AVI Audio Quality Low After Import

[Danny1]

Hi everyone! I'm so happy to have found this place. I do hope that someone can help me.

Some days ago I switched from Premiere Elements 3 to PE7 (I consider this a downgrade, but that's another story!). I used PE5 for editing, re-editing or simply encoding AVI clips, some short, some two ot three hours long. These AVI's were not and will not be from a camcorder, but are the type you usually find encoded with Xvid, Divx, and such.

My problem is that although the video portion of the AVI is imported to PE7 perfectly, the quality of the audio is reduced dramatically. I did some tests by imporing WMV files and WMV's worked perfectly. So what am I doing wrong?

In the dreaded Project Setting, I have indeed tried both DV and "HardDisk,Flash..." under NTSC, but to no avail.

Please Help. Your suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Illustration:

Properties of a one minute AVI clip:

http://i41.tinypic.com/w8x0jt.jpg

Properties of the same clip once imported into Premiere 7: (Please note PE7's detection of the "Source Audio Format"!!!!)

http://i39.tinypic.com/2m6jri9.jpg

[Chuck Engels]

Hi Danny,
What is the source of the AVI clips that you are having problems with?

Sorry to hear about your issues with version 7, you are not alone.
But then every version seems to have had its share of issues.

Was your previous version 3 or 4? There was no version 5 or 6 for Premiere Elements, they went right from 4 to 7.

[Danny1]

Hello, and thank you Sir for your response. The version is PE 3, not 5. Sorry. As I often use Photoshop Elements 5, and PE 3 was bundled with it, I got the numbers confused. Now you know that I'm a non-expert.

The Source of the AVI clip was (and in my case normally is) a DVDRIP of a TV program recorded on a DVD-R. Following shows the Audio configuration that I've always used:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2qi1swl.jpg

But I also occasionally download flash videos on the net, convert them to AVI or WMV for editing on PE.

I had my fingers crossed to not hear that a reputable program such as PE 7 can't import simple AVI's!

I greatly appreciate your giving your valuable time and help.

[ATR]

Danny1

We definitely need more information about those problem files that you say have .avi extension, but yet you go on to describe them
These AVI's were not and will not be from a camcorder, but are the type you usually find encoded with Xvid, Divx, and such.

Xvid and Divx are not supported files. Take a look at this topic from the Premiere Elements User to User Forum at Adobe:
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b70c5a

So, if these problem files are not DV AVI and not Xvid, Divx, what are they? Were they originally Xvid and/or Divx and you just changed the file extension or did you convert the Xvid and/or Divx to DV AVI with some converter program? Details, please.

Also, from where are you getting the Audio Properties which described "Stereo" for the file?

That is it for now. I will be watching for your reply. Oh, a few more items:

Since you mentioned that you were exploring the Hard Drive/Flash Memory project preset, I am assuming that you meant that you had been using Premiere Elements 4 (since there is no Premiere Elements 5 or 6).

Also, stay with the NTSC/DV project presets. And, when and if ever indicated, right click the video on the Timeline, select Field Options, and dot the Reverse Field Dominance.

ATR

[Danny1]

Thank you ATR for your reply.

My reply to Chuck Engels will answer some of your questions.

As to others, the file extentions are all .AVI; never .Xvid or such. Also, as mentioned, I've never had a problem importing such files to PE3. They worked perfectly together. As to the audio properties of the clip, I used a free program called GSpot. http://www.headbands.com/gspot/

I read the comments in the PE Forum, and there seems to be some hope that installing FFDShow may help. But ffds came pre-installed on my PC and I already have it.

I will of course stay with NTSC/DV project presets, and I'll test the Reverse Field Dominance as you suggested.

I thank you for your help.

[ATR]

Danny1

I saw you details after I posted my last response.

You talk about Premiere Elements 7 and its handling of a simple .avi file. Whether it be version 7 or earlier, the native format of the Premiere Element Timeline is DV AVI (where DV is the compression standard and AVI is the wrapper). There can be many types of .avi files (AVI MPEG4, AVI Motion JPEG, etc) The latter are not DV AVI. Once you deviate from this native format, there can be problems which require workarounds (like converting your file format to DV AVI before bringing it into the Premiere Elements Timeline.

When your TV programs are recorded to DVD-R, are they burned as DVD-VIDEO? I am assuming so. From your details, I have downloaded the AOA DVD Ripper. There are 3 different codec options under "AVI":
Cinepak Codec Radius
Microsoft Video 1
Xvid MPEG-4 Codec

From your graphics, I suspect that you have selected the Xvid MPEG-4 Codec which is giving you a converted file with an .avi file extension which you are describing as a simple .avi. This is not DV AVI which Premiere Elements considers a simple .avi. When I used the AOA DVD Ripper with a DVD-VIDEO format on a DVD disc, I used:
Codec Microsoft Video 1
Audio: Use MP3 Encoder
I ended up with a file with an .avi file extension that could be brought into Premiere Elements 7 Timeline with playback for video and audio.

I would go back and take a lot at your AOA settings. You might want to explore ripping the VOBs from the DVD with the Media Downloader of Premiere Elements. There again some people have excellent results, while others need to use the workaround of converting the VOBs to DV AVI before bringing the video to the Premiere Elements Timeline with a program such as MPEG Streamclip (also free download).

If I have gone off in the wrong direction, please let me know. I will be watching for your progress.

ATR

[ATR]

Danny1,

I am typing too slowly so our responses are getting out of sync.

Let me know if any of my comments are productive in advancing to a resolution.

ATR
(Good Luck)

[Danny1]

ATR,

How do I love thee? Let me count the ways... lol

Microsoft Video 1 and Xvid video encoders, combinned with ACM or PCM audio codecs worked perfectly, and the result be imported into PE7 with no problem; i.e. no deterioration of the sound.

Microsoft Video 1 + MP3 was great, as is Xvid+MP3, but it too failed (Audio wise) to be correctly imported into PE7.

Now I'm very happy that I can get started again, using ACM instead of MP3, but I'm really curious to know why MP3's on two differently encoded videos lose their quality on import.

My problem therefore is no longer urgent, thanks to your help, but perhaps you might have some further suggestions as to the reason behind the wrong reading by PE7 of files with MP3 audios, so that I can fix it in the future.

Many thanks for your help my friend. I hope to be able to return the favor some day.

[ATR]

Danny1,

Being a native of New Jersey, it is with extra delight that I learn that you have found an answer to your project issue.

I did just a quick check of AOA with its "AVI" video and audio codecs. The ripped content from my DVD-VIDEO did work (AOA: Microsoft Video 1 and Use MP3 Encoder) in Premiere Elements 7. So, I will see if I can figure out why other audio codecs worked for you while MP3 Encoder did not.

If you get some spare time, I would be curious to know the results if you just put your DVD-R in the DVD drive tray, opened Premiere Elements 7, and then used its Media Downloader to rip the contents from the DVD-R to the Premiere Elements 7 Timeline. (For Media Downloader, Premiere Elements 7 Get Media, category "DVD (Camcorder or PC DVD Drive)".

To be continued

ATR

[Danny1]

Happy New Year ATR!

A native of NJ!? :) What a delightful coincidence! (Considering the snow we'll get tomorrow, personally I wish I was in Hawaii!)

I did exactly as you said above.

Importing the VOB files directly from the DVD drive indeed would be the ideal solution, taking less time by making the preliminary ripping unnecessary, but unfortunately, it has never worked for me, resulting in some loss of sound and image instability. Not only that, I have never been able to figure out how to merge the separate 2 or 3 VOBs together (without breaks) in the timeline. Researching the subject on the net, one finds that the majority of the recommendations made, regard the extraction of a MPEG or an AVI video from the VOB file, using either a DVD-ripper or a VOB converter, as a necessary preliminary step.

Today, doing the test, as I imported the DVD from the DVD-drive into PE, as usual the sound deteriorated and the image became unstable.

I don't know if this helps, but here are the properties of a VOB file on my DVD-R as indicated by GSpot:

E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.VOB
494 MB (506,104 KB / 518,250,496 bytes)
DVD "VOB" format
MPEG-2 Program Stream << { 1 vid, 1 aud }
Sys Bitrate: 10080 kb/s VBR
--------------------------------------------------
Codec: AC3 (CBR)
Info: 0xbd[0x80]:48000Hz 256 kb/s tot , stereo (2/0)
Stat: Codec(s) Installed

And these the properties of the same VOB as indicated by PE7 once on timeline: http://i43.tinypic.com/atnp77.jpg

[ATR]

In a recent thread we went back and forth about Premiere Elements Media Downloader and ripping VOBs from the DVD-VIDEO. Some people claim it works great, some claim not so great.

I would have hoped that the Media Downloader would have worked for you, but:

How about....MPEG Streamclip to convert the VOBs from the DVD-VIDEO to DV AVI and then bringing the DV AVI version into the Premiere Elements Timeline.
http://www.squared5.com/
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc4800e

If have found setting that works for you with AOA, at least that will keep your project moving forward. I still do not have the definitive answer on why you could not get those Use MP3 Encoder (AVI options) to work in AOA. I tried both again (Use MP3 Encoder and the one that worked for you ACM). Both worked for me. I looked up ACM and found that it represented "Microsofts Audio Compression Management" and was described "manages all audio codecs installed on your Windows and lets you convert between formats." Unless, we are missing an AOA setting between our computers, I can only speculate (guess) that there might be some codec variations between our computers. Words, does not explain.

I always keep thinking about these issues even afterwards. So, if I come up with some more information on this, I will post here.

Wishing you success with your projects,

ATR

[Danny1]

Thank you ATR.

BTW, out of curiosity, do you have a 32-bit or a 64-bit OS?:confused:

Not being an expert it had not occured to me to check or to mention here that my new PC is a 64-bit vista, because the software I use, including AOA and PE7, are advertised as "Vista-compatible".:confused:

As AOA is now freezing altogether, I'm going to buy the Vista Home Basic (32-bit) and give that a shot. That failing, I'll dump Vista and go back to my beloved darling XP (perhaps even PE3!).

A very frustrated Danny :mad:

[ATR]

Danny1

Thanks for the update.

My computer is a desktop with an operating system of Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 3, 32 bit. I also have a broken down Sony Vaio laptop which has an operating system of Windows XP Home Edition, Service Pack 3, 32 bit.

Both Premiere Elements 7 and AOA may be Vista compatiable, but....Premiere Elements 7 is a 32 bit application, and AOA probably is also.
With those 64bit operating systems, the 32 bit applications are supposed to run in a 32 bit compatibility mode (automatically). Contrary to some reports, you should not have to go into the Vista64 to do the switch yourself:

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.59b6bb5a/0

Make sure that you are OK with available RAM, especially with those Vista operating systems. Do you find that the system freezing is related to the size of the project with which you are working? Is your computer optimized, defragmented, etc., etc.

I will be watching for further reports. Do not give up. Keep the thought that success is right around the corner.

ATR