I'm gone

[dicklaxt]

This is to much for this old man.I wish all of you great success in your photo endeavors.

signing off dick

[Newtome]

Dick? What happened, I thought you were starting to get it. Take it slow, it does take time and you will get it. Don't give up so soon.
Elaine

[Simenon]

Don't know if the OP will see this or not, but here are some observations on my part about learning to use PSE.

First of all, I see so many newcomers to the Village just hop-skipping all over the place in their attempts to learn PS Elements. One day they are trying to put a fresh sky into a picture and the next day they have jumped over to something like how to color flowers in a black and white photo. All this before they have understood, let alone mastered, the basics of making decent selections using the various selection strategies, or understanding such foundational concepts as how to create and utilize adjustment layers and do basic masking. If you are one of those who has absolutely no prior photo editing experience, I urge you to face up to the following:

1) You are unlikely to come close to mastering Elements in less than a year's time. Elements is a complex program, and there is no getting around it. For most people it will demand intensive day in and day out practice in order to get a good handle on all the various tools, filters, menus, and so forth, and that is without considering many of the third party add-ons intended to enhance Elements' capabilities. If you do not foresee the need to undertake complex editing projects, consider a simpler program aimed at basic photo editing. There are several of them out there including a number of excellent freebies.

2) It is obvious from numerous posts that many Elements users are not especially technically oriented insofar as their computer operating system goes. If you don't have a decent comprehension of your Windows or Mac system, and don't understand the navigational paths necessary to find what you are looking for, expect your learning curve to be a little steeper.

3) If you are going to use the Organizer, that would be the first thing to get a handle on to my notion. Personally, I do not use it; there are probably as many or more Organizer issues posted in these pages than there are program, system, and editing problems. My conclusion - the Organizer is a big mess and not worth the bother. For those who don't care to build their own photo filing system, I understand many Elements users are putting the free Picasa editor\organizer to work for that purpose. But it's your choice. Investigate.

4) Concentrate on mastering the basic skills before attempting more complex editing projects. Yes, perhaps you will be doing boring elementary edits over and over for a time, but you need to hone those primary skills before moving on. You can't play a concerto until you understand scales and the music staff, and the interplay between your keyboard and the orchestra - that is to say between you and the program's interface

5) Get yourself a basic how-to tutorial that begins with simple projects and gradually moves on to more serious editing ventures. Many newcomers start off with The Missing Manual. That is a great book, but it should not be a first buy - it is not a graduated learning tutorial. In your early going do not buy tutorials aimed at experienced users. Read first the author's introduction, and learn who is his or her intended target audience.

6) If language comprehension is not your strong suit, if you have difficulty following written instructions, then you are likely to be hindered severely in mastering Elements because, say what you will, video tuts are probably not going to take you far enough in any sort of organized fashion. (Yes, I am aware the site offers a subscription service which offers hundreds of video tutorials that many subscribers do find helpful, but I suspect the Elements novice to be less well served). Furthermore, video tuts are hard to index, and they consume extensive amounts of storage space should you attempt to build a large library of them. And if expressing yourself well in writing does not come easily, it is also going to be more difficult to get people to come to your assistance. I see many, many postings requesting help here at the Village that are so poorly worded it is a wonder that anyone can comprehend them. A big vote of thanks should go to those dedicated old-timers who pitch in again and again and generally stick with a problem until it has been resolved.

Perhaps these remarks offend some, and if so, I apologize. But I will say it again - Photoshop Elements is a tough, tough program, and it requires intense dedication over a period of time while calling upon a certain degree of inherent user savvy. Perhaps there are a few exceptional individuals who have sat down to this program and a week later stood up and said to themselves, "Ok, been there, done that - what's next?" That wasn't me, I assure you. I first got into photo editing in my 72nd year and nearly two years later at 74 I am still going at it. I have gotten pretty good at the things I like to do with photos using Elements and a number of key add-on enhancements. Nonetheless, it is a rare day indeed that I don't pick up something new, and I suspect most experienced Elements users also find that to be the case. As in most complex endeavors, those who persist are the ones most likely to succeed.

~ Simenon

[SharLamb]

Wow Simenon! Tough love. I agree with almost all you said (I LOVE using the Organizer, however, since my main purpose for getting PSE was to do digital scrapping). I am amused when friends see the stuff I create, and want me to "give them a lesson." They don't get it that "a lesson" will do nothing for them. As you said, it takes daily use/practice, and then in a year you might feel somewhat competent! Nice summary.

[Hankw]

Well said, two + years for me. I can't spend as much time as I would like with Elements. those that joined this group about the same time I did are much further along than I am. I don't see this as a contest but as an enjoyable hobby. I bought a new Dslr, add that to the learning curve of everything else and there's enough to keep me occupied for awhile. If I knew it all in six months, then what? Now i am never bored for lack of interest in things to do.

[Wendy]

Must admit that when I first started I jumped around from one thing to another ... changing skies, adding plings, doing bits of restoration.

For me it was only when I settled down and started following tutorials that I learned that first you have to be able to do is use the tools ... only then do all the other parts start to fall into place.

It could be that Dick has now found the information that he needed ... and who knows he may well stop by again at some time in the future :)

Wendy

[frank abramonte]

Dick was offered help regarding his question, however, I don't think he had the patience to understand what it takes to answer a question posted by a newbie.
People new to Elements should be asked their level of knowledge about Elements, this would guide the contributors on just how to answer their questions.
1. Can they make a selection
2. Can they copy and paste
3. Create a layer
4. Use levels
5. Where the tools are
and other basic functions.
I see many step by step answers posted here with many not being acknowledged.

Note the advances BillandCat is having with his scanning project.
This is called perseverance.
http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47258&highlight=scans

Perhaps Dick will return once he realizes that with a little help he can begin to enjoy a satisfying hobby or pastime.

[nriley]

Dick, I am about ready to join you I am so frustated, I guess I am too oldd for this also.

[stevenm]

well said everyone. I started with ver 4 and for some reason dropped it until recently starting over with 7. I'm the kind of person that can't learn by following a book, I have to jump in and go for it.

Well, I jumped and am not regretting a bit of it even though I find I'm over my head at times. I figure if I taught myself to build computers back when 8088 cpu's were out I could maybe learn PSE.

MY point it, find what the best way to learn is for yourself and go for it. When you get stuck ask questions of your peers. By all means never feel a question is silly as your peers have gone the same way you have.

As one person said, learn the basics first, then gradually venture forward

Never give up

[Codebreaker]

From time to time I run classes in Photoshop - and this is no criticism of the OP - just a general comment - but too many people come along thinking they'll get a one click solution for everything. Those who stick through the first sessions begin to see the light and keep going.

I think this is a general trend in all walks of life - attentions spans are diminished due to the maddening rat race we live in. A race I'm just about to quit and go and sit on the sidelines.

Roll on retirement :)

Colin

[SharLamb]

...and sometimes you just have to make choices. I recently borrowed a friend's guitar to test the waters. I wanted to see if my desire to play the guitar ran deep enough to go thru the pain of learning the basics and faithfully practicing. I decided it didn't, and have ELECTED to not pursue that hobby. I'd rather pursue photography and PSE as well as a few other interests I have, where my motivation is strong. As to guitar....I WISH I could play, but not enough to do what it takes to play. My mother WISHES she had daily contact with me, her other children, and all her grandchildren. But she doesn't want it enough to learn how to do e-mail. We make our choices and live with the consequences.

[Wendy]

nriley ..

Don't give up ... you really are never too old to learn, and I pretty sure that you are not the oldest person here as we have people in their 60's, 70's and 80's :)

Just start with something simple and take it from there ... what would you like to do with an image ??

Wendy :)

[Newtome]

Such great insight into human nature everyone. I have been at this for over a year and a half and am still amazed every day at something new I have learned. My usual pattern in my life has been the challenge and determination to learn something new just to see if I could do it. Usually once I have learned it I lose interest and go on to something else. Elements still keeps me very much interested in learning something and there are so many aspects for its use that I can see myself going on with it for a very long time. It also has given me an insight into photography which I had very little interest before. A whole new world has been opened to me and, I too, am not a youngster.

I have a friend who keeps repeating that she would like to get into my head to know what I have already learned. I find myself getting pretty angry just to think that all of the hard work I have done to learn would be that easy to transfer.

Thank you everyone for your insights into the time and efforts you have gone through to learn this program. I thought that my year and a half of working at this that I should be an "expert" at this point, I am not.
Anyone new at this should not be put off by the time involved but should only assess what it is they want to do with the program and develop one skill at a time and enjoy the journey.

Elaine

[pasknucklehead]

Hey Dick, I'm sure you're sitting there shaking your heads and saying "what a bunch of young whippersnappers" But I know exactly where you're coming from. It is hard, but if you want it bad enough, you'll do it. If not, you won't. simple as that.
I'm not a young one myself, and the computer world is tough, but the love of photography just keeps me plugging along. Don't give up. If you want a laugh, check out half a dozen of my posts and see how frustrated we all can get. But don't give up, life's too short and the older you are, the shorter it is....The people here are beautiful and will help us old folks out as best they can, all we need to do is show them we want to learn even when we repeat our questions time and time again...I'm rooting for you, we'll learn together. I just turned 61, I'm not about to retire to the rocking chair...Darlene

[terrilady]

I am by no means young, I am in my young 50's and I have learned a great deal from the people here.
I have never worked in a program like this and I have picked up on many things here, you just have to study what is here and practice and if you still have a questions there is always someone here to usually help you figure it out.
I am soooo thankful that you all are here for suggestons and a helping hand.

[ljameso1]

There is something to be said for being too stubborn to know when to give up. It's how I've learned the most difficult skills including this program, which frankly I doubt I will ever exhaust the knowledge to be acquired. I'd say it took me a couple years and many online classes/tutorials to feel barely adequate. Now, 7 years in it's a great feeling to be able to answer questions from photo friends both on the forum and in photoclubs. Hang in there. It is worth it.

[Codebreaker]

My previous comments about people wanting quick fix solutions and not having patience to learn how to do things properly really comes from experience and its mostly the younger folk who chuck in the towel too quickly.

I'm retiring this year and while I will get out of the rat race of the office and all the glib marketing and politics, it promises to be a time when I'm busier than ever following activities I/we want rather than letting the day job always get in the way.

The problem I have is that there are just too many things that interest me and I have to be firm and try and stick to the one thing I really enjoy and that's Photography. Its a subject that you can never get to the end of.

But there's no sense in beating yourself up if you just can't get the hang of something. As long as your honest and have given your best, then fine - just move on to something else that you will enjoy.

Colin

[mel short]

Hello, everyone,om not sure if everyone remembers working in a darkroom, between processing and printing the film , and i have to admit, it took me a while to begin to understand the digital camera world, but i do have to say the digital darkroom is soo much more fun and not as nasty, does anyone ever stain their hands different colors with the chemicals. yes, Elements is hard at first, but if you keep working with it, things start turning around, and i have to admit, im totally digital now, and would never go back to film? (, but thats a different bird?well maybe large format b&w

[victry1]

Well, I'm sorry to see dick go after such a short stay. IMO, you're never too old to learn. As an "older" person (57) I probably learn somethings slower than my younger counterparts , but I bet there are things that I understand and grasp more quickly than they also. I was fortunate in that I went to ProCare at the Apple store for a year and they had a person there that does photography as a profession and also uses Photoshop. He introduced me to the basics and demonstrated what possibilites Elements can give you. But, I've had Elements for a year and a half and am just 'getting' things like layer masks and the like. And just getting a clue of how to think of something I might like to do and having an idea of how to accomplish it. But I have SO much more to go.

So "press on"......the rewards are worth it. Besides, the people here are all nice so it's fun to visit.;)

Besides, isn't it funny how we'll have patience with everyone else during their learning process, but think we should just 'get it' without any sort of learning curve.

Anything worthwhile does certainly take effort as most of us know.

[Simenon]

Another thought that has occurred to me is that Adobe itself helps to foster the notion that its Elements program is a very simple-to-use piece of business indeed. Below are some of the phrases I extracted from a recent Elements advert:

'easy-to-use product'
'incredible effects with a single stroke'
'from flawed to phenomenal in seconds'
'easy-to-use tools'
'Photoshop Elements walks you through key steps to make it easy to get the results you want fast'
'combines power and simplicity'

To further encourage this notion of 'easy to use', the current packaging is emblazoned with tinkerbell artwork, implying, I think, that the program is mere child's play to use.

Setting aside from consideration its so-so Organizer for Windows users who are deprived of the more respected Bridge offered to Mac users, Elements can be approached on two levels - as a simple photo editor with many one-click repair options for those seeking to make basic photo improvements, or as a more serious photo editor that allows very complicated photo repairs and enhancements providing one is willing and able to learn some advanced graphics techniques. Using Elements solely in the first sense begs the question: "Why purchase the relatively expensive Elements when there are any number of capable lower cost programs and even some well-respected equally capable freebies available?" And that is to say nothing of some of the decent basic photo editing software that comes with many digital cameras such as those from Canon and Olympus among others. If more serious photo editing is the goal, Elements is certainly worthy of consideration, but expect to encounter a somewhat precipitous learning curve as expressed by myself and others in this thread - but that should be a logical expectation, I think, though Adobe might also be a bit more straightforward in its advertising.

~ Simenon

[Chuck S.]

One thing I've always liked about Elements (and I've used versions 1 through 6) is its consistency, i.e., if you learn the basics of the program in one version, stepping up to a later version isn't too difficult at all. It's a bit like walking into your house and finding a few new pieces of furniture and the walls painted a different color (very dark gray in the case of PSE6, which wasn't the best of choices for those of us with advanced presbyopia...). Much of the layout and many of the tools are also very similar to what's found in full Photoshop, easing the transition for those who choose to move up.

Probably the same reason I've stuck with Canon since the film days; familiar controls, look and feel, etc. Yes, it's fun to learn new stuff, but it's also nice to feel comfortable and efficient with your camera and editing software.

[Joe_Kostoss]

Simenon, very well said! Photoshop is indeed a tough program. I am an Engineer by education and by trade. I recall a joke about someone asking very naively "Teach me to be an Engineer, and I don't care if it takes all day." If a beginner is willing to spend the money for the software, they also must be willing to buy some of the great teaching aids such as books and online memberships that are needed just to understand the basics.

I am also sorry to see Dick leave. When a person starts to admit that he or she is too old, then the thoughts take over and become a self fullfilling prophecy.

[ljameso1]

I think those of us who used to have a chemical darkroom have an advantage as some of the terms such as burning and dodging compute in our minds. I for one was so thrilled with how much easier those are as well as how easy to do composite images(as opposed to weeks of trial and error) that I was willing to put in the work to learn the program.

[Codebreaker]

the digital darkroom is soo much more fun and not as nasty, does anyone ever stain their hands different colors with the chemicals.

Well!!! I've just this minute finished giving a talk of Digital Photography at our local Adult Education centre and managed during the printing demonstration to get one of the pieces of paper the wrong side up in the printer. Interesting effect and the ink never dries.

So yes I managed to get the chemicals (inks) all over my hands!! Caused a laugh anyway :-)


Colin

[charlotteinkennesaw]

Simenon,

Wow you really so clarifiied everything about not giving up. Thank you for your perspective. I will never give up. I love photography and nothing good comes easy. I found the comments by the others here to be very helpful. sometimes you feel alone in your struggles but now I know I am sure not the only one.
Long live Elements! Hooray!

Cheers,

charlotte

[cats4jan]

Wow - I feel the OP's pain. I purchased PSE4 and after 6 months, "kicked it to the curb." Then I happened upon a book - "Digital Scrapbooking in Easy Steps."

Since the primary reason I bought Elements was to make greeting cards, this book seemed a good "fit" even if I never was interested in digi-scrapping. Turned out to be an excellent how to manual for learning to make background paper and word art - and along the way, a little "photoshop learning" crept in. LOL

Almost 3 years later and I'm still learning. Grabbed a copy of CS3 at Christmas time and renewed that "overwhelming frustration feeling" while trying to figure CS3 out. LOL

I'm still more a digi-scrapper/greeting card maker than a photo fixer - but I can find my way around the tools well enough to fix photos for my layouts.

Not so young, but still I managed to learn this confounding program. And, heck, it only took me 3 years of 10 hour days. :eek:

I have to totally agree with those who said - you really need a basic understanding of your computer's operating system to get good at this - especially to get good at digi-scrapping. I have digital photography, PSE and digi-scrapping to thank for making me much more computer literate.

[victry1]

Good call Simenon! Very well thought out and said. You are so on the money there.

[NLAlston]

When a person starts to admit that he or she is too old, then the thoughts take over and become a self fullfilling prophecy.

No greater truism has ever been spoken.

[Not4wood]

No greater truism has ever been spoken.

The problem with Joe's statement is that I've seen people give up for no apparent reason. Making excuses for not doing something because its too hard is a Polite way of backing out if something else is going on.

The Original Poster made a statement that he is leaving after a short time. He could have been just too frustrated in learning that the skills in Photography aren't learnt in a day. Didn't understand the methods of using the computer like what has been mentioned somewhere above. Or even figured out what he needed to do, was able to do it and left. No biggie....

I feel bad about it, but there is nothing you can do. You are all interjecting from your own perspective on excuses.

A long time ago, I had a friend who was bored very easily of things. He would gain an interest in something and when he realized that he had to spend more then 5 minutes in trying to learn it, he put it down and just turned his back on it and walked away. He didn't think there was anything wrong with this behavior and accepted it for what it was. Whats funny about this comment from me is that this friend was interested in joining a Fraternity a million years ago. So, we both joined he got bored and left and I stayed. I met someone that was involved in the girls House Plan and we have not only stayed together we've been married for almost 33 years. My friend? From what I hear, he had a great job but got bored and left it. He left it without another job, and has been running like he did as a kid with no anchors in his life. Looking for something better and the grass is always greener.

Life goes on!

[twoaussies]

Dick: I do hope you are reading all of these wonderful replies. No one is too old. I am 75 and hope to be doing fauxshop for ever. There are members in their 80s.
You havent listed where you live. If you do, perhaps there is an Elements user nearby who could give you one-on-one help. That helps immensely.
Dont give up. Jean

[Inspeqtor]

I just now checked dicklaxt's profile. He has not been back online since he posted this message. That is too bad. I do hope he returns to find all the wonderful replies people have posted for his benefit, and all other newbies. I am not a newbie here, but I still need help from time to time.

[Dot-tea]

Haven't been on here for awhile as I too was frustrated. Bought Photoshop Elements 6 for the first time and upset the screen is black and difficult to read, especially since I have Glaucoma. Took a class a year ago that was a college semester course which we crammed into 10 weeks. trying to take notes and use the mouse at same time doesn't work well. Bought the Missing Manual which was not much help and now have 100 Tricks and Tips book which is for Elements 7 and has tools I do not even have.

The few tutorials I have found online have helped as much as anything, but am still disappointed I can't do more. Will keep trying though, and hoping one day I will "get it".

[NLAlston]

No greater truism has ever been spoken.

When I entered the above, as a reply to Joe's statement, it was an agreement on its factual basis - and not as my stance on it being the OP's reasoning for divorcing himself from the program.

Though a lot of people stand on the premise that 'age' is the causative factor behind an inability to grasp something, it doesn't necessarily have to be the case with the OP. Though he did indeed mention that maybe he was too old for it - that could very well have been nothing more than just a humorous start to what he had authored in his post.

The truth of the matter is that Elements (just as with anything else) is not for everyone. I, personally, am having a bear of a time with some processes (within this program), but I have a 'stick-to-it' kind of nature, and will keep on plugging away at it until I get it. Maybe the OP felt that the learning expense was just too great for what he was looking to get out of it. We all have our needs & wants, and the degree level of one's effort, and involvement, will be equated to how great those needs, and wants are.

Maybe the OP will get re-interested, and come back. Or maybe he will find something else that suits his aims & desires more. Whatever the case, I really hope him the best.

[MT Stringer]

just now checked dicklaxt's profile. He has not been back online since he posted this message. That is too bad. I do hope he returns to find all the wonderful replies people have posted for his benefit, and all other newbies. I am not a newbie here, but I still need help from time to time.

I know where he lives. I'll give him a shout and see if he will come back.
Mike

[Not4wood]

I think one of the reasons why we all feel that this whole situation is distasteful is the plan fact is that we are all still here.

Nothing in life is easy, and Photography is especially one of those hard choices. I don't think any of us are real experts and the longer we do something, the more we need to find things out and want to learn more.
I have found in life: The more you know the more you know you don't know.

I don't think its age, due to the fact that I know a lot of people in there 80's who are still active and do things so age has no effect on this.

[ljameso1]

He's back!!! The OP has started a new thread citing this one as encouraging him to come back-tx for tracking him down Mike.
Dot-tea, if you are on a pc PSE7 has the ability to change the dark gray color to whatever color works best for your eyes. Seems adobe heard from a lot of people who have eye difficulties.

[Inspeqtor]

Linda,

Thanks for letting us know! That is good to hear!!!!!

[NLAlston]

He's back!!! The OP has started a new thread citing this one as encouraging him to come back-tx for tracking him down Mike.
Dot-tea, if you are on a pc PSE7 has the ability to change the dark gray color to whatever color works best for your eyes. Seems adobe heard from a lot of people who have eye difficulties.

That is great news.

[charlotteinkennesaw]

So glad he didn't give up. I know how frustrating learning something new is, but you just can't give up.

Cheers,

charlotte

[charlotteinkennesaw]

By the way, what does OP mean?:confused:

[frank abramonte]

Check Dick's surprising come back. I thought he wasn't able to get past the first click, and here he is with some nifty work.

http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47456

[Inspeqtor]

By the way, what does OP mean?:confused:


OP = Original Poster :)

[NLAlston]

By the way, what does OP mean?:confused:

Hi Charlotte.

'OP' stands for original poster. Don't feel bad about not knowing - because I just had someone clarify this to me, not very long ago :).

[Alberta]

I totally agree with it taking time to learn PhotoshopElements. You need to go slow and learn the basics about layers, etc. I have been working with this program for over a year and a half almost daily and can say that I marvel at the capabilities of this program and how "little" I know. I wish there was a school I could go to and take classess in each subject.

Buying a good book by one of the many great teachers out there is a very good way to start also.

[shorty]

I have used PSE for the past 4 years. I started with PSE3 then moved up to PSE6. Yes I did get frustrated at first - but mainly because I wanted to do everything at once.....improving color, tone, artistic effects and especially selective coloring with b&W. I realized I needed to to do a lot of reading and practicing the same skill over and over again to understand exactly how to achieve the effect I wanted. Over the past years - it has been a lot of trial & error and A LOT of going into forums and asking questions. The forum members are awesome when it comes to answering questions. I'm still learning.......that's what makes it so much fun!!!:D

[kimi_boo]

loved reading this thread. :)

Take Matt's layers course. It helped me learn the basics, I would still be stumbling around.

[Dot-tea]

He's back!!! The OP has started a new thread citing this one as encouraging him to come back-tx for tracking him down Mike.
Dot-tea, if you are on a pc PSE7 has the ability to change the dark gray color to whatever color works best for your eyes. Seems adobe heard from a lot of people who have eye difficulties.

I heard PSE7 has a slider to make the screen lighter, but that is also another big expense, so have hesitated to invest more when I am haven't mastered much yet. Thanks so much for tip though.