Another Curly Question

[Little Nac]

Hi All,
I am writing this on bahalf of my Wife "Bubby Grub", as we both worked on the problem.
Firstly ATR an update on my Project. I finally finished it. This is the one of an old VHS Tape which had already been edited to another VHS Tape. I then brought it into PE7 with a Digital Converter, put it together and I always burn two discs, as I keep one safe as a back-up. Anyway, it worked great and I'm very pleased with the results. So thanks once again for all your help during the process. As I have said on many occasions, we have learnt so much from this Forum. We owe a lot to you Guys.
Anyway back to the question. This may be a little "long winded" - for that I apologize.
BG is re-doing a Project which originally she did in Pinnacle, but wasn't happy with the result. Now she is doing it in PE7. She is still using the original pics she scanned in, and it is a slide show of both of us from when we were babies up till we were married. The Project is around 1 hour long.
So about a quarter of the way through, she decided she wanted to insert a small section. She went past the end of the Project, so she could work on the sequence without interrupting the Project. The sequence was a Motion Background (around 12 secs. long) of buildings with moving water in front. On the Track above was a still shot of a Plane, which appears from the left off-screen and continues off-screen on the opposite side of the screen. Using keyframes, we were able to achieve the effect that the plane was taking off and climbing. It worked very well, and we were both very happy with it.
So now comes the problem. We grouped the two Tracks, copied it and then pasted it (using the Edit Menu and Paste) into the Timeline where we wanted it to go. Just after the spot where we wanted it, was some green screen of me introcuding the family etc. Now in this Project there are several Video Tracks and several Audio Tracks.
It inserted fine into the Timeline, but it moved several Tracks (not all or them) down some, making all the Tracks out of sinc.
We then undid the move. We tried it holding down the Alt. Key, the Ctrl. Key and none worked successfully. Each time some Tracks moved and some stayed still.
Finally after many tries and un-do's, we used the Paste Insert from the Edit Menu. This seemed to do the trick. (Or that's what we thought). At first all the tracks seemed to move in Sinc. and it appeared everything was good. So naturally we saved it. Seeing all was well (we thought), we went to the end of the Project to delete the workings. Even though the two Tracks were grouped, it had moved the Plane down the Track about an inch out of sinc with the background. When we tried to move it back, it wouldn't because it was still grouped. Ungrouping it did the trick. First question is why would this be? Not really important as we deleted it anyway, but just wondering.
The second question. On closer examination of the Project, we then found that after inserting the clips, further down the Track it had thrown out several of the Tracks. Now they are all out of sinc, and of course we had saved the Project thinking it was OK.
This is probably a silly question, but I'm thinking maybe we are doing something wrong, or maybe there is a simple explaination to why this happens.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
We will both be away for two weeks as from tomorrow, and unfortunately won't have access to a computer during this time. So if I don't answer in the interum, my apologies.
Thanks once again for all the help. Sorry this is so long-winded.
Talk soon. :cool:

[ATR]

Little Nac and Bubby Grub,

This is to let you know that I have read through your questions and looking into your observations to see if I can come up with the explanations that you asked for.

Have a safe and good trip.

ATR

[Little Nac]

Hi all,
We're back!! Sorry about that!! You probably wish we had stayed away!!
Just wondering if you have had a chance to look at this problem. Bubby Grub is ready to insert some more sections into her Project later on today. She has fixed up the other s....ff up manually as this is the only way she could do it. If she inserts the new section, she will end up in the same mess especially with numerous tracks and key-framing involved.
So if there is any suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again. :confused:

[ATR]

Bubby Grub and Little Nac,

I am glad that you have returned from your trip, but were you really gone two weeks? I have your questions on the top of my to do list, but thought that I had more time before you got back from your trip.

I will try to get back to the topic in the next few days or sooner.

I am preparing for my epic Creating DVD Template Menu for Premiere Elements, including every last detail that I can think of to put that subject to rest for good (in my dreams?).

Proceed with caution with your current project until further notice. To return to this thread hopefully by tomorrow.

ATR

[ATR]

Little Nac

Here goes the first try at these questions...

1. After you created your effect on the section of the Timeline apart from the main project there, how did you group the two tracks that contributed to the effect?
a. highlighted both (lasso'd with Timeline Selection Tool) and then dragged them highlighted to the spot in the main Timeline where you wanted it (with or without holding down the Alt Key)
or
b. highlighted both (holding down the Shift Key), and then went to the Clip Menu, selected Group, then Copy Paste or Paste Into?
or
c. highlighted both (holding down the Shift Key), and then Copy Paste or Paste Into
or
something else

2. From what you wrote, clearly there was not enough open space on the Timeline to accommodate the effect at that location. So, a bit of pushing and shoving needed to take place.

Paste Insert, rather than Paste, was definitely the way to go, but you need to expect some pushing and shoving of for the fit which depends on how your Timeline content is constructed. There is no automatic compression done on the Timeline. Think of Paste as overlay, Paste In as insertion. But see link cited below for details.

Now why the "grouped" effect on the "side lines" went out of sync could depend on how you grouped those tracks.

If you have not already, read over this section of the Premiere Elements 7 Help PDF on this topic:
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/PremiereElements/7.0/WS09e4b3c48f3a79fc19b622510385d4355c-7f7f.html

Let us see if the factors above can explain what you appear to have observed with regard to track movement during the effect addition to an existing Timeline content.

ATR

[Little Nac]

Once again thank you for your help.
I will try to explain exactly what we did.

1. We highlighted the effect using the Lasso Tool, and then right clicked and selected "Group".
2. We placed the CTI exactly between the clips where we wanted the effect to be inserted.
3. Then we selected Copy > Paste.
This did not move ALL the tracks down in sequence only a few.
We then undid the move, and instead of Copy > Paste, we used Copy > Insert. This still did not move down ALL the tracks only a few.
The effect that was grouped and copied, after we hit Insert, we also noticed that even though the effect was still grouped, it shifted a couple of tracks in the group down some. Not all the tracks, only a couple. The only way to get these tracks back into sinc with the others, was to ungroup the effect, and move the tracks manually. Then it was OK.
Would it be more beneficial to group the effect, and export it as an AVI File, then bring it back in? The only trouble with this is, once done, you can't change it, and this method doesn't really solve the problem. It just seems to be a long way about doing something.
One question if you can answer it may help.
Say for example we have a dozen video tracks and let's say six audio tracks. How is it possible to group all these tracks with the lasso tool, or is there another way of grouping all tracks together, as they are virtually "off screen" and it seems impossible to slide the tracks up and down with the mouse as I am using the mouse to draw the lasso.
Thanks once again for the help.

My "Little Boss" said Thanks for all the help on the Panasonic. The information you supplied was very useful and helpful.
She really wants a "Still Camera" as she prefers to do the slide shows where I do the video. We have a Fuji Digital Camera we bought in Honolulu several years back and it is great, but a little big for her to handle, and it also has that many features you need to be a Rocket Scientist to use it!
We also have a Panasonic DV Camera which also takes slides, which I use, but she likes to be independent.
Anyway, ATR, thanks once again for the help, and thanks on her behalf.
Talk later. ;)

[ATR]

Little Nac,

I am about to call it a day and saw your thread.

And, I said to myself "I wonder how Little Nac is doing with the issues mentioned in this thread?"

So, when you get a chance, please update me on what I need to look into further on this matter.

Regards to Bubby Grub,

ATR

[Little Nac]

Hi ATR,
Firstly we finished up buying a Panasonic Digital DMC-TZ7. Thought we may as well have the updated model if even for future. Bubby Grub is wrapped!
As for the problem we are having re the clips shifting etc, my above Thread pretty much explains it all.
Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks once again. ;)