New tab in Camera Raw 4.5?

[TonyW]

I just updated my PSE6 with Camera Raw 5 and there's a new tab that I don't remember seeing before. It's Camera Calibration and it gives me the choice of using 3.6 or 4.4. I do remember seeing somewhere that 4.4 did update some of the older camera profiles but I don't recall having the option to select which one to use before. I can't actually tell the difference with my D80 NEF's but it's nice to now have a choice.

Just wondering if anyone else has noticed this and can see a difference??

Tony

[lisabee]

Tony,

I haven't updated yet, :o I tend to wait a few days just in case any glitches are reported.

I think that option is already there on the ACR in CS3, but it's one of those things I've left alone, not really knowing what it would do.

Of the training I've watched for ACR and RAW workflow (over on Kelby training), it hasn't been mentioned either as I was thinking someone might at least say what it did, even if it is not used often.

Lisa

[TonyW]

Lisa: It was also in Lightroom and lets you adjust the red, green blue primaries which I think gets back to the way the camera initially interprets color in a scene so I think could be quite useful for a basic adjustment (I think I could use it to match some specific color settings in my D80 for example). But it never showed up in PSE before and now it doesn't let you make adjustments but just lets you select between two different presets (3.6 and 4.4) but I can't see any difference. Puzzling why it should suddenly appear in PSE and a bit surprising (the tabs have also changed from words to icons). I'll have to poke around the computer and see if I can find if the presets are stored in an xmp file somewhere and see if there's a difference.

Tony

PS Just found these posts from Thomas Knoll himself over on the Adobe Camera Raw forum:

"Thomas Knoll (http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?224@@eebe5f0@.59b5a43f/3) - 6:15am Jun 26, 08 PST</B> (#4 (http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.59b5a43f/3) of 43)
Also, Photoshop Elements users will now be able to control the camera profile used. This is part of the DNG 1.2.0.0 support which allows multiple camera profiles to be embedded in a DNG file.

This importance of DNG 1.2.0.0 support will become clearer in future..."

and

"Thomas Knoll (http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?224@@eebe5f0@.59b5a43f/10) - 9:16am Jun 27, 08 PST</B> (#11 (http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.59b5a43f/10) of 43)
The access to the camera profile popup for Elements users will become more important in the future... At the moment, for most cameras, it only has a single choice to you can just ignore it."

Intriguing - wonder what that means ....

Tony

[TonyW]

Just noticed that the Clarity slider now lets you go negative - I think before it was 0 to 100 and now it's -100 to 100.

That's really useful if you like a soft focus effect - just give it negative clarity.

Wonder what other goodies might be hidden away - it does look like a significant upgrade even for Elements.

Tony

[baycruisers]

I just upgraded ACR to 4.5 in CS3. After a couple of false starts, it's working fine. I noticed a couple of the same changes but haven't had a chance to play with them yet...this weekend.

[lisabee]

Just noticed that the Clarity slider now lets you go negative - I think before it was 0 to 100 and now it's -100 to 100.

That's really useful if you like a soft focus effect - just give it negative clarity.

Wonder what other goodies might be hidden away - it does look like a significant upgrade even for Elements.

Tony


ooohh, I like the sound of negative clarity, I'll have to get updated :D.

thanks too for the explanation on the calibration tab, it does sound like one I'd do best to leave alone,

Lisa

[ATR]

Tony W

Thank you for focusing in on this Update. I just downloaded and installed it into Photoshop Elements 6 (Windows XP Professional). Next I will install it into Premiere Elements 4. But this is my question.....

In the 4.4.1 version, I had two tabs Basic and Detail, with their same drop down lists and essentially the same options. Now in the 4.5 versions, the tabs are replaced by three icons at the top, Basic, Detail, and Camera Calibration. When you select one of those icons that category predominates the view. What is puzzling me, when I select the Camera Calibration icon, of course the Camera Calibration view takes over. Under "Name:" I have but one choice, that being "Embedded". You say you get 3.6 and 4.4. I have read the Thomas Knoll quotes that you posted, so I guess I am one of those just getting one choice at this time. Do you have any ideas why your PSE6 is allowing you two at this time?

I need to look into this some more.

ATR

[TonyW]

ATR: This is purely a guess based on some hints I've seen dropped elsewhere. My D80 was first supported in ACR 3.6 and so thats where the profile for the camera was first done. I believe that Nikon may have supplied some more camera info to Adobe and as a result Adobe may have updated the profile in ACR 4.4 so perhaps now I have a choice of using the old one or the new one. Good theory but a quick look I couldn't see any difference but I haven't really put the pixels under a microscope. I'll have to do that with an appropriate image with a good range of colours to see if I can spot any differences.

Tony

[genevh]

Check this out: http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles

They now have specific camera profiles for the Camera Calibration section of ACR 4.5 and LR2. It's a self-installer and will give you some options for camera profiling.

[TonyW]

Thanks Gene - now it all starts to make sense. I think I'll wait for a while to see how it shakes out because I'm pretty happy with what ACR does with my D80 NEF images and I'd hate to mess them up but I have seen some reports of cameras where ACR doesn't do that great a job so this maybe would be a help in those cases!

Tony

[TonyW]

Gene: Having read some more here:

http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#WhereDownloadProfile

I decided I'd go ahead and load the profiles. Glad I did as I now have a lot of choices in my PSE6 ACR camera calibration tab. I did like the Capture NX feature of being able to apply different camera settings to raw files - now I have something similar in ACR. Only Nikon and Canon are supported with Adobe supplied profiles at the moment but I guess you can make your own for non-supported cameras with the DNG profile editor although I haven't tried as I have enough choice now already:

2452

Gene: Many thanks for steering me in the right direction :)

Tony

[ATR]

Thanks Tony and Gene for all the information supplied. I am no where near completely digesting and utilizing the whys and can dos in this regard, but I just wanted to report back some of today's discoveries, not necessarily explanations.

I have Photoshop Elements 6/Premiere Elements 4 (Windows XP). After I saw Tony's thread the other day, I updated Camera Raw to 4.5 for each of these programs and immediately headed for the new Camera Calibration tab to check it out. My puzzlement was that it gave me one choice, namely Embedded, where Tony had two, namely ACR 4.4 and 3.6.

This morning I noticed that Adobe had another link for these updates, but this link included Camera Raw 4.5 plus a DNG Converter, version 4.5.0.175. So, I replaced my previously Camera Raw 4.5 installed update with this in the appropriate folder for both Photoshop Elements 6 and Premiere Elements 4. This DNG Converter does not come with an installer. Apparently you double click the .exe to get a dialog for conversion of the ACR images that you select, followed by the placement of the .dng images in a folder of choice.

Now, I no longer get "Embedded" in the Camera Calibration choices. Instead, I get two choices, ACR 4.4 and ACR 2.4. This is true if I am working in Photoshop Elements 6 Camera Raw 4.5 with the original camera raw image with the extension of .CRW or as the .DNG version.

In Premiere Elements 4, you can bring .CRW or .DNG into the Timeline via Get Media (no Camera Raw dialog is involved). In Premiere Elements 4, if you opt to "Edit in Photoshop Elements", the .CRW or .DNG will open in the Camera Raw 4.5 dialog of Photoshop Elements 6. When it does, the Camera Calibration choices are now ACR 4.4 and ACR 2.4.

I do not have a camera that offers shooting in Camera Raw, so for me this is an exercise in trying to keep up to date with what is going on with the programs.

ATR

[genevh]

You're welcome, Tony. Glad to be of some small assistance. :D

ATR: I ended up with the same options that Tony shows in his attachment as I also shoot with a Nikon. Curious, though. Mine show up as using the D2x profiles when I am shooting with a D70s. I found the folders where the profiles are stored, and there is one for my camera but LR is picking up the wrong one. Hmmm......need to check something here.

Edit: I removed all the folders for all the other cameras, keeping only the folder for the D70s, and the profiles still show up with the same names in LR2, even though they are named for the D70s when I look at the files in Windows Explorer.

2nd Edit:

Found the reason why:

Why are Nikon D2X profiles showing up in the profile menu in Camera Raw and Lightroom, even though my camera isn't a D2X?

Despite the name, the D2X Mode 1, D2X Mode 2, and D2X Mode 3 profiles aren't actually profiles for the D2X camera. These are profiles designed to match the corresponding Nikon Picture Controls of the same name. To make this easier to understand, open Nikon View NX (or Capture NX) and examine the Picture Controls menu. There are six built-in settings: Standard, Neutral, Vivid, D2X Mode 1, D2X Mode 2, and D2X Mode 3. Those last 3 contain the "D2X" name even for non-D2X cameras. In other words, this is Nikon's naming convention.


I guess Nikon likes to keep things a bit confusing on purpose. :rolleyes:

[elwoodsusanm]

Do these new choices only apply to PSE6? Although I have installed RAW 4.5 I don't get the same choices just 'embedded':confused: I have PSE5

[Jon.P]

Hi Susan,
My name is jon i also have pse5 and guess what?i also only have embedded wish i knew what the problem is.I have 4.5 with dng convertor i am stumped :(:(:(:(

[genevh]

Susan/Jon:

I get the same profile options that TonyW has (see his post #11 above for the screen capture he uploaded), but then I am shooting with a Nikon D70s camera. Someone shooting with a Canon dSLR is going to see a different set of options as the ACR camera profiler will only show you the ones that are available for your particular camera. Now, if you are shooting with a camera that has not yet been profiled (remember, this is still in beta) or a camera that does not shoot RAW, you will not get any options. I opened a JPG in CS3 using ACR and the only option I got was embedded also. But, when I open a RAW/DNG file, I get the options available for my camera in both PSE and CS3.

To see what the profiles are that are available, look here on your hard drive:

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles\Adobe Standard beta 1

If your camera make or model is not listed, that is why you are only getting an option for Embedded.

[elwoodsusanm]

I have Nikon D80!

[genevh]

Are you shooting RAW or JPG? When I open a RAW picture, I get all the options, but when I open a JPG, I don't.

[ricklepage]

Some of the options, including Camera Calibration, are only applicable to RAW files, which is why they don't show up when you edit a JPG. It's one of the things that's a bit confusing about editing non-RAW files with a program called 'Camera RAW' ;)

[elwoodsusanm]

When its a RAW file I just 2 options 3.6 or 4.4. JPG I just get embedded

[TonyW]

To get the other options with a Nikon D80 (or another supported Nikon or Canon) you need to download and install the profiles from here:

http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles

If you haven't downloaded and installed the extra profiles then all you will see is embedded or 3.6 and/or 4.4 (or with some cameras another version that reflects when the camera was first profiled)

Over time I'm sure more profiles will be added.

Tony

[Deryck]

I am trying to update to camera raw 4.5. I have the download which contains an 8bi file in a zip file, but my pc says it cannot open an 8bi file. I am running XP. Any suggestions would be great.

[TonyW]

If you look down the page where you downloaded the update from it has the instructions for installing in PSE6:

To install with Adobe Photoshop Elements 6.0:

1. Exit Photoshop Elements.
2. Open My Computer.
3. Double-click Local Disk (C:).
4. Navigate to: (Please read directory carefully)

Program Files\Adobe\Photoshop Elements 6.0\Plug-Ins\File Formats

5. Move the existing Camera Raw.8bi plug-in to another location (for example, a new folder on your desktop). Ensure you keep this version in case you need to revert back.
6. Copy the Camera Raw plug-in, Camera Raw.8bi, from the download into the same folder as step 4.
7. Launch Photoshop Elements.


Tony

[Deryck]

Thanks Tony - I should have read that page more thoroughly.

[efarnstrom]

I was able to open RAW just fine without the update. But I saw that the update would be beneficial if it read the camera profiles.

SO.....I downloaded the update. Set a system restore point just in case. Saved the old file....and copied the new one to the same file.....and tried to open Elements 6. It wouldn't even open except to the editor when I double clicked on the Camera Raw.8bi file in the program files itself!:eek:

So I reverted to the old files and also did a system restore. The old files are back in place. I can open the organizer and editor, but when I try to open a RAW file (CR2) I get the error that it is the wrong type of file. So now I cannot even open RAW files with the old setup!:eek:

There is a link above to the DNG profiles; however, the download said the DNG profiles were included in that file.

Anyway....I'm bummed!:twisted:

[TonyW]

That is a bummer :( and I can't think what could have happened to cause it. First thing I'd do is go into Help>About Plug-Ins and scroll down the list of plug-ins, select camera raw and click on it. Check which version it reports (if you went back to the original one that shipped with PSE6 and you haven't updated it before then it should say 4.0 I think). Also make sure you only have one camera raw in the plug-in list.

Also double check that the Camera Raw.8bi file is in the correct folder:

C:\Program Files\Adobe\Photoshop Elements 6.0\Plug-Ins\File Formats

The download of ACR 4.5 includes the DNG convertor but not the profiles - they have to be added seperately and go into a different folder. But get ACR working right first. Only thing I can think is that system restore restored the wrong version (perhaps an earlier one that you had left over from an earlier version of elements).

Tony

[elwoodsusanm]

Without wishing to sound dim:o what is the DNG converter actually for? It is sitting on my desktop but I don't know what to do with it:confused:

[TonyW]

The DNG convertor is a standalone program that converts RAW files to Adobe's RAW format (DNG). I've never bothered with it because you can do the conversion from within Camera Raw anyway (by clicking Save Image) should you really want DNG files (which I don't).

The reason some people might need it is if you have an older version of Elements or Photoshop that can't use the newer Camera Raw versions and you had a new camera you would have to do a DNG conversion before you could open the new camera RAW files. For example if you had PSE3 or CS2 and the latest Canon or Nikon you couldn't open a RAW file but if you converted them to DNG using the latest convertor you then could.

Tony

[efarnstrom]

That is a bummer :( and I can't think what could have happened to cause it. First thing I'd do is go into Help>About Plug-Ins and scroll down the list of plug-ins, select camera raw and click on it. Check which version it reports (if you went back to the original one that shipped with PSE6 and you haven't updated it before then it should say 4.0 I think). Also make sure you only have one camera raw in the plug-in list. Also double check that the Camera Raw.8bi file is in the correct folder:
C:\Program Files\Adobe\Photoshop Elements 6.0\Plug-Ins\File Formats
The download of ACR 4.5 includes the DNG convertor but not the profiles - they have to be added seperately and go into a different folder. But get ACR working right first. Only thing I can think is that system restore restored the wrong version (perhaps an earlier one that you had left over from an earlier version of elements). Tony

I went to bed last night very frustrated. So at 5 a.m. I was awake just thinking about all this. I decided on a do-over.

I verified that all the files that were restored were really the files that were dated the same as the old file I had a folder on the desktop. (However, I did not take the step of opening the program to see if the error message was still appearing.)

After setting another restore point, I went to the same folders I was in yesterday and replaced the old file with the new file. Opened the catalog (Yahooooo it opened!). Clicked on a RAW file to send it to the editor (Yesssss.....it opened!) and everything worked just fine..... go figure!:D This was exactly what I did yesterday.....

All your good wishes being sent my way worked! Now I have to work on my knowledge of editing RAW files. The recent video on the PET website was very helpful.:)

[TonyW]

Glad that worked. Sometimes one never finds out why things work one time and not another - a case if if at first it doesn't succeed try again - I've had that happen too.

There are a couple of videos by Matt - Camera Raw 101 and 102 that were an excellent intro to Camera Raw. About a year ago I recall.

Tony