confused

[acarcifi]

I'm still a little confused on organizing/saving photos. When i download RAW pics from my memory card, open up my RAW editor in PSE 6, make my changes (adjust sharpness, etc) and hit done. By hitting 'done' instead of 'save as', does this overwrite my original RAW file or will i have both original and edited copies on my harddrive? I understand that if i hit 'save as' i can change the file name and have both copies.

I've also read that it's best to convert my RAW files to .DNG files since in future versions of PSE (by future author may have meant 10-15 years down the road), support for my camera RAW may cease. .DNG will be a format i can carry on thru future versions of PSE or thru other Adobe software.

[Codebreaker]

Raw files never get overwritten by Elements. All processing steps are stored in the Database or in a Sidecar XMP file. If you are backing up your RAW images you should backup the RAW database or generate XMP files which can be backed up.

As for the RAW to DNG debate - personally I don't think its an issue. While RAW formats are proprietary there are many different programs that will read them and who's to say that DNG will be around for very long anyway. Its not widely adopted even though its an open standard. Cameras that produce DNG directly are few and far between.

Maybe there'll be a yet another different open standard in a few years!! Its a guessing game.

The more relevant question would be what is our PC going to be like in the future and will it run any of the current programs we have. Somewhere along the line we'll have to upgrade everything anyway. But for now I'll stick with RAW.

Colin

[acarcifi]

Thanks for the reply. So, i'm thinking i'll have 3 files saved. My original RAW picture, my edited RAW and then in order to use any further touch up options offered by PSE, i would have to save my edited RAW as a TIFF or JPEG and use the PSE editor. Am i following the hierarchy correctly?

[Codebreaker]

Not quite correct. You will always have just one RAW file.

Processing changes are stored seperately. They could just be in the Elements Database or you could set it up to produce a SideCar file (XMP). The XMP file doesn't have any of your image information - only the processing changes e.g increase in saturation or exposure; in other words what you did with the sliders

(The option of Database or XMP file is controlled in the ACR panel using the Preferences button at the top or press Ctrl+k . Look at the top most option box)

When you open the RAW file next time, Elements opens the RAW file and then, either looks in the RAW database or the corresponding XMP file to find out what you did with it. These steps then get re-played to show you the final image.

Any other creative work using Elements features will need to be saved, as you say, in a TIF, PSD, JPEG or format of your choice.

So, You may have just two files. RAW + TIF -with processing info in the database. Of you may have three files RAW+XMP+TIF.

Colin

[acarcifi]

Ok, so i make my changes to my RAW file and the changes are stored in an XMP file.

So if i want to convert the file to a TIFF or JPEG for further changes, does PSE typically (or automatically) bring up my edited RAW image? Do i have the option to bring up my original unedited RAW ?

Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions Colin. I've been here a short time but noticed your name is a staple among the responders here.

Al

[Codebreaker]

Al....

After you've processed your RAW image you can do a couple of things.

1. You can click on the Done button. This stores the processing steps (in database or XMP) and then closes the image.

When you open the RAW image again, you see it with all the processing you've done previously.

If you want to go back to the Original as it came out of the camera, then you need to reset all the sliders back to their defaults. You can either...
a) hold down the Alt key see the Cancel button change to Reset - and click on this.

or

b) Use the Tab at the top right of the Basic Panel and select Camera Raw Defaults.

2. Another thing to consider is when you first process the RAW image - i.e move the sliders - you can then open this in Elements in two ways...

a) Click on the Open Image button,which will then take you into the Editor with all the processing changes you've made AND it will store all these changes (database or XMP)

or

b) Hold down Alt key and see the Open Image button change to Open Copy. This means the Editor opens with the processed image but NO processing changes are stored away - i.e. it leaves your RAW image as it was. If its the first time then its as it came from the camera.

Colin

[ladybug]

Colin, i have a point and shoot camera but that was some very clear and informative inforamation , thanks you.

[Jeff Perry]

Colin, your very thorough explanation brings a few questions to mind that frankly I should have thought about long ago. First, I use PSE6, CS4 and LR2 and Bridge CS4 on the Windows XP platform. My questions...

If I choose not to store the Elements (or CS4)-launched ACR instructions for a given RAW or JPG image in a sidecar file, where is the "database" file kept (what is the name and in what folder)?

Is it the same database for JPGs and RAW files (the same database file)?

Is it a database created and managed by ACR or by the host app, e.g, Orgnaizer or Bridge?

It occurs to me that although I routinely back up all my image files, unless I am in LR2, I almost always start my editing in ACR, and move to PSE6/CS3. Once there I save the file in the appropriate format when I'm done, and then that image file will ultimately be backed up.

But what about my initial ACR "edits"? Assuming I back up the original ACR'd) image file, I really haven't backed-up the ACR instructions, have I (unless the were saved in an XLM file, in which case I would have deliberatly backed them up in the process)?

It seems like all my ACR adjustments are "recognized" by LR2/ACR/Bridge/PSE/CS4, regardless of which app the adjustments were made in, so there must be a common databse link in there somewhere.

thanks


Jeff

[Codebreaker]

Jeff....

I don't have a definitive answer for you because I never went any further than PS CS. However....

1. Elements and PS CS share a common data base which is located in C:/.......User Name/Application Data/CameraRaw. With my PSE6 and PS CS (ACR2.4) this seems to be a one-way sharing. Changes made in PS CS seem to be picked up in PSE6 but not the other way around. This could be due to the mismatch in ACR revisions.

2. The Database is updated by ACR

3. LR has its own database which ACR doesn't see. LR will always store processing info in the database. The production of an XMP is optional but if you do this you still get the changes stored in the database as well.

4. XMP files appear to override the database if they exist and this would mean you could share processing between LR and ACR.

5. I don't know if the Elements Backup also includes the CamerRaw database - one would hope so. If you are doing your own backup with another program you should include this.

6. LR backups include all information.

Hope this helps

Colin