Export Problem

[Reddkryten]

Hello there.

I've ran into a problem with exporting.

Due to an assignment, I need to export a ten minute movie as a quicktime file.
So I clicked export etc...and found a 15GB file (and it was only 50% rendered!)
I went through a bunch of different codecs and still nothing. So I decided to manually set the kb/per second...big mistake. The bitrate was so low, the whole thing just looks like a blocky mess.

I know this can be done. Yesterday I watched a friend export another ten minute movie in final cut. He had a great quality video and the file size was only 300 or 400 megabytes.

So why am I getting gigantic messes?

Is there any settings or codecs or anything I should be using?

Thanks in advance.

[ATR]

There is a big jump between Premiere Elements and Final Cut, but....

What version of Premiere Elements are you using? For now, we will assume that is it Premiere Elements 7.

What exactly is on your Premiere Elements Timeline...video/audio, source, format, length plus other?

Assuming that there are no hang ups in what you are putting on the Timeline, try this export route, if you have not tried it already....

1. Share
2. Personal Computer
3. Quicktime
4. Cable Modem DSL
5. Click on Advance Tab in that area and
a. set Video Codec = H264 and change the frame size from 320 x 240 to 720 x 480.
6. Click OK, Save.
(if you want to, you can experiment later with other settings under the Advance Tab, but what I described "should" yield good results.)

Please update us on your progress.

ATR

[Reddkryten]

Hi there.

I forgot about share > export. For awhile I couldn't find PC, I was thinking weird things like a system file had been corrupted and I'd lost that ability...turns out I had resized the window and that option was hidden off screen, anyway, I've got it now.
I'm rendering using quicktime h264, 720 x 576 at 25 fps in 1.444 pixel aspect ratio. Wish me luck and small file sizes.

I looks like this'll be a long render, but what it has already output looks like a fairly small file. I'll let you know in an hour or so. So all is looking well.

One thing though. Premiere Elements and Final Cut are pretty different, but quicktime should be more or less identical across platforms, right? I mean, FCP might have a slightly nicer version of the codec, but not 15GB of a difference. :p

Ah well, all will be revealed soonish.

[Reddkryten]

Well after the render, here I am.

File size 72MB!
I'm not totally happy with the video quality,it looks kinda like a VHS tape, not bad, just a touch smudged.
Any tips, I'm probably gonna try MPEG4 next.

Either way, I know I can create normal sized files, so now it's just about getting the quality.

[Chuck Engels]

For Quicktime files and MP4 it is much easier to import a AVI from Premiere Elements into QuickTime Pro and export the MOV or MP4 from there. Much better quality and a whole lot easier, just the standard settings are usually fine. I have resorted to this method 100% of the time whenever I need a Quicktime or MP4 file. Quicktime Pro is only $30 and well worth every penny.

I do always us Premiere Elements for FLV export and it does a very good job with that, the quality is excellent and the file sizes relatively small. They are along the same lines as MOV so it depends on your preference.

WMV is another format that Premiere Elements does OK but not great and Windows Movie Maker or Windows Media Encoder can do a much better job, both of those are free.

Just my 2 cents.

[ATR]

You appear to be in a PAL area (not NTSC), so I will direct any further details in that direction.

You never did say what version of Premiere Elements that you are using and what your source media are (formats and such) and all those details that may or may not have consequences.

Do you have the latest version of Quicktime installed on the same computer as your Premiere Elements? If not, do so. The Quicktime export that I suggested as a first try usually gets high marks. A Windows Media export can take longer, so do not become alarmed if it does (2 Pass Encoding).

Experiment and explore the Share/Personal Computer/various export routes and the settings under the Advanced Button.

Please keep us updated on your progress.

Good luck and looking forward to the word "Success".

ATR

[Reddkryten]

Oh, I forgot about the version.

I'm using premiere elements 4. Quicktime...ya know, I don't think I've updated that one in awhile. Quicktime Version 7.5.5?

I was thinking of the original camera settings, cause I'm looking at the interlacing settings and I've seen that one cause problems, sometimes things look fine on my comp but once displayed, mice teeth all over the place.

The footage was shot using a VX2000 camera.

Quicktime Pro, hmm, thinking about that. If I use it, it should be almost identical to the export from FCP, right?

[ATR]

Reddkryten

Add on....

I have gotten some excellent results with the Quicktime H.264 export in Premiere Elements as well as the other exports there in Share/Personal Computer, so from my perspective now is not the time to be thinking about Quicktime Pro or for that matter Final Cut.

We do need to be thinking about what is on your Premiere Elements Timeline and evaluating and (if necessary) optimizing the Advance Settings for a given export.

So, carry on, stay focused, and good luck again.

ATR

[Reddkryten]

Okay, no to Quicktime Pro. In some ways that's easier. When using multiple video conversion programs, it becomes a pain to figure out exactly where it went wrong, usually somewhere in between the programs.

So, is there any way to find out hat the current interlacing settings are on my timeline?

[ATR]

I suspect that we are a bit out of sync with our response exchanges.

But here goes....

I believe that the current version of Quicktime is 7.6 (in my computer it specifies 7.6 (1292)).

I made a mad dash online to see what VX2000 was. It appears to the miniDV camcorder = Sony DCR-VX2000. If so, did you capture your recordings into Premiere Elements 4 via Firewire? What does the video look like on the Premiere Elements 4 Timeline?

Since DV AVI is the native format of the Premiere Elements Timeline, I would have thought that you would have gotten some good results with the Quicktime H.264 export. See if updating Quicktime has any impact on the results that you got.

How are doing with computer optimization, defragmentation, available RAM, free hard drive space and all that?

Talk to you soon,

ATR

[Reddkryten]

Yep, miniDV and captured by firewire.

How does it look in the timeline...Umm, I'm not quite sure what you mean. It looks like a long grey rectangle, but I'm guessing that's not very helpful.

Resources and Ram are fine (although it's been awhile since I defraged, but my comp seems to be running without any problems). And I'm REALLY not worried about HD space.

[Reddkryten]

BTW, I'm looking at the Export Settings window now. Between the codec choice and the Frame Width is another option called "quality". It is currently set at 50, should I increase that?

Is there any number I should set the bitrate to?

[ATR]

I think that we are still out of sync, but maybe we will catch up....

If you are putting DV AVI on that Timeline, you should be in good shape.

But, what exactly is the quality of what you are seeing in the Monitor (not Preview Window) when you play back what you have imported to the Premiere Elements 4 Timeline....bad..good..great???

You should not have to, but....

right click the video on the Timeline, select Field Options, and experiment with the options there, starting with Reverse Field Dominance.

if you think that you are seeing jerky or flickering video, highlight the video on the Timeline, then Windows Menu/Properties to bring up Properties, and then under Motion expand Motion to get to AntiFlicker slider and adjust it accordingly.

I will await your progress.

ATR

[ATR]

Those settings are pretty much optimized....

I would leave the Quality at 50 and experiment with the Bitrate.

But first I would need to know, does your Timeline look great and your export look below par? Or, does both your Timeline and export look below par?

ATR

[Reddkryten]

Oh, the video that's played on the timeline. The quality of that is perfect. It's only when the video is exported that quality becomes an issue. There's no interlacing problem on the timeline.

It's the exports that are below par.

[ATR]

Defragment the computer.

Install the latest version of Quicktime.

Try the Quicktime H.264 again.

ATR

[ATR]

By the way, are you multitasking while you are exporting? If so, do not.

ATR

[ATR]

I just thought of something that would interesting to know..

You are in the Edit Mode of Premiere Elements 4. You have your DV AVI video on the Timeline. You say it looks great.

Is there a red or green line running across the top of the Timeline? If you have just DV AVI on that Timeline it should be green.

If it is red, then press the Enter Key of the Main Keyboard and wait until the process of "Rendering the Timeline" is complete. Rendering the Timeline in this fashion gets you a better Preview of what the end product should look like. The process does not impact quality. It is just giving you a better preview of things to come for the end product. At the end of the process the red line turns green.

Let us see if this idea is a dud or useful.

ATR

[Reddkryten]

Yep, green line, rendered.

And yes I was multitasking last time, I'll avoid that now.

So what should I set the bitrate as?

[ATR]

You do not want to change too many things at the same time or you will have to do a lot of back tracking to figure out what did the job.

BUT, when and if you get to bitrate (aka data rate), you could experiment with
a. Adobe as is bitrate
b. bitrate, anywhere from 8200 to 25000 kbps (if my calculations are OK that should be equivalent to just about 1 to 3 MB/second.

Good luck.

ATR

[ATR]

Depending on your results and before you leave the Quicktime exporting area,
maybe take a look at:

Video Codec Sorenson Video 3 Compressor instead of H.264
Frame Size as before 720 x 576
Frame Rate 25 or 30 fps
Pixel Aspect Ratio: "D1/DV Pal Widescreen 16:9 (1.422) or D1/DV Pal (1.067).
Field Order: could try, Lower Field First
Bitrate: default, 1 to 3 MB/sec (about 8200 to 25000 kbps/sec)

ATR
(What are you using for playback of the .mov file that you obtain...the outdated Quicktime Player?)

[Reddkryten]

I just watched the new render. It's beautiful.
I ended up taking the bitrate down to 4000, cause 300mb was what I was aiming for.

Well, I updated Quicktime, so I guess I'll be playing it on that. But I have to hand this disc in to a teacher, so I have no idea what they'll be playing it on.

I think I can finally say success!

One odd thing though. The option we are supposed to use in FCP is "click on Setting, and keep it on Current settings to match our project."
In my mind, that means FCP is going to duplicate all the settings from the DV AVI file. so 720 x 576, 25fps etc. However, if it's doing that, then wouldn't it duplicate the bitrate of uncompressed minidv? I don't know the exact number on that, but I do know that it's big. Somewhere on my drive I have a seven second uncompressed clip which is 30MB.
So obviously FCP isn't doing that, but what is it doing?

[ATR]

Magnificent. Congratulations.

With so many communications going back and forth at such a rapid pace, what video codec did you finally use in Premiere Elements and what were the settings?

You have made my day with that word "Success" included in your last post.

Continued success.

ATR

[Reddkryten]

Hehe, glad I could make your day :D

I used pretty much the same settings as before, h.264 but with quicktime updated and the bitrate at 4000 instead of the default 800.

Thanks for all the help.

[ATR]

Thanks for the information.

I am working on a response for your last questions, but it might be together until tomorrow.

ATR

[ATR]

I am working on your last question, part by part. In doing so, I came across the matter of bitrate (data rate) units that I wanted to detail. Refer to my response #20 in this thread.

kbps - kilobits per second
Mbps = megabits per second
MB/sec = megabytes per second
KB/sec = kilobytes per second

So,
8200 kilobits per second = 8.0 megabits per second = 1.0 megabytes per second.
25000 kilobits per second = 24.4 megabits per second = 3.1 megabytes per second.

In the Share/Personal Computer/for example Quicktime, under Advance Button, the bitrate unit is in kbps, whereas if you look at the bitrate in the Properties of a file in the Project View, you may see average data rate = ....KB/sec. I did not want anyone to confuse kbps with KB/sec.

Typically you will see DV AVI with an average bitrate of about 3.6 MB/sec (megabytes per second) which would be equal to about 30 Mbps (megabits per second) or equal to about 29500 kbps (kilobits per second).

Check it out to see if I got my kilobits and megabits et al. going in the right direction. Fortunately, there are a lot of online data transfer rate converters available.

To be continued.....

ATR