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View Full Version : Premiere Elements 8 shows MULTIPLE FRAMES ON SAME CLIP AFTER RENDERING


egitelman@ieee.org
December 28th, 2009, 03:41 PM
I manually rendered clips on PRE8 on the time line. When it finished I found multiple frames from the same clip on the sceneline. The clips were from my Panasonic fz35. They were avchd lite m2ts files. Does anyone knows whether this is normal?

ATR
December 28th, 2009, 04:13 PM
egitelman

No, that is not normal.

What are you doing in the Sceneline? Timeline gives you more control since you can see what is going on better.

Nonetheless
a. Do you have the AutoAnalyzer feature disabled (See Elements Organizer and its Edit Menu/Preferences/AutoAnalzyer options.)?
b. Are you saying that before you hit the Enter Key on the computer main keyboard, you had dragged one video clip to spot 1 in the Filmstrip (Sceneline) and after you hit the Enter Key, there were then an image in spots 1 and 2 of the Filmstrip (Sceneline)? Was spot 2 a duplicate of 1 or was spot 1 the beginning of the original clip and spot 2 the end of the original clip?

I am heading over to my Premiere Elements 8 to look at the situation.

To be continued....

ATR

ATR
December 28th, 2009, 04:15 PM
Add on...

During the rendering process, did you see any progress bars on the screen saying anything about autoanalyzing? Or, did you just see the regular rendering dialog?

ATR

egitelman@ieee.org
December 28th, 2009, 07:57 PM
Auto rendering was disabled in the Elements Oranizer preferences. In
Elements organizer I had all my movie clips. I then clicked on edit videos asnd pre8 opened up. I set up a new project with video preset at hdv 720p/30fps in PRE.

I sent all the clips to the timeline and selected all of them. I then pressed enter and the analyzer display came up and showed the progress bar of the analyzer. I was on the timeline while the analyzer was doing its thing. I did not see anything strange during the operation of the analyzer when it was on the timeline When the analyzer fiinished I looked at the sceneline and it showed the multiple frames (all different of course) of the same clip

ATR
December 28th, 2009, 10:17 PM
egitelman

You did not have the AutoAnalyzer feature disabled in the Elements Organizer.

That AutoAnalyzer will do that to your video clips, that is, slip them and pile them into a stack. That is why I disabled immediately when I started using Premiere Elements 8.

Premiere Elements 8 is a a top row of tabs: Organize Edit Disc Menus Share. In the row below that is another set of tabs Get Media Media Instant Movie Organizer Project. Clip on Organizer to bring up Elements Organizer. In the Elements Organizer, go to its Edit Menu/Preferences/General and AutoAnalzyer options. Disable AutoAnalzyer. Then to get back to the Premiere Elements 8 Edit area, File Menu/Exit.

When you do the manual rendering of the Timeline by pressing the Enter Key of the computer main keyboard you should only see a Rendering Dialog with a progress bar for the Rendering, no AutoAnalyzer involved.

Please let me know if you have that worked out.

ATR

egitelman@ieee.org
December 29th, 2009, 07:18 PM
The autoanalyzer in Elements preferences was disabled. This was done a week or two ago when I was discussing crashes. I was very careful to make sure that this was disabled before I imported the videos into the organizer.

I looked at the sceneline again tonight and still found the multiple frames from the same clip. I then switched to the timeline and found red lines over it indicating that the rendering no longer existed.

ATR
December 29th, 2009, 08:30 PM
egitelman

If you have disabled AutoAnalyzer in the Elements Organizer, then try this either within the project that you are in OR make a copy (Save As) and work with it.

a. On the copy, right click the Timeline content and select Clear to remove all those split clips from the Timeline. Go to the Media Panel and remove any trace of that original video file from the Organizer as well as the Project View Media Area.

b. Re-import the video clip from its hard drive location. From the Media area, drag it to the Timeline. Render the Timeline by pressing the Enter Key of the computer main keyboard. Does your video stay in one piece or is it split into clips?

c. Save/Close/Reopen this project and determine the status of your rendering and the video on the Timeline. Are they the same as before the Save/Close?

c. In the above, we have worked within the project.prel in which the problem occurred, but we cleared away all traces of the split video and did our study with a re-import of the video. Depending on those results, you could try opening a new project.prel and using the same video as before to see if you can replicate the video/split clip issue within a new project.prel.

The details that you have presented do not represent a normal situation.

I will be watching for further results.

ATR

egitelman@ieee.org
December 30th, 2009, 01:46 PM
It worked properly after I followed your instructions. Although I had the autoanalyzer disabled I remembered that I manually ran the autoanalyzer on the clips in Elements Organizer before setting up a project in PRE. Sorry for the misinformation.

Is it possible to run the autoanalyzer after rendering to help identify flaws in the clips? Is it necessary to do rendering at all? I would want to have some help from the auatoanalyzer to identify problems such as blur, shake, brightness etc. What should the sequence be?

ATR
December 30th, 2009, 02:57 PM
egitelman

If you use the AutoAnalyzer or evoke its use through another feature that uses it, you are likely to run into split clips, one example Smart trim.

If you want the program's help in sorting out image quality matters, I would get that out of the way first. After you have finished editing, especially transitions, effects, titles, and non DV AVI content, you will need to render the Timeline in the Edit Mode to get the best possible preview of the end product (this step does not improve end product quality). Although you need to render the Timeline to get the best possible preview of the end product, you do not HAVE TO render the Timeline here, but, if there is a problem, this will be your window of opportunity to pick up the problem before you go through the encoding process.

As I have just written in another thread, there are several possible scenarios with regard to Render or Not To Render the Timeline.
a. Your Timeline in the Edit Mode Monitor may look fine without render, but the end product could look bad OR good.
b. Your Timeline in the Edit Mode Monitor may look bad without render, and the end product would look bad.
c. Your Timeline in the Edit Mode Monitor may look bad without render, look good after render, and the end product would look good.

A lot of variations, but the bottom line is that you do not know with any certainty what that end product might look like unless you render the Timeline in the Edit Mode to get the best possible preview of the end product.

Sounds like you are making progress. Keep up the good work, and please let me know if you have any further questions.

ATR

egitelman@ieee.org
December 30th, 2009, 03:48 PM
Thanks for the input. I am assuming that the best process for dealing with non-dvi clips in PRE is as follows:

1. Autoanalyze the clips in the organizer.
2. Set up a project with the clips that have been analyzed
3. Edit the clips with effects transitions, etc.
4. Render the edited clips on the timeline
5. Generate the movie

What would the process be if I converted the clips to avi?

Would the process for mpeg clips converted from m2ts clips before using Elements make life simpler or would I still have to use the process as listed in the above five steps?

ATR
December 30th, 2009, 04:19 PM
egitelman

Remember that DV AVI with the file extension of .avi is not necessarily the same as another file with an .avi file extension (.avi may have a compression other than DV).

When you bring into Premiere Elements DV AVI (wrapper AVI and compression DV) and do not edit, you would have a green line over the Timeline which indicates that you do not need to render the Timeline in the Edit Mode to get the best possible preview of the end product in the Edit Mode Monitor.

BUT, if you edit any part of that DV AVI on the Timeline, you will get a red line over that portion telling you that you need to render the Timeline in the Edit Mode to get the best possible preview of the end product in the Edit Mode Monitor.

As I said before, Timeline transitions, effects, titles, and non DV AVI content is expect to be accompanied by red line over Timeline, thus telling you that, to get the best possible preview of the end product, you will have to render the Timeline in the Edit Mode.

Reminder...if you have a Timeline with green and red line over specific content, you do not have to render the whole Timeline to render the red lined part. You position the tiny gray tabs of the WorkArea Bar so that they span the portion of the Timeline that you want to render. When you hit Enter, only the red lined portion will be rendered.

Unless there is a specific problem or need, import as is. If it imports well and handles well on the Premiere Elements Timeline, try to proceed accordingly with your steps.

Hope that helps. Please let me know how your project is progressing. I will go into more detail if need be.

ATR

egitelman@ieee.org
January 1st, 2010, 09:27 PM
Should I be converting m2ts files into mpeg or avi before importing into Pre8?

What is your opiniion of the process for dealing with non-dvi clips in PRE as shown below?
1. Autoanalyze the clips in the organizer.
2. Set up a project with the clips that have been analyzed
3. Edit the clips with effects transitions, etc.
4. Render the edited clips on the timeline
5. Generate the movie

ATR
January 1st, 2010, 11:38 PM
egitelman

If the .m2ts represents AVCHD Full, then you may have to use as your source media that .m2ts converted to MPEG-2 1920 x 1080 which has a file extension of .mpg. Then you would process that .mpg by your steps. If there is a problem with computer resources, many incorporate the conversion in the proxy method of Ozpeter to get the job done.

It seems that you are putting a lot of weight on the AutoAnalyzer feature. Have you found that there is a marked improvement in quality when you prep the video in the Organizer with it in contrast to you looking at the video and evaluating it visually?

If you can import .m2ts without problems, then just put that through your steps. I have imported small AVCHD clips with .m2ts file extensions and have exported them to DVD-VIDEO with no problems. But, they were small clips that made it through the process because my computer had just about enough resources to handle the unconverted matter.

But your plan sounds reasonable.

Looking forward to your results.

ATR

egitelman@ieee.org
January 2nd, 2010, 04:10 PM
The files are AVCHD lite -1280x720p/60fps. Should I use as is or convert? If I shoould convert then to what file extension?
?

ATR
January 2nd, 2010, 08:15 PM
egitelman

If my recollection is correct, you have AVCHD Lite 1280 x 720 @ 60 frames per second and with a file extension of .m2ts. Is that correct?

Do you have the HD Koyote Soft Converter installed on your computer at this time?

How do you intend to export the Premiere Elements end product?

Files for conversion with the HD Koyote Soft Converter require the file extension of .mts or .m2ts. You have that, so the Koyote Soft HD Converter can be used:
MPEG2
1280 x 720 16:9
59.94 frames per second
Video Bitrate 9000 Kbps or higher
Audio Bitrate 448
The output file will have an .mpg file extension.

Before we go further, how do you intend to export the Premiere Elements Timeline.

I am going to do a few quick experiments with your video sample that I think that I still have and will be back later. My recollection is go with the .m2ts and bring it to the Timeline as NTSC HDV HDV 720p30 and forget about what the Premiere Elements properties has to say about the frame rate which it was giving at 29.97 instead of 59.94. If you feel better about working otherwise, and seeing the 59.94 in the Premiere Elements properties for the video, then you are going to have to go the Koyote Soft HD Converter Route.

ATR

ATR
January 2nd, 2010, 10:06 PM
egitelman

Now for the results of my experiments...

I imported the photo that you posted recently into Premiere Elements 8.
Photo named: 20091018_120655.m2ts recorded as 1280 x 720 @60 frames per second with your Panasonic

1. Project Preset (new project dialog) = NTSC HDV HDV 720p30. In the workspace, Edit Menu/Preferences/General/ make sure that there is a check mark next to "Default Scale to Frame Size".
As discussed previously, this 60 frames per seconds video showed a 29.97 frames per second in the Premiere Elements 8 properties. Since the Interpret Footage feature (changing the 29.97 to 59.94 frames per second) created problems with the playback, the Interpret Footage feature was bypassed.

2. Under Edit/Preferences/General, for this case, I recommend Timeline Playback Auto Scroll = Page Scroll. Edit/Render the Timeline as indicated.

3.
(a) Share/Disc/Disc, using the preset NTSC_Widescreen_Dolby DVD which is at 30 frames per second gave excellent playback on TV via DVD player or on the computer using Windows Media Player or the GOM Player.
(b) Share/Personal Computer/MPEG, using the preset HD 720p30. YES, you can get an export at 60 frames per second without getting the "invalid message". The trick is to set the Profile = High and the Level = High. But, I thought that the video looked best at 30 frames per second. Here are the settings for this route:
Video Codec: Main Concept MPEG Video
Quality 4.04
TV Standard NTSC
Frame Width 1280
Frame Height 720
Frame Rate 29.97 drop frame or 59.94 (see comments above)
Field Order Progressive
Pixel Aspect Ratio Widescreen 16:9 (1.000)
Profile High
Level High
leave the rest as is for now.

You need to explore and experiment. But the above should give you some guidelines. If problems and as indicated, we could do the same with the .mpg version derived from the conversion performed with the Koyote Soft HD Converter.

Please keep me updated on your progress.

ATR

ATR
January 2nd, 2010, 10:07 PM
Add on.......

I have not yet done the Koyote Soft counterpart of this study using your video sample. I will hold off doing that until I learn what is happening on your side.

ATR

egitelman@ieee.org
January 3rd, 2010, 06:04 PM
Thanks for the process steps. What did you mena when you wrote Edit/Render timelime.

I am now ready to proceed with editing. I am going to Florida Tuesday so nothing will happen for a few days. If I run into trouble I will post a new reply.

ATR
January 3rd, 2010, 06:31 PM
egitelman

For all the considerations stated previously, those steps would be appropriate for whatever your source media.

However, for my own purposes, I would not include Autoanalyze in any of my workflow. I would go by what I see and not by what AutoAnalyze would sort out for me.

ATR

egitelman@ieee.org
January 3rd, 2010, 10:28 PM
What did you mean by the comment - Edit/Render the Timeline as indicated.

ATR
January 3rd, 2010, 10:50 PM
egitelman

That edit/render goes back to my recemt numerous descriptions of rendering the Timeline in the Edit Mode where I say that this type of rendering is for getting the best possible preview of the end product (does not improve quality). But, you are not "forced" to do this type rendering. But it is your windows of opportunity to get some certainty about how the end product will look. Some opt to take their chances and not render. This type of rendering can be very time consuming. That is why I included "edit/render".

Since several very recent threads outlined various scenarios in this "to render" and "not to render" business, I just left the mention here as edit/render.

ATR