I converted everything to 1920 x 1280 to match the original content (AVCHD 1920 x 1280), and it still has to render everything in PE8 when brought into the timeline. :mad:

I wanted to keep the content at the highest quality possible for as long as possible, because it is my understanding that losses occur every time it's re-encoded, and based on the process outlined earlier, I'd be looking at three re-encodings. If I go to 720 x 480 from the orignal AVCHD 1920 x 1280, then apply filters and such, re-encode, bring into the DVD project, add menus, etc and then burn (re-encode again), won't it look like a steaming pile by then?

I sure hope they get better at dealing with HD content in version 9...

ATR
February 23rd, 2010, 09:06 PM
BoilermakerU

Did you ever read gossamer's classic adventure with AVCHD on DVD disc?
In Premiere Elements you can export your AVCHD Timeline to Share/Personal Computer/MPEG with a preset of H.264 or MPEG2 1920 x 1080 to get a .m2t file that you can burn to a DVD disc. The capacity of the DVD disc and the size of the AVCHD file pose limitations on this process.
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/481526?tstart=0

That overview in the review seems very misleading with some of its check marks. Reading it, it would almost seem that you could burn your Timeline to VCD (VCD format on CD) in Premiere Elements among other things.

The only time you do not have to render the Timeline is when the import is DV AVI, that is, a file with DV compression in an AVI wrapper. The format requires a frame size of 720 x 480 for NTSC both standard 4:3 and widescreen 16:9.

There are programs, not Premiere Elements, that feature Smart Rendering of AVCHD and other such features to minimize re-coding of video. The merit of DV AVI is that it degrades less than other formats with re-encoding. But, DV AVI has a standardized frame size of 720 x 480 standard or widescreen as I said before.

ATR

BoilermakerU
February 23rd, 2010, 11:34 PM
Yeah, I read through it. That's more work than I was hoping for in order to get movies, complete with menus, chapters, etc, onto a DVD in AVCHD format. Like I said, since I have a Blu-Ray burner, I'll just go that route. The discs are expensive, but my time is worth something, and the more steps I have to go through and the more software I have to buy/download and install, the more chances there are for me to screw something up and get frustrated.

HD isn't new though, you'd think by now Adobe would catch on (as well as the others that have not yet).

More interesting findings. I re-converted the orignal to AVI 720x480 16X9, yet the timeline still wants to render it. Now I am guessing you are going to tell me there is a very specific bitrate and other factors I need to set in order for it to match the timeline's native format? :mad: I used FreeHD Converter 1.2 (only thing I could find from the other thread that works - 1.6 still doesn't I take it), and it doesn't have a drop-down or anything for that variable, so I matched the rate to that of the original.

Can you tell me the other parameters I need to set FreeHD converter to besides 720x480 to match the native format? At this rate, I'll be too old to watch this thing by the time I get it figured out and finished (has to be done by Saturday though LOL). :(

ATR
February 24th, 2010, 10:38 AM
BoilermakerU

I think that we need to explore the "native format of the Premiere Elements Timeline" one more time.

This Premiere Elements Timeline native format is DV AVI. The DV is the compression type, and the AVI is the wrapper part. DV AVI, the standard (4:3) or the widescreen (16:9), has the same frame size (NTSC 720 x 480 and PAL 720 x 576). In the case of the widescreen, a 16:9 flag stretches the video for display after encoding. These are the species that you should not have render on the Premiere Elements Timeline to get the best possible preview (no red line over the Timeline). By the way, the typical bitrate of DV AVI is about 3.6 MB/s (megabytes per second) which is equivalent to about 29607 kbps (kilobits per second).

When you are dealing with high definition video, AVCHD 1920 x 1080 (or 1440 x 1080), other considerations enter into the decision making. Typically you want to convert the AVCHD into a less resource demanding format to survive the Premiere Elements "experience". A popular way is the Koyote Soft HD Converter where your AVCHD (.mts or .m2ts) is converted to MPEG2 1920 x 1080 (if necessary 1280 x 720, no 1440 x 1080 available). It is that MPEG2 1920 x 1080 that you attempt to use in your Premiere Elements project with or without the Ozpeter proxy routine. That is the typical recommendation. BUT, the Koyote Soft HD Converter does offer an "AVI", instead of an "MPEG2", choice where you can set for a frame size of 1920 x 1080, 1280 x 720, 720 x 480, and other. Whichever frame size you set and whichever bitrate you set, this is NOT DV AVI. The compression is not DV, but it does have an AVI wrapper. You can check out all that by evaluating your file properties with the free utility named gspot
http://www.headbands.com/gspot/v26x/quick_start.html

So,

a. Koyote Soft HD Converter can be incorporated into a work flow in order to work with AVCHD in a less resource demanding form, typically MPEG2 1920 x 1080. Other Koyote Soft HD Converter Output "Formats" are available (including "AVI", but none are "DV AVI".

b. Not having to render the Premiere Elements Timeline to get the best possible preview of the end product is associated with importing DV AVI to the Premiere Elements Timeline.

Whatever stage you are at now, is it appropriate to think in terms of working with the your project in segments so that
a. each segment is derived from AVCHD and other assets and imported into Premiere Elements (with a project preset appropriate for a possible mixed Timeline), exported and saved DV AVI Widescreen.
b. when all the DV AVI Widescreens are saved, then bring them into one new project (project preset new project dialog = NTSC DV Widescreen) and export the Timeline to yield your DVD-VIDEO widescreen?

Please let me know if you are OK with what I have written. What I have written applies to your specific situation where your source media are AVCHD and you want an end product that it is DVD-VIDEO on a DVD disc.

ATR

BoilermakerU
February 24th, 2010, 10:48 PM
OK, I am starting to understand. I guess I missed the subtlety about DV AVI vs other compression types. Since I haven't seen a preset for converting to DV AVI in any of the conversion utilities I have looked into, I guess I got sidetracked a bit by trying to adjust other settings to match it up.

So, that begs the question, are there any conversion utilites that can abtch convert clips to DV AVI? FreeHD Converter doesn't so what does? To answer the following question, no, it's not within the realm of possibility for this or any other project to convert clips one by one using PE8. If that's the pain one has to go through to achieve success with this program, then I am going to cut my losses ($80 and more hours than I can count) and buy something else, as this is obviously a half-baked product at best. I can't believe it to be that, but it surely is looking that way.

...Whatever stage you are at now, is it appropriate to think in terms of working with the your project in segments so that
a. each segment is derived from AVCHD and other assets and imported into Premiere Elements (with a project preset appropriate for a possible mixed Timeline), exported and saved DV AVI Widescreen.
b. when all the DV AVI Widescreens are saved, then bring them into one new project (project preset new project dialog = NTSC DV Widescreen) and export the Timeline to yield your DVD-VIDEO widescreen?...

THis forum is FILLED with problems editing AVCHD, so this isn't specific to my situation. This is a widespread issue, it just manifests itself in various questions and situations. AVCHD is not some off the wall format, it's a pretty common format these days as I am finding out through this and other forums and research. OK, end of rant. :rolleyes:

So, any chance you have any experience with AVS Video Converter and it's conversion capabilities? Again, I don't see anything labeled V AVI, but they do have a good number of AVI presets, labelled things such as HD Video amoung others.

I REALLY want PE8 to work out for me, because the more I use it on the editing front, the more I like it. I am learning some really fun things to to with it (keyframing to animate things :D ), so I need to be able to get a final product with it!

ATR
February 25th, 2010, 11:11 AM
BoilermakerU

Recap...
1. If you have AVCHD source media that you want to use in a Premiere Elements project destined for DVD-VIDEO...
a. Project Preset: NTSC AVCHD Full or Non Full and export Share/Disc/Disc DVD. The Full or Non Full decision is based on what you actually recorded.
If that is too resource demanding for your computer environment then...
b. Convert the AVCHD to MPEG2 1920 x 1080 with a software such as Koyote Soft HD Converter and use the MPEG2 1920 x 1080 version in Premiere Elements with a project preset NTSC AVCHD Full or Non Full and export Share/Disc/Disc DVD. If that is still too resource demanding for your computer environment then you could try the same using the Koyote Soft HD Converter MPEG2 1280 x 720 or any other Output Format that gives you good quality or incorporate the method of Ozpeter into this type of workflow. And, if that is too resource demanding for your computer environment then...
c. Try converting the AVCHD to DV AVI beforehand since the AVCHD is going to end up being DVD-VIDEO anyway. DV AVI and DVD-VIDEO spell 720 x 480 (in your case, the Widescreen type). You can import the AVCHD into Premiere Elements and convert it to DV AVI Widescreen in Premiere Elements 8 (See Share/Personal Computer/AVI with the appropriate preset. That does one Timeline content at a time.)
and
You might want to take a look at the Corel product that is mentioned in the following FAQ from the Premiere Elements User to User Forum at Adobe.
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/390605?tstart=0

We have been up and down a lot of roads in your project(s), so just to make sure I am up to date, what is the up to the minute status on what you can do or not do with your AVCHD footage, namely, what is giving you the best quality and how far are you getting to the goal of DVD-VIDEO, and what is the major block(s)...quality, crashes, other?

To be continued....

ATR

BoilermakerU
February 25th, 2010, 10:59 PM
Yes, we have been down a lot of roads, haven't we. Sorry about that. Every village needs an idiot, even Elements Village... :rolleyes:

So, here's the recap. My source is Full HD (1920x1080, 30fps) AVCHD rom a Canon HF20. I think I got that part right... LOL I then converted everything to AVI using FreeHD Converter:

Format - AVI
Size - 1920 x 1080, 16/9
FPS - 30
Video Bitrate - 16820
Audio Bitrate - 256

I've long since given up on the oiginal project, I started it all over to make sure I cover as many o the bases we've discussed as possible, including preset. I am using NTSC - HDV - 1080i 30 as the project preset.

As before, I don't have too many issues with the current phase of my project, which is editing. Sure, I get crashes and the program locks up now and then, but I've come to live with them, much like the cats my wife bought that keep breaking our dishes... LOL

I don't think it is my PC, unless it's somehow related o my 64 bit Windows 7 and the application being 32 bit. My PC is a brand new Core i7-870 wit 8GB RAM and an ATI video card (no nVidia issue to conten with). My OS an PE8 are installed on a 60GB SSD while the rest of my fils are split between two 1TB 7,200 RPM WD Caviar Black drives. My projects and the source files are on one of those drives, an the scratch files are on the other. That's three physically different drives sharing the duties.

So, since I started over, the up to the minute status is that I am re-editing everything with the new project so I won't have any results until I get to the DVD burn phase, which is where I had the latest round of issues. I couldn't burn a DVD complete with Menu and Chapters. I could get menus, no chapters.

I hope to have more detailed status by Saturday as I hope to burn to DVD over night tommorrow night as/if I sleep... :D

I do appreciate all your help (and encouragement). I guess the one thing that has not been ruled out is user error...

ATR
February 26th, 2010, 09:46 AM
BoilermakerU

No issue is insignificant if it is an issue holding us back from moving forward with these projects. It does not matter if the core of the problem is the computer, the program, or "user error". We need to find the cause.

I was very encouraged by your status recap. If Create Menus continues to be the block point, then we will blast away on that aspect of the project from the point of view of:
a. specific menu and different choice of menu
b. markers and marker placement
c. amount of resources being used by choice of menu coupled with how "loaded" the Timeline is at the Create Menu stage of the program.
d. everything else

So, looking forward to your next report on this current new project and how it fares through the Create Menu stage. Remember to keep a log of your troubleshooting.

ATR

BoilermakerU
February 26th, 2010, 03:14 PM
So here is the update. Got all of the editing done last night. One update on that is that up until last night, I wasn't having any real issues. Just an occasional crash or hangup, but I have grown accustomed to that now. However, starting last night, all of the sudden, I could not use transitions! :mad: PE8 crashes immediately when I click the Transitions icon under the Edit tab. I re-booted, re-started, shut down and re-started, etc. Nothing helped, immediate crash every time. I thought my project was trashed because I had a consistent transition I was applying, and it would all of the sudden stop being used. I was able to get around the cras by copying the trasition from prior spots on thetimeline, so I was able to finish te project at least. I will have to go back and see if the patch fixed it and do some more investigation, but I finished.

I saved the file as an AVI this time, and had more success in doing so. It saved on the first try, so when I got up this morning, I had the new file to work with for the next step - adding the other files, menus, chapters, etc and burn that sucker to DVD.

So, with renewed optimism, I did all of that and hit the burn button. After rendering and encoding, same result. It hangs immediately as it goes into burn mode without ever spinning the disc.

So I took your advice and tried a different menu template. I applied a new main menu (forgot to apply it to the sub-menus somehow) and tried again. Voila! It burned. It used the new main menu and the old sub-menu though, so I thought that was strange. Anyway, I guess that means there is something wrong with that particular template? It's the Movie Reel template in the Movie Genre list.

Unforunately, my entire movie was built around that template, including using the graphics to create a DVD case and DVD label. :mad: I am trying another template that will at least be remotely similar now, but I am extremely disappointed that the template is causing the issue. I guess the lesson here is that I should test burn the DVD before I go all hog wild on the label and case next time. That's kind of crappy though, it was good to have that template as a common theme in my head for all I was doing as I was creating this masterpiece of mine... :rolleyes:

I'm going to hopefully get a burned disc and watch it on a player, then I can hopefully put this one to rest for now.

ATR
February 26th, 2010, 03:35 PM
BoilermakerU


Voila! It burned


I do not want to appear "Nero" like, but that was music to my ears.

It used the new main menu and the old sub-menu though, so I thought that was strange.

I am not quite sure what you meant by that....are you saying that it took the main menu from the newly selected DVD Template set and the scene menu from the previous problematic DVD Template set OR something else?

Just so I keep things organized...
the new was what DVD Template?
the old was the Movie Reel

I will take a look at the Movie Reel DVD Template design to see if I can pin point any pitfalls there other than relative resource consumption.

The mini test runs (including menus) are definitely the way to go present and future.

But, sounding better to good to great.

ATR

BoilermakerU
February 27th, 2010, 11:27 AM
...I am not quite sure what you meant by that....are you saying that it took the main menu from the newly selected DVD Template set and the scene menu from the previous problematic DVD Template set OR something else?

Just so I keep things organized...
the new was what DVD Template?
the old was the Movie Reel

The new template that I used for success is old movie poster. The original template I was using and was having the issues with was news reel.

Yes, that's what happened. When I put the DVD into my DVD player in my home theater, the main menu came up using the new template (old movie poster), and when I went to the scenes menu, it came up using the old template (news reel).

At least I have a movie, and just in the nick of time. It's a gift for my father in law, his old home movies shot in 8mm film now edited down and put onto DVD for him to enjoy. Whew! That was a LOT of work!:o

You've been a great help through all of this. Too many threads I know, so I guess I need to write down all my lessons learned on this so I'm more successful going forward!

On the topic of the template, I found an older article from Chuck Engles on creating menu templates, but it was for version 2 I believe. Do you know of anything more recent? It also appeared in that article that Photoshop was required (full version) as opposed to Elements. Can menus be created with Elements, or do I need the full version? I can live with what comes with PE8 for now, but those will get old quickly, and as I learn to use both applications, I'll want top venture into that world too (this is your warning LOL)...

ATR
February 27th, 2010, 12:47 PM
BoilermakerU

That DVD Menu creation white paper for Premiere Elements 2 is very outdated although there is some basic information in it, but it can get you into trouble once you get beyond Premiere Elements 2.

If you want to create DVD menus from scratch, you need Photoshop because it has the Layer Set (Group) feature. And, you really do need Photoshop CS and up because those versions allow for Layer Sets within the Layer Set. Yet, you could get off a decent DVD Menu in Photoshop 7 with special considerations (that is Photoshop 7, not Photoshop Elements 7). But, you can alternatively modify the DVD Menus that came with your Premiere Elements by going into a DVD Menu .psd file in the Premiere Elements program files and editing it in Photoshop Elements (versions 3 and up).

I have promised Grindy a full write up (all you ever want to know thing) on the topic, but have gotten detoured. He must have a pile of IOUs from me on this matter.

Another important aspect about modifying existing menu, WORK FROM COPIES, not the original. If you get a chance, read some recent threads in this forum and DVD menu modification. If you cannot find them, I will point them out.

Also, for future references, when you are in a project, Create Menus, have already applied a DVD Menu, and decide you do not like it, press AutoPlay to clear that menu and then make another selection. Did you do that when you decided to use another menu recently??

Major congratulations on your success and continued success.

ATR

BoilermakerU
March 1st, 2010, 10:13 PM
OK, I've been thinking about this some more, and of course, have more questions.

First, I reviewed the OZPeter thread at Adobe on the proxy editing technique. I am going to try that, as I can see it being beneficial if I can find a way to batch convert everything to DV AVI so it doesn't have to render. Having said that, what project preset should be used with that proxy technique? Using that technique, the editing will be done using one format, the final product will use another. The setting will apply to either/both. We talk so much about the importance of that intial project setting, how can that technique possibly work if that setting is so important? It seems like it would work for one or the other, but not both?

I also wonder how you would mix formats. I ahve video in DV AVI from my old camera, as well as AVCHD from the new camera. It should be out of the ordinary or unreasonable to think someone would want to use multiple types of video in a project. It seems to me that my old ULead product didn't care so much, it really only mattered on output. What does that setting really do anyway? Why is it so critical, or is it just used as an excuse when there are so many real issues with the product?

If it's that critical, then I think Adobe has made a crucial mistake in the design of their product. It's like telling me I have to decide which chain of gas stations I plan to use on a cross-country journey, and I can't use gas from any other once I leave my garage. It's absurd in my opinion.

But hey, if we are truly forced to live with it, then fully understanding what it does and why would be of great help. ALl I can seem to find is generic statements that say "do it". That doesn't cut it for me, so if anyone can provide a logical, reasonable explanation, I'd appreciate it.

Meanwhile, the experimentation continues....

ATR
March 1st, 2010, 11:12 PM
BoilermakerU

Have your read my step by step try out of the Ozpeter method in post #72 of Panther30's very extensive thread?
http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51145&page=8

I will be back tomorrow, pin pointing answers for your specific questions.

ATR

BoilermakerU
March 2nd, 2010, 11:07 PM
I hadn't seen your try of it, but I did experiment with it myself a little. It seems to work, but I'll have to try it from start to finish on a real project, and a large project. I have my doubts based on my experiences with PE8 so far. PE8 seems to be great at 5 minute test projects and uploading to YouTube. That doesn't do me any good for creating full length DVD's though.

The fact that a user has to jump through all these hoops, and often unkowingly, just underscores the poor quality in it's design (lack of features, etc) and implementation (buggy).

I am anxious to see the specifics as to why some of these hoops are necessary in the first place...

ATR
March 3rd, 2010, 10:25 AM
BoilermakerU

Just so we are updated together....from what you have written, you have installed the Premiere Elements 8.0.1 Update (Patch), but please summary the current status:
a. operating system, 32 or 64 bit
b. video card and version
c. installed and available RAM
d. total and free hard drive space
e. storage designation for Scratch Disks, videos, source media (free space there)
f. last time you did a computer clean up
g. did you install any new programs recently and/or did you uninstall any programs recently

Just adding this check list now to make sure that conditions have not changed along the way. More questions on your source media later.

ATR

BoilermakerU
March 3rd, 2010, 02:00 PM
… you have installed the Premiere Elements 8.0.1 Update (Patch)
Yes. I may re-install PE8 altogether, but I really don’t think it matters, patch or no patch.


a. operating system: 64 bit Windows 7

b. video card and version: ATI Radeon 4670 1GB DDR3 128 bit

c. installed and available RAM: 8GB installed, 3+ GB available when PE8 is running full bore and other apps running as well (for testing purposes, to illustrate I have the memory to handle it)

d. total and free hard drive space: 3 physical drives (internal), all SATA II
OS and Adobe (nothing else to speak of) - 60GB SSD, 34 GB free
Misc application (FreeHD for example), projects and source files – 1TB WD Black 7,200 32MB cache, 800GB free
Scratch disk - 1TB WD Black 7,200 32MB cache, 900GB + free
e. storage designation for Scratch Disks, videos, source media (free space there): answered above.
f. last time you did a computer clean up: The computer is a month old, and it’s been defragged. Not sure what else you define as clean up.
g. did you install any new programs recently and/or did you uninstall any programs recently: Windows updates weekly, and I’ve installed and un-installed several things such as FreeHD, ClipMate, etc (all to overcome the issues with PE8 oddly enough)

I really admire your perseverance, but if this product is SO sensitive to any little change in a computing environment, then it’s junk, as I have stated in a couple of other threads. I bought this PC just for this application and this hobby, so it’s not some 5 year old dog we’re talking about here. I even avoided nVidia video cards knowing that was an issue. People are going to install software. Other programs seem to handle that fine (Photoshop has run like a dream, no matter what).

I was using ULead 7 for many years with hardly any issues, and that PC went through HUNDREDS of changes between updates, installs, un-installs, new components, etc. Unfortunately, Corel bought them, and that product is now junk (although better than this as it turns out).

I know you’ve said you don’t work for Adobe and are just trying to help. I am just venting, because I think this product is crap. I hope PE7 was better than this. Maybe PE9 will be better than this. PE8 is a complete debacle and not worth a free download, let alone $80. Adobe should be ashamed and should be refunding every single customers’ money as far as I am concerned.

ATR
March 3rd, 2010, 08:13 PM
BoilermakerU

Let us roll up our sleeves on this one and get to work.

http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=15

You are ahead of the game with all your experience, so let us put that to good use to finish this project successfully.

ATR

ATR
March 3rd, 2010, 10:59 PM
Add on.....

If you have been uninstalling other programs, an uninstall and reinstall of Premiere Elements 8.0, followed by the 8.0.1 Update (patch) may be in order.

Let us put that all together into a systematic plan.

There is a parable in what follows, I think. If you go to a hospital emergency room and ask the people waiting for attention how they feel, I suspect the answer would be NOT GOOD. The people who frequent these forums do not come to say hello and how are you. They come because they have issues with their software. There are no forums that I know of for people who want to report that their software is working. In the case of Premiere Elements 8, there are people who have the program up and running and productive and with far less computer resources than what you report that you have. So we need to find the answer if you have the time and patience; I know you have the experience.

Enough said.

Think it over.

ATR

ATR
March 4th, 2010, 10:16 AM
BoilermakerU

Good morning.

You may already have been there and done that, but it might be time for you to take another look at the following Adobe TechNotes to see if a systematic work through of them might bring success to your project(s):

Troubleshoot system errors and freezes in Premiere Elements 8 (Windows)
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/514/cpsid_51427.html

Troubleshoot damaged projects (Adobe Premiere Elements 8)
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/515/cpsid_51552.html

ATR

BoilermakerU
March 4th, 2010, 09:54 PM
Let us roll up our sleeves on this one and get to work.

http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=15 (http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=15)


That takes me to the main Elements list of threads, not to any particular thread. Was that the intention?

...If you have been uninstalling other programs, an uninstall and reinstall of Premiere Elements 8.0, followed by the 8.0.1 Update (patch) may be in order....
Haven't tried that yet, I will probably get to that over the weekend. I've been busy the last couple of nights, and quite frankly, a bit burnt out on this at the moment.

...You may already have been there and done that, but it might be time for you to take another look at the following Adobe TechNotes to see if a systematic work through of them might bring success to your project(s)...
Yes, I already have been there and done that. That led me to the confirmation that the project itself is indeed toast. I can open other projects and start new ones, but not that one. I also opened it using Word, and that's where I discoverd the unclosed tags.

That doesn't explain the other issues I have in general (crashes, etc), so I really need to get to the root of those first. I imagine the crashes eventually ruin the project file, it's only a matter of time.

I also have seemed to notice that the more editing you do, the less stable the project becomes. I did another quick and dirty project to burn some unused footage to a DVD to give to someone else that wants it. It's from the nsame footage for the project I have been working on, just not relevant. There's probably 35-40 minutes of it that I put into the timeline, applied the same filters to, etc, then burned. Took me a very short amount of time, because I didn't do a ton of editing, just some filters.

Contrast that with the many weeks of editing on the other projects, and it's a whole different story. So I guess if you have all your ducks in a row from the outset and just don't touch the project too much, you'll have more success. Still don't think that should have to be the solution, but maybe it is. Maybe I need to go back 20 years to storyboarding on paper first...

I'll be back with more when I get a chance to re-install PE8 and that sort of thing...

ATR
March 5th, 2010, 10:42 AM
BoilermakerU

Looking forward to your results.

Right now you have about at least 3 threads which detail your situation. How about this?....

a. Next post (assumed follow up of your present situation), start a new thread. I will then post links to each of your current related threads in your new thread. Those other threads will not be deleted unless you want them to be. We will just continue the discussion in one consolidated new thread.

This way no one will miss any significant comments that you have made on your troubleshooting, reading from thread to thread.

What do you think?

ATR

BoilermakerU
March 5th, 2010, 11:52 AM
Ah, I just posted before I saw this. Sorry about that. The threads were originally intended to ask and have answered different questions, but they have indeed seemed to become one mess of a situation.

I'll try to summarize them all into a single new thread on the next post...

ATR
March 5th, 2010, 01:58 PM
BoilermakerU

Thanks.

Sometimes when issues beget other issues, we get a better perspective of the situation by putting them altogether. It may be that the key comment overlooked in one thread might unlock the door to explaining the happenings described in the other threads. Maybe....

ATR