Colors are different across different programs?

[JohnnyB]

Hi, I have noticed that my photos look different when viewing with different programs. I have a Nikon camera and the Nikon viewer matches PSE7 exactly but when I open my images in Windows and view them in "filmstrip" mode, the colors are different, not as saturated and the pictures look a little "hazy", like the levels are incorrect.

This wouldn't be a problem except that my printed pictures (from Costco) look like the Windows version instead of the editing software versions.

Does anyone have any ideas? (my monitor was color calibrated)

Thanks,
John

[JohnnyB]

Update: changing the color settings to "no color management" got the image on screen very close to the printed image ??:confused:

[johnrellis]

Johnny,

It sounds like your Nikon may be set to use the Adobe RGB color profile rather than the sRGB profile? The Adobe RGB profile can reproduce a wider range of colors, but that wider range is really only useful when you do your own printing or you use a high-end printing lab, not for viewing on computer screens or using print processors like Costco.

If your camera was set to Adobe RGB, change it back to sRGB and reset PSE’s Color Settings back to Always Optimize for Color Screens. Then see if new photos have about the same appearance in the Nikon viewer, PSE, Windows, and Costco.

[JohnnyB]

Thanks for the response John. My camera is set up in the sRGB color space.

[Michel B]

Johny, I am not a Nikon user, but you are not the first one to have the same problem: everything you stated indicates pictures taken in aRGB. Which is your Nikon model? I noticed on reviews that on the D90 the custom settings for color space are normally labelled sRGB and aRGB whereas on older models like D80 there are 3 settings, Ia, II and IIIa, with II being aRGB... Can you check your exif data?

[johnrellis]

Perhaps you could post a problem photo on www.pixentral.com (http://www.pixentral.com) (free). That way we could double-check the photo's metadata.

[JohnnyB]

Thanks for the help guys. My camera is a Nikon D80 and it was set to mode 3a which is sRGB This is a picture of my dog. She is mostly brown, which is how the photo printed and how she looks in windows. She appears more red/yellow in PSE and Nikon view "UNLESS" I turn of color management in PSE, then she appears normal.

http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1LYthCECqz5Zu1TC37apSeEoIXjlS0

[johnrellis]

To test my understanding: The photo’s colors look more accurate in Windows and printed by Costco than in the Nikon viewer and PSE (with color management turned on). (Very pretty dog!) And I think you’re on Windows XP, based on your comment about filmstrip mode.

I examined the photo’s metadata, and it is indeed tagged sRGB (it’s always good to double-check).

This all points to a problem with your display’s calibration. The Nikon viewer and PSE are color-managed, which means they use the display’s color profile (created by your display calibration) and the color profile attached to a photo to show the photo’s colors more accuratedly. Windows Explorer and Picture and Fax Viewer on XP are not color-managed – they ignore any profiles attached to the display and photo and send the color numbers in the photo directly to the display.

So when you turn off color management in PSE and observe that the colors then look like they do in Windows Explorer, and that those colors are more true, then it’s very likely that your monitor isn’t well-calibrated.

Which calibrator did you use? Perhaps you should recalibrate.

[Codebreaker]

The answer surely lies within the Colour Management process.

You say you have calibrated your monitor - how have you done this; did you create a profile using a hardware device?

To have images correctly rendered on screen you need a colour managed program. PS Elements is colour managed and you must turn it on; choose either Optimise for Screen or Print; it wont matter which because your camera image contains a profile which is what will be used.

Most Internet Browsers are not colour managed and you may experience some colour shift when viewing images in these.

Contrary to popular belief Windows Pic and Fax Viewer is colour managed but there is a difference. Whereas PS Elements will use your Monitor Profile ( assuming you made one) Windows uses the default sRGB profile and if your monitor is not too close to sRGB then you may notice a colour shift again.

The only real program you can believe that renders images correctly is something like PSE or similar and you must turn on Colour Mangement.

Colin

[johnrellis]

Contrary to popular belief Windows Pic and Fax Viewer is colour managed but there is a difference. ... Windows uses the default sRGB profile

Fascinating. I just did an experiment that confirms that, both for XP Picture and Fax Viewer and for filmstrip mode in XP Explorer. But I can't find any authoritative reference at Microsoft.com or elsewhere that documents this. I'm very curious -- where/how did you learn that?

For Johhny's problem though, the evidence still points to a bad display profile.

[Codebreaker]

John....

I too made several tests that confirm this but if you want take a look at the MS Colour Applet which you can download from MS you'll get the official word. It works with WinXP but not Vista. Within the Readme file there is confirmation that Win Pic and Fax is colour managed along with Microsoft Office Products - which I've also tested. Note: this is for display purposes only.

Win Vista is different from XP since you can have more control over the default profile and rendering intents.

I would still agree that the original OPs problem sounds like a bad Display Profile.

Colin

[JohnnyB]

Thanks for the great help guys. My monitor was calibrated 3 years ago by someone my wife works with. That person is since gone and because I wasnt there when it happened, I don't know how they did it.

My plan is to obtain a color management device this week (Spyder2 I'm thinking) and do it myself. I'll post back with the results.

Thanks again,
John

[johnrellis]

John,

You can do a quick check that the display profile is the culprit simply by removing its association with your display:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/942632

Then all the programs should show the same colors.

Calibrating your display is always a good thing to do, but if you're happy with the results of removing the current profile, you may decide it's not worthwhile.

[johnrellis]

If you want take a look at the MS Colour Applet which you can download from MS you'll get the official word. … Within the Readme file there is confirmation that Win Pic and Fax is colour managed along with Microsoft Office Products - which I've also tested.
Thanks much – I have the control-panel applet on my XP machine, but obviously I didn’t read the Readme very carefully. It’s mildly curious that under the author’s definition of “color managed”, it’s ok for an application to ignore the display’s profile and assume sRGB.

I just tested a bunch of applications on my Vista SP1 machine, and the results are interesting:

Applications that are fully color-managed (using both the image and display profiles):
Windows Live Photo Gallery, Windows Photo Gallery (sic), Safari 3.2, Photoshop Elements 6/7, Nikon Scan 4
Applications that use the image profile but ignore the display profile, presumably assuming sRGB:
Windows Explorer, Office 2007, Irfanview 4.2, Faststone 3.6
Applications that ignore both the image and display profiles:

Internet Explorer 7, Windows Paint, QuickTime PictureViewer 7.5, Windows Movie Maker 6.0
I wonder why Office 2007 ignores the display profile? The Vista Windows Color System is supposed to make it easy to do full color management.