View Full Version : I need more input
July 28th, 2008, 07:47 AM
OK, what kind of input? Well I need more data to support my decision of getting LR or not.
I'm very happy with PSE6 and for me saying that the only reason to get it it is because its easy, it does not really motivate my hand to reach my pocket and spend $300.00 on a software very similar to the one that I'm already using.
LR it's more powerful that ACR, no question about that, but once I finished the basic editing of my RAW's in ACR I pass the control to PSE6 and continue there. Yes I know that only some functions in PSE6 works in the 16 bit world and I have to convert them to the small 8 bit world if I want to use the full potential of PSE6.
The Adobe Ads. mentions things like; Organize, Catalog, Backups, Slide Shows, Sharing, Easy Access of your photos, DNG... But then I said to my self; I already have all of that with PSE6.
OK, please, please, please don't get me wrong; I think I was one of the first people who use the LR beta when it was available and I did use the 30 day trial, and I really think it is a good product, a great Software and yes I really enjoy using the product. It was a long time ago and not for long but I used the product.
I think if you are not interested in the heavy world of PS and PSE and your are intimidated by the word "Layers" and you are looking for a great editing Software, LR is the answer. But right now I need something more than "easy" and "I like it" to spend $$$.
Probably I'm totally confuse :confused: and everything that I said it is a lot of nonsense, :eek: but I know that someone will help me out, and that's the main reason why I like this forum so much, I can express my self and ask for help. :D
All I'm asking is for a little of more information from the users of both products PSE & LR, you are the really source of information. Please tell me something, share your experience with me (and others).
Thanks in advance from a possible LR user.
July 28th, 2008, 08:36 AM
I would say it most definitely changed the way I process my photographs. There are a lot of reasons, one being the non destructive editing, the other would be the complete control over everything involved with your shots (especially if you shoot in RAW).
My thinking was the same as you with my PSE5 "why do I need it?" Now I can't work without it & the PSE5 is only used occasionally on a photo after I work on it in LR. I'm sure some other will leave a more detailed response about LR & I hope this helps a bit. I'm always very careful with money, but I after I got LR I realized what a valuable asset it is for photography. I would really recommend getting a free trial version & go through it completely, I think it would help out your decision making & really show you what a important photographers tool it is.
Best of luck.
July 28th, 2008, 08:59 AM
Hello Rob and thanks for your response, I really appreciate the time you take to respond to my doubts.
July 31st, 2008, 12:59 AM
It will be difficult to explain why I like L/R so much over PSE3/4/5 and or CS-3 but I'll try. Remember that both programs compliment each other meaning that there will be many things done in PSE that will not be done in L/R. So at times I'll switch back and forth between these programs. I most always shoot in RAW format and generally speaking most images do not need drastic post processing work done on them. I just love the way Adobe has the develope module set up so when I open a image and work my way down the develope module until I get what I want. All those tasks are just lined up so beautiful waiting to be tweaked(White balence, exposure, contrast, saturation, curves, both shadows /highlights clipping etc etc). That work flow for me has shortened the amount of time spent on each image very much. Again for me it is so intuitive which I think is so important. I don't need to use adjustment layers for all those tasks that I would have used if using PSE/CS. I'll then go back to PSE and frame and post on the web in my gallery. The Print module is so much easier (by a thousand) to use then printing from PSE/CS.
I just took some pictures the other day and after downloading them to my PC in five minutes or so I had a print in my hand.
I'm not one to use presets that much as I like my images to be realistically true to what I saw thru the viewfinder. But a lot of people here on this forum love presets and the fact that you can download them free.
I plan to relocate all my images into the Library module and use that as my organizer with meta data and labels etc.
I have not really used the slide or web modules to any extent so others can help help out with their own experience.
Like I have already said the easy, intuitive, approach working down the develope and Print modules was by itself worth the money spent. I got the teacher discount so I only paid $99 for the full program. But I will upgrade to version 2. I believe that at some point with a few more upgrades one will not need PSE/CS for Photography editing.
Hope this helps.
July 31st, 2008, 07:05 AM
Thanks so much for your response, you mention two important things for me in your answer. Here I quote them; that's the kind of answer I was looking for, from the real user who use the products and really have a strong comment about it.
Remember that both programs compliment each other meaning that there will be many things done in PSE that will not be done in L/R. So at times I'll switch back and forth between these programs.
I don't need to use adjustment layers for all those tasks that I would have used if using PSE/CS. I'll then go back to PSE and frame and post on the web in my gallery.
I have one more question if you don't mind; When Adobe says that the changes you made to your pictures are non destructive, no matter the format RAW, JPG..., I can understand the RAW part, but I'm confuse with the other formats. That means that the changes you made in LR are saved in what they call The Catalog? If I'm wrong about this would you please clarify it a little bit for me.
Once again thanks.
July 31st, 2008, 07:16 AM
I suspect a lot depends on what you do with your photographs. If you shoot RAW, if you take lots of photographs, if your main use for them is keeping them as photographs and not turning them into "creations" then I convinced myself that Lightroom is the way to go. I just got through shooting 200 or so pics at an event, picking the best 50 and processing them through Lightroom to produce 50 4x6's with the option of 8x10 or bigger on some selected ones. Using Lightroom made this a breeze compared with my other options (PSE6 or CS2). I split them into similar groups, selected the best 50, worked on one from each group (there were three with different lighting conditions) and then copied the settings to the rest of the group. Within an hour or so I had them all done cropped uploaded to an on-line album for people to view and ready to print. I've really only just scratched the surface of what can in done in Lightroom but that convinced me that is was the way to go for the kinds of things I do (I was considering the alternative of upgrading my CS2 to CS3 so I could use the latest ACR). And as a bonus everything is non-destructive so I can go back and tweak individual settings, change the crop, do a little selective dodging and burning etc and of course there's always the option of then bringing a few into PSE6 or CS2 and "creating".
If I just had PSE6 and didn't have CS2 I would probably have opted to get CS3 (I gave the CS3 Beta a good workout) because the implementation of ACR in PSE6 is really pretty lame by comparison with CS3 which in turn is lame compared to Lightroom 2.
Just my 10c based on finally comitting myself to go the Lightroom route:) so I may be a bit biased but I did do the research!
July 31st, 2008, 01:13 PM
Hi, I'll try to answer that last question. I am sure you know that working on a RAW file in the Develop Module will give you the most flexability and often the best quality. That said, Lightroom is suited to edit JPEG or TIFF images. Everything we do to the image is non-destructive and we can go back and forth like crop, add more contrast, re-crop etc and all we are doing is creating a set sequence of instructions that are applied to the image on export. No pixels are changed in the original image, no matter what we do, ie crop, clone/heal, remove red eye,etc. When we export with Lightroom adjustments the edits we made are then applied to the image (JPEG or TIFF). The original is still intact with a set of instructions for that last sequence of edits. This is true for RAW, JPEG's or a TIFF file.
Hope this helps.
July 31st, 2008, 02:35 PM
I have spent the past couple of days "playing" within LR2/PSE6 interface. I must concur with much that has already been offered by Tony and Edmund. I would like to add my two cents worth as well...and I will try not to beat a dead horse...but will try and present another perspective here.
From my perspective, I shoot events, and product and artwork within studio. What LR has assisted me in accomplishing over the past year or so is to streamline my workflow so that it is more efficient, less time at the computer and more time to shoot, thereby directly impacting my ability to create more revenue. So, with the new features in LR2, in particular the Adjustment Brush, which affords the ability to make localized adjustments, without having to create adjustment layers in either PSE6 or CS3, a cataloging system that is to the point, I can actually see what I have and where it is on my drives, in conjunction with Canon DPP I am able to tether my camera to my PC or Laptop when shooting in the field or in my studio and see live within one program the results immediately, and the ability to create custom photo packages, over and above those already provided as presets, now on the fly and save the "new" packages created for future use. As well, I should note that I find printing from LR2 simple and efficient, and again fits right into the workflow that I have. All in all it is as close to a complete "packaged" software that a serious photographer could ever attain for him or herself...and I would include even those that are just beginning that have aspirations to further their love of photography into a more serious nature.
LR2, since downloading it 2 nights ago, without question has become the most preferred method for my complete workflow, from import to print. I will qualify that I have taken a number of images into PSE6 for additional editing, and have yet to import into CS3, and I am being quite honest here, CS3 is already beginning to show signs of "collecting dust" within my workflow as it is. Now, it is still early in my experience with LR2 to say that CS3 will never be opened again for new files that I import, but certainly I have no use for the Organizer within PSE6, nor have I any use for Bridge as it relates to CS3.
So, and take from my discussion what you will, I totally embrace, enthusiastically and without reservation, LR2 into my workflow. I still use PSE6 and probably will continue to use in support of LR for some time to come. If and when printing 16 bit becomes more prominate and more widely supported, PSE will remain a factor within my workflow. Okay, now what about Photoshop itself. My immediate experience has got me thinking more and more that I may not upgrade PSCS3 to whatever in the the near future, and maybe longterm either...but like all things that thought process could change depending on what features are added to Photoshop in the future. But for now, having processed nearly 200 images in the past 48 hours from an event over this past weekend, I think CS3 is going to be mostly collecting dust...which if true means I will be saving at least $200 for upgrades there.
I would like to add and emphasize, I have offered here, my first hand experience with LR2 upgrade from LR1.4.1. This upgrade is Light Years ahead of anything in LR1.4.1. I have long awaited, as a photographer, a program so nearly complete as to assist in creating a workflow so efficient that I clearly will be spending more time shooting than at the computer in the future. And you can take that to the bank...:D
July 31st, 2008, 06:42 PM
Ric: I suspect when you discover that you can open a Lightroomed image in CS3 as a Smart Object, CS3 won't be gathering as much dust. That's about the one thing I wish I had CS3 for but I can live without it - at least until CS4 comes along which I suspect won't be too long ;)
July 31st, 2008, 07:58 PM
I have given smart objects some thought, but really, will they be a major player. Can I live without smart objects? I don't know. But, to be honest...I lived without Photoshop the past couple of days by staying within LR2 and PSE6 and my final product is as good, if not better, than it would have been had I gone through Photoshop, made selections and other tweaks. And near as I can estimate, I may have saved myself 4 man hours of labor to attain a product that I am proud to put my signature on and sell to my client. I think, you will find areas that overlap into both PSE and PS that the Adjustment Brush does a wonderful job, non-destructively, and does so without having to go back and forth from one program to the other and back again. Efficiency is the key operative word in my workflow, and at least for now LR2 with a little help from PSE6 answers that call...and does it well.:)
July 31st, 2008, 08:51 PM
A few more questions;
If the changes are non destructive, then where are the changes saved, In the Catalog?
Does the Catalog contains only the changes?
August 3rd, 2008, 09:15 AM
I think your question got answered in the other thread pretty well, but the short answer is yes, in the catalog.
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