PDA

View Full Version : Some advice on how to proceed please


pauld
January 29th, 2010, 09:15 AM
Hello fellow villagers;

I am doing an oral history project for my church and I need some advice on the best way to proceed. The project consists of videotaped interviews of members being compiled into a ~2 hour DVD chronicling the events of the church’s first 100 years. The individual interviews will be burned to DVD’s for distribution to the interviewee for a keepsake as well as review by the project team to determine the ‘best’ clips for the final product. The final product will be broken down into segments. Each segment will represent a facet of church history, the ministries, the people, the priests, etc…The approach I was planning to take:

1. Import each interview into its own album named according to the interviewee and date shot, ex. John Smith 2 2 2010 – This should make organization of clips much easier. I am expecting around 30 interviews of about an hour each.
2. Compile the clips according to the segments of the final product. I would have multiple projects, each project representing a segment of the final product. Once all of the segments are complete I would combine the projects into the final DVD. Each segment would be the start of a new chapter on the DVD. I have read elsewhere on this forum where I can use DV AVI files to accomplish this.

Is this a good approach to take? I am concerned about building a 2 hour video as one whole piece. My concerns are the sheer volume of the project. I would rather take it in steps, or small bites, instead of all at once. I think I would be easier to manage.

I am using Premiere Elements v8, a PC with dual drives and a dual core CPU.

I have my catalog set up on the secondary drive and will import my video and audio clips to the second drive. I will use the primary drive to store my project files.

Thank you in advance for any advice you may have.

ATR
January 29th, 2010, 11:16 AM
pauld

What is the source and format of the videotapes for the interviews? Are you capturing from a miniDV camcorder firewire into Premiere Elements 8? And, is your capture DV (standard or widescreen) or HDV? Some of the details below may need to be modified according to your response on that.

Working with a large project in small segments is a sound approach. In Premiere Elements 8, the route to DV AVI is in Share/Personal Computer/AVI, not in File Menu/Export/Movie as in earlier versions.

Your computer resources will be a concern, especially with Premiere Elements 8. Make sure that
(a) you are running the program with Background Rendering and AutoAnalyzer features disabled and use these features on a command basis when and if you need either.
(b) have directed the Scratch Disks to an external/secondary drive with enough space for the tasks (See Edit Menu/Preferences/Scratch Disks).
(c) besides the scratch files and stored video and photo assets, the projects and their files and folders should go to the external hard drive/secondary drive; but, the C: local drive, should have the Premiere Elements 8 program files. Be on guard not to move the source media for a given project once you have saved and closed that project. If you do, you will get into some nasty media reconnect issues for that project when you go to re-open that project. Read up on the benefits of the Project Archiver and its Archiver and Copy options (See File Menu/Project Archiver).
(d) you need to define just how much available RAM and free hard drive space you have for both primary and secondary drives. Make sure your computer virtual memory is optimized by the operating system or by your own settings. What is your computer operating system...32 or 64 bit, although Premiere Elements is a 32 bit application running in the 32 bit compatibility mode of a 64 bit system and thus has limitations of 32 bit. What is the clock speed of your dual core processor?
(e) the optimum duration for your Timeline content should not exceed 90 minutes for a DVD disc 4.7 GB/120 minutes...if the program has to labor to fit content to available DVD disc space, it lowers the bitrate which lessens the quality depending on how much it has to lower the bitrate for the fit....when you are in the program's burn dialog, make sure you check the values for Space Required and Bitrate (bitrate max is 8 and should be 8, but that is a longer story for another time, for now target for a bitrate of 8 as your model)
(f) if there are photos in the project, their pixel dimensions should not exceed 1000 x 750 pixels...photos oversized for the project preset are a major cause of project failures.

We can fine tune the details if need be. Remember, mini test runs before the grand project.

You seem to be on course.

Please do not hesitate to ask if you have further questions or need clarification on anything that I have written here.

ATR

pauld
January 29th, 2010, 01:37 PM
ATR, thanks for your response. Allow me to clarify some things:

My mistake, we are not “taping” the interviews. The interviews are being captured via standard DV to a HDSC card and then imported to the PC. Hope this is what you are asking for.

As for your other thoughts:

(a) Done

(b) Done

(c) I have read elsewhere, that a good setup is to have PRE and the project files on one drive and raw clips and the scratch disks on a separate drive. You seem to have a different view point. I am not questioning your knowledge, just asking for clarification/elaboration. My thought was that it would make better use of my two 500Gb drives.

Moving source media, yes, I have experienced the “nasty media reconnect issues” of which you speak in a practice run. This is one big reason I want to work out all of this logistic stuff before I start the interview process.

(d) Windows XP Pro 64bit (I think it is 64bit based on the RAM availability, not completely sure), 4Gig RAM (3.07~Gb available), Intel Core I7-860 Proc, 2.8 GHz, VOSTRO (317-2277), both hard drives are internal SATA (7200rpm) with ~500G free space. I will double check memory optimization and make sure the OS is doing it.

(e) I will keep all of this in mind and shoot for a 90 Min final product not 2hrs.

(f) Yes, there will be photos as well as narration and music. Do these effectively change anything? The music will most likely come from a CD of the church choir. For narration I was planning to have a narrator narrate on camera and then split out the video and audio using the audio track with still images.

I am still learning keyframing and doing Ken Burns Effect on my stills. I may have questions regarding that as well.

Thanks again for all your help.

ATR
January 29th, 2010, 03:33 PM
pauld

The interviews are being captured via standard DV to a HDSC card and then imported to the PC.
I do need clarification on that. What is the brand and model of the camera being used, the camera setting. And, what are the compression and file extension of the video on the Premiere Elements' Timeline? Are you saying that you are recording video with DV compression to a HDSC card? If so, what is the file extension used by the manufacturer? In the final analysis, are you putting DV AVI standard or widescreen on the Premiere Elements Timeline? Also, what Premiere Elements project preset (new project dialog) are you using and are you experiencing any problems with the Edit Mode Monitor displayed video?

I have read elsewhere, that a good setup is to have PRE and the project files on one drive and raw clips and the scratch disks on a separate drive.
What is the source of your information on this? The typical recommendation is Premiere Elements PROGRAM FILES on the defragmented C: local hard drive and other on a separate drive, all with adequate free hard drive space. This becomes critical when you are dealing with large projects. How is the RAM distributed between the two drives?

Windows XP Pro 64bit (I think it is 64bit based on the RAM availability, not completely sure), 4Gig RAM (3.07~G Windows XP Pro 64bit (I think it is 64bit based on the RAM availability, not completely sure), 4Gig RAM (3.07~Gb available),Intel Core I7-860 Proc, 2.8 GHz, VOSTRO (317-2277), both hard drives are internal SATA (7200rpm) with ~500G free space. I will double check memory optimization and make sure the OS is doing it. b available),Intel Core I7-860 Proc, 2.8 GHz, VOSTRO (317-2277), both hard drives are internal SATA (7200rpm) with ~500G free space. I will double check memory optimization and make sure the OS is doing it.
The 4 GB installed RAM with about 3 GB RAM available is typical of a 32 bit system. If it is, 32 bit supports a max 4 GB RAM installed. And, if you get in trouble with virtual memory level (fixed at 2 GB per process, 2 GB for OS), then you could look into the 3GB Switch which will give the process 3 GB per process and then only 1 GB to the OS.

Yes, there will be photos as well as narration and music. Do these effectively change anything?
Yes, especially if the photos are oversized for the project preset.

Based on the size of the project that you are intending and your other details, you are going to need to utilize your computer resources to the max. The recommendation and suggestions made have been offered to do that. If you find a workflow that works better for you, then go with it. As I always try to point out, you should be guided by suggestions and not ruled by them.

ATR

pauld
January 29th, 2010, 06:46 PM
ATR
Let me try to answer some of these questions.
The camera is a Canon VIXIA HG21. As for the camera
setting, I am not sure what setting you are referring to.
I know that we are shooting in SP mode(?) I do not have
the camera in front of me tonight to verify anything
else. My file extensions are .MTS and the Project
Settings: NTSC-DV-Standard 48KHz
As for problems with the edit mode monitor displayed video, no problems.
The video seems to be clear and fine. When I view in Full Screen
the quality degrades, but I have attributed that to my monitor.
When I burn to DVD the video looks great on a TV.

I have read in "Premiere Elements 8, the Missing Manual"
By Chris Grover (O'Reily Publishing)
From the PDF Version: Pg 387
"A good setup has Premiere and your project
file on one drive (probably the C: drive), and your raw
clips and the scratch disks (temporary files) on a separate
internal hard drive (a 500GB or 1TB drive)."
As far as memory distribution, I am not sure how to check.
I will have to research that and let you know.

32 bit 64 bit, I just am not sure. I will have to research how to
tell on that also.

I really do appreciate the recommendations and suggestions. As you
may be able to tell I am a novice taking on a professional project
and need all the help and advice I can get.
Thank you so much, I believe you have earned a special thank-you
in the credits.
PaulD

ATR
January 29th, 2010, 10:42 PM
pauld


You say

The camera is a Canon VIXIA HG21

The interviews are being captured via standard DV to a HDSC card and then imported to the PC.

I know that we are shooting in SP mode

My file extensions are .MTS and the Project
Settings: NTSC-DV-Standard 48KHz

Those details put me in a awkward position. There is a problem in all that, yet you say that you are getting good DVD-VIDEO results. My favorite saying is “Do not mess with a good thing.” However………..

(1) Your camcorder is recording AVCHD (video codec MPEG4 AVC/H.264 - that is not DV compression), using a process which Canon describes as using a Full HD CMOS Image Sensor and “Advanced DIGIC DV II Image Processor”. The camcorder records only HD and is not capable of recording SD. It is probably recording Full AVCHD 1920 x 1080 square pixels with a SP bitrate of 7 Mbps (megabits per second) which is at the lower range of the bitrate choices (about 5 to 24 Mbps). The lower the bitrate, the lower is the file size, the lower is the quality. Often you will see these AVCHD files with the file extension of .m2ts. You say that yours has a file extension of .mts. I noted that Canon Support mentions that the .mts might have to be renamed to .m2ts in order to get playback of the file and/or edit it in some video editing software. We will not get too far into the Audio. For now we will leave it at “it looks like Dolby Digital 2 channel”. Also, are your recording at 1080i30 or 1080p30? This AVCHD from your camcorder is very resource demanding, more so than HDV and SD. The two 500 GB hard drives sounds impressive, but that 3 GB available RAM does not. I am pretty sure that the Intel i7 processor is a quad core. The clock speed of 2.8 GHz typically should be 3, but that 2.8 might be optimum for the i7?? Bottom line: with the project that you describe you may find yourself forced to convert the AVCHD into a less resource demanding form, for example, instead of AVCHD 1920 x 1080, a MPEG2 1920 x 1080 using the Koyote Soft HD Converter and maybe including the method of Ozpeter. See thread at top of forum on editing AVCHD as well as my tryout of the Ozpeter procedure in post #72 in the following thread here http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51145&page=8


(2) In view of the above AVCHD concerns, I am not sure how you are getting away with using the Premiere Elements project preset (new project dialog) = NTSC DV Standard. That project preset should represent the properties of the video that is being imported for edit. If you are really importing 1080i30 (AVCHD 1920 x 1080 @30 interlaced frames per second or even 1920 x 1080 @ 30 progressive frames per second for that matter), then that project preset should be NTSC AVCHD FULL HD1080i30. Think of that project preset as a template from which to edit in the Edit Mode Monitor. That project preset will determine the set of DVD Menu Templates that will be available when you get to Create Menus, BUT it does not prohibit you from selecting another type for export, like Share/Disc/Disc DVD with the NTSC Standard. But, keep in mind that you started out with a resolution of 1920 x 1080 16:9 and will end up with 720 x 480 (4:3). Did you ever consider Share/Disc/Disc DVD with preset of NTSC Widescreen 16:9).


(3) Now for the matter of where to locate the Premiere Elements project prel file when your choices are a primary and secondary drive. The project prel file is very small in comparison to that of the preview files, yet…. I stand by my original suggestion to put the project prel file on the secondary drive with the project’s other files and folders. The goal is to leave as much resources on the drive with the available RAM, free hard drive space, and speed. But, that plan has merit in file management as well. There will come a time when you want to delete a project and all its files and folders. There is no one button that you push and that happens. If you have not planned ahead, you will need to go looking for the all those project components. So what you do is:
(a) In the new project dialog Save In:, save to a folder on the secondary drive specifically designated for that project. Then in the Premiere Elements workspace, Edit Menu/Preferences/Scratch Disks, set all the scratch disks = Same As Project. Then when it comes time to delete a project, you delete its folder.


Please review the above and correct me if I have misread anything in your description of your projects.

ATR
(BTW, if you see that you are recording at 1080 60i, that is 60 interlaced fields per second which would be equivalent to 30 interlaced frames per second. So without going into further details, consider 1080i30 the same as 1080 60i and vice versa)
(No credits are necessary or wanted. You are doing all the hard work. I am just the back seat driver.)


ATR

ATR
January 30th, 2010, 09:37 AM
pauld

Just a further thought....

I think that you mentioned that phase one of the project was to supply to the person interviewed a DVD-VIDEO of his/her interview for review purposes. If the only source content for that DVD-VIDEO is AVCHD 1920 x 1080 at 30 interlaced frames per second, then I would suggest:
(a) Premiere Elements project preset (new project dialog) = NTSC AVCHD Full 1080i30 and, when you got to Share, Share/Disc/Disc DVD with the preset of NTSC Widecreen.

However, when you get to put the interviews together with other video clips, photos, etc., then you will need to consider how to handle a possible "mixed Timeline" and look at the question of "What are my additional video clips, AVCHD, HDV, or SD (4:3 or 16:9), and what are the pixel dimensions of my photos. There are multiple, sometimes compromising, choices when dealing with at mixed Timeline. Without knowing them, I would speculate that:
(a) Premiere Elements project preset = NTSC DV Widescreen and in the workspace Edit Menu/Preferences/General with "Default Scale to Frame Size" unchecked so that you could do the scaling yourself.
(b) Premiere Elements project preset = NTSC AVCHD Full HD 1080i30 and in the workspace Edit Menu/Preferences/General with "Default Scale to Frame Size" unchecked so that you could do the scaling yourself.

Assuming that the only AVCHD 16:9 videos involved in the final product were coming from the interviews, did you intend to convert just the AVCHD interview raw footage to DV AVI (16:9) and then use the DV AVI (16:9) version of the interview in a new final version project Timeline? This new final version project would be:
(a) based on a project preset = NTSC Standard 4:3 based on other considerations or NTSC Widescreen 16:9
(b) heading for Share, DVD-VIDEO (4:3 based on other considerations or 16:9)?

If it is appropriate for your project, we could get into a discussion of dealing with Premiere Elements with mixed Timeline content.

ATR

pauld
February 2nd, 2010, 03:22 PM
ATR

It has taken me a couple of days of reading and re-reading your last post as well as other posts here in the village and at Adobe’s forum, but I think I understand what you are saying.

Yes, phase one is to take the interviews uncut and unedited and burn to DVD for keepsake/review. Now, if I do understand the next to the last paragraph of your last post, can I then convert the interview to DV AVI using PRE8 and then use that file to work on the final product? Is that a plausible solution to my problems? I will try this tonight and let you know what happens.

ATR
February 2nd, 2010, 04:27 PM
pauld

The benefits to be gained by converting the AVCHD to DV AVI (720 x 480) is based on the thought that
(a) you are heading for a DVD-VIDEO goal (frame size 720 x 480) anyway
and
(b) the other components of your Timeline will already be in that resolution range
(c) and you will avoid dealing with a mixed Timeline in a Premiere Elements project

Aside from the native AVCHD resolution, what is the typical resolution of the other components of the Timeline?

I will be looking forward to your results.

ATR

ATR
February 2nd, 2010, 04:30 PM
pauld

The benefits to be gained by converting the AVCHD to DV AVI (720 x 480) is based on the thought that
(a) you are heading for a DVD-VIDEO goal (frame size 720 x 480) anyway
and
(b) the other components of your Timeline will already be in that resolution range
and
(c) you will avoid dealing with a mixed Timeline in a Premiere Elements project

Aside from the native AVCHD resolution (1920 x 1080), what is the typical resolution of the other components of the Timeline?

I will be looking forward to your results.

ATR

pauld
February 3rd, 2010, 06:39 PM
Ok, this is what I have done.

Original video file from my Canon HG21
1440X1080i 12Mbps
project presets of Full HD1080i 30

Imported via media downloader 4 clips totaling ~1:20 of video. Placed the 4 clips on the scene line and created AVI file via Share > PC > AVI using NTSC Widescreen as my preset.

Created a second project with presets of DV Widescreen 48000Hz
Imported one AVI file from created previous project. As of now I have been able to edit that file in any manner I have yet chosen. No crashes no problems.

Now I have read the 'sticky' post at the top of this form regarding AVCHD files being difficult in PRE8. There seems to be much discussion regarding applying patches and using 3rd party software or freeware to convert files to MPEG2, etc...My question is why go through all of that if you can just convert to AVI and be done with it all? I am certain I am missing something. Is there an inherent problem with working with AVI that I have not found or do not know about? Is there a big benefit working with MPEG or other file types?

Thank you in advance for setting me straight.

ATR
February 3rd, 2010, 09:44 PM
pauld

We do need to talk about some details in your latest post.

Original video file from my Canon HG21
1440X1080i 12Mbps
project presets of Full HD1080i 30

Imported via media downloader 4 clips totaling ~1:20 of video. Placed the 4 clips on the scene line and created AVI file via Share > PC > AVI using NTSC Widescreen as my preset.

If you are shooting 1440 x 1080i30, why are you using the Premiere Elements project preset (new project) dialog = NTSC AVCHD Full HD1080i30?? That is 1920 x 1080.

Your source video of "1440 x 1080i 12 Mbps" means that you have AVCHD Non Full with a frame size of 1440 x 1080 (4:3) which when stretched via the HD anamorphic will display 1920 x 1080 16:9. So, the appropriate Premiere Elements project preset for that video would be:
NTSC AVCHD HD1080i30, not NTSC AVCHD Full HD1080i30 (which represents 1920 x 1080 16:9 square pixels).

My previous recollection was that your Canon was recording this video to a HDSC card. You said that you used the media downloader to import your video. Just how did you do that? I would have thought that you might have downloaded the video from the card to your hard drive and then brought it into Premiere Elements with Get Media/Files and Folders.

I would encourage you to work in the Timeline view rather than the Sceneline view. In the Timeline view, you have a better view of what is going on and thus have more control.

What format should AVCHD be converted to in order to lessen its great resource demands is a topic for another time. For now, the recommended way (as you have read) is to create a MPEG2 HD 1920 x 1080 or 1440 x 1080 with an appropriate HD converter. But, if you can take 1 hour plus of AVCHD Non Full 1440 x 1080 from your camcorder, bring it into Premiere Elements, edit it, and export it to DV AVI without problems in editing or exporting, then go with the workflow that works for you. I will work on a discussion of the matter for a later post.

ATR