Camera Raw Update/ Lightroom 2.3/ PSE7 Interface

[Hedystafford]

I just updated PSE7 from ACR 4.5 to 5.3 (I think!)
Everything appears to have installed OK, but the ACR editing box still has the 4.5 label/ID on it, as has the plug in information (in the help menu). Does anyone know how I would know that it has installed correctly? I was hoping the update might help with my main ongoing problem:-

I am still unable to open a Raw file from Lightroom 2.3 into PSE7 (Photo - edit in - PhotoshopElementsEditor.exe) unless I convert it to a TIF file first. This means that every time I move between PSE7 and LR2 a new -edit, -edit-edit etc file is created.

I can open a raw file directly in PSE7, but then of course any edits aren't picked up by Lightroom.

I have found a very old thread from GlennK in 2005 which reports a similar problem - see Lightroom and Elements - Compatibility w/JPG
"even if you could edit in LR and then edit more in Elements, you still may want to go back and edit in Elements again. It appears that LR would make yet another copy of the current image with an "Edited-2" extension, giving you different versions of your edits in Elements. IMHO, if this is correct, your edited files would multiply."


I understand from a NAPP's RC Concepcion video "Lightroom 2 Photoshop Integration" released 9.9.08, that this used to happen between LR1 and CS3, but has now been modified so that raw files open directly - AS RAW FILES - in CS4, and are saved as Tif/PSD or whatever, only when you decide you've finished editing - AND, more importantly you are no longer left with a new copy everytime you move back and forth.

I have XMP set to auto write in the Catalog preferences, but have also tried writing/reading the metadata manually, and turning off the autowrite - neither of which help.

I would so appreciate a solution to this. I was really hoping not to have to pay £550 for Photoshop CS4 - most of which I don't need - but at present the workflow between PSE7 and LR2 is so cumbersome that I'm not seeing any alternative.

[Codebreaker]

1. If you installed the plug-in correctly then the ACR window will show the version being used.

In Windows Vista you have to copy the Camera Raw.8BI file from the download into the following folder....

C:\Program Files\Adobe\Photoshop Elements 7.0\Plug-Ins\File Formats

2. Yes, going from a LR RAW file to PSE7 will create a TIF (or PSD). This is reasonable since you should have processed your RAW file in LR and then do Edits in Photoshop.

If you are expecting to be able to open your RAW file from LR into the ACR window in Elements, then I can't see the value in this, since LR is far better.

If you want to do the Edits in PSE7 and then re-edit the TIF file from LR you should choose the option to Edit the Original when going from LR to PSE7

3. You can process a RAW file in PSE7 and have LR pick up the results if you choose the option in ACR to save the settings in a Sidecar XMP file. LR will read these and see your processing changes. Again, I'm not sure why you would want to process in Elements ACR instead of LR.

Elements ACR has far less capability than LR and you also run the risk of getting them out of sync.

4. Writing out XMP files from LR is ok if you want other programs to read the processing steps but having LR set to automatically do this does slow it down. It's quite easy to just save the XMP on demand.

In summary swapping RAW info between LR and Elements will work - although I still don't see why you need this. You just can't open a RAW file from LR straight into Elements ACR.

You can re-open a TIF file without creating another by using the Edit Original option.

Colin

[ATR]

Hedystafford

Many of us at Elements Village do browse all the forums here, looking to see if anyone needs help and if we can offer suggestions. Colin did and gave you expert advice in spite of the fact that you posted your Photoshop Elements question in the Premiere Elements Forum.

It would be to your advantage to post your Photoshop Elements questions in one of the other forums here, maybe the General or Advanced Forums. We will find you wherever you post, but you do not want to get your question possibily lost among dissimilar questions.

Thanks. Much success with your projects.

ATR

[Hedystafford]

ATR - Oops - was in such a hurry to get message off didn't realise I was in the wrong forum! Very grateful someone spotted it anyway!

[ATR]

Hedystafford

The Premiere Elements Forum is situated on the web page quite a distance apart from the other forums here, so I too am very happy Colin saw your post and answered since he is top level in topics such as yours and others (especially Photoshop Elements related ones).

Hope that someday we will have the opportunity to help you with some Photoshop Elements and Premiere Elements issues with which we have dealt.

Good luck with your projects

ATR

[Hedystafford]

Colin - apparently I posted in the wrong forum - so grateful you picked up my message.

1. Your tip re moving the file worked and I now have the updated ACR version!

2. Yes, I agree LR is superb for processing - but I do use filters and layers in PSE7 a lot, and often spend several sessions working on an image. I agree there is no reason to use PSE7 ACR - my main problem was with the multiplying of files, which just wasn't an issue with CS4 - and I got it in my head there was a connection.


Using the Edit Original option solves the problem - I thought I had already tried this but when saving the file in PSE7 I was obviously selecting something wrong in one of the dialog boxes that pop up. I think I may also have been mislead by the delay in rendering the changed image in LR - I was thinking LR hadn't picked up the changes. Anyway I've turned off the auto write to XMP as you suggest - hopefully that will help.


By the way is there any way to turn those dialog boxes off?


I can't tell you what a relief it is to have received such a prompt and authoritative reply. This has been perplexing me for about two weeks - I think I should have not tried to assess CS4 simultaneously with PSE7 - it's thrown up too many red herrings. I'm now happy to continue with PSE7 - and can spend some more time TAKING PHOTOS!


(http://www.frenchentree.com/french-property/91590/Normandy-Lower/Manche-50/Lake-Manor-House-Character)

[Codebreaker]

I'm not sure what Dialog Boxes you're refering to.

Colin

[Hedystafford]

I've played around more since your response and there is clearly a factor I'm overlooking.

Sometimes when I save/Ctrl S an image sent from LR in PSE7 it responds as if I'd tried to "Save As" ie I get 3 consecutive boxes:-
1. "Save as" box asking me for name of file I want to save. I use the existing name to avoid copies.
2. This file already exists - do you want to overwrite it - to which I say Yes - to avoid copies
3. Choose Tif options

But on other occasions it simply saves - no boxes - and the effects are immediately visible in LR.

I've tried varying different factors eg whether I'm in Grid or Loupe, Library or Develop, editing first in LR or not, types of edits I make in PSE7, ist or later time I've moved image to PSE7 - I've even duplicated actions and got a different result each time - can't find cause.

[Codebreaker]

Go into Elements Preferences in the Editor - Edit > Preferences and choose Saving Files.


Under File Saving Options the top drop down box ' On First Save' gives you some options. If you choose Save over Original you wont get the dialogs.

However, you need to be careful that you know what you are doing. The default (Ask is Orginal) is always a cautious approach that's saying 'are you really sure you want to overwrite the original.'


Colin

[Hedystafford]

That is excellent. Thanks again for your patience.

[Codebreaker]

No problem - have fun.

Colin