848x480

[toonbon]

I have an 848x480 video that I'd like to edit with Premier Elements. But I don't see any way to set up this format. I chose 720p, because that looked the closest, and then in the save-to-file advanced options I saw an option to change the frame size to 848x480 so I chose that. But the rendered video was a 16:9 window inside of an 848x480 window. The video in the 16:9 window was stretched horizontally and there were wide black bars on top and bottom.

Is there any way to get Premier Elements to deal with the 848x480 original format and keep that format all the way to the rendered output?

Thanks.

[ATR]

You omitted a lot of details, such as
Premiere Elements version
Source, format, duration of this 848 x 480 video (which I calculate as 16:9)
Export route, MPEG, DV AVI, Windows Media, Quicktime, other and all the settings under Advance Button....
Quality of end product in spite of the stretching and black borders.

But, here is my initial take on this....
Assuming that you are using Premiere Elements 7
1. Beforehand, Premiere Elements 7, Edit Menu, Preferences, General and uncheck "Default scale to frame size"
2. When you open the Premiere Elements 7 project .prel, set the project preset for NTSC DV Widescreen 16:9 or PAL DV Widescreen 16:9 (depends whether on your location).
3. Edit your video on the Premiere Elements 7 Timeline.
4. Share/Personal Computer/Windows Media (for this example)
a. Under the Advance Button, change the frame size to 848 x 480
b. Under the Advance Button, change the Pixel Aspect Ratio for the 16:9, using either D1/DV NTSC Widescreen 16:9 (1.212) or D1/DV PAL Widescreen 16:9 (1.4587), again depending on your location.

In spite of all the words and the gaps in information, I suspect that your issue was that you did not change the aspect ratio in the Advance area.

Please fill in the gaps and let me know if I have targeted the problem. If not, I will rethink the issue.

To be continued.....

ATR

[toonbon]

Thanks for the help.
Let me first fill in the details.
I’m running the trial version of Premier Elements 7.0.
The original video was avi and came from the Internet. When I loaded the video into Premier Elements, though, I got the error:
“Unsupported audio rate in file.”
So I used WinMPG Video Converter to convert the file to Mpeg2 with the same aspect ratio and quality. Premier Elements accepted this ok.
The quality of the end product Premier Elements was good, despite the stretching.

After doing what you suggested, I did get the full 848x480 output. I suspect the problem was that I hadn’t unchecked "Default scale to frame size" since I believe I did change the output to 848x480 in the Advanced options of Share.
But there’s still a problem. I’m playing the files with the GOM media player. While the mpeg2 that I gave to Elements could be played in slow motion, the rendered Elements output mpeg2 file could not. What could Elements be putting into the file to keep slow motion from working?
One more point. You say to select
Share/Personal Computer/Windows Media
but all I have shown under Share/Personal Computer is Adobe Flash Video, MPEG, and DV AVI. Is this perhaps because I’m running the trial version?
I also notice that under Edit/Project Settings/General that I’m not able to change the Video Frame size there. The fields are locked. Is this perhaps also because I’m using the trial version?
Thanks again for your help.

[ATR]

In spite of the fact that you are now using a Premiere Elements 7 try out, it should be full featured.
a. Share/Personal Computer/, you should be seeing export options for:
Adobe Flash Video
MPEG
DV AVI
Windows Media
QuickTime
If you are not seeing Windows Media and QuickTime options, I suspect that you are not scrolling down far enough (see scroll bars).
Whether you have the try out or purchased Premiere Elements, you will need to have the latest version of QuickTime installed on your computer for your Premiere Elements .mov work (see notes on that under System Requirement).

What format was this .avi that you started with? All files with a file extension of .avi are not created equal, that is, AVI is a wrapper format that contains different compression, examples, DV AVI, Motion JPEG AVI, AVI MPEG4, XVID, etc. The native format of the Premiere Elements Timeline is DV AVI. Why did you convert your non-DV AVI to MPEG2? Describe your export settings. Maybe we can suggest an alternative codec under MPEG.


When you talk about slow motion, how did you create the slow motion and to what degree of slow motion do you have?

Depending on your answers/explanations, it might be a good idea, if you can, to convert your original .avi to DV AVI and bring that into the Premiere Elements Timeline. BUT, the DV AVI will have a frame size of 720 x 480 with either 4:3 or 16:9 (depending on how you set the aspect ratio in the file conversion).

You do have to set a project preset when you open the program. Once you are in the program, Edit Menu/Project Settings you are restricted by/limited by what setting can and cannot be adjusted by some and not others. That is true for try out and purchased Premiere Elements.


Be advised that XVID is bad news when it comes to Premiere Elements (also true of the big brother Premiere Pro). More on that later if that is your source video.

Summary Suggestions:
1. Present details of slow motion created on Timeline content
2. Answer all other questions
3. Try Windows Media export, instead of MPEG2 (supplying details of settings for each).

To be continued…..

ATR

[toonbon]

Regarding Share/Personal Computer/Windows Media, you were right. I wasn’t scrolling down far enough. I’ll try to be extra smart for the rest of this dialog to make up for that.
What format was this .avi that you started with?
The original file was AVI/DX50. Figure 1 below shows the video and audio information available from GOM for View File Info.
Why did you convert your non-DV AVI to MPEG2?
I converted the original AVI to MPEG2 (with WinMPG Converter) because Premier Elements gave me an error about the audio when I tried to Get Media from the Organize tab:
“Unsupported audio rate in file.”

Maybe the audio information in Figure 1 below will tell us why that error is occurring.
I rendered to MPEG2 in Premier Elements because MPEG2 has usually worked well for me (I’ve been using Pinnacle 11). GOM can play them, including in slow motion.

Describe your export settings. Maybe we can suggest an alternative codec under MPEG.
See Figure 2.
When you talk about slow motion, how did you create the slow motion and to what degree of slow motion do you have?
The GOM player has a feature that reduces playback speed by 0.1x each time you hit the X key. So hitting the X key repeatedly goes from 1.0x to 0.9x to 0.8x, etc. until you get to where you want. While GOM says the setting is for, say 0.5x, the video is still playing at 1.0x and if I look at GOM’s View File Info it too shows that the video is playing at the full 29-30 fps.
It might be a good idea, if you can, to convert your original .avi to DV AVI and bring that into the Premiere Elements Timeline.
WinMPG Converter doesn’t have a DV AVI output option: DIVX or XVID. Converting to DIVX and bringing that into Premier Elements gives the same audio error as above.
Rendering to wmv with the output parameters in Figure 3 gives me a .wmv video that GOM will run in slow motion.
By the way, I’m not able to save a project again, even if I make changes to the timeline. Selecting the Share tab again always says “Project already saved.” Do you have to close the project and reopen it to re-render it?

[ATR]

Several avenues to go down:

By the way, I’m not able to save a project again, even if I make changes to the timeline. Selecting the Share tab again always says “Project already saved.” Do you have to close the project and reopen it to re-render it?

The program will automatically save every X minutes giving you X different versions of your project in the Adobe Folder on your hard drive (See AutoSave under Edit Menu/Preferences/AutoSave). However, if you going to Share in between one of these AutoSaves or closing the program and want to keep the latest version of your Timeline
a. File Menu/Save or File Menu/Save As (if you want to Save As a different name than project file or change the location of the Save). So, I would suggest that you File Menu/Save and then go onto Share.

As for DX50
http://www.movavi.com/codec/DX50.html
DX50 is DivX video. I have seen reports that Xvid and DivX were never meant to be edited and expected problems:
audio only/no video, video only/no audio/out of sync.
Xvid and Premiere Elements do not "mix". Sometimes you will see the suggestion to convert Xvid to DivX to see if that would work. May not. File conversion prior to bringing the Xvid or DivX is the top suggestion. You may have to experiment
Take a look at the following link to see if it helps:
http://listento.jaketolbert.com/uncategorized/how-to-edit-divx-encoded-video-in-adobe-premiere-elements-despite-trouble-with-unsupported-audio-rate-in-file-error/

Please update us on your progress.

ATR

[toonbon]

VirtualDubMod took out the audio ok and then I was able to edit the raw avi.

But no matter how I render to MPEG the result can't be run in slow motion by GOM, while virtually all other Mpeg files can. I notice that under Share/PC/Mpeg/Advanced the only codec available is MainConcept Mpeg Video, while under Share/PC/Windows Media/Advanced there are six codecs to choose from, and all the ones I've chosen there permit running the output in slow motion. So it seems, perhaps, that Premier Elements needs a few more, upscale, mpeg codecs to choose from. Is there a way to get it to use a different mpeg codec?

Regarding the ability to render again without closing the project, you say to just File Menu/Save or File Menu/Save As, but this doesn't work here. Going back to Share then still says "Project already saved." I have to close the project and then reopen it. Am I missing something?

Thanks again for all your help.

[ATR]

As for the saving, maybe I am misunderstanding your message here. Let us see.

Given your Timeline content. You edit it and then want to export it. You may or may not have AutoSave on, but that is every so often as per your AutoSave settings. So, go File Menu/Save, before you head over to Share/Personal Computer/for example MPEG. You export there by selecting your route and hitting the Save Button in the MPEG export dialog. The MPEG export is then saved to the hard drive location that you designed in that MPEG export dialog. It will export the current Timeline content. When the export is finished, then you click on Done.

When you click on Done, that takes you back to the Share with all the export options from which to choose for another export. If you do not go back to the Edit Menu and make changes in the Timeline, you will export the same Timeline for subsequent exports...

I will be posting regarding the slow motion MPEG GOM player issue within the hour.

To be continued....

ATR

[ATR]

I did a mini test run doing the following:

I used a 30 sec .wmv file (that I had slowed the Speed to 50% with Time Stretch) and exported it as MPEG:
Share
Personal Computer
MPEG
Presets = MPEG2 Multimedia Compatible
Left default settings under Advance as is.
Save

From the save hard drive location that I designated before I hit Save, I played back the video via Windows Media Player. I found the slow motion that I set on the Premiere Elements Timeline unchanged.

So, if you take the MPEG file (with its slow motion) that you are generating in your setup and play it via Windows Media Player, is the slow motion that you applied to the Timeline maintained?

This is the following information that I need specific answers to:
1. Answer to last question especially
2. How are you applying the slow motion to the Timeline content and to what degree?
3. When you get to Share/Personal Computer/MPEG, what are ALL your settings, from Presets on the MPEG dialog, to the settings under the Advance Tab?
4. Have you been over to the GOM web site and viewed threads in its forum. There was one question there that sounded like what you are describing, but unfortunately it was left as a dangling thread.
http://www.gomlab.com/eng/forum.html

To be continued....

ATR

[toonbon]

First, re-rendering without Closing is solved. I wasn't selecting Done. (It looked like a label saying it was done, rather than something I had to select.)

Regarding the slow motion, I'll be glad to try what you suggested, but let's make sure first that we're both on the same page. I'm not using Premier Elements Time Stretch to do the slow motion. I'm letting Premier Elements render in real time to mpeg and then I'm using the slow motion feature of GOM to try to play the rendered mpeg in slow motion. GOM has been able to slow down every mpeg I've given it - except those rendered by Premier Elements. I'd rather render in real time so the resulting file isn't twice as big for a 0.5X slowdown. Plus the amount of slow down desired isn't known sometimes until the video is being watched and you want to go back and watch someting again slower.

I poked around on the GOM site but didn't find anything useful.

It seems that perhaps Premier Elements just hasn't put a lot of effort into generating mpeg output, and the single codec they use doesn't have the minimum hooks GOM needs to insert frames to effect a slow down.

[ATR]

I think that I am back on the same page with you re: how you are trying to use the GOM slow motion feature to get a slow motion playback of the Premiere Elements MPEG encoded video.

It could be a bug in GOM or the way the Premiere Elements MPEG is written which you believe to be the case.

One way that we could approach this is for you to make a list and compare:
a. All the properties (codec and settings for) of the MPEG file(s) to which you can apply the GOM slow motion feature successfully (presumed non Premiere Elements encoded)
b. All the properties (codec and setting for) of the MPEG file(s) to which you cannot apply the GOM slow motion feature (presumed Premiere Elements encoded).

And, throw into all this, information from the GOM software Help which states how the slow motion feature works and other requirements for its use?

But, the quickest way to get information on this may be to post your question in the GOM forum where you are most likely to find a user who has run into this issue.

I will continue to research this, but I think that your answer is likely in the GOM player coupled with the codec. Do you have the latest version of the GOM player installed. Take a close look at the following links (dated April 2009) that cites for GOM Player 2.1.17.4710


Latest Changes - Security patch: .srt subtitle
- Improve HD decoding performance
- Bug fix: Subtitle seeking problem
- Bug fix: VC-1(WVC1) video codec problem with certain MPEG media files
- Bug fix: EVR rendering problem
- Modifying GOM Player process priority level
- Modifying Gretech FLV source filter
- Modifying configuration wizard
- Add disabled filter list

View all changes... (http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/Gom-Player/1154944089/1?all_reviews#)


It would be helpful to get more information on the change that I have put in Bold.

Please update on what is happening.

To be continued....

ATR

[toonbon]

Ok, I'll proceed to dig deeper into GOM and the bug fixes.

But what about the issue of other mpeg codecs for Premier Elements? There must be dozens of great mpeg codecs out there but Premier Elements only gives us one to choose. Is there a way to plug in others? Which ones are the best?

Also, would you have any interest in verifying what I'm seeing with the GOM player? It's a great player (IMO) and you can download it free at http://www.gomlab.com/eng/GMP_download.html.

I'll report back.

[toonbon]

Back again.

I'm already using the latest GOM, so I should have all the bug fixes.

As far as posting to the GOM forum, that's probably not going to be productive. I posted a question there 5/1 and still haven't gotten a reply and neither have the other questions posted there.

I used the GOM View File Info feature (Ctrl + F1) to look at videos that did and didn't respond to slow motion commands ("X"). Both have inputs of YV12(RAW). The only difference in video details that I see is that for MPEG-2 the one that works says Demultiplexer and the one that doesn't (Premier Elements) says Splitter.

[ATR]

Minds with a common thought....

I downloaded the GOM player (version 2.1.17.4710) about two hours ago and have been doing some exploration and experimentation. So, when I got back here to post my initial results, I found it interesting to find your message suggesting that I download that player.

I used what I had at hand, namely
AVI MPEG4 file
.wmv file
Each was exported from the Premiere Elements 7 Timeline via Share/Personal Computer/MPEG, Presets = MPEG-1 Multimedia Compatible as well as MPEG-2 Multimedia Compatible. The default settings under Advance button were left as is.

With both video formats, starting video file format to MPEG, the MPEG was playable in the GOM player and playback fast (C) or slow (X) could be achieved WHEN the export preset was MPEG-1 Multimedia Compatible. I could not get playback at all in GOM for the MPEG-2 Multimedia Compatible exports.

I just took the AVI MPEG4 file, exported Share/Personal Computer/MPEG, Presets = NTSC DVD Standard. The default settings under Advance button were left as is. This MPEG export played great in GOM, and there was no problem setting slow (X) or fast (C) motion.

See if you can repeat any of this in your situation, and we will take it from there. I am going to be calling it a day on this side, but first thing tomorrow morning I will look to see what messages you left in this thread.

To be continued.....

ATR

[toonbon]

I rendered my AVI to MPEG-1 and to Standard DVD. GOM could play both but neither in slow motion. If your MPEG-1 could play slowly in GOM perhaps Premier Elements does something different in the output depending on what it starts with. You started with WMV and MPEG-4, I started with DX50.

I tried rendering a 1280x720 WMV I had, first to MPEG-2 and then MPEG-1. The MPEG-2 just stutters along slowly in GOM, even without me asking for slow motion. The MPEG-1 sort of played normally and slow in GOM, except that the video was flickering.

So this suggests that the output characteristics from Premier Elements definietly depend on what it starts with. You'd think it would just convert all input formats to some editable format (DV AVI?) and then convert that after editing to the output you asked for.

We're starting to get a huge number of variables, between outputs and inputs. Perhaps the solution is to determine what Premier Elements prefers as an input, in the sense that it will generate high-quality output from that that GOM can slow down, and then convert all the input videos to that format before giving them to Premier Elements.

The question I have, though, is, Why doesn't all this stuff just work? How many years have these formats and codecs been around and how many years has Adobe been in the video editing business? It doesn't seem like any of these problems should still be happening.

Even the rendering quality of Premier Elements seems substandard. Nothing I've rendered, including HD720 WMV with the Advanced Profile, looks as good as the AVI DX50 I started with. I'm willing to give Premier Elements all the processing cycles and memory that it wants, but it just doesn't seem to be able to build a video that looks as good as what it started with. Certainly the film industry doesn't put up with this kind of quality. What's the difference?

Sorry for the rant.

By the way, just curious. Where are you physically? I'm in California.

[ATR]

I need a brief recap, with corrections supplied if I am wrong on the details.

1. You are starting with DivX.
Premiere Elements does not fare well with Xvid or DivX. The problems are varied. The general rule is, if you have Xvid, try to convert it to DivX and see IF that will work in Premiere Elements. Often the answer is to try to convert the Xvid/DivX to a format that will work in your application. Have you tried converting the DivX to something else and then bringing that to the Premiere Elements Timeline?

2. First, you had the audio error issue. You resolved that in Virtual Dub Mod. So, what file format did you bring to the Premiere Elements Timeline after that? If a file with an .avi file extension, with what compression...DV AVI, other?

3. One of the reasons that people go to for the Xvid or DivX is because of the better quality, but not better from the point of view of editing that kind of video in most video editors. In comparisons of video quality, please include the video format as well as the video resolution in the equation.

If you clarify what exactly you are bringing into Premiere Elements Timeline (after the Virtual Dub Mod), I will see if I can find a free download online with which to experiment. But, it sure sounded to me that you were bringing "raw" Divx to the Premiere Elements Timeline.

About the GOM player...I do not look for slow motion, fast motion playback of video at the player level. Windows Media Player also has such an option which works essential with .wmv video. If I want slow motion/fast motion video, I incorporate that at the video editor level. But, I must say one thing about that the free GOM player, it plays back DVD-VIDEO great; whereas Windows Media Players require a plug in ($$$$).

You probably have seen this type of link before:
http://labs.divx.com/node/6269

ATR
(I am on the East Coast USA)

[toonbon]

Premiere Elements does not fare well with Xvid or DivX. The problems are varied. The general rule is, if you have Xvid, try to convert it to DivX and see IF that will work in Premiere Elements. Often the answer is to try to convert the Xvid/DivX to a format that will work in your application. Have you tried converting the DivX to something else and then bringing that to the Premiere Elements Timeline?I understand that DivX is hard for editors to edit, but I'm not doing any editing here. I just drop the input file into the timeline and then render it. The task is to just render the timeline into something that holds most of the input resolution and that GOM can play in slow motion. I've tried converting the original DivX file to MPEG and dropping that into the timeline and rendering it to MPEG-2 but the result is the same as when the DivX in the timeline is rendered to MPEG-2: GOM can't find the hooks in the MPEG-2 output file to do its slow motion trick.

First, you had the audio error issue. You resolved that in Virtual Dub Mod. So, what file format did you bring to the Premiere Elements Timeline after that? If a file with an .avi file extension, with what compression...DV AVI, other?I used the uncompressed output from VirtualDubMod. So the input to the Premier Elements timeline is a huge, uncompressed AVI file (with no audio).

I don't feel right asking you to do any more work on my problem, so let's wrap this up. You've done much more than I had any right to expect and I think I can see several ways forward from here:



The WMV9 codec with Advanced Profile converts the AVI to a decent output (MUCH better than Pinnacle) that GOM can slow down. This may be all I need.
The link you provided in the last post pointed out that VirtualDubMod will cut and paste DivX videos fine, with no re-encoding, as long as you're happy just working with GOPs. This may work for me. I can keep the original quality, do some editing, and play it in slow motion.
The same link mentioned a couple of other programs that will cut and paste DivX: DivX Author and avisynth. I haven't looked at those.

Thank you for all your work.

[ATR]

Thanks for your message.

We will bring closure to this thread. But, if you have any new developments in your project that you want to add on, please do so.

In spite of us closing this thread, I may do some exploration and experimentation with DivX and, if I find something of interest in the process, will post it in a new thread.

ATR

[toonbon]

Ok. And if you want to contact me directly I'm at [email deleted]