Poor Quality DVD Rendering from HD Source - Help!

[shiskowd]

Newb who's having some issues rendering a good quality DVD using PE 3.0.2. Here is a summary of my workflow:

- Video recorded on a Sony HDV prosumer 1080i 3CCD camera (don't know the exact model as it's my churches and I don't have it at the moment - maybe a HVRZ1U).
- Video captured to PE project set for HDV 1080i 30 (Sony 60i)
- Capture occurs without issue - Video clip reviewed in media list or in timeline looks great.
- Minimal editing in the timeline - add a few titles and clean up the start and end of the clip - test clip is only 5 minutes long
- In the 'Create DVD' mode in PE, I can preview the DVD - looks great
- I 'burn' a DVD to a folder (4.7GB) - as the clip is short, the default highest bit rate (8.0 Mbps) is used. The output preset selection is NSTC_Widescreen_Dolby DVD.
- PE renders the file without issue - takes about 20 minutes for the 5 minute clip
- I use Nero to burn the created DVD files to a DVD
- When I play back the DVD in any television, the output quality is horrible. The video is fuzzy, almost looks out of focus. The color rendering is poor as well. When I play back the DVD files on my computer (not the burned DVD) the quality is similar - much worse that the DVD preview that PE provides.

Any ideas? One friend suggested the DVD rendering feature in PE is junk and that I should output a high quality Windows Media file out of PE and use a better DVD creater to render the file.

Any ideas?

[ATR]

The following information is found in FAQs for Premiere Elements 3 over at the Premiere Elements User to User Forum at Adobe.

I would strongly urge you to downsample HDV for editing as detailed in the first link below and then let us know if that made a difference in your end product DVD-VIDEO. DVD-VIDEO is 720 x 480 pixels, not the full 1920 x 1080 pixels of 1080i. What kind of a TV are you using to watch your DVD-VIDEO? It is “upsampling your DVD-VIDEO with the newer technology that has come out? What does the picture look like when you playback store purchased standard DVD-VIDEO on that same TV?

What is best way to downsample HDV for editing in Premiere Elements?
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc434fa

Working with HDV
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc1c8d8

Just to be sure that neither one of us is taking any thing for granted, please find out the model of the camcorder recording the video and type of connection between camcorder and computer. Please get back to us with this information as well as the results from in-camera downsample of the HDV for editing. Why not try Burn to Disc with Premiere Elements 3.0.2? Does your Premiere Elements 3.0.2 recognize your DVD burner?


Suggested Workflow:
Downsample HDV in camera
Using Firewire connection for camcorder and computer, capture as DV AVI using your Premiere Elements 3.0.2 with the Project Preset of NTSC DV Widescreen
From Timeline (after edits if necessary), export as DVD-VIDEO to DVD disc (NTSC DV Widescreen). I would use the Burn to Disc route, but there should be no reason why you could not Burn to Folder, followed by burning the folder's VIDEO_TS folder to DVD with the software that came with your DVD burner.

Let us start here and see where that takes us.

ATR

[ATR]

Add on....

If your friend is having troubles with "DVD rendering", please suggest that he/she post with a lot of details, and we can see if you can turn things around for him/her.

ATR

[shiskowd]

ATR,

Thanks for your suggestions. I'm going to try the down sample and see if the results are better.

Some clarification - I was not using the camera to feed the video to my computer (via firewire) but a SONY GV-HD700 playback deck. This functions exactly like a HDV Sony camera (you can even set the iLink to down sample as suggested in the forum). I have down sampled with the same HDV camera previously with satisfactory results. I was looking for something better by editing the higher definition capture. My DVD setup with DLP projection TV displays commercial DVD-VIDEO just fine.

Premiere Elements 3.0.2 recognizes my DVD burner - I just thought it was more prudent to burn the files than have bad DVD media waist the time involved.

Lastly - I'm seriously considering purchasing a new Sony HDR-SR12 hard disk camera and the lateset Premier Elements 7 to manage the AVCHD format. I know that the 1080P output of the camera will be considerably better than what a conventional DVD can produce but will there be much of an improvement over DV when you're editing this latest HD format with a consumer package such as Premier Elements 7 ???

I'll keep you posted on the down sample work flow.

[ATR]

I will be back with comments shortly, but for now....

Does your version of Nero support burning to Blu-Ray disc? I am assuming that your player supports Blu-Ray disc.

ATR

[shiskowd]

No Blue-Ray in my equipment or near future. Simply looking for a way to get nice, crisp 480i DVD quality from the HDV 1080i that I recorded.

[ATR]

For now, focusing on just what you have, namely Premiere Elements 3.0.2 and your camcorder recording in HDV, the way to go is definitely downsizing the HDV in the camera as described in the FAQ and previous comments. That should work great.

If that does not work, then you might explore downsizing directly from the camera (instead of the dock that you described). From you description, that should not be the issue, but it worth the try to cross the i's and dot the t's.

If that does not work, we can dig deeper into the issues. Comments on AVCHD and Premiere Elements 7 to follow.

ATR

[shiskowd]

Before I re-captured (down-sampled) the video from the HDV playback unit, I tried something my friend had suggested earlier. I exported the video from Premiere Elements 3.0.2 into a Windows Media file as a 1080 60i (1440 x 1080) file. I then used a trial copy of Unlead MovieFactory 6+ to burn this file to a DVD. The results are much improved on the DVD playback - what I had expected for a DVD.

I realize that I didn't need to have Premiere Elements 3.0.2 export a file of that resolution (720 30p would have been sufficient) but it would appear that Premiere Elements 3.0.2 has some issues with it's DVD rendering.

I attached screen captures of the DVD played back for both the Premiere Elements 3.0.2 rendered DVD (1st file) and the Unlead MovieFactory 6+. The difference is very noticable.

I'd rather not have to do this step (time intensive as you need to render the video twice). Any ideas on how to fix Premiere Elements 3.0.2??

[Chuck Engels]

Premiere Elements 3.0.2 is terrible at downconverting HDV to SD video.
Version 7 does a much better job of doing that, many improvements were made.

But, when working with version 3 you really need to downconvert in your camera on capture, or use another program to burn the DVD as you have already done. There is no way to make version 3 downconvert better, you can stop trying ;)

[ATR]

shiskowd

DVD-VIDEO, 720 x 480, 4:3 or 16:9

Downsizing the HD footage in the camcorder, followed by capture into Premiere Elements 3.0.2 for edit and production of DVD-VIDEO format on a DVD disc is the way to go. Eliminating all other variables outside of Premiere Elements 3.0.2 and based on all reports, there is nothing in Premiere Elements 3.0.2 to be "fixed" in this regard. You, yourself, said that you have gotten good results going that route. It would appear that the poor results popped up as you went in the quest to perfect the quality obtained from the route suggested by many, if not all. As I said before, comparing the capture from the camera vs what you described as a "Sony GV-HD700 playback deck" is something to try. I looked up that Sony playback desk, and it turned out to be what Sony calls a "HDV Video Walkman VCR".

HD Formats 1080i

Many HD camcorders record to 1080p, not 1080i which your camcorder does (assumed camcorder Sony HVRZ1U). Old and new versions of Premiere Elements do support 1080i, not 1080p. The default project presets for Premiere Elements include those for 1080i30 and 1080i25, not 1080i60. In Premiere Elements ex. wmv export/advance tab, you can change the 30 to 60. All that being said, the only time that I have seen 1080i60 invoked as a workaround is for those people with camcorders that record to 1080p30. Then the workaround is recording in 1080i60 in these 1080p30 camcorders, import that into Premiere Elements using the 1080i30 project preset, edit that on the Timeline, and then export as 1080i30 via MPEG or WMV. In summary, Premiere Elements can export 1080i, not 1080p. I have found that you CAN import 1080p30 into Premiere Elements, edit it, but can only export as 1080i30. But, here we are talking about 1080i with its sizing of 1440 x 1080 which ends up as 1920 x 1080 with the 16:9 aspect ratio, not 720 x 480 of DVD-VIDEO format on a DVD disc (4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio).

At the onset, it did not sound like any of your players now support 1080i format on a DVD disc. And, from the reports that I have seen, all reports suggest the camcorder downsizing from 1080i to 480i (DVD-VIDEO on a DVD disc).
http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0504/cameracorner.html
Check all the way to the bottom of the review.

But, if Unlead MovieFactory 6+ can downsize 1080i to 480i (in the program, not in the camcorder) to your satisfaction, then go with it. I have doubts about all that on a consistent basis because of the comment made in the review cited above.

Please let us know if any of this helped and let us know what you decide.

ATR