Need Color Management for Dummies Help!

[lmlevesque]

I have a new HP HDX laptop with Vista. I use PSE6 and have an HP D7360 printer. I use HP Premium Plus paper when printing my photos and always use HP ink. My pictures come from my Cannon elph and I download them as .jpgs. I am having a problem b/c my printed pictures come out much daker than what is on the screen.
I have read many posts that talk about Vista Color Management, ICC profiles and much more... and am totally lost.
I don't have a color management package like spyder or huey and I really don't want to get one.
Can someone tell me the basic settings I should use in PSE and what I should do with color managment on my printer? Should I make any color management changes in Vista (that part kinda scares me!)
Or can you point me somewhere where I can understand 'from the beginning' what ICC profiles are.. and what steps I need to take.
I always had problems with my old Dell PC with things printing darker, but not THIS dark. And no matter how much I play with simple settings like brightness and contrast on my laptop, I can't get it to match the output.

I know this is long... thanks for letting me vent!! Any help would be appreciated.

[johnrellis]

For your basic needs, you need to determine whether the printer is printing normal, unedited photos too dark or if your laptop’s display is too light. Your HP printer should produce pleasing prints of daylight photos with the default PSE and printer settings.

So first, reset PSE and your printer to default settings (see below). Then take a picture with the Canon’s default settings in normal daylight conditions, don’t edit it, and print it. Does it come out way too dark? If so, something is wrong with your basic PSE or printer setup. To further troubleshoot, try opening the photo in Windows Photo Gallery and printing from there – if it prints ok, then the problem is with PSE; if it doesn’t, then problem is with the printer.

If the print looks reasonably good (as it should with a newer HP printer and a Canon Elph), then the problem is with your laptop’s display.

To reset your print settings:

- In the Organizer’s Print window, select More Options, and in Print Space, select Same As Source.

- In the Editor’s Print window, hold down the Alt key and click Reset (lower-right corner). This will set Color Handling to Printer Managers Colors and Rendering Intent to Relative Colorimetric.

- The easiest way to reset your printer’s settings to their defaults is to delete the printer from Vista and download and reinstall the lastest print driver from HP:

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/softwareList?os=2093&lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&lang=en&product=1156651 (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/softwareList?os=2093&lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&lang=en&product=1156651)

Once you’ve configured PSE and your printer to get reasonably good prints of unedited photos, then you can consider whether you want to calibrate your display. But you shouldn’t have to get involved with calibrators or color management just to get reasonably good prints from unedited photos.

If you want a good introduction to color management with PSE, many people here have found Colin Woodbridge’s tutorial very accessible and helpful:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/colin_w/colour%20problems.htm (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/colin_w/colour%20problems.htm)

[lmlevesque]

Thank you for all your help. The prints are better... but I think I'll have to investigate a color calibration program :(. One thing that made it better was to not accept the default paper type from the printer settings. When I tell it that the paper is HP Premium Photo paper, it gets closer - but still a little darker. The strange thing is that when I print in Adobe it is too dark. When I print from Window Print viewer they are too light. :confused:
I'll keep trying. Any other advice would be appreciated.

[johnrellis]

One thing that made it better was to not accept the default paper type from the printer settings. When I tell it that the paper is HP Premium Photo paper, it gets closer - but still a little darker.
Ah, that was a mistake on my part – yes indeed, you should select the paper type. Note that HP Premium Photo paper is different than HP Premium Plus Photo paper, which you said you were printing on. So double-check that you’ve selected the right paper type.
I think I'll have to investigate a color calibration program
Note that a calibrator only changes what you see on the display and won’t affect what gets printed. The calibrator tries to ensure that what gets displayed is as close as possible to the true colors recorded in the photo. It’s only useful for printing if you’re making edits to the photo prior to printing and want to see on the display a close approximation of what will get printed.

The strange thing is that when I print in Adobe it is too dark. When I print from Window Print viewer they are too light.

Some more questions:

1. When you say “too dark”, do you mean that the print is fine-looking but it’s darker than what appears in PSE? Or do you mean that the print is not fine-looking because it is too dark (regardless of how it appears on the display)? If the former, then you need a calibrator. If the latter, then you need to focus on your printing setup.

2. Are you printing from the Organizer or the Editor? They are different print engines and don’t always behave the same. In general, people have better experience with printing from the Editor, though you should try both.

[RobertSchuldenfrei]

Hi,

You might want to look at this thread and Colin's website for more information about color management.

http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45088&highlight=Color+Management

In it Colin explains that the picture data is in RAM. Both the monitor and the printer read this information as their source. Once it leaves RAM and goes to the two devices they are two separate things (unless you change the image in PSE). If the image is fine, but your monitor is off calibration you think you are improving the image, but you are actually making it worse.

I have a standard test image that was on the CD when I bought my Canon S9000 printer many years ago. When I think I have a problem with my printer, I print this image with no alterations from the PSE Editor. I suggest you get a test image and do the same. If you send me a personal message with your e.mail address, I will send you the picture.

Good luck,

Bob

[lmlevesque]

Thanks again for you reply.
In regards to you comments:
Note that HP Premium Photo paper is different than HP Premium Plus Photo paper, which you said you were printing on. So double-check that you’ve selected the right paper type.

I was printing from my 4x6 photo tray which has regular premium paper. When I print 8.5x11 I use premium plus paper.

Note that a calibrator only changes what you see on the display and won’t affect what gets printed. The calibrator tries to ensure that what gets displayed is as close as possible to the true colors recorded in the photo. It’s only useful for printing if you’re making edits to the photo prior to printing and want to see on the display a close approximation of what will get printed.

I am editing my pictures. I use them for scrapbooking and my photography skills are limited :D. So I use PSE to correct the pictures before I print them.

1. When you say “too dark”, do you mean that the print is fine-looking but it’s darker than what appears in PSE? Or do you mean that the print is not fine-looking because it is too dark (regardless of how it appears on the display)? If the former, then you need a calibrator. If the latter, then you need to focus on your printing setup.


The print is coming out darker than what I see on the display - but it is much better than it was when I started! The shadows are darker, and the highlights aren't so bright. I also noticed that the yellows have a bit of a slight red cast (almost orange-ish). But I'll tackle color casting after I get the shadows/highlights fixed. I'm going to e-mail Bob and get that picture he has. I had google'd looking for a good color calibration photo and came up empty - so that may be just what I need.

2. Are you printing from the Organizer or the Editor? They are different print engines and don’t always behave the same. In general, people have better experience with printing from the Editor, though you should try both.

I am printing from the Editor. Honestly, I'm not that familiar with the Organizer. I have my photos arranged in a way on my hard drive that has worked for me for years - so I've never really invested any time on learning Organizer.

As I mentioned, I use my pictures for scrapbooking, so I often do custom sized. When printing, I arrange them on several 8.5 x 11 sheets before printing them out. I will sometimes even use MS Powerpoint to create the photo collage. The prints from Powerpoint are very close to the ones from PSE Editor. I want to get more into digital scrapbooking, so if I decide to make the leap, I will probably have to invest in the color calibration software. For now, I will 'slightly over correct' the shadows/highlights of my pictures on the screen and see if I can get to a place where the prints are good enough for me to use. If the color cast really begin to become a problem, I'll have to evaluate my options...

thanks again

[johnrellis]

Given everything you’ve reported, and if you’re sure you’re running with the default print settings in PSE and you’ve reinstalled the latest print drivers, then it does sound like the next step is to invest in a display calibrator, which is the most straightforward way of ensuring your display is showing a close approximation to the true colors recorded in your photo.

Trying to manually adjust your display or printer settings can be very difficult, and you may end up spending as much or more on ink and paper than on a calibrator. Editing your photos on an uncalibrated display to get them to print well is even worse: Not only will you spend on ink and paper, but it’s likely that if you take those photos to another computer, you’ll be very disappointed in how they display and print.

The Spyder2 Express is a good entry-level calibrator, currently $65 at Amazon. Also, be sure to read Colin’s tutorial I referenced in a previous message.