Costco Printing Help

[japan05]

Can someone give me some advice on how to prevent Costco from trimming down pictures that I send there for printing. For example, a 4X6 always seems to be missing edges when I pick them up versus what I see on my computer screen in Photoshop. An immediate response would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!

[Byron Gale]

japan05,

Even if you give my Costco a perfect 4x6 ratio image, they still crop a few pixels and then enlarge. I have asked them to not do this, but they claim to have no control.

All you can do is pre-shape your images to the correct aspect ratio so that any irrational cropping they do is minimized.

Byron

[mljrbg]

I have had ongoing problems with Costco cutting off edges. The manager in the photo department told me they are having meetings tomorrow and Thursday regarding a "glitch" in their system. She said they were having multiple problems with orders. I will be talking to her over the weekend or whenever her next shift is after Thursday. I'll post any info that she gives me.

In the meantime here is the link to the same question (http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40752) when I asked it not too long ago.

Stay tuned!!

Mary Lou

[japan05]

Thank you very much for the responses! It sounds like they have an internal issue and we just have to wait and see. It is so irrating to get those pictures back with the edges cut-off. I really appreciate the responses!

[Jeff Perry]

One of the major problems, as has been mentioned already, when the aspect ratios of the original (uncropped) image and the desired print size are different. The photo processor, whether it is Costco, Walgreens or even our own Photoshop Elements "Scale to Fit Paper" settings, will all have to make a judgement about expanding the image to fill the paper, thus losing two edges.

This is no different than we expereienced in the "days of film". You may not have realized it but if you look at an 4X6 print and compare it to the actual negative, you will frequently find major portions of the image cropped away. And you always thought it was your bad picture taking when the print came back with the top of Uncle Henry's head chopped off the family portrait!

Another problem that sometimes occurs, and is also experienced on some home photo printers is "full bleed" expansion. In order for a photo printer to print all the way to the edges of your paper (aka borderless prints), the printer driver will expand the image to beyond the edge of the paper, thus "over printing beyond the edge to ensure 100% coverage (no tiny white edge left behind that you have to try and cut off with a paper trimmer).

I suspect that the same thing may be happening in the automated production print systems in play at Costco and others.

You can help solve the first problem by cropping to the correct aspect ratio of the paper upon which the image is to be printed. The second problem is obviously beyond your direct control, and complaining about it may help.

Also try not to crop too close, so if there is any "expansion" introduced duiring the print process, you won't be losing poor Uncle Henry's hair piece again.

Jeff

[Barb O]

Another problem that sometimes occurs, and is also experienced on some home photo printers is "full bleed" expansion. In order for a photo printer to print all the way to the edges of your paper (aka borderless prints), the printer driver will expand the image to beyond the edge of the paper, thus "over printing beyond the edge to ensure 100% coverage (no tiny white edge left behind that you have to try and cut off with a paper trimmer).

I suspect that the same thing may be happening in the automated production print systems in play at Costco and others.

.... try not to crop too close, so if there is any "expansion" introduced duiring the print process, you won't be losing poor Uncle Henry's hair piece again.

Jeff

Jeff, that is a really good description. My experience says that yes this expansion does happen for photos that I and others have had printed at Costco.

In the very first digital photography class I took, the instructor demonstrated cropping to 4x6 proportions using Irfanview software but cropping very closely to the edge of the desired print image and then printing at Costco. In one photo the very top of a mountain is cut off in another photo it is a persons head that is cut. The solution is not to crop quite as close to the edge of what I actually want printed (as Jeff mentioned).

My personal experience at Costco has been that the edge missing from the 4x6 aspect ratio photo file I submitted has been what I expect for normal borderless overscan/edge bleed.

[mljrbg]

Barb, how then do you crop borderless or border? If I am doing an inside border I assume that is the same as borderless. My problem is figuring how much more of the picture to leave when cropping. I have started to print only one image and then come home and try to adjust it before printing another copy which translates to throwing $$ away!! I print all of my pics at Costco.

I got a lot of input from Villagers who tried to help me with this problem in my original thread. I am very appreciative of any and all suggestions on this topic. Obviously I am not the only one have problems with Costco!!

Mary Lou

[Barb O]

Mary Lou

I have only printed borderless at Costco or other development places. So I can't make any observations about printing with borders.

Plus I don't really have any precise formula for knowing exactly how much to leave at the edge: it was just an observation not to crop to the very edge of what we wanted visible and we never did any measurements.

Do you have experiences where Costco chopped an inconsistent amount of the edge of different photos when you submitted a batch of photo files that had been cropped to 4x6 (if that was the size you were printing)?

[mljrbg]

Barb, it has been pretty consistent. They gave me their spec sheet and said I shouldn't have a problem if I used their specs. I still am having problems so I will talk to the manager and see if they came up with any answers in their corporate meetings.

Thanks for your input. I'll post back when I hear from Costco. I thought maybe there was a magic answer out there somewhere!!

Thanks again.

Mary Lou

[Barb O]

Barb, it has been pretty consistent. They gave me their spec sheet and said I shouldn't have a problem if I used their specs. I still am having problems so I will talk to the manager and see if they came up with any answers in their corporate meetings.

Mary Lou

I am curious what that Costco spec sheet says. Is it sufficiently short for you to post some information here?

[frank abramonte]

japan05, This photo is 4 x 6 with 2 pixel rules spaced 1//8" apart.
Either download this photo of make one of your own.
Have it printed at Costco both in normal and borderless.
When you get your print back you will be able to see exactly what part of the photo is cut off.
In the future keep your live (important) matter within these lines and you should not have any problems.


http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/17KuJTO9UhsR3tPIIisLGXSgpDav0_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=17KuJTO9UhsR3tPIIisLGXSgpDav0)

[mljrbg]

Barb, here is what they gave me:

We print fully automatic utilizing the auto-correction feature of the printer. Desired color corrections or custom cropping should be done using imaging-editing program such as Adobe Photoshop and saved as 8 bit - sRBG jpegs on CD. We cannot print 16 bit files. Our Noritsu QSS 3101 Printer prints at 320 ppi, images should be sized accordingly.

4x6 1280 x 1920
5x7 1600 x 2240
8x10 2560 x 3200
11x14 3520 x 4480

While typing this I looked back and the printer at "my" Costco is Noritsu QSS 3111. Would that have anything to do with it?

I also talked to the manager at a different Costco who knows Photoshop (I have PSE6) and she said any edits should be made by cropping not resizing.

Thanks.

Mary Lou

[mljrbg]

Frank, did you use the grid to make the lines on your photo. I want to try it on the photo that I have with the inside border. I'm not sure how to do it.

Thanks.

ML

[frank abramonte]

ML, use the rule tool. Select the rule tool and set the pixels to 2 px.
Using the rulers around the photo as a guide draw a rule every 1/8". If you hold down the shift key you will be able to draw a straight rule.
Repeat every 1/8" on top, bottom and both sides.
If you have a light photo you can draw black rules or any color that will be easy to see.
post back if you need additional info.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/17mWJM9bOo8dWmMrmvZzUvJ2FgQ0_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=17mWJM9bOo8dWmMrmvZzUvJ2FgQ0)

[JEGavlas]

japan05, This photo is 4 x 6 with 2 pixel rules spaced 1//8" apart.
Either download this photo of make one of your own.
Have it printed at Costco both in normal and borderless.
When you get your print back you will be able to see exactly what part of the photo is cut off.
In the future keep your live (important) matter within these lines and you should not have any problems.

Thanks Frank

I have experienced the same problems discussed and have tried several methods to figure out what Costco was doing. I never thought of the way you have shown.

[Barb O]

While typing this I looked back and the printer at "my" Costco is Noritsu QSS 3111. Would that have anything to do with it?

Mary Lou

It might make a slight difference. However, I was reading that some Noritsu 3111 printers print at 320 ppi but other newer Noritsu printers with the 3111 model number (or 3111 printers with newer software) print at 300 ppi.

So that probably does complicate your determining exactly how your photos will print. Therefore it seems that using the lines on the photo as demonstrated by Frank may be the most pragmatic approach. If your Costco location has more than one of these Noritsu 3111 printers, you might ask them how to specify which printer will be used for your order.

P.S. I looked up my Costco and the store closest to me shows a Noritsu 3411 plus other unidentified printers. However other Costco stores in my area show as having a Noritsu 3111.

[isobutene]

I have gone to the Costco operator in the store and told them to make, in my case, a print with the long dimension 10 inches and let the other dimension fall where it will , for a nominal 8 x 10 print. I have told them not to trim the print but give it to me as it came from the processor.

Speaking to them quietly in the store when it was not too busy they have done that. I then trim the print myself. This has worked at a two Costco stores.

Irv

[isobutene]

I have gone to the Costco operator in the store and told them to make, in my case, a print with the long dimension 10 inches and let the other dimension fall where it will , for a nominal 8 x 10 print. I have told them not to trim the print but give it to me as it came from the printer.

Speaking to them quietly in the store when it was not too busy they have done that. I then trim the print myself. This has worked at a two Costco stores.

Irv

[mljrbg]

Frank, thanks for the info. I am going to try that on portrait and landscape. I'll be back with the info when I get it.

Barb, thanks. I think they only have one printer but I will check and see.

Irv, I do 4x6 prints which come out of the printer already cut. Thanks for your input. It seems like a reasonable solution to the problem.

I'm anxious to see what the manager says after the meetings today and tomorrow.

Thanks again.

Mary Lou

[Ric Cisson]

Hi all, been super busy and away for awhile. See the same issue with Costco is ongoing. I think if you go back to my post that Mary Lou referenced earlier in this thread, I tried to assist up to a point in then I got drawn away locally. But let me chime in here and try to get the discussion going down the right track. Behind the scenes of all minilab print processor is a driver software. While, depending on what upgrade each Costco has currently, most of the drivers are fairly consistent. As I noted in my referenced post, I have been able to come away with the desired crop, by first using the crop tool, not marquee, not resize, set to the desired pixel dimensions set at the output resolution. So for example, if my local Costco called for a 4x6 @ 1280 x 1848 pixels @ 320 pixels per inch, I would set my crop tool @ 1280 X 1848 pixels @ 320 pixels. Now, and while you are all discussing some bleeding of the image, there will be some bleeding and some of the edges will be lost in the process. What you have to take into consideration in preparing your files is just how much bleed loss you can tolerate. This is where, and this becomes something less than an exact science at this point, with something critical you need to work with your technicians to come to a satisfactory result.

I am not sure what level training your local Costco technicians have had on the minilab processors they work with. I went through 14 days total hands on school with Fuji Film on the Frontier systems, and 10 days total hands on school with Noritsu on their systems, between 2001 and 2007 and everytime a technician came to provide service I would sit with him for as long as he or she would oblige and learn the latest. These systems, are just as much a headache at times for the lab technicians as they are for the customer. And the reason is that not all the lab technicians have the opportunity to attend intensive training on the systems. Usually, at minimum they get maybe one day or 3 at best in rare cases. While Noritsu and Fuji service Costco across the country, most of the time a field technician comes to the Costco to provide training and it is like a crash course and they do not delve into the deep nuts and bolts. But as I said earlier, the "driver" really determines much of what you are experiencing and both Noritsu and Fuji technicians are not normally deep trained on the software, since the software is written by a separate section within the company, thus the technician is there for the hardware and software service comes from another area.

I wish I could sound more positive for you, but that is the case. Again, I have retired from the industry and I took great pains to learn both Fuji and Noritsu systems and it just did not evolve within 24 hours, we are talking years of experience, success and failure, happy customers and unhappy customers.

In summation, and back to your point, start with the crop tool, not the marquee, not resize, not even transform, but start with the crop tool. Get out of the habit of setting the crop tool to inches and use pixels when prepping for Costco. If you start there, then half the frustration is removed. You can then work with your favorite Costco Photo Center to determine just how much is lost from allowable bleed and go from there. I am available to respond to anyones questions and I will try to help as much as I can, but I make no guarentee that what I tell you from here, is necessarily going to provide you with the results you want where you are located. All print processors are unique unto themselves...

[mljrbg]

Ric, how do you crop to 4x6 using pixels instead of inches? When I set the resolution to 320 and then use no restriction when I crop I don't get exactally 4x6.

We will get this settled!! Thanks.

Mary Lou

[frank abramonte]

While I was searching for the Noritsu 3411 and Noritsu 3111 discussion I noticed that Ric Cisson responded to this post.
I still can't understand the reason that Ric gives, although he certainly sounds well informed.

I created a 4 x 6 document to what Ric suggests. I then changed the pixels to inches and found that the document went from 4 x 6 to 4 x 5.775.
Based on this, you can never get a true 4 x 6 print without it being stretched out to 6 and therefore cutting image off the short dimension.
Would making you document 4 x 6 1/4 avoid this?

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1gtZVTcYzXmGmNKdC35rgcB26IwLs_thumb.png (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1gtZVTcYzXmGmNKdC35rgcB26IwLs)

Sounds crazy to me. What Costco’s system is actually doing is changing the aspect ratio, just doesn't sound right.

I also made a chart to see which photo sizes Costco’s size is in proportion to.
The aspect ratio of Costco will not scale proportionally to any photo size.
See chart below.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1u4U3B1d0IAsqLWR2VGAr208z1kmn1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1u4U3B1d0IAsqLWR2VGAr208z1kmn1)

I think that making an image with the rules should give you some idea of what’s happening at Costco. You then may be able to figure out how to set up your document.

[JEGavlas]

Ric, how do you crop to 4x6 using pixels instead of inches? When I set the resolution to 320 and then use no restriction when I crop I don't get exactally 4x6.

We will get this settled!! Thanks.

Mary Lou
You need to use a restriction. Normally you would use 4 in by 6 in you would key in 1228 px by 1842 px with the resolution set at 320. This is what Ric stated 1228 x 1842 pixels @320 ppi in the older discussion. The key is you have to key in the "px" otherwise it will take the system default.

[Ric Cisson]

Whether you realize it or not, you are now beginning to understand. Let my try and put it this way. First of all, let me ask a very simple question. Those of you that have had digital files printed at Costco, either using online service or at the kiosk, or just handing the lab technician your files, have you ever stopped and measured the actual print given back to you? There are too possible obvious answers aside from yes or no. If the answer is yes, what where the physical dimensions of the prints you got back. Were they 4x6 or were they 4 x less than six or less than 4inches x 6 inches. (Answer is dependent on size paper being used in the printer.)? I will wait for a few answers before moving forward.

Note: I am not trying to be funny, I think you are going to find different answers from different people (again, dependent on size paper utilized by printer)

Frank, on the right track, but hold it there, you are close to going too far with your analysis.

So I will check back in a little while.

[mljrbg]

I'll be home early this afternoon and will measure the pics.

Thanks.

ML

[mljrbg]

Ric, my photos print on 4 x 5-15/16 paper. Some of the borders are cut off on 2 sides and some are cut off on all 4 sides. If I do any inside stroke and add a bevel to that stroke, is the bevel inside the margins of the pic or is that the same as adding an outside border?

Thanks.

Mary Lou

[mljrbg]

Frank, I am going to try your suggestion this afternoon and will post it when I am done.

Thanks.

Mary Lou

[frank abramonte]

Mary Lou, knowing that your photos print only 4 x 5 5/16 throws a new light on your printing problem.
I assumed that Costco printed 4 x 6 prints and that the image was expanded beyond the 6 inches.
Do you realize that your paper is 5/8 + inches short, that just isn't right for Costco to print on such short paper. 4 x 6 should be 4 x 6.

I would suggest you speak to the manager to find out why they can't print a full 4 x 6 paper print.
Ask the manager how you can get the full 4 x 6 print they show as being one of the sizes listed in their store.

In the mean time it will be interesting to see how the ruled test print comes out, it may throw some light on a possible solution.
However, no matter what is decided you will still end up with a short print.
Do you have access to another printer?

By the way, is the test print set up as 4 x 6 inches or are you setting it up as Ric explained?

[mljrbg]

Here is the print with the ruled lines. It is set up as 4x6. This is one of the pics I'm having problems with.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1lKJejyTOHMsMMP8duhvgwZlv4dr1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1lKJejyTOHMsMMP8duhvgwZlv4dr1)

I have set my pics up several different ways, including the Costco dimensions, and they still come out wrong. The manager at "my" Costco, how do I say this nicely, is not very knowledgable.

Sorry, I forgot about this and didn't mention it. :o There is another person in the department, who should be manager, and she is very knowledgable. What she came up with was to put my photo on their hard drive and shrink it to 98% and the image came out fine. I then had to trim off the excess paper on their paper cutter. Those measure 5-7/8 x 3-15/16. The manager wasn't too happy she did that for me and she said they are supposed to do that.

Mary Lou, knowing that your photos print only 4 x 5 5/16 throws a new light on your printing problem.

Now I'm really :o:o. This should read 4 x 5-15/16. Sorry Frank. I just corrected my typo in the above post.

Mary Lou

[frank abramonte]

Mary Lou, after viewing your subject I must say you have a tough photo to print. Your photo has very narrow borders at the edges of the document.
The only way you can get these close tolerances would be to print them on regular printing press OR, have it printed on the next larger size paper and then trim it by hand to the final size.
If your satisfied with the outcome and Costco is willing to repeat this last experience each time you want to print then go along with them.

What does the photo with rules look like, if you have a copy please post it.

[mljrbg]

I'm a little confused. The above photo is 4 x 6 with 2 pixel rules spaced 1/8" apart. You have to aee the larger image to see all of the rules. Was I supposed to do something else?

ML

[wendyzine]

I haven't read all the responses, but I'm working on some actions for placing images on larger sheets for Costco and the general concensus seems to be that if you reduce your IMAGE SIZE to 98%, then make your canvas size back to the original print size, nothing will get cut off and if you trim off the white, it will be very minimal amount of trimming.

[mljrbg]

What she came up with was to put my photo on their hard drive and shrink it to 98% and the image came out fine. I then had to trim off the excess paper on their paper cutter. Those measure 5-7/8 x 3-15/16.

Wendy, this part of one of my above posts.

I haven't read all the responses, but I'm working on some actions for placing images on larger sheets for Costco and the general concensus seems to be that if you reduce your IMAGE SIZE to 98%, then make your canvas size back to the original print size, nothing will get cut off and if you trim off the white, it will be very minimal amount of trimming.

Thanks for the info. I scaled the image to 98% and placed it on a 4x6 canvas pixels 1280 x 1920 320ppi. These are Costco's specs. I'm sending it to be printed.

I'll be back later with the results!!

Thank you.

Mary Lou

[Relic]

I've had very good luck printing 6x4 pictures on my Epson Stylus and having them printed at Costco from discs I'd burned. Learned this on the Forum ages ago. Hope it helps you.

Start with a blank white layer measuring 5.85 in. X 3.90 in. Drag & drop your photo then resize it using Transform tools. I use a ppi setting of 280 because it makes the blacks and other dark colors look better to me.

Make sure the paper used in printing is actually 6x4. As an example Kodak
6x4 is really 61/2 x 4.

Good luck.

Relic

[Ric Cisson]

Well, Mary Lou, you have happened upon the secret as it relates to all Digital Minilab print processors. First of all, and it is the nature of the beast here, if the local lab is using 4 inch paper then it is the 6 inch physical dimension length that gets "shortened" physically. If the lab uses 6 inch paper then obviously it is the other physical dimension that gets shortened. There are two factors involved. First and foremost, a factory preset that sets the paper length feed before cutting the sheet that enters into the exposure section. I do not believe, though I could be wrong, that the Costco technician is authorized to go in and tamper with the feed, so there will be, a feed issue, and it will vary from printer to printer. Secondly, if you are bound and determine to use physical dimensions and not pixel dimensions, you will always set yourself up for white edges to trim, whether one side or all four sides. I can't break your habits for you...you have to do it. I have been using pixel dimensions at the output dpi since 2002, never using physical dimensions since. Additionally you are "pushing" the opportunity to zero in on your desired output, further away from you, because the printer processor does not, and I must stress this fact, does not revolve around inches except when it comes to paper width. The feed of the paper is based upon a algorithym that takes into consideration millimeters and pixels. So, I have provided a little working knowledge. Since no two printer processors are idenditical in theory and in reality for that matter, setting up for one machine is not going to necessarily give you the next. I wish I could get everyone to understand this.

So where does this leave us. First, each scenerio as it relates to your local lab is unique unto itself. Franks printer maybe set up different from Mary Lou, mine may be set up different from Franks etc, etc. You must, if you are going to get desired accuracy work with your lab under controlled trial and error, which could take many reprints, and a little money. But I am going to caution you all, you may be chasing rainbows in the process, you can see the end results, but you never really can reach it. Trying to figure out each printer is nearly impossible because of all the different variables that may be involved. Mary Lou and all, for you to really reach the results that you wish to achieve with accuracy, first of all you must understand first and foremost the printer (machine) does not care that you feed it a file that measures 4x6, what matters is that you give it a file that is cropped with the pixel dimensions it requires at the output resolution that it is optimized for, whether 300 ppi or 320 ppi or even in the case of Lightjet or Lamda wide format printers at 200 or 250 ppi, that is all it is important. The next factor is the paper roll width or size. Next is the feed length, and that is in mm. After that comes the software taking over, which no one except for the software engineer, really understands, and finally the cutter within the printer, how it is set up to advance between cuts and again in mm. Finally, within each exposure section of each minilab system your sheet of paper is on a conveyor belt. Enough paper dust accumulates on the belt and the paper slips on the belt. If the belt is dirty your paper may not be exactly spot on centered for the exposure and can be off a silly mm or a few mm.

I wish I had an easy answer for you, I too wish that all printer processors were created under one spec instead of one spec for commercial labs, one spec for Wal-Mart, one spec for Costco, and then the various makes and models that each storefront has, you have other specs that come into play as determined by the manufacture and the corporate hq. It was never easy being in the industry, working as an independent lab and trying to explain to the normal Wal-Mart customer the nuts and bolts. I started out, just as you are trying to figure out and since I did not have any hair to lose, I just sat down and started working with my machines until I found the right combinations to provide my customer base the results they desired on a regular basis. I also worked extremely hard and dedicated much time to each of my customers, I set up classes and conducted those classes to educate my customers as to the peculiar differences between film and digital mini-lab printing.

I encourage each of you out there, to consider what I have offered here, and understand that you have known factors now that come into play. You need also to understand that you must adapt to...each system in each lab that you deal with, not the other way around. Within the adapting part, you must allow for flexibility in your desired results, flexibility in your expectations and finally allowance for the opportunity to learn with your lab technicians how best to achieve a successful finished product. Each mini-lab processor has it's flaws, some start out without flaws but after 100,000 prints flaws can sometimes rear their ugly heads including dirty conveyor belts, or dirty paper paths or dirty paper rollers. All this is thrown into the mix with the variables that I have spoken about.

As I hope you all will come to understand, I got to know my systems, I got to understand them over the years, and at the same time I worked hard to establish customer trust in this technology and I never quit learning, and I never quit sharing. It was and still is a commitment to the industry and my friends in the community. And while I have retired, I still receive calls and I still advise, both my former staff, of which only one is left now and many, too many to count, former customers and friends that I have worked with over the years.

I have posted much over the years, as it involves the many mini-lab printers out there. I have put my experience and knowledge before you and shared as much as I can. I am still involved in the industry, but from another perspective now. Heaven knows where I will end up, but I will always dable in the industry. I am available to answer any of your questions. I hope this further helps.

[JEGavlas]

japan05, This photo is 4 x 6 with 2 pixel rules spaced 1//8" apart.
Either download this photo of make one of your own.
Have it printed at Costco both in normal and borderless.
When you get your print back you will be able to see exactly what part of the photo is cut off.
In the future keep your live (important) matter within these lines and you should not have any problems.


http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/17KuJTO9UhsR3tPIIisLGXSgpDav0_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=17KuJTO9UhsR3tPIIisLGXSgpDav0)

I took this photo to Costco (uploaded) today, Yes, the dimension of paper is 4x5-15/16. And you can see what it cut off, the left side. I scanned this to a pdf at work and sent it home and fixed it up for uploading. The white space was left there on purpose but the print itself had no white space and you can see what got cut out. I can see where Ric is coming from regarding cropping by pixels but it is a hard thing to remember 1228 px by 1842 px or whatever. The only way I will remember is by putting a sticky note on my monitor which I have done. Now that I am closer on understanding what gets cut off I can prepare for that. Actually, nothing noticeble is ever missing but if I gave up on frames because of that. Guess I can try again. Overall I found this a very helpful discussion. Ric knows his stuff! Fortunately the local Costco (the largest one in the world) is two miles away. A Walgreen is closer but they do not do back printing and generall are more expensive. Todays trip for three pictures or $0.51 is definately not a money maker for them but...

Now to figure out how to educate my self concerning pixels.


http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1TuOaEBpetwA4SMyksOkrMBYOOz5F_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1TuOaEBpetwA4SMyksOkrMBYOOz5F)

[frank abramonte]

I'm a little confused. The above photo is 4 x 6 with 2 pixel rules spaced 1/8" apart. You have to aee the larger image to see all of the rules. Was I supposed to do something else?ML

Mary Lou, was this in reply to my post, if yes I was referring to the thin frames. If you lose a fraction off a thin frame it will be noticeable, whereas, if you lose a fraction off a wide frame it will be either be less or not noticed.
I didn't mean to confuse you, just pointing out the tight tolerances needed to print your photo accurately.
Is this the document you are having printed at Costco?

Just noticed Joe from Hillsboro's post above. Perhaps you can use the into to achieve your goals at Costco.

[mljrbg]

No problem Frank. I am the most untechie person in the world so it doesn't take much to confuse me!!

I can't thank everyone enough for troubleshooting this. I may not be a techie but I don't give up easily!!

Between Ric pounding into my head "think in pixels not inches" and Frank's rule lines and Wendyzine's post above I think I solved the puzzle (for now anyway!!). This is what I did.

I'm working in PSE6.

Open picture (mine was 8x10 300ppi).

Cropped it to 4 x 6 and changed it to 320ppi per Costco's specs. This made the actual pic 1920 x 1280 pixels again per Costco's specs. (I had done this before but with the border it still didn't print correctly.)

Open a new layer under the pic layer. This layer will automatically be the same size. Fill this layer with white.

Highlight the pic layer > Image > Resize > Scale > at the top fill in 98% for width and height will automatically be the same. Make sure constrain proportions is checked. There will now be a white border around the pic.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1w9Ls8itvgUNJR17jG1KwKXDxvvER01_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1w9Ls8itvgUNJR17jG1KwKXDxvvER01)

I then had the pic printed at Costco and it worked!! My border was not cutoff!! There was about 1/16" white on one side which I cut off. YEA!!

I hope this helps anyone who has been having problems with printing their pictures. Will it work for everyone...I hope so.

I can't thank Ric and Frank enough for all of their help and spending so much time on this. Thanks to Wendyzine for posting today which put the missing piece in the puzzle. Thanks to everyone else for helping.

Japan05, I hope this helps your problem too.

Hopefully this will continue to work and I won't be back with more questions on this topic!!!!!

[wendyzine]

I am going to write an action for you guys to do this to a 4x6. I'll be back in a day or two when it's ready.

Wendy
No problem Frank. I am the most untechie person in the world so it doesn't take much to confuse me!!

I can't thank everyone enough for troubleshooting this. I may not be a techie but I don't give up easily!!

Between Ric pounding into my head "think in pixels not inches" and Frank's rule lines and Wendyzine's post above I think I solved the puzzle (for now anyway!!). This is what I did.

I'm working in PSE6.

Open picture (mine was 8x10 300ppi).

Cropped it to 4 x 6 and changed it to 320ppi per Costco's specs. This made the actual pic 1920 x 1280 pixels again per Costco's specs. (I had done this before but with the border it still didn't print correctly.)

Open a new layer under the pic layer. This layer will automatically be the same size. Fill this layer with white.

Highlight the pic layer > Image > Resize > Scale > at the top fill in 98% for width and height will automatically be the same. Make sure constrain proportions is checked. There will now be a white border around the pic.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1w9Ls8itvgUNJR17jG1KwKXDxvvER01_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1w9Ls8itvgUNJR17jG1KwKXDxvvER01)

I then had the pic printed at Costco and it worked!! My border was not cutoff!! There was about 1/16" white on one side which I cut off. YEA!!

I hope this helps anyone who has been having problems with printing their pictures. Will it work for everyone...I hope so.

I can't thank Ric and Frank enough for all of their help and spending so much time on this. Thanks to Wendyzine for posting today which put the missing piece in the puzzle. Thanks to everyone else for helping.

Japan05, I hope this helps your problem too.

Hopefully this will continue to work and I won't be back with more questions on this topic!!!!!

Mary Lou

"Think in pixels not inches" Ric Cisson

[Ric Cisson]

Mary Lou, sounds good. I know that sometime in the not too distant future that "Think in pixels not inches" will come naturally. Gosh, I am honored that I am quoted.;)

[Byron Gale]

Ric,

Many thanks for offering the perspective of your experience!!!

Byron

[Ric Cisson]

Byron, not a problem, always willing to provide insight whenever I can assist. By the way...are you going to get a make over after Halloween?:)

[wendyzine]

You need also to understand that you must adapt to...each system in each lab that you deal with, not the other way around. Within the adapting part, you must allow for flexibility in your desired results, flexibility in your expectations and finally allowance for the opportunity to learn with your lab technicians how best to achieve a successful finished product.

I cannot agree with you more. I've been working with scrapbookers for 2 years now on how to prepare photo books for printing. Few want to take the time to learn how to create their designs in a way that will allow necessary flexibility in the printing process, let alone take the responsibility to make sure that their pages are submitted to the various printers' specifications. I know it's not always easy stuff to understand, and the reality is that many print consumers don't care if they see some white lines or have things exact, but with my background, I know how easy it is to do things so that you are guaranteed a flawless-looking result even with variations in machinery, profiles, size, etc.

It's nice to hear from someone else with a passion for such things.

[wendyzine]

I've made an action doing exactly the steps you described. Hopefully this will help. I forgot to include instructions, but basically, open your photo, Choose either Horizontal or Vertical, and play PART 1 of the action. When it stops, resize/reposition your photo so it is cropped like you want it to be. Then, run PART 2 to resize at 98% and add the white border.

I haven't had my action testers test this one, but hopefully it will work for you guys. If not, feel free to PM me and I'll see if I can fix it. It will be free through the following link for a few days, but once my team does test it, I will move it to my shop. :) Enjoy, and hope it helps!

http://www.4shared.com/file/68256498/dc292f95/WZ_Costco4x6.html

Wendy

No problem Frank. I am the most untechie person in the world so it doesn't take much to confuse me!!

I can't thank everyone enough for troubleshooting this. I may not be a techie but I don't give up easily!!

Between Ric pounding into my head "think in pixels not inches" and Frank's rule lines and Wendyzine's post above I think I solved the puzzle (for now anyway!!). This is what I did.

I'm working in PSE6.

Open picture (mine was 8x10 300ppi).

Cropped it to 4 x 6 and changed it to 320ppi per Costco's specs. This made the actual pic 1920 x 1280 pixels again per Costco's specs. (I had done this before but with the border it still didn't print correctly.)

Open a new layer under the pic layer. This layer will automatically be the same size. Fill this layer with white.

Highlight the pic layer > Image > Resize > Scale > at the top fill in 98% for width and height will automatically be the same. Make sure constrain proportions is checked. There will now be a white border around the pic.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1w9Ls8itvgUNJR17jG1KwKXDxvvER01_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1w9Ls8itvgUNJR17jG1KwKXDxvvER01)

I then had the pic printed at Costco and it worked!! My border was not cutoff!! There was about 1/16" white on one side which I cut off. YEA!!

I hope this helps anyone who has been having problems with printing their pictures. Will it work for everyone...I hope so.

I can't thank Ric and Frank enough for all of their help and spending so much time on this. Thanks to Wendyzine for posting today which put the missing piece in the puzzle. Thanks to everyone else for helping.

Japan05, I hope this helps your problem too.

Hopefully this will continue to work and I won't be back with more questions on this topic!!!!!

Mary Lou

"Think in pixels not inches" Ric Cisson

[JEGavlas]

I've made an action doing exactly the steps you described. Hopefully this will help. I forgot to include instructions, but basically, open your photo, Choose either Horizontal or Vertical, and play PART 1 of the action. When it stops, resize/reposition your photo so it is cropped like you want it to be. Then, run PART 2 to resize at 98% and add the white border.

I haven't had my action testers test this one, but hopefully it will work for you guys. If not, feel free to PM me and I'll see if I can fix it. It will be free through the following link for a few days, but once my team does test it, I will move it to my shop. :) Enjoy, and hope it helps!

http://www.4shared.com/file/68256498/dc292f95/WZ_Costco4x6.html

Wendy
Thanks Wendy

[Byron Gale]

Byron...are you going to get a make over after Halloween?:)Ric,

I got a makeover for Halloween!! :D

Byron

[Ric Cisson]

Byron, no offense, but you're scaring my cat (yes I am a cat person and proud to be):D

[mljrbg]

Wendy, thank you so much for creating this action. It is so nice to know that this problem is solved. Now on to the next problem!!

[Ric Cisson]

Wendy, the key, I learned when I brought in our first digital mini-lab in 2002, is understanding that the world changed. If you remember back then the big two, Kodak and Fuji, began pushing digital at a serious pace. It was so rapid that many got left behind. In 2005, they (Kodak and Fuji) began to realize that it was necessary to educate the consumers that were "left behind" and poured resources into the local labs to help educate the consumers. I could not wait for them as my customer base was so intimidated by digital, I had to extend myself beyond my responsibilities to reach out into the community and provide the education necessary to bring them along. One of the hardest things to convey was that the responsibility of "getting it right" was no longer just owned by the lab, but co-owned by the consumer and the lab. Once, and forgive me for the way I say this, my customers were "reprogrammed" the business took off. But, the responsibility is continually evolving more and more upon the consumer, the photographer, and too, more and more on the lab to keep up with technology. This is a hungary industry, and it will be growing by leaps and bounds. I see no end in the evolution of technology, even video has crept into the latest D-SLR's placing more importance on the lab personel to know more and more about technology. But if you think for one minute that the technician would be responsible in total for knowing everything there is...you need to visit your responsibility to know your camera and know how to achieve the desired results for your image output...you need to work with your lab technician as a team player, not just the consumer of the film era. I think the future is exciting and I look forward with great anticipation to "tomorrow" in the world of photography.

[mljrbg]

Mary Lou, sounds good. I know that sometime in the not too distant future that "Think in pixels not inches" will come naturally. Gosh, I am honored that I am quoted.;)

Ric, that phrase all of the sudden made complete sense to me!!