HDR and Photoshop Elements 6.0

[gfmucci]

I was experimenting with the Photomatix "Basic" (free) HDR program and learned something that will keep me from buying a stand alone HDR program unless I am really misunderstanding something.

The high dynamic range files created by all HDR software creates .HDR file types. Granted, I understand Elements does not create HDR files. But it doesn't even open them for editing or viewing.

This is a deal killer for me unles the full Photomatix program (or any standalone HDR program) has a conversion feature that the "Basic" program does not have. I still want to be able to open, organize, and tweak all my photos, whether HDR, jpg, raw or whatever files in Elements.

What am I missing?

[Benny Pedersen]

I was experimenting with the Photomatix "Basic" (free) HDR program and learned something that will keep my from buying a stand alone HDR program unless I am really misunderstanding something.

The high dynamic range files created by all HDR software creates .HDR file types. Granted, I understand Elements does not create HDR files. But it doesn't even open them for editing or viewing.

This is a deal killer for me unles the full Photomatix program (or any standalone HDR program) has a conversion feature that the "Basic" program does not have. I still want to be able to open, organize, and tweak all my photos, whether HDR, jpg, raw or whatever files in Elements.

What am I missing?

There is an option in the full Photomatix PRO, so you can skip the HDR file, and save the Tonnemapped result as JPG or TIF.
In my opinion, the 32 bit HDR file is more or less useless, so I just save as TIF, which
can later be opened in Elements, where you can work more on it...

The width height ratio is often distorted by most applications, so I suggest 240 dpi TIF files as source.

Benny,
PS: The tonemapping is the last step in the procces on 32 bit HDR.
Using the tonemapping on normal files is mis use of the tonemapping, but will often improve whatever image. An image in my goodies post (see signature below)
show how we can mis use the 16 bit Tonemapping plugin in Elements.

[gfmucci]

After some research this afternoon I learned a few new things:

1) The free Photomatix I was using does not save to jpeg. The tiff it saves to is a "floating point tiff" that Elements does not recognize - either that or I was doing something wrong. For these reasons, I eliminated that program. It was limited to combining only two photos anyway.

2) I discovered another free program, FDRTools. This program has many times the features of the basic Photomatix including both HDR and tone mapping with numerous adjustment options and capacity to merge many more than the two image limit of the mini-Photomatix. Plus, it allows user selectable automatic saves to the editor of your choice via a much wider variety of formats, including jpeg and tiff 8 and tiff 16, all of which Elements recognizes.

There are several books on the topic worth skimming through which I did this afternoon:

Complete Guide to High Dynamic Range Digital Photography (A Lark Photography Book) (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-Dynamic-Digital-Photography/dp/1600591965/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245033690&sr=1-1) by Ferrell McCollough

Mastering HDR Photography: Combining Technology and Artistry to Create High Dynamic Range Images (http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-HDR-Photography-Combining-Technology/dp/0817499997/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245033690&sr=1-2) by Michael Freeman

The HDRI Handbook: High Dynamic Range Imaging for Photographers and CG Artists +DVD (http://www.amazon.com/HDRI-Handbook-Dynamic-Imaging-Photographers/dp/1933952059/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245033690&sr=1-3) by Christian Bloch

...among others. These books provide a great overview of the pros and cons of the 6 or 7 HDR programs out there. All have trial versions. Some have scaled back free versions, such as FDR Tools - some scaled back less than others such as FDR Tools - with a very helpful online manual. FDR is definitely worth looking at and playing with. And it integrates well with Elements (not a "plug-in" but an automatic "save to" feature.)

[Benny Pedersen]

OOPS: The below post is some way, continued from another threed: http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?p=465015#post465015
Then:

After some research this afternoon I learned a few new things:

1) The free Photomatix I was using does not save to jpeg. The tiff it saves to is a "floating point tiff" that Elements does not recognize - either that or I was doing something wrong. For these reasons, I eliminated that program. It was limited to combining only two photos anyway.

2) I discovered another free program, FDRTools. This program has many times the features of the basic Photomatix including both HDR and tone mapping with numerous adjustment options and capacity to merge many more than the two image limit of the mini-Photomatix. Plus, it allows user selectable automatic saves to the editor of your choice via a much wider variety of formats, including jpeg and tiff 8 and tiff 16, all of which Elements recognizes.

There are several books on the topic worth skimming through which I did this afternoon:

Complete Guide to High Dynamic Range Digital Photography (A Lark Photography Book) (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-Dynamic-Digital-Photography/dp/1600591965/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245033690&sr=1-1) by Ferrell McCollough

Mastering HDR Photography: Combining Technology and Artistry to Create High Dynamic Range Images (http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-HDR-Photography-Combining-Technology/dp/0817499997/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245033690&sr=1-2) by Michael Freeman

The HDRI Handbook: High Dynamic Range Imaging for Photographers and CG Artists +DVD (http://www.amazon.com/HDRI-Handbook-Dynamic-Imaging-Photographers/dp/1933952059/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245033690&sr=1-3) by Christian Bloch

...among others. These books provide a great overview of the pros and cons of the 6 or 7 HDR programs out there. All have trial versions. Some have scaled back free versions, such as FDR Tools - some scaled back less than others such as FDR Tools - with a very helpful online manual. FDR is definitely worth looking at and playing with. And it integrates well with Elements (not a "plug-in" but an automatic "save to" feature.)

You asked, and then made your own conclusions.

The other software will not let you view or save
HDR photos, including toys PS-Elements.
FDR and all the other is definitely NOT worth looking at and playing with.

In Photomatix PRO, you can save the tonemapped result
as either TIF or JPG. Installing another program than PSCS or
Photomatix PRO would be waste of time and the same as installing a virus.

The books will recommend you free software, but
Photomatix Pro, don't have any competitors except PS CS.

I think, your problem is that you won't pay for the good programs.
Disqualification of the only one program, which is worth looking at, and
then reading three books written by newbees, is wast of time.

I realy don't have to write a book, 1000 pages; one
page is enough:

http://www.fineraw.com/elementsvillage/HDR2.jpg

Benny

[ljameso1]

I agree with Benny. PhotomatixPro is well worth the money. In fact I know 3 professional photographers who despite having CS have purchased and use photomatixpro for their hdrs as they feel does the best job out all the programs they have tried.

[Jeff Perry]

While I generally agree with Benny's feelings that Photomatix is the way to go, I disagree that the 32-bit HDR file is "more or less useless". In my opinion the HDR file is analogous to a RAW file, packed with all the original data from the compositing of the multiple exposures. Why would you discard it, or worse, "step on it" and save it as a TIFF? That seems like an unnecessary conversion. Especially since keeping the original HDR file allows you to move it into CS for processing if you want to.

Saving the HDR file will allow you to go back a re-process/re-tonemap the image with different settings without having to go to the trouble of recombining all the indivdual exposures.

Jeff

[MOOSE]

I agree with Jeff. I keep one folder for TIFFs and one for the HDRs, prior to tonemapping.
Al

[Benny Pedersen]

I agree with Jeff. I keep one folder for TIFFs and one for the HDRs, prior to tonemapping.
Al

:)

I wrote the below in my previous post, but forgot it here, so I think we all agree:

If we want to Tonemap the HDR image on the fly in Photomatix Pro, we don't need to save it as 32 bit, but it can be done, so the image can be opened later in either PSCS or Photomatix.


BTW. The 32 bit "Floating Point.TIF" file I used to construct the overview image is 253 MB in file size. When a project is finished, and if I don't think the file is needed in the future, then I prefer to delete it. But I keep the files while the photo is under construction.
I never delete my RAW or PSD files.

Benny,
PS. Sure, I agree with LindaJ, Jeff, and Al. (Thanks for replying)...

[Benny Pedersen]

While I generally agree with Benny's feelings that Photomatix is the way to go, I disagree that the 32-bit HDR file is "more or less useless". In my opinion the HDR file is analogous to a RAW file, packed with all the original data from the compositing of the multiple exposures. Why would you discard it, or worse, "step on it" and save it as a TIFF? That seems like an unnecessary conversion. Especially since keeping the original HDR file allows you to move it into CS for processing if you want to.

Saving the HDR file will allow you to go back a re-process/re-tonemap the image with different settings without having to go to the trouble of recombining all the indivdual exposures.

Jeff

Agree, but I also took into consideration that gfmucci wrote that he is using Elements, not CS.

Benny,
PS. See updated image (I don't think I can put much more information into it) :)

BTW. Also the result of tonemapping my photo using the compressor method by PhotomatixPro was very good, but only when I adjusted the sliders. Anyhow, the image is 100% accurate, but it only show any output using default settings...