Editing a multicam project in PE7

[fastbill]

I'm a Premier Elements "newbie," though I've used Final Cut Pro extensively. This is my first post on Elements Village.

Recently, I shot a concert with 2 cameras. I'm now trying to edit the two captured clips into a single video, but the clip on Track 2 does not display as I view the movie by playing the timeline.

Here's what I did:

1. Captured both camera tapes.

2. Brought Cam1 (center shot) into Track 1 and Cam2 (side shot) into Track 2, and aligned the two clips.

3. Since I want the movie to begin with Cam1, I identified my first cut point in Track2, about 25 seconds from the beginning.

4. I disabled Track 1, and then cut Track 2 at that point.
(Q: Is there a better way to cut only Track 2, without first disabling Track 1?

Q: Is there a quick way to enable/disable a track in PE7, or is the only way in the Clips menu pulldown?)

5. I deleted the left-side clip from Track 2, leaving only Track 1 from 00:00:00;00 to this cut point. (Track 2 is empty from 00:00:00;00 to this cut point.)

6. I re-enabled Track 1 (so that both tracks are now enabled).

When I play the timeline from the beginning and reach the 25-second point where the Track 2 clip begins, the program continues to play Track 1.
Q: Shouldn't it be playing Track 2 from this point on?

Q: Have I overlooked something? (If so, what?)

Q: How do I fix things so that wherever Track 2 exists the program plays its contents, and where I have removed the clip from Track 2 then Track 1 will "shine through"?

Thanks for your assistance!
FastBill

[Tom Blizzard]

As you probably know, if video track 1 and video track 2 are both at 100% opacity, then track 2 will take priority and will display on your monitor. So when you get to the 25 second mark on the timeline and both tracks are "pulled up" to 100% opacity, you should see track 2...... but you only see track 1 ??? Wow..... that's strange......

All i can think to ask is: are you sure that the opacity is up on track 2 ????

[ATR]

FastBill,

Tom should be a big help to us here since I believe that not so long ago he posed several questions on this type of a project. Am I right, Tom?

FastBill, Tom pointed out that if you have a video clip on video track 2 and one directly below it in video track 1 AND there are no transparencies created in video track 2 video, you should be seeing just the video clip of video track 2. Tom, mentioned the possibility of zero Opacity for video track 2 in the situation that you described. There is another possibility if you got overzealous in your disabling of clips. Go back and make sure that you have not inadvertently disabled any of the video on video track 2. Make sure you have the correct clip highlighted when doing that procedure from the Clip Menu.

I am not quite sure why you need to be disabling/enabling tracks, but, if you need to do it, you could right click the video clip and check or uncheck Enable from the pop up menu right there on the Timeline. That way you are less likely to be disabling/enabling the wrong clip. Have you considered keyframing the opacity to achieve your purposes. If I recall correctly, Tom has used that technique successful in these situations.

I will be watching for your comments as well as Tom's.

ATR

[fastbill]

Thanks for your assistance...

If I right-click the clip in T2, the context menu entry for "Enable" is checked.

I agree that it appears to be an opacity problem, but when I open the Effects panel, select the clip in T2, click "Edit Effects" and expand "Opacity" it says that the opacity is currently 100%. If I select "Fade In" the clip needs to be re-rendered. Since rendering this clip (more than 90,000 frames) takes about one-half hour, I set the current workarea to approximately 7 seconds and pressed Enter to render the workarea. When that finished, PE7 automatically played the workarea...no change! The clip in T1 played, as before.

I'm baffled, and would appreciate any further suggestions.

BTW, I enabled and disabled tracks before making my cut because it seemed to me that clicking the Split Clip (scissors) tool in the Monitor window cut all enabled tracks at the current playhead location in the timeline. Is there a way to cut only one track without disabling the other tracks?

Thanks again,
FastBill

[fastbill]

The behavior is as if the video in Track 2 (V2) did not exist, but I see the correct thumbnails throughout the clip in V2.

More investigation produced these observations:


If I disable Track 1 (both audio and video, which are linked), when I play the timeline through the cut point where the clip in Track 2 begins, I hear the audio from Track 2 (A2) but the video remains black.
If I then "Unlink Audio and Video" in Track 2 and then disable A2 (but not V2), when I play the timeline through the cut point where the clip in Track 2 begins I do not hear anything, and the video is still black.

Any idea what's making V2 disappear, even though its Opacity is 100% and PE7 says it is Enabled?

Thanks again,
FastBill

[Tom Blizzard]

Golly, this is a puzzle. i just checked on a two camera project that I'm doing. I tried several possible things that might couse the problem.:confused:

Forgive me if this is a "silly" question, but is the yellow line that goes along (through) the video 2 frames on the timeline up or down on the timeline when you come to the 25 sec. spot??
Also, is the yellow line that goes through the video 1 frames on the timeline up or down ??

[ATR]

Fastbill

I am not sure if you said so, but:

1. If you brought just Cam 1 into the Timeline in a new Project, does it playback OK, video and audio? If you brought just Cam 2 into the Timeline in a new Project, does it playback OK, video and audio?

2. OK, you are working at your routine. You get to the point where your video (Cam 2) appears to disappear. At this point, what happens if you clear that Cam2 from Video Track 2 and replace it with Cam2 dragged down from the Media Panel (new unworked with Cam2). Can you see that new Cam2?

To be continued.....

ATR

[ATR]

Add on....

By the way, just what file formats (video and audio) are on the Timeline, video track 1 and 2??

ATR

[fastbill]

Tom & ATR --

There really are no "silly" questions, Tom :-). The yellow line is near the top in both V2 and V1. The files are all NTSC 29.97fps 720x480 .avi files. In this project, Track 2 contains "Side Cam 01.avi" and Track 1 contains "Main Cam 01.avi".

I've captured everything (in this project, as well as all of my other projects) from various MiniDV cameras over FireWire connections. I have a Toshiba Satellite laptop running Windows Vista Ultimate, with 2GB of RAM.

All of my PE7 projects are stored on a brand-new external Seagate 500GB USB2.0 drive. The folder structure looks like this (starting at the root of the drive):

-Adobe Premier Elements Projects
|---Project 1
|---Project 2
|---Test Project

Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to bring these clips from the Organizer to the timeline of a new project. Apparently when I first used PE7 this USB drive was assigned drive letter F:. Today, I happened to have another USB drive in F:, so my "Video Projects" 500GB HDD is assigned to letter G:.

In the Organize tab, the icons for these .avi files do not display an image of the clip; rather, they display red and green arrows pointing at each other in a circular fashion. If I attempt to drag one of these .avi files to the timeline (or simply double-click it), PE7 displays a dialog box whose title is something like this:

Where is F:\Adobe Premier Elements Projects\Project 1\Side Cam 01.avi?

If I navigate to G:\Adobe Premier Elements Projects\Project 1\ and double-click the "Side Cam 01.avi" file, PE7 displays this error message:

______________________________________
Generic Failure
______________________________________
This type of file is not supported, or the
required codec is not installed.

[OK]


Now, this gives rise to at least two more issues/questions:

1) PE7 successfully captured the MiniDV tape to the timeline, plays it successfully there, allows me to edit it there, etc. Why does it think that the filetype is not supported or the codec is missing when I attempt to re-use that clip from the Organizer?

2) If I right-click the clip in the Organizer and select "Update", and then navigate to G:\Adobe Premier Elements Projects\Project 1\, select the file "Side Cam 01.avi", and click the "Select" button, PE7 does not update the path reference for this .avi file -- it still shows the file path starting with F:\. (This is true for every icon shown in the Organizer.) Short of editing the project's .prel file in my XML text editor and changing the drive letters there, how can I get PE7 to change the paths of existing files?

Note that Edit > Preferences > General, then "Scratch Disks" shows that all of the Scratch Disks are set to "Same as Project" and their paths all are
G:\Adobe Premier Elements Projects\Project 1, but in Organizer the captured .avi files have paths starting with F:\.

Now for the good news: This evening, after I posted my question, I set up a new project. I captured two 49-minute tapes to the timeline, moved the second clip to Track 2, and synchronized the two clips. Like the other projects, this one is also on G:\, but Organizer thinks the .avi files are on F:\ as it does with all the other projects and files. However, since I had captured to the Timeline I was able to proceed with editing. I located my first transition point, split the clip in V2 only, added Cross Dissolve transitions to both V1 and V2 (after synchronization, V1 began at this point), disabled the clip in V2 after the cut, and--lo and behold--playback switches between tracks exactly as it should. No problem with the multicam edit in this project!

Hence, I know that my approach to multicam editing is sound. (That's a relief, because most of my "shoots" involve 2 cameras.)

BTW, I can play "Side Cam 01.avi" in Windows Media Player and QuickTime Movie Player. Both of them report that the file is only 640x480, whereas Windows Explorer's Properties dialog reports it as 720x480 (which is what it's supposed to be).

GSpot reports the codec used for this file is "dvsd (DVC/DV Video)" and that the dimensions are 720x480. Ulead Movie Factory says that the codec is "DV Video Encoder -- Type 2"; it does not report the dimensions. QuickTime Movie Player says that the Format is "DV/DVCPRO - NTSC, 640x480, Millions, 16-bit Integer (Little Endian), Stereo, 48.000 kHz". Windows Explorer's Properties dialog says that Frame Width=720 and Frame Height=480; it does not report the codec. WMP says that the codec is "DV Video Encoder."

But PE7 thinks that the codec is missing. :mad:

Sorry for the long-winded post. I'd appreciate any advice about (1) How to get PE7 to recognize that my files are now on G:\, not F:\, (2) What to do about the "missing" codec, and (3) Why do some programs state that the dimensions are 640x480, while other programs report it as 720x480?

Thanks again for your assistance!

Regards,
FastBill

[Tom Blizzard]

Hi Bill,
While we wait for ATR and his suggestions, I can add one thing that is similar to what you are experiencing.

I have experienced the same thing with this: In the Organize tab, the icons for these .avi files do not display an image of the clip; rather, they display red and green arrows pointing at each other in a circular fashion.

Since you started your project with your Seagate recognized as the "F" drive, the program is expecting to find your video clips on the "F" drive location. ( I think you realize this from your details above) When this has happened to me, the program will open and ask the location of the "missing" files. (Maybe you said that above) When I show it where to find them, everything is fine. Only problem is that everytime I open the project it always asks the same question. If there is a way around that, I don't know it. Since this came up very early in the editing process, I just went back and started a new project using the same captures.

After that experience, I made sure that my Seagate was recognized in the correct drive location.

The size change in your video size is strange to me. How could that happen? Bothyour cams were the same model and using the same settings ?? Both videos were captured using the same settings? Sure strange, isn't it, that one would be 640 ,,, and the other 720 .....

I'm still thinking and waiting for ATR. :) It may take a bit more discussion and thinking to find a solution.

[fastbill]

Hi, Tom --

Regarding the "missing" files -- I could understand that if I had originally captured on F: and now my HDD was assigned to G: the program would be confused. However, when I captured the new project last night (See "Now for the good news..." in my previous post) the HDD was in G:, the tapes were captured to G:, but the Organizer still displayed the red-green "missing" arrows and thinks that the files are on F: rather than G:. Sounds like it might be a bug in PE7.

Regarding the "size change" -- I captured this "Side Cam 01.avi" file from a Sony PD170 prosumer camera. I then opened this same file in all of the applications that I mentioned in my previous post (or, in the case of Windows Explorer, simply right-clicked this file and selected Properties). Some of the applications said the image size was 720x480 (which is correct), some of them said the image is 640x480. Very strange.

Let's hope that ATR might be able to shed some light on these mysteries. In the meantime, I'm editing the project that I captured last night.

Thanks,
FastBill

[ATR]

Fastbill

I did not want you to think that I had forgotten about you. I am thinking about the issues and probably will have my thoughts together on this later tonight or tomorrow.

ATR

[ATR]

FastBill

I am going through this thread piece by piece.

You asked about cutting clip without having to use your enabling/disabling of tracks procedure. That does not sound quite right...so, a brief pause to explore that thought.

If you have a clip on video track 1 and another on video track 2 directly above and you want to split only one of the clips, you place your CTI (Timeline Indicator) at the point of the cut, highlight (click on) only the clip to be split, then hit the Split Clip icon. That will cut only the clip that is highlighted, not through both at the location of the CTI. (When a Timeline clip is highlighted, it is has a deep violet-like color.)

Give that a try as I check out details given in the rest of the posts in this thread.

Let me know if I have misunderstood your description or question in this once case.

To be continued....

ATR

(A lesser appreciated way to split a clip is via the Razor Tool. Once there was an icon for that, but that disappeared. BUT, you can still use it by hitting "c" on the main keyboard. Your cursor will turn into a razor blade that you can apply to the clip for splitting purposes. BUT, remember to hit the "v" on the main keyboard to change your cursor from razor blade back to selection tool so that you do not "over split".)

[fastbill]

Hi, ATR --

I appreciate your thinking about my main issue with multicam editing. In the meantime, I've successfully captured and edited a second 2-camera project. I discovered independently the "split clip" solution that you described in your most recent post. Not only did I need to split one track but not the other, I actually found it necessary to unlink the video and audio in Track 2 because I wanted to enable/disable only the video while keeping the T2 audio enabled throughout the movie. At one point (though I don't know how), I found myself staring at the Razor Blade cursor. Online Help for PE7 didn't mention that cursor anywhere that I could find, but since it's the same as Final Cut Pro I knew what its purpose was. (BTW, Final Cut Pro also has a "double-razor-blade" cursor that splits all tracks at once. Does PE7 have something similar?)

Moreover, this second program was a lecture in which the speaker occasionally showed PowerPoint slides. Since I had to pan and tilt the camera from the podium to the projection screen (for PowerPoint) and then back again (ugly!), I decided to create a Freeze Frame of each PowerPoint slide, move the FF to V3, increase its duration, and Cross-Dissolve into and out of it. Once I figured out this workflow, it went pretty quickly through a 49-minute shoot.

For these PowerPoint slides, I dragged the "Cross-Dissolve" transition to both the beginning and the end. Would "Fade In" and "Fade Out" have achieved the same effect? (If not, what's the difference?)

And, because I often needed to Enable and Disable V2, I created a Keyboard Shortcut (E) for that menu item. Really sped things up!

I'm tempted to start the original project over again, create a new project, re-capture my two camera tapes, and see if editing will be successful as it was in the second project.

Thanks again,
FastBill

[ATR]

FastBill,

Your successful second project was good news.

Based on that experience, I would encourage you to try redoing the first to see if the first project works the second time around. If it should not, then we have to make a closer comparison between the two projects to try to figure out why one worked and one ran into problems.

You can do it. Good luck.

ATR

[fastbill]

Thanks, ATR. I'll try to find time over this weekend to redo the first project, and let you know the outcome.

--FastBill

[fastbill]

Success :-)! I started all over again, created a new project, and re-captured the two camera tapes. Everything worked normally, and I was able to complete the edit and burn a DVD.

I still have the mystery about F: vs. G:, so I'll open a new thread to discuss that question.

Thanks again for your assistance!

FastBill

[ATR]

Congratulations on your success.

I have started with the easier of the questions in your other thread, namely trying to assure you that you are dealing with DV AVI, and probably there is no codec issue.

I am thinking about what you have written regarding your drive lettering and Premiere Elements Organizer and trying to work through thoughts to explain what is happening and suggest corrective actions.

Wish me luck.

ATR