Low Light Pictures

[retodd]

Hello...
I was wondering if I could get some advice for shooting in a low light concert setting. I do some casual shooting for some friends that play in a band and I would like to expand out a little bit. The problem is, I end up with grainy/noisy pictures because of the fact that I am forced to shoot at ISO800 because of the lighting situation. Would it be worth my while to switch to a 2.8f lens as opposed to a Nikkor 18-135mm 3.5f lens? I have photos posted if anyone would like to see what type of noise/grain I am seeing at http://www.myspace.com/rtodddesigns
Any ideas or feedback on the pics would be awesome!

Thanks..
Robert

[Joe M]

Hello Robert,

I don't have a lot of experience in low light like you are talking about. But it seems that a tripod, or at the very least a monopod, would help you lower the ISO and still get some good shots.

[TonyW]

It also depends on the camera and the settings what the highest ISO you can go is without getting into noise issues. The D80 is pretty good at ISO 800 and I regularly go to ISO 1600. The newer cameras (eg the D300) are even better. You also need to experiment with the in camera NR settings to get the best results. The other option is to noise reduce in post-processing. I use the Neat Image plug-in in Elements and find that does a good job of cleaning up noisy images.

Tony

[ricklepage]

Robert:

If it's something important enough, you can always look at renting a lens, too - I've done that from time to time when I knew I needed a faster lens for something like a concert. If you have a good pro photo store in town, you can usually rent a really nice lens for a reasonable amount of money.

I've also used RentGlass a few times, and they're great as well. I know a couple of people who have rented lenses from them for a week or two to go on vacation and were real happy with the service. They send you the lens, and like Netflix, include a pre-paid mailer to return it - it's quick and easy, and a great way to see if you really want that f/2.8 (or the 50 f/1.2 :)).

They're at http://www.rentglass.com/

You'll still need to shoot at higher ISOs, but I've found that going faster can mean the difference between 1600 and 3200 on my 5D, which makes a big difference in noise clean-up. (I bought an 85mm f/1.8 to help with that, because I was shooting so much indoor low light stuff.


Rick

[lowbone]

Part of the problem here is that your Nikon 18-135mm lens is not a constant f 3.5. In other words, the closer you get to 135mm on this lens the more the aperture will approach f 5.6. This is not a particularly good aperture for low llight photography but it is doable with some forethought. When shooting in a low light venue it is extremely important to have the exposure right on. If you are underexposed at all and have to bring the exposure up in post processing you will see an enormous amount of noise. I shoot Canon but some of my friends use the Nikon D80 and get good results up to 1600 ISO. Naturally a photo taken at ISO200 will have allot more clarity and better color but these photos are definitely useable. Not knowing your financial situation I am not going to tell you what you should buy but a constant f 2.8 lens would be a definite advantage for you. As one poster suggested a rental would be an alternate solution but if you plan to do allot of low light shooting you had better save your pennies and get some fast lenses

[msbrad]

I have the canon xti and recently invested in a 50mm fixed lens. I'm real happy I did. Helps bunches in lowlight.
And I bump the ISO to 1600 also.
m

[Jeff Perry]

retodd, all good advice being offered. Here are some additional thoughts to consider.

Three elements go into the right exposure "in camera", shutter speed, f-stop (lens opening), and ISO, all seemingly working against each other and you in this situation.

Shutter speed is critical since you may be taking pictures of fast moving artists on stage, so unless you want to have a lot of terrificly exposed shots of very blurry artists you need to keep the SS fast enough to stop the "action".

Lens opening or f-stop as you know determines the amount of light that is let in to the sensor when the shutter is opened. The faster the lens (e.g., 2.8 or 1.8, etc.) the more light, the better. Sadly, faster lenses mean more money.

The ISO, which is likely to be the only "adjustment" you have to play with given the need to maximize the other two measures. The higher the ISO the more noise you will have to deal with. It can be dealt with partially in camera with the High ISO NR setting, and also during post, but one way or the other you'll have to deal with it, so consider the idea that you may have to invest in a decent NR plug-in for PSE. PSE6 does a fair job with its Remove Noise function, but much better tools are out there, most available as free trials.

The other two variables that come into play outside the camera which you may or may not have much control over are the stage lighting conditions, and the distance to subject. Some stage lighting can be better at times then others, so you'll need to be able to compensate for different ambient lighting conditions at different venues (and at different moments during the performance)

When thinking about a new lens, think also about focal length, since that will likely have a bearing on the "speed" of the lens. If you are far enough away from your subjects to make a fast 50mm your weapon of choice, then a suitable zoom (or telephoto prime) will be needed, and a fast one like the Nikkor 70-200 f2.8 VR may just be THE weapon of choice, but it will set you back a very nice chunk of pocket change.

If you can rent one for your next gig, do it. Mount it on the D80, then open up the lens to 2.8, "step on" your shutter speed, crank up the ISO to offset the shutter speed to get a balanced exposure, zoom in for a close up, and when you get those fantastic shots home, D/L a trial copy of Noise Ninja or a similar NR plug-in and have at it.

Jeff

[lexcell]

Robert,
You have been given plenty of great advice to think about here but, I thought I'd add one more bit...
I would set my camera on aperture priority and spot meter. pen the aperture as wide as it will go to see what shutter speed you are getting. Depending on the light and just how much your friends move around you may need to bump the ISO to reach a faster shutter speed.
The reason I suggest spot metering is you can meter off your subjects face to get a good reading. Photographing musicians playing on stage is slightly difficult because of the bright lights spotlighting the musicians and the dark areas surrounding them which usually causes your subjects to be blown out.
Rick had a great suggestion of renting a lens if you can't afford one. I'd look at either the 70-200mm 2.8 VR for it's versatility and the VR for helping you to hand hold or something even faster depending on how close you can get and how dark it is. Something like a 50mm 1.4 or and 85mm 1.8 or 1.4 would give you more light gathering ability.

[retodd]

http://a707.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/55/m_a8f614574e3ad48e9c081ea4b91484fa.jpg
Thanks to everyone for your advice. I tried using the Neat Image plug in and I think it did a pretty good job. It looks a little bit like it's a painting, but overall I think it looks good. I posted an example above.
Thaks again for all of your help!

[Rooeey]

The 851.8 is pretty good for low light shooting and if you expose to the right it will help keep the digital noise down a bit .....http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml>

[lexcell]

Very cool image. Looks like you nailed it!

[jazzfisher]

Todd,
I found that when I went to a 28-70 zoom 2.8 it made a big difference from my 3.5. I also just got a 50mm, 1.4--great for the low light although I like the ability to zoom. Sometimes you are not allowed to move much in front of the stage. I have been using the imagenomic noiseware for several years--I got the plug --it's great. I always do the noiseware on a separate layer, then you can change the opacity to let back in a little more sharpeness if you feel it's too soft.
See my concert pics on myspace.com/smoothjazzart or on my website. I take alot in low light!!
And you are doing great!