Elements RAW vs Fuji Viewer Raw

[Rzrseg]

Hi all,

When I view (and / or convert) my RAW files (underwater pictures) through the Fuji Finepix Viewer, they look different...often very different than when I view them through PSE5. PSE5 often makes them look grainy. This is without any adjustments upon my part, just opening them up with PSE5.

I'd like PSE5 to open the pictures like they look on the camera, which is what they look like with the Finepix Viewer.

I've included some shots of what I'm talking about. (ignore the little corner picture on the blue hole shots, it's something Flickr did)

I'd appreciate any help that can be tossed my way.

Thanks,
David

Belize, Blue Hole with Photoshop
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3234/2691600156_89d0113382.jpg

Belize, Blue Hole with Fuji Viewer
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3152/2691775583_7161240d2a.jpg

Ft. Laud with Photoshop
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3096/2692589922_71ae8e8b5b.jpg

Ft. Laud with Fuji Viewer
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/2691776263_e07baffc75.jpg

[TonyW]

When RAW files are opened up in the ACR editor in Elements it applies defaults to the conversion from Raw to a viewable image. The default profile isn't the same as the one the camera manufacturers use in their viewers and can be very different as, it would appear, in this case. I suspect the graininess is a result of Fuji using a more aggressive noise reduction and it looks like they are also applying more saturation and contrast.

You can change the camera raw defaults in the ACR editor so what you could do is make adjustments to a typical image in the ACR editor to your taste and then save these as the new camera raw defaults - it wil then apply them to every future file you open from that camera. You can also make the defaults ISO specific which might be appropriate in this case (I'm guessing you're using a high ISO so need more noise reduction)

The new ACR 4.5 which will work in PSE5 lets you have more than one set of profiles and Abode are provising some custom ones although at the moment they are only available for Canaon and Nikon.

They have also updated some of the old profiles so you might first want to update your Camera Raw editor and see if that changes anything.

I haven't tried it yet but there is also available a profile editor that will let you make your own camera profiles. I think that's still in Beta but if the first approach isn't what you were looking for you might want to look at that (you could make a profile specific to underwater shots for example) that does some color tone adjustments to rebalance the color channels.

Tony

[Rzrseg]

Excelent!

Setting the defaults sounds good to me...but try as I might, I can't seem to find where they are. How do I get to them?

Thanks again

[TonyW]

It's not exactly obvious ;) but if you click where the arrow is pointing you'll get this dialogue box:

2461

You can make them specific to a camera and/or ISO setting in the regular preferences box (Ctrl-K)

Note that your ACR editor won't look quite like mine - it's PSE6 and it's been updated to the latest ACR 4.5 - there are some more options including the camera profile tab. If you haven't updated your PSE5 ACR from what came originally you should as it has been improved along the way.

You can get the latest update here - instructions on installing are towards the bottom of the page (where it says 6.0 just substitute 5.0)

http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=3943

Tony

[Rzrseg]

Hi Tony,

Okay, I uploaded the new ACR and tried to adjust the default settings but I'm having no luck. When PSE5 opens something, it just goes to hell (very, very noisy and speckled). I even compared it to Irfran Viewer and even IV looks miles better...and that's just not right.

I don't even want to start working on my latest batch of pictures (went to Ft. Laud and then to Cozumel and came back with 600 some odd pictures) before I hammer this out. As it is, I'm probably going to go back through the hundreds I've already done and re-do them...once I figure this out.

Whups, one thing I did notice when I hit Ctrl-K with the RAW image was a drop down menu to know if I wanted to Apply Sharpening to All Images or just the Preview Image. I'd prefer to have No Images, but that wasn't an option. Could this automatic sharpening be doing this?

Do you (or anyone else) have any suggestions about what might be causing this.

Thanks again for the help,
David.

[TonyW]

I don't think that sharpening option is anything to do with it. RAW images are inherantly a little soft and all that preference does I think is offset the softening you get from the digital capture and demosaicing of the RAW image - the Preview option just means you are applying it to the Preview image so it doesn't get included in the xmp file - so to actually sharpen the RAW file you need to open and sharpen in the PSE or Photoshop editor.

Have you tried adjusting the Detail tabs to see if you can improve the noise reduction there and make the image look better?

Without seeing the actual RAW file it's hard to tell quite what is going on but if you want to upload an example to sendspace.com and post the link here we could take a look and see if we can figure out the problem.

Tony

[Rzrseg]

- the Preview option just means you are applying it to the Preview image so it doesn't get included in the xmp file - so to actually sharpen the RAW file you need to open and sharpen in the PSE or Photoshop editor.Ah, didn't know that. It really didn't seem to do much regardless.

Have you tried adjusting the Detail tabs to see if you can improve the noise reduction there and make the image look better?Yes, and with good results. With the new ACR I uploaded, I really hit the Clarity slider hard and that seems to help alot.

Without seeing the actual RAW file it's hard to tell quite what is going on but if you want to upload an example to sendspace.com and post the link here we could take a look and see if we can figure out the problem.Perfect. I'll do this later on tonight when I get home.

[Rzrseg]

Perfect. I'll do this later on tonight when I get home.And here they are

Blue Hole Divers: (a bit grainier with PS)
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ot4diu

Ft Lauderdale Butterfly Fish: (this one is a huge difference in PS)
http://www.sendspace.com/file/5jqb2n

Thanks for taking a look.

[TonyW]

I took a look and I suspect the difference you're seeing is in the way the Fuji Viewer is applying noise reduction versus Adobe Camera Raw. The blue channel is the noisiest channel and you have a lot of blue channel in underwater pics. The sensor in the Fuji camera does give a lot of blue channel noise and Fuji are probably being quite agressive in compensating for it. The default noise reduction in ACR is quite modest by comparison.

You can boost the noise reduction in ACR in the details tab and these pics can stand boosting it quite a bit from the default settings. You can also open it in the PSE editor and boost it further. I also tried the noise reduction plug-in I have (Neat Image) and that dramatically improves the noise because it works on individual color channels.

Underwater shots also need color channel adjustment because of the way water selectively absorbs colors (particularly reds). There's a discussion here on how to do it in Elements - the action described in this thread does work in Elements and does improve the pics a lot (particularly the second where there are reds that need enhancing).

http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26012

Hope this helps.

Tony

PS: Here's what I got with more aggressive noise reduction and and boosting the red channel - don't know what the real colors should look like so I'm sure you could do much better as you've actually been there and seen it :)

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1EtXRIH1q9athNhO1j6GBlsjIYiK0_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1EtXRIH1q9athNhO1j6GBlsjIYiK0)

Tony