.png with grey background??

[mschall]

My search came up empty, but it seems like this must have been discussed here. When I open a .png element instead of a transparent background it is grey. When I try to select the grey with the magic wand and delete the grey, I get the error "smart object is not directly editable". What does that mean?? I went ahead and printed thinking maybe it wasn't really there. Of course it was. :mad:

I just went back and tried to delete the element. Now I get another error (that didn't come up before) telling me that I need to simplify the layer. I did that and it worked. So, now the next obvious question. What does it mean to simplify a layer? I read somewhere that it means to convert to pixels. Is there a simple explanation as to when you need to do that?

Thanks in advance!

[efarnstrom]

I'll let someone else explain technically what a smart layer is, but the probable reason you got that into your document was from dragging the png up from the photo bin into the document on your work space.

Version 6 changed from this usual way of doing things. You need to go into tile or cascade mode and drag the png from one file to another or copy from one to another. Or, you can open the png file and drag it down into the photo bin to place it on the document.

Hope this helps.

[Jeff Perry]

mschall, Smart Objects are a feature of Photoshop CS3, so I would presume that the PNG file was created in CS3 and apparently carried with it some of the Smart Object "identity". I have not had that happen, but have not created Smart Object files and saved as a PNG, but I assume that is what was done (in CS3). Elements will open files created in CS3 with features, like layer masks and smart layers, that it is capable of loading, but not handling very well, so they need to be converted.

Simplifying is the way the Elements seems to deal with converting SOs and something similar in PSE called Frame Layers that you may have read about (what you get a\when you drag a photo up from the Photo Bin as efarnstrom (http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/member.php?u=1069) suggests may be the problem), and "vector" based files from programs like Illustrator. They then become good ole' Elements layers that you can edit, but the loose their previous identity. It's like dummying down the more intelligent layers into "regular" image layers.

Did the gray background disappear when you simplified, or did you actually have to delete the gray?

Jeff

[mschall]

Yes, I did drag up. I didn't realize that I should NEVER do that. Is that true?

OK, so I get that simplifying converts smart objects (objects that must have been made in CS3) into objects that PSE can work with. But I have read several tutorials about making templates for scrapping and some say to simplify the layers (where you will want to place a photo) and others don't mention simplifying. I'm trying to learn when I need to simplify and when I don't.

So far, everything both of you have told me has been very helpful. No simplifying didn't automatically get rid of the grey. I had to select and delete.

Thanks!

[Jeff Perry]

mschall, I just opened a PNG file that is a grunge frame with a transparent center. When I open it in PSE the transparent part is in fact transparent (checkerboard). If I open another image (flower), and then drag the frame image up from the Photo Bin and drop it on my "flower" image with the move tool, not only does it come in as a Frame Layer (with a little plus sign in the corner of the thumbnail) but also, the transparent middle is now solid white.

Try re-opening the PNG as the only file. Does it still have the gray background?

Jeff

[mschall]

Jeff, OK I shutdown the program. Restarted and opened the offending .png element and, yes it is transparent with the checkerboard background. I then opened another element from the same set/author and in the photo bin it has a checkerboard background. After dragging it up on top of the first transparent element it has a white background. I think that is what you wanted me to do. OK, I give, what does this tell us (of course I mean you) haha.

Mary Ellen

[Diana]

As ES mentioned in post #2 above, in order to keep your transparency, try dragging the PNG image down from the workspace to the destination image in the photo bin.

That's one thing I dislike about PSE6, dragging up from the photo bin creates those "smart objects." I seldom use those preset layouts and frames. I prefer to design my images from scratch myself. It took me quite a while to get used to not dragging up from the photo bin.

Also another change it took me a while to get used to is having to double-click on an image in the photo bin to make it active. In previous versions, a single-click did it.

Diana

[Jeff Perry]

Mary Ellen, one of the "major" differences I noticed in the switch from ver. 5 to 6, was the fact that if you move a photo up from the Photo Bin i 6 (which was the way I always did it in 5) you get a brand new (?) animal to ver. 6 called a Frame Layer. If you move the file from the active workspace down onto an image in the Photo Bin you do not get the Frame Layer, rather the source image is added as normal layer is added to the target image.

I have played with the Frame Layers and the are quirky but very useful in making templates. They work like "clipping groups" and allow images to "float" behind your front frame layer. The just need a lit of practice, and sadly, I have searched thru all the new ver. 6 books on the market, and find very little if any mention of Frame Layers (?).

Just remember to combine your images by dragging/moving down from the active workspace and drop them onto your target image in the Photo Pin.

Jeff

[mschall]

I'll stick with dragging down. My 2 books don't even list frame layer as one of the types of layer. The way you describe it, it sounds like something I would use a lot. That's if I knew how to do it! I have spent most of my time with my new PSE 6 making templates. I have a system that is working, but now I'm curious about frame layers. Jeff, if you find a resource I'd appreciate knowing where to look.

thanks again!

[Jeff Perry]

Mary Ellen, here is what I have been able to do/learn so far about Frames Layers. Try this.

Open four of your favorite pictures, one should be suitable as the background upon which the other three will rest.

With your choice of "background image" active, one by one drag each of the other images UP out of the Photo Bin and drop them on the 1st image. Let each one complete it's move "gyrations" before you do subsequent ones.

After all three have been moved, you should have three Frame Layers and your Background layer.

You can resize each of the frame layers and move them around as you like.

No comes the cool part. Right click on one and select "Position Photo In Frame". You get a little slider to resize the image, and a couple of buttons (one to rotate and one to exchange images).

Slide the slider to expand the image, and then click and move it inside the "Frame".

You can overlap the frame layer "windows" and add Effects to them like drop shadows, etc., although some things may not work, I haven't tried everything.

Very cool when you figure out how they work.

And as the right click and the button suggests swapping images is a short step away.

Sweet!

Jeff

[mschall]

OMG!! That is the coolest thing. You're doing a layout and making a template for later use at the same time. I was concerned about future use so I saved, shutdown, and re-opened. It still worked like a gem! I was able to swap all images and change the background. This saves time creating a template with a bunch of boxes that you need to first save. Plus it's quicker getting the photos in.

Thank you!!! You figured this out?! You need to come sit by my desk for a couple days!!! haha

[Jeff Perry]

As I keep finding out more, I'll keep the forum posted. It seems like Frame Layers could be very handy if they were more well documented.

Enjoy

Jeff

[mschall]

I ran into a glitch. I want my background to be 11.75" X 11.75". I tried both resize image and resize canvas. After dragging up images it left me click fit frame to photo and looked like it was working, but I don't get the slider or buttons and it's not a frame. Before that I tried making a new blank page the size I wanted and adding photo that didn't work either. Do you know, if you can re-size the background image?

Mary Ellen

[Jeff Perry]

Mary Ellen, the best thing to do is to get your background image exactly the way you want it before you start adding in the frame layer images. That being said, obviously you may want to resize the template after it's done (make an 8x10 into a 5X7), and in that case the best thing to use is the crop tool set to the new final dimension. If the aspect ratio is not identical, you may need to temporarily move your frame layer "windows" towards the center of the background image, then resize using the crop tool (losing some of one or more edges if necessary), and then reposition the frame layer images back.

Jeff

[mschall]

Jeff, I'll have to keep plugging away at it. After I resize the background image dragging up images doesn't give me the little plus or the ability to make a frame.

I get what you mean about resizing templates later. That makes sense.

thanks, Mary Ellen