System Memory problem - PE7/Vista

[Nick W]

Hi all!

I've got a problem involving Premiere Elements 7 running on Vista - and I'm fairly new to both, so I hope someone can bear with me and shed some light.

My problem is system memory, and seems a bit different to other posts I've read so I hope this isn't ground covered elsewhere...

I get the following warning immediately upon opening my project: "Adobe Premiere Elements is running very low on system memory. Please save your project and proceed with caution."

In addition to the message, the program runs very slowly, especially refreshing the screen after any changes or when scrolling. I generally don't have any other applications running - except possibly internet explorer.

I had hoped that by rendering most of the timeline I would avoid using so much memory, but it made no difference AND on many occasions when attempting to render I would get the error message "Error compiling movie - Out of memory". I got around this by trial and error - changing the work area that I was rendering and doing it in 3 sections. But it didn't help anyway...

Ok some details then... The project consists mainly of short video clips recorded with a basic digital stills camera. They're AVI files, mainly 640x480 (some are 320x240); between 10 and 90 secs each, and there's about 30 of them. Also, a handful of stills and just a few transitions - mostly just clips butted up end to end. The total length is about 30 mins, although I think the system memory warning started appearing even when I had only about 10 mins of material in the timeline.
The project is set to PAL output.

It's running on a Dell Inspiron Laptop with a Intel Core2 Duo 2.1GHz processor and 4GB of RAM, with Vista.
The disk is regularly defragged and has 116 GB free out of 285 GB HD space.
The paging file (virtual memory) is set to 3873 MB.

Thanks in advance to anyone who feels like commenting or helping out. Let me know if you need any further details of course!

best wishes,

Nick

[ATR]

Nick

Thanks for the details. I will be back later with comments. But, since you come with low memory messages, of the 4 GB installed RAM, how much of that is available.

Also, have you evaluated your computer system, letting Windows make the decisions with regard to Virtual Memory?

How do you have the Premiere Elements 7 scratch discs set? Are those scratch (preview files) all directed to the default location, that is, assumed My Documents/Adobe Folder/Premiere Elements (I am a Windows XP, not Vista person, so check it out). If those previews are directed to the hard drive location (same as project), your rendering of the Timeline is going to be piling up a lot of preview files that could be impacting computer/Premiere Elements performance.

Check out the following linked on optimizing Vista:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/415316?tstart=0

To be continued....

ATR

[Nick W]

Thanks ATR - I really appreciate the response!

Let's see if I can answer your questions.

Firstly - I have made no alterations to Vista's defaults (other than disabling the transparent window frames, as recommended in another post I read here). I will however check out the link in your post ATR - thanks for that.

Looking at the Performance tab in the Task Manager, I'm confused by conflicting figures - it says:

Physical Memory (MB)
Total 3573
Cached 2319
Free 61

Now, 2319 + 61 doesn't = 3573 so I don't know where the rest is. Also at the bottom of the window it says Physical Memory 40%.

Obviously if I've only got 61 MB of working memory (with just IE and Windows Help open) then I guess that's the problem! But I don't know if I'm interpreting the figures correctly.

I've looked at the Processes tab and can't see any unexpected processes gobbling up memory - by far the largest is IE with 238 MB.

The paging file size is 3873.

As for the preview files; yes - they are directed to subfolders in the Premiere Elements folder where the project files are. Should I put them in a different folder?

However, maybe I should point out that the memory problem existed before I attempted to render any of the timeline - the creation of the preview files doesn't appear to have affected performance one way or the other.

So to summarize - I can't believe I've only got about 60MB of memory available, but if that's the case then I'm sorry - I've posted in the wrong forum!!

Next up I'm gonna look at that optimization link and see where it gets me. Maybe not tonight though - it's been a long day...

I'll be back

thanks again

Nick

[ATR]

Nick,

I am a Windows XP computer user and soon discovered that Task Manager Performance Tab is different for Vista (including values in MB) and XP (including values in KB).

Given:
1. There is 4 GB RAM installed on your laptop with a Vista operating system.
2. You have set your Virtual Memory so that your page file = 3873 MB
2. Your Vista’s Task Manager’s Performance Tab shows:
a. Physical Memory (MB)
Total = 3573
Cached = 2319
Free = 61

Areas that would have been helpful, but not mentioned are:

Memory Bar graph vs Physical Memory Usage History
“If the memory bar graph remains at a high mark close to the total amount of RAM in the system and the Physical Memory Usage History bar graph is flat-lined at the top of the graph, then chances are good that the system needs more RAM to operate more efficiently".

Under System, Page File
“....the first number indicates the total amount of physical and virtual memory currently in use, while the second number indicates the total amount of physical and virtual memory available on your computer.”

Here is my take on the values that were given by you:
Your page file number (assumed actually set in the Virtual Memory section) = 3873 MB represents the hard drive space that is used as memory when your RAM memory gets low.

When you go to the Vista Task Manager Performance/Physical Memory, you see:

Total = 3573 MB (3.5 GB).
You installed 4 GB, so the Total Physical Memory (3.5 GB RAM) value reflects that your computer starts out with only 3.5 GB RAM available, about 0.5 GB taken by the system. Do you have a shared video card?

Cached Entry = 2319 (MB) (2.3 GB)
This value tells you the amount of physical memory (RAM) used recently for your system resources. “This memory will remain in the cache in case the system resources are needed again, but it’s available should other operations need it.”

Free = 61 (MB) (0.06 GB) is physical memory that is not in current use or does not contain useful data.

Check out the following link on which I based my observations. But, I would not make any judgments (or panic) until you read it and fill in the values for the areas mentioned above as missing from your last post.
Vista
http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-6162525.html
Note in the above link the comment about the values not always adding up and attributing that to Vista “juggling memory”.

XP
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=185778



To be continued...

ATR

[ATR]

Add on...

I forgot to mention that I read that, even though you may have virtual memory utilization in low RAM situations, utilization of it is a slower process than the utilization of RAM.

ATR

[Nick W]

Thanks ATR;

yes - I should have mentioned the graphs, which showed about 1.6 GB on the bargraph and approx 40% in the history graph. These figures seem reasonably healthy, suggesting as they do that I have plenty of available memory (with minimal applications running).

This seemed to clash with the numbers given which indicated I had only 61 MB 'Free'.

This is backed up by the following: “....the first number indicates the total amount of physical and virtual memory currently in use, while the second number indicates the total amount of physical and virtual memory available on your computer.”
those numbers are: 1710M / 7343M.

The Techrepublic page you linked was reassuring, in that it suggests that it is not unusual for the Performance window to show 'Free' memory figures as low as 1MB.

So it seems that it's not actually a problem inherrently in my system at least - such as a memory leak from another application or whatever.

I figure it's time now to talk about how much memory seems to be used when Premiere is running.
So... When I look at these figures with my Premiere project open; things change but not unexpectedly. Memory usage increases to 64%, as shown in the figure at the bottom and in the Bargraph (2.23 GB) and the Usage History graph. Apparently still loads of memory to spare!

Next up I guess I should try those tweaks you linked previously - I'm surprised though that I should need to do so if I'm only using about 2.3 GB out of 4GB even with the project open...

Will let you know how I get on!

cheers,

Nick

PS - you asked if I had a 'shared' video card - I don't know quite what you mean, but assuming you're asking if I've installed an additional video card for Premiere to use exclusively the answer's no. I've added no additional hardware to the laptop.

[ATR]

Nick

Some video cards (the shared ones) take memory away from the available memory.

That Windows Vista Task Manager, Performance Tab, is an interesting tool for looking at possible memory issues. So, I am looking forward to the results of your additional analysis according to the guidelines presented in that link and elsewhere.

ATR

[jgrace]

I run PSE 7 on a Vista laptop by Dell with also 4 gbs of memory installed. I had a memory issue also, but with Adobe's help found out that the problem was another program running in the background, McAfee. The more memory installed on my machine the more Vista and McAfee demanded.

I had to go into service's under task manager and suspend some of the ones Dell installed when the laptop was sent or built. If you want I can get you a more detailed instructions on what we did. Reviews of McAfee all indicate that it slows down the machine and keeps on demanding more memory.

One of quick things we did was to increase the number of cache files from 6 (default) to 8 and increased, history and memory.

The service can be found in the msconfig utility. Just make sure you do not disable the "Flexnet Licensing Service". If you find that does not help you can go back into msconfig and select normal startup then restart. this will put everything back to the way it before.

There are two security systems that do not have the kind of impact like McAfee. ZoneAlarm Internet Security 2009 and Kaspersky Internet Security 2009. I changed to ZoneAlarm and don't have the problems like before.

Hope this is some help. Jon

[ATR]

jgrace

Thank you for the valuable contribution to this thread.

Nick did report
I've looked at the Processes tab and can't see any unexpected processes gobbling up memory - by far the largest is IE with 238 MB.
so it will be interesting to see what that is all about after Nick takes a second look as per your experience.

To be continued....

ATR

[Nick W]

Hi guys - thanks again for the responses; sorry I've been quiet -I've been rather tied up.

Just to say I'll be back to this thread within 24 hours...

Nick

[ATR]

Nick

We will be watching for your progress.

ATR

[Nick W]

Hi guys,

well here is the news...

Thanks Jon (jgrace) for your input - I too had McAfee installed on my laptop by Dell, but had already uninstalled it.

However your post made me think - I do have AVG Free running in the background as my anti-virus protection of choice.

Sadly I found that even with AVG disabled, the problem persists.

ATR, I have now complied with all the optimization tweaks suggested for Vista.

As a result, the performance tab in task manager shows a tiny decrease in memory usage, but I'm afraid this has not resulted in any improvement in the performance of Premiere.

I wonder if there's a setting somewhere that is limiting the amount of memory available to Premiere, despite the fact that there is memory to spare in the system as a whole?

best,

Nick

[ATR]

Nick

I could not get my hands on a more recent TechNote, so I settled for this one for now (Premiere Elements 3).

http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/333/333161.html

Take a look at sections 6 and 7
Disable nonessential applications that load during startup
and
Adjust the size of the virtual paging file

Have you followed those guidelines?

The thread got detoured to specifics of interpreting Performance Tab of the Task Manager, so I just want to back track to make sure that nothing has fallen through the cracks.

To be continued...

ATR

[Nick W]

Hi again,

sorry I've been away. Thanks for your last suggestion...

I've read the technote and tried disabling all but the essential startup items, and doubled the size of the paging file.

No improvement I'm afraid!

I know we went a bit off topic before, but I guess it was important to establish how much memory is available to Premiere in this context. There seems to be loads so I'm still at a total loss!

thanks for your help thus far...

Nick

[ATR]

Nick

I will re-read the whole thread and see where we are.

Hope to get back to you tonight or tomorrow morning.

ATR

[cjcarsten]

This is exactly the same problem I have been having!! I am completely overwhelmed by the all of the above, and feel like I am reading Greek, but I will plug along and try to see why I am also getting the same message.

I am saving all of my files to my external drive. Maybe I also have too many things trying to run at the same time. I have a Dell also. Glad to hear someone else has the same issue and can maybe help solve. I am running on XP with PE7.

[ATR]

cjcarsten

Are you multitasking when you are running Premiere Elements?

How much installed as well as available RAM does your computer have?

How much total and free Local Drive (C:) hard drive space does your computer have?

How do you have the computer virtual memory set up...you set it or you are allowing Windows to make the decisions?

What is the wording of the message that you get and what are you doing in Premiere Elements when you get the message?

ATR

[cjcarsten]

I get the same message that started this thread. I may be multitasking some of the time, but usually. I did go to the above link and disabled some things...had NO idea what disabling. Do know that the very annoying Dell Media Direct that always pops up and I have no idea where it came from is no longing popping up....yeah!

I have 2,048 Tot. physical mem.
1.44 GB Available phys. mem
2.00 virtual mem.
1.96 available virtual mem.

My C: drive has total of 230 and 145 available.

I guess I am letting windows handle amount of whatever it is you asked b/c I can assure you I don't know enough at this point...give me time!!...I can't see the thread while I type.

I am storing most of my pre in the external drive that has 268GB free space.

I am willing to bet I have all kind of useless things running on the computer I don't need. :)

[cjcarsten]

I did change my virtual memory setting (googled to learn to do this), so I will see how that works. It was set rather small. Learning more every day!!!

[ATR]

cjcarsten

Do you have the Adobe guidelines for setting up the Virtual Memory for Premiere Elements? If not, I will post it.

ATR

[ATR]

cjcarsten

See
7. Adjust the size of the virtual memory paging file.
in the following link....
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/402/kb402542.html

It has been my experience
1. First, let Windows make the memory decisions (set for that)
2. Then compare the results with results when you setting the virtual memory paging file according to the AdobeTech Note.
3. Go with the better of the two based on overall computer performance.

ATR

[cjcarsten]

I am assuming the virtual memory guidlines are in the link to adobe in the above note? If this is not what you are refering to, please let me know. I have sent the link to the guy that built my laptop, so he can help me further if needed. Thanks as always for all of the help!!

[ATR]

cjcarsten

In the link provided, you need to go to the section that I have pointed to in the head of my post:

Section 7. Named "Adjust the size of the virtual memory paging file".

Any problems, please let me know. I have been there and done that.

ATR

[ATR]

Add on....

Although the AdobeTech Note says Premiere Elements 4, should be the same for Premiere Elements 7.

ATR

[cjcarsten]

I am working on a laptop that does not have 7200 rotational speed, only 5400. Do you think this could be the source of my problem?

[ATR]

cjcarsten

First let us work on the memory angle (increased RAM and/or optimization of the virtual memory page file) and see where that takes us. (Of course, including a Spring/Summer cleanup of the computer.)
http://www.microsoft.com/atwork/maintenance/speed.aspx
http://windows.about.com/od/maintainandfix/f/windowshardware.htm
http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/116094/computers/ways_to_improve_computer_performance__pc_speed.htm l

I have seen varying reports about the idea of drive higher rpm meaning higher drive performance. One report from two leading PC magazines claim that the 7200 rpm hard drive offered no significant speed advantage over a 5400 rpm drive. So, I would have to look into that to see if that falls out on the pro or con for that. It is my understanding that drive rotational speed in but one factor in drive speed. How does your PC guy stand on the matter of 7200 rpm vs 5400 rpm for your laptop?

ATR

[cjcarsten]

He's not really sure if the increased speed would make a difference. He really can't see any reason I am having trouble. He did tweek my laptop a little and I will change a few things I am doing....so cross my fingers and say a prayer.

[ATR]

cjcarsten

If you use the tools mentioned and rule in or out memory issues with them, followed by corrective actions if need be, you should be OK.

I will continue to watch for your progress and to wish you success.

ATR

[Nick W]

Hi guys,

it's me again. Sorry I keep disappearing but with a business and a family to run it can be hard to find troubleshooting time!

But I'm still keen to resolve this...

So - to quote my last post:

Hi again,

sorry I've been away. Thanks for your last suggestion...

I've read the technote and tried disabling all but the essential startup items, and doubled the size of the paging file.

No improvement I'm afraid!

I know we went a bit off topic before, but I guess it was important to establish how much memory is available to Premiere in this context. There seems to be loads so I'm still at a total loss!

thanks for your help thus far...

Nick
http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/images/misc/progress.gif

[Chuck Engels]

Nick, have you run a test on your memory?
It is possible that you have a bad stick that could be causing some problems. Considering the amount of RAM that Premiere Elements uses not many other programs will expose bad RAM when you have over 3GB installed. Here is some info on testing your RAM
http://www.ehow.com/how_2020294_test-ram-computer.html

How big is your project and how long can you work on it before getting the error?
If you restart your computer can you work on the project again for the same length of time without getting the error?

[ATR]

We have been down the road with most, if not all, of the check the memory routines. See the beginning Task Manager Performance Q&A.

But, it is always worth a second look.

Nick, let us know if there is anything that has not been addressed by you previously.

ATR

[ATR]

CE

When you get a chance, please check Nick's post that opened this thread (way back when) to view some details that you are asking about now.

ATR

[Nick W]

Hi ATR & CE!

well I'm into a whole other troubleshooting scenario now - coz I can't get memtest86 to run and check my memory. I don't know if it's compatible with Vista?

Anyway - to save you from reading the whole lot through, the summary is:

System memory error message appears as soon as project opens.

The project contains mainly short clips recorded with a stills camera, as well as a handful of stills. It's about 30 mins long - but I think the error message appeared first when it was only about 10 mins long. There are not many transitions or titles etc.

Other than memtest86+ which I can't get to work as yet, I have looked in detail at the task manager and can't actually see any sign of memory shortage/leakage.

I'll let you know how I get on with that memory test...

cheers

Nick

[ATR]

Nick,

Thanks for the update.

Ok some details then... The project consists mainly of short video clips recorded with a basic digital stills camera. They're AVI files, mainly 640x480 (some are 320x240); between 10 and 90 secs each, and there's about 30 of them. Also, a handful of stills and just a few transitions - mostly just clips butted up end to end. The total length is about 30 mins, although I think the system memory warning started appearing even when I had only about 10 mins of material in the timeline.
The project is set to PAL output.

Did you ever say what kind of .avi you are working with?

ATR

[Nick W]

Hi ATR,

sorry - I don't know what you mean by what kind of .avi?

Here are some details of one clip anyway by way of example:

dimensions: 640x480
data rate: 17006 kbps
total bitrate: 17094 kbps
frame rate: 30fps

audio bitrate@ 88kbps
type: video clip
attributes: A

...that's all i can find that may be relevant. Does that help?

n

[ATR]

Nick,

The native format of the Premiere Elements Timeline is DV AVI. Not all video with the file extension of .avi are DV AVI. AVI is considered the wrapper format which contains different compression, examples, DV AVI, MotionJPEG AVI, AVI MPEG4, etc.

From the properties of the video that you just posted, you definitely do not have DV AVI. What is the brand and model of the camera that was used to shoot these pictures? I will figure it out from there.

Thanks.

ATR

[Chuck Engels]

Hi Nick,
What about a new project? What about a project with just a dozen or so still images? Can you work with other projects without problems and only this one is having this issue?

[ATR]

Nick,

Suggested for moving forward on the basic issue of you getting low memory messages with your projects.....

1. Complete your Memtest 86 test. A lot of time has been spent on using the Vista Task Manager Performance to troubleshoot this issue, and you have reported that testing with this tool did not show a memory problem. Now, this Memtest86 was suggested by CE. So, let us get that out of the way before we detour to another focus...either it will lead us to a productive route or it will tell us nothing more than we already know from the Task Manager Performance.

2. Then I believe that we should start a new thread that will focus on the project itself. In this new project,
a. At onset record..available RAM, free hard drive space (C:drive). Virtual Memory either Vista controlled or customized by you according to Adobe recommendations (but, I want to see those values at the start). Also, record where the Scratch Discs are directed.
b. then, a progressive addition of jpeg photos to the Premiere Elements 7 Timeline, until (and if) you get the low memory message(s). Those jpeg photos should not be more than 1000 x 750 pixels. At this point, do not bother editing the photos, just keep adding until (and if) you get the low memory message.
c. then, repeat "b" but use DV AVI video clips.

Let us see if these guidelines will get the troubleshooting done done. I believe that the length of this thread is creating problems in that posts are requesting information long since posted. You recent summary was a step in the right direction.

To be continued....

ATR

[Nick W]

Sounds good to me ATR!

You'll just have to bear with me coz after two evenings I still haven't managed to run memtest86+ due to the fact that it requires booting from a CD or Flash drive and as my CD drive is kaput right now I'm going to have to learn how to create and use a bootable flash drive - which seems to be a very involved process!! Life is never simple...

Also - CE thanks for the input. I will be experimenting with new test projects once I've sorted memtest.

And ATR, the camera is a Canon IXUS30. If the problem is that the raw files are not in the native format - is there some way I can convert them?

I'm about to take delivery of a Panasonic HD camcorder which records in AVCHD so I hope that doesn't cause problems also - Elements is supposed to handle these formats is it not?

cheers for now

Nick

[ATR]

Nick,

I did some homework on your video format from the Canon IXUS30:
You have a choice of 640 x 480 or 320 x 240 (30 or 15 fps)
I believe that you are shooting: 640 x 480 at 30 fps
The video has a file extension of .avi. The format is MotionJPEG AVI. Sound is Mono (WAVE). It is definitely not DV AVI.
I have not devised a scenario to cause "low memory" messages with those video properties.

But, I am worried about your report that a Panasonic HD Camcorder (AVCHD) will be entering the mix soon. AVCHD makes great demands on system resources and, if you really do have a resource problem, that spells trouble even though Premiere Elements 7 now supports the AVCHD format.
Support means that it allows it to import if Premiere Elements System Requirements are met. Compare 640 x 480 or 320 x 240 with the soon to be (full) 1920 x 1080 or 1440 x 1080 with a HD anamorphic ratio to give 1920 x 1080.

As for the memtest86, take a look at the following link. It is a Windows Memory diagnostic from Microsoft that is supposed to be better than memtest86. Whichever, let us try to get that behind us.
http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp

We need to stay focused on a determined sequential course to success.

To be continued....

ATR

[Nick W]

Hiya,

yes I'm worried about that new camcorder too - actually there's been a delay with despatch so it may not be too late to cancel the order...

The thing is - why should I have a resource problem at all?

Anyway - back to our troubleshooting sequence. I got memtest86 to work and it revealed no errors so it would seem my memory checks out fine.

I'll try your new link too just to be on the safe side.

But right now I'm gonna create a new project and throw some stills onto the timeline to see what happens.

Back soon...

N

[Nick W]

Hi Guys,

ok I've got something like progress here...

I was having trouble with the settings dialogue upon trying to create a new project last night - so I decided to reinstall Premiere (which involved getting to another machine in order to transfer the installation DVD onto an external drive coz my Disc drive is kaput) hence the delay.

So tonight I created a couple of test projects. Firstly one containing just stills. I threw loads in there (7 mins on the timeline) and didn't suffer any ill effects before running out of easily accessible stills - I can go further but decided to try the other project containing avi clips first.

AVI Project: I'd put about 30 clips running to 25 mins into the timeline before hitting a problem.

No error message relating to memory appeared (although judging from the traces on the screen left behind if I moved a window - memory did seem low). The error message that did appear was when trying to add a further clip to the timeline. It said: "Generic Failure - This type of file is not supported, or the required codec is not installed".

(NB there was no actual difference in terms of format between the clips that the message described as 'not supported' and the ones that worked - so I think the content of the message is bogus)

This would appear (after a certain point) whenever I tried to add any new clip. I'm sure it's significant that this affected only and all clips that were not already on the timeline. The error did not appear when I tried to repeat a clip in the timeline that had already appeared.

Does this mean that - due to my clips not being in the native format - everything's being converted in software and this is eating up the memory? If so, isn't there a way of converting and storing the clips in the correct DV format?

This leads direct to my next question - with my new camcorder recording AVCHD, can this be converted to DV AVI for editing in Premiere? - (assuming - as you seem to imply ATR - that Premiere can't actually edit AVCHD without running out of steam even on a relatively powerful laptop.)

Sorry if that last question seems off-topic but I'm seriously thinking about cancelling my order on that Panasonic HD Camcorder and any answers may help my decision!

Thanks in advance!

Nick

[ATR]

Nick

Does this mean that - due to my clips not being in the native format - everything's being converted in software and this is eating up the memory? If so, isn't there a way of converting and storing the clips in the correct DV format?

Your Vista should have a Windows Movie Maker. Convert some or all of your clips to DV AVI with it. There is a write up in post #7 in the following thread on how to do that:
http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48313
Then bring them one by one to the Premiere Elements Timeline and see how far you get.

I would like you to go back to check the properties that you gave for a typical video from your Canon IXUS30. In Premiere Elements Project Media, right click the file there and select Properties. What does it say for:
File Size
Date Rate (also known as Bitrate). Previously you gave a value of 17006 kbps (kilobits per second).

On paper you appear to have resources that should be able to deal with basic editing of AVCHD which would be expected to be more demanding of resources than the the video with which you have been dealing. Unless someone has made you an offer that you cannot refuse for purchase of the AVCHD camcorder, it might be a good idea to delay the purchase until you know that you have video editing software (Premiere Elements or other) that can do the job.

Bundle of miscellaneous when you get to the AVCHD stage.
DV AVI is 720 x 480 30 fps NTSC compared to AVCHD which is 1920 x 1080 (16:9) 30 fps or 1440 x 1080 (4:3) 30 fps with a 16:9 anamorphic HD aspect ratio to give you the 1920 x 1080. Check out:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/390605?tstart=0
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/390600?tstart=0

To be continued....

ATR

[Chuck Engels]

Don't pay any attention to the message that comes from the Organizer, it is bogus.
You will still be able to add clips to the project and use them on the timeline.
After you get the message check the project media panel, you will see that the clip is there and you can continue on with your project without problems.

I don't use the PRE7 organizer because of this problem, it doesn't happen to everyone. I simply drag my clips from Windows Explorer directly into the project media panel and skip the organizer altogether ;)

[ATR]

Where does it say anything about Nick bringing in his media from the Organizer?

It sounded like he was using Get Media/File & Folders and using Project Media Panel for the media drag down to the Timeline.

Either way you should not be getting error messages related to the choice of these routes. It has been said that it "does not happen to everyone". I am one of those to whom it has not ever happened. But, since we are dotting our i's and crossing our t's, why not compare the routes to see if one is more error free than the other?

Right now I am looking forward to your results when you start with DV AVI media...either generated from conversion of your Canon video to DV AVI or from Internet downloads of DV AVI video.

To be continued....

ATR

[Chuck Engels]

ATR, this problem has been reported by dozens of users. When you Get Media, From Files and Folders in version 7 it opens the Organizer and places the clips there first. You then have to switch to the Project Media Panel. At the point the clips are added to the Organizer is when the exact same error occurs, it is false. The clips are still added, they are available to your project in the media panel and there really isn't a problem with anything other than the organizer.

There are a couple of possible reasons for this error. The most successfull solution is to delete the organizer file and/or simply create a new organizer file. It seems that this is a common occurance when the organizer gets corrupted. Creating a new organizer fixes the problem most of the time.

[ATR]

When you say to create a new Organizer, you mean create a new catalog?

You say this fix "works most of the time". What works the other times? I would like to see numbers on the frequency of occurence on this one.

Creating a new catalog for Premiere Elements is no big deal, but I would hold off on that for now.

Just my opinion.

ATR

[Chuck Engels]

Yes, sorry, create a new catalog. If this doesn't fix the problem there are methods for deleting organizer files and re-installing. I do not have those instructions memorized but there are threads at the Adobe forum and Muvipix that discuss the options and possible solutions. Still, the error is erroneous anyway. You will not be able to see a thumbnail in the organizer but the clip is fine and can still be used in the project and/or future projects.

[ATR]

Fortunately we can deal with the Organizer here too if it is indeed involved.

But, we do not know that is the case yet. So, we will have to wait for Nick's systematic focused progression through the troubleshooting in progress to find out.

ATR

[Nick W]

OK - serious progress now!

I converted all my clips into DV-AVI as suggested and haved created a project where I can add all of them into the timeline without any apparent problem. Twice as much material than I had before!

I haven't tried editing yet - I'd rather try and rescue some of my original work rather than starting from scratch - but I'm pretty confident that we've made a leap forward here...

I'm a bit confused by the whole Organizer vs Project Media panel thing, and I'm not sure how it factors in with my troubles. I used the Organizer to open the files but I didn't get an error message until I tried to drag too many clips into the timeline.

Now I have a question which you may have already answered but I want to be clear about this. It seems I ran out of memory because of the requirements of re-scaling the clips from a non-native format. Presumably effects, transitions and any other image manipulation all put a similar strain on system resources - so isn't there a way of rendering out your work as DV-AVI files which you can use to replace completed sections before your project becomes unwieldy? I thought that the scratch files created when you hit 'Render Work Area' were exactly for this purpose, but if so - why did I get no benefit from rendering when working with my original clips?

And another question (sorry!) - This AVCHD business - the idea is that I want to capture in HD for posterity (plus this Panny is supposed to have great optics etc for the money), but in the short term I'll only expect SD output of the results, and in fact I'll always want to be able to output an SD version to burn onto a DVD-V for family members. I guess I have two options, one being to convert all the rushes to DV prior to editing in that format (and then having to re-edit when I want to go HD in the future) - or I create the Project using the HD settings, and then downscale the final output in some way.

Can Premiere handle either course? Or would I need another application to convert the formats (as with the avi files I've been having trouble with).

Maybe that's another thread but I'm asking here coz it ties in with this whole format/memory thing....

thanks for all the input guys. Good to be moving forward!!

cheers

Nick

[ATR]

Nick

I converted all my clips into DV-AVI as suggested and have created a project where I can add all of them into the timeline without any apparent problem. Twice as much material than I had before!

I am absolutely thrilled by that news. Do not let anything distract you from your present course.

so isn't there a way of rendering out your work as DV-AVI files which you can use to replace completed sections before your project becomes unwieldy?

If it works for you, try creating a Premiere Elements project, adding your video clips until somewhere just before the "no go further" point. Highlight your Timeline, then File Menu/Export/Movie to generate a DV AVI. If your Premiere Elements project preset was PAL DV Widescreen, then your resulting DV AVI will be PAL DV AVI 16:9. OK, that was segment 1. For segment 2, open a new Premiere Elements project, and do the same thing. When you have finished generating your DV AVIs (saved to a folder on the hard drive), bring all your DV AVIs in a new Premiere Elements project for the final export to whatever.

I thought that the scratch files created when you hit 'Render Work Area' were exactly for this purpose, but if so - why did I get no benefit from rendering when working with my original clips?

Rendering the Timeline by pressing the Enter Key of the computer main keyboard creates temporary files so that you get a better preview of your end product. It does not impact quality..essentially a getting a better preview feature.

As for the Panasonic that will record AVCHD....does the Panasonic have Stereo or 5.1 channel sound?

Assuming a PAL system....
AVCHD with Stereo
Project Preset: Full HD 1080i25 or HD 1080i25

AVCHD with 5.1 channel sound
Project Preset: Full HD 1080i25 with 5.1 channel or HD 1080i25 with 5.1 channel

As a starter, I would bring it into Premiere Elements 7 with correct one of those above project presets, edit, then export Share/Disc/Disc to generate the DVD-VIDEO. See what that looks like. Remember, for PAL, you will be going from 1920 x 1080 (final) to 720 x 576.

I think that I posted some AVCHD related linked in a recent post in this thread.

Stay focused and continued (and greater) success.

ATR

[Nick W]

Thanks ATR - and just one more thing before I dash off to work - I forgot to provide you the properties of one of the avi clips from Premiere (whereas the properties I gave you before were from Windows Explorer)

Here you go:

image size: 640x480
pixel depth: 640
frame rate: 30
source audio: 11024KHz, 8 bit, mono
project audio: 48000KHz, 32 bit float, mono
average data rate: 1.7MB/s
pixel a/r: 1.0

I must say that 32bit floating point DSP for the audio seems a bit extravagant - and I'm a sound engineer!

cheers

N

[ATR]

Nick

Just what we need, a sound engineer.

I came across this link (looks like one for Adobe Premiere Pro), but I thought that you might find the part about conforming audio of interest.

http://www.et.byu.edu/tte/resources/Communications/Doug%20Wheeler%20tte%20378/premier/editing%20audio.pdf

I believe that the conforming process described in the link is similar to that taking place in Premiere Elements, namely....

Premiere Elements converts your audio (source audio) that you bring into the program) to project audio which is 32-bit floating point data...upconverting to it when lesser quality source audio is introduced. And, ends up with an audio sample rate of 48 kHz. That is what I believe those conformed audio files piling up on your hard drive in the Adobe Folder are all about (.pek and cfa).

Just some thoughts....

ATR

[Nick W]

Thanks for that ATR!

Interesting to learn that Premiere conforms the audio and writes conformed files to the hard drive. Presumably the cfa files are ConFormed Audio, and the pek files contain the graphical representation of the audio which allows you to view it in the timeline (these are often called "profile" or "PEaK" files in audio editing packages). Just a guess.

Doesn't Premiere "conform" the video in the same way when necessary? I would have thought that if it did so (for non DV-AVI sources), and wrote the conformed files to the hard drive, then I wouldn't have had the system memory issues I was having.

Having said that - despite my insisting that my troublesome project was straightforward, I am reminded now (as I rebuild it using DV clips) that there were a few clips that I was using FX on (just brightness and contrast) which may have been an extra drain on resources.

Still - I am now making progress - and although I don't expect miracles from Premiere, I am reassured that if I find myself running out of resources in future, I can render the complex passages.

I'm hoping to find some time in the wee small hours to get my rebuilt project to a point where I can continue editing it. Hopefully then I can come back with more positive news and we can wind up this thread!

best wishes

Nick

[Nick W]

One more thing - and it's kind of a hypothetical question at the moment...

It would seem that the problem I was having was caused by memory consumption due to non-native source files, and I've now gotten round it by converting them to DV-AVI before introducing them into PE.

However I'm just wondering if we haven't actually got to the root of the problem at all...

If you remember, we were thrown off course in the investigation, by the fact that - while the project was open and PE reporting low memory - the task manager displayed relatively low memory usage, and lots of memory free.

This suggests that there was memory available in the system but PE wasn't able to use it. Does this mean that Vista/Windows is inhibiting the amount of memory made available to Premiere?

Or does it just mean that Vista's task manager is severely flawed, and is unable to display actual memory usage?

I guess I'll have to keep working and see how I get on.