Elements 6 & Premier 4

[foxy45]

I recently bought the bundle but have been plagued by system errors ever since.

I've only just found this forum (it looks very useful!) and notice that people have been complaining about this problem for 2 or 3 years (albeit with earlier versions) I ran Elements 4 for a lomg time without a problem so guess most problems relate to Videos.

I'm not very technical so would prefer not to have to perform all the rather long-winded checks that Adobe suggest. Adobe appear to be saying that the problem lies with 3rd party software but can that really be the whole story with so many users experiencing problems over such a long period?

I run Windows XP, have loads of disk space and over 3GB of RAM. And I've reinstalled with Symantec Anti-Virus turned off.

Has anyone come up with the likely cause of this problem as I've got a feeling that if I mess about too much with my system, I'm likely to beggar it all up.

I guess not, as life with a computer is never simple - but it's worth a try before I go completely mad, throw my Adobe bundle in the bin and go back to ULead.

Cheers
Foxy45

[Ted D.]

Your system sounds fine. Can be more specific, it may help to determine the cause.

[foxy45]

Hi Ted

Not sure how much info you want but the basics are:

Dell PC
Microsoft Windows XP Professional, Version 2002, Service Pack 2
Intel (R) Core (TH)2 Duo CPU
E6550@2.33GHz
2,35 GHz 2.99 GB RAM
Physical address extension

These icons show in my right hand System Tray

Intel R Graphics Media Accelerator
Resaltek HD Audio Manager
Symantec Antivirus
Tom Tom Home
Indexing - currently on pause
VNC Server (Service) 192.168,1.3
Wireless network connection

Screensaver = off

Does this help?

[ATR]

I take it that you have read the following Adobe TechNote on Troubleshooting System Errors in Premiere Elements 4?

http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb402373&sliceId=2

Many problems can come with the same symptoms, but not the same causes. So, using the approach of looking for someone else’s answer to their similar problem may not do it UNLESS you get lucky. Therefore I strongly advise you to go the Adobe systematic route first, maybe hesitate when it comes to reinstalling Windows and the like. In reading the Adobe TechNote, it seemed to me that Adobe was suggesting that 3rd party plugins could be ONE of the reasons for the issue, but not THE reason.

All that being said,
1. Have you updated your RealTek audio drivers?
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3c057647

2. Do you have the latest version of QuickTime installed?

3. Specifically what does the error message say when it appears and what are you doing within Premiere Elements 4 when it appears? Is Premiere Elements 4 the only program with which you are having this issue? What about Photoshop Elements 6? OK or no??

2. Further have you explored the possibility that your wireless network connection is at the core of the issue? Maybe, some details on how you have that configured would be helpful, including where Premiere Elements 4 is installed and where the scratch files are located. Also, is there an external hard drive thrown into the mix? And, if so, what is the format of that external hard drive?

Let us start there,

To be continued

ATR

[ATR]

I just did some Internet searches.....check them out, keeping in mind that none may not be the answer to your specific problem.....

However, depending on your answers to the previous questions about your workflow, you may find the following interesting:

Adobe Photoshop Elements Access to Network Drives
http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36409

A response in the following cautions about using assets for a video program from a network drive
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/205/870787

Next talks about network support for Premiere Elements
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.3c063de5/0

ATR

[foxy45]

Thanks ATR

There's a lot for me to go through there and I'll probably need some help to find all the answers - (I'll have to bribe my son no doubt)

So please watch this space and I'll get back to you.

I can recall that the error messages aren't specific. They say something along the lines that the program has encountered a problem and has had to shut down with apologies for the incomvenience. It has happened in Elements 6 but it's mainly in Premier 4.

Thanks for your efforts.

[ATR]

I will be watching for your progress and questions.

I try to check out the threads at least once a day, and often several times during a day.

Good luck with your troubleshooting. If in doubt about a step, please do not hesitate to ask.

ATR

[foxy45]

hi again ATR

I've started to go through Adobe Tech Note you sent me.

1. I'm fairly certain my system has the necessary guts as described.

2. I've only just bought the package and no updates show so I'm happy I've got the latest version.

3. I'm showing Service Paqck 2 which is current as far as I know.

4. I did this although I didn't see any actually happening. Am I correct in thinking the Initial Workspace Window is the one showing New Project, Open Project, Capture Video? I kept my finger on Shift until I saw this.

5. I didn't have any other devices attached.

6. This mentions 3rd party plugins. I haven't added anything myself other than what came with the original software so does that mean I don't have to do anything with this section?

Looking in Explorer I can see the following under plugins:
COMMON
Effect Previews
Preset Previews
Presets
PSA
Transition Preview

EN-US
AEF Filters
Editing Modes
Effect Presets
hlseffects - playstandard
Master effect presets
New Blue
PS Filters
VST plugins

All double dutch to me I'm afraid!

I've also done a couple of tests during the day using a few clips. Having entered the clips they ran OK but errored when I entered a theme usually just a few minutes into the project.

Does this raise any clues as to what may be going on?

It's obviously a time consuming process so I'll try to get back into it tomorrow.

Incidentally, if I do need to isolate the above plugins, I don't know how. I could no doubt manage to delete them but then wouldn't be able to get them back if they weren't the cause of the problem.

Thick eh?

[foxy45]

Another strange thing was that, having applied a theme, some of my clips in the sceneline had turned upside down.

I couldn't see the effect on 'play' as the program bombed out before I could do so.

[elfoto]

If you don't mind me jumping in. Always try to work with photos in PE4 that are resized down to 1000 x 750. Otherwise it will over tax the system. Mine flipped and stalled and then I realized I was still working with my 4000 x 3000 or so size photos from my 10 mp camera. Hope this helps!

[foxy45]

Thanks Elfto

Could be - Mine were taken with a 6MB camera so I'll do as you say,

[foxy45]

Hi again Elfto

I should add that although I have got some projects that include stills, this latest problem of some being 'upside down' relates solely to video clips.

[ATR]

I am still composing further thoughts on the issues that you have raised.

But, right now, in spite of your specs cited, I am thinking in terms of a resource as well as a possible wireless configuration issue.

Is your system completely wireless or is your Desktop wired and your laptop connected via wireless/modem router? If so, how do you have the sharing setup?

If I recall, you said that you have 3 GB RAM. Just how much of that is available? Do you have dual monitors/graphic card that could be redirecting the resources? Since you said problems occur with Movie Themes and since Movie Themes use more resources than other features, it makes me wonder about the resources that you really have available. Seriously check out the oversized photos situation as pointed out by another contributor (photos should not exceed 1000 x 750 pixels).

I will return later with more comments.

To be continued...

ATR

[foxy45]

Hi ATR

I'll have to get the answer to your latest questions from my tame guru once I can get hold of him so no rush.

It's not just the 'Themes' that cause the problem as I'd only really tried that properly yesterday and I've had trouble for a few weeks now.

I did wonder about the resource issue as when I'm playing clips (including Village tutorials) the clips often pause while another bit loads.

Anyway, I see what further info I can get to you ASAP.

Thanks for your continuing efforts.

[foxy45]

Hi ATR

Both my PC and laptop are on wireless albeit not usually usually used at the same time.

I'm going to try unplugging the USB wireless to see if I still get the problem. But, I'm not around this weekend so there will be a delay until next week.

I'm still looking into how much of my £GB RAM is available.

[foxy45]

Hi again ATR

I've just turned off my wireless and had another session using some miscellaneous video clips.

I managed the longest run to date without incurring a problem. I added transitions and titles all with no problem.

BUT, (there's always a but), the system played up when I tried to use 'Themes' On the first occasion the program turned several of the clips upside down in the sceneline and played them upside down also. Then the program just closed.

I tried again with different clips but very soon got a message saying 'it had encountered a serious problem and woulkd have to shut down. It would attempt to recover my project.

Does this give you any more clues?

Regards

[ATR]

These clips that you are using, are they your own clips? Did you say what format?

If so, try using the Sample Files (.avi) that come with Premiere Elements 4 and see if you get the same results. These files can be found going to the Program Files/Adobe/Premiere Elements 4/Sample Files Folder (based on Windows XP Professional).

This should answer questions about the source of the video currently in use.

ATR
Do not forget about that available RAM, what you installed and what you actually have available, as well as free hard drive space when the bad news sets in.

[foxy45]

Hi ATR

I've been using my own clips which are in MPEG format. (eg M2U00942.MPG)

I've tried using the sample clips (.avi) and they run without a problem. As they don't amount to much in length, I added several sets to extend the time and continued to add titles, transitions, effects and themes - all with no problem.

RAM available on my system is 2.9GB.

I haven't been able to establish how much of this is available to Premiere Elements. Can you describe how I find out?

Regards

[ATR]

You could go Control Panel/System/System Properties and see if the RAM listed in General matches what you installed. Check out Photoshop Elements 6, Full Editor, Edit Menu, Preferences, Performance/Memory Usage.

Also, check out the following AdobeTech Note (section 7) for "set the virtual memory paging file the default size".
http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb402373&sliceId=2

Depending on how things go, you may want to start considering converting your MPEG files to DV AVI before bring them into Premiere Elements 4. Here are two links that may prove useful:

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc4800e

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3c05384c

ATR

[foxy45]

Hi ATR

The RAM listed in General shows as 2.99GB.

Photoshop Elements 6, etc says the ideal range in Performance Memory Usage `is 870 - 1139 and I've increased this to 1487 which is 94%. Is this OK or OTT?

In the Virtual Memory screen I've changed the boxes to show initial and max as 4591. I wasn't sure if ther max was supposed to be the same as the initial.

These fugures are beyond my comprehension so I don't know if I've over-cooked things or not.

But, I had the longest runs yet without any problem (well almost). My system doesn't like it if (say) I change from playing single clips to the project and then back again. This soemtimes make the screen hang.

Apart from when I use the sample AVi files I still have a problem when I apply a theme. ie. I get the message saying the program has encountered a problem and has to close, etc.

Also, when selecting a theme and show all, I only get one option under the categories. Eg. Travel just gives me 'Road Trip'. Is it my imagination - I thought there were a few options under each heading?

Some of my projects have as many as 400 clips - could I be overloading the program in some way? I usually manage to complete such long projects but only by saving every few clips and reloading after each 'bomb out'

That said, things are much improved on where we started and I feel we are almost there.

My next step is to download a file conversion program and convert my MPEGs to AVi and see if that finally solves all my problems.

Thanks for all your help to date.

[ATR]

Sounds good.

1. Virtual Memory. Best to let Windows XP decide, BUT when necessary (that means when that is just not doing it) then you should adjust the settings. Did you check out Adobe's recommendations (See Section 16 of the following link)
http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb402520&sliceId=2

The Initial is usually "Amount of RAM installed" x 1.5
The Maximum is usually UP TO 2 times what the value is for the Initial

So, if you have 2.9 GB of RAM, that should be equivalent to about 2970 MB
So, 2970 x 1.5 = 4455 MB for the Initial
In theory, for the Maximum, up to 4455 x 2 (8910 MB). But often you run into problem maxing out, namely the program will not let you set that high a number or you run into miscellaneous performance problems. So, setting the Maximum to equal the Initial value (4455 MB) is not unrealistic. In between 4455 MB and 8910 MB you judge by overall performance.

2. Movie Theme. The bad news is you are right, one theme under Travel. The good news is that it encourages you to expand on your own creativity. I inquired once about where to purchase additional "movie themes" for Premiere Elements 4 and did not get any where.

3. The 400 video clips. Just how long is each one (minutes/hours)? What type of DVD disc are you targeting for: 4.7 GB/120 min or the double layer type 8.5 GB/240 min? If 8.5 GB, look into issues that might occur when there is the switching of layers.

4. Those numbers that you quoted for Photoshop Elements 6, were they displayed in the Edit Menu/Preferences/Performance dialog (including the 2.9 GB RAM)? Be careful on the higher side that you do not impact other programs. I would stay within the recommended limits.

From what you have written it sounds like your major challenges are getting those MPEG into Premiere Elements as well as what appears to be the huge size of your project.

Have you checked out the concept of Scratch Files yet?
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/PhotoshopElements/6.0/help.html?content=WS69AEB278-0D7B-4db0-9DDE-C045D2FD940C.html

To be continued....

ATR

[foxy45]

Hi ATR

I spent over 3 hours with my project yesterday and all went well until I reached a certain point where I was adding Titles to some of the clips. Then my system bombed out saying Adobe had encountered a problem and had to close.

My clips tend to be about 15 seconds on average with the occasional one running to (say) 90 seconds. As I mentioned, this particular project has 410 clips and, now I have them all in, I can see the project runs for about 90 minutes.

I've also added some music tracks.

As far as Virtual Memory is concerned, I was running with Initial set at 4455 and Maximum at 8910 but have just increased the intial to 4591 as the screen said this was the recommended figure.

I then loaded the project which takes at least 15 minutes and tried again. I tried to enter the title I was working with yesterday and it bombed out again!!! So although progress has been made it is still far from robust and, due to the time it takes to get back to square one after shutting down, I am far from a happy bunny. It's a shame as I can see that the program is far superior to anything else I've got - if only it would work!

I'll ignore Themes from now on.

I only use the 4.7GB/120 minute DVD's.

I've just rechecked the numbers I quoted from the Performance display in Photoshop Elements 6:

Available RAM is shown as 1582MB (so what happened to my 2.99GB??)
Ideal Range = 870-1139 MB
Let Photoshop Use 1487MB (94%)
C: Drive showing as having 274.38 GB of free space.

I only have the one drive. As far as I understnd it, Scratch Files are a seperate area for the program to do it's workings - but that's as much as I know and have no idea whether this would help my problem or indeed how to set it up.

Now I mentiond the size of the typical projects I'm working on in terms of number and length of clip, do you think this is excessive and the cause of the problem?

Would I be better splitting my project in (say) 2 or 3 parts? And, if so, once done how would I get them to run consecutively on the DVD?

You've spent a lot of time looking into this problem with me so I thank you once again for your efforts.

I'm looking to that magic moment when I can report you've 'cracked' it.

Regards

[ATR]

First some more questions....

Premiere Elements 4 Scratch Files for your project
If you go to the Edit Menu/Preferences/Scratch Discs, where are the following directed?
Video Previews
Audio Previews
Media Cache
Disc Encoding
I suspect that they are set for "Same As Project" which would be the C drive.

When you are working on a project, do you Render the Timeline content by pressing the Enter key? If so, how often? Do you do it after each edit? I am talking about that red line that you may see over the Timeline. Pressing the Enter key to Render turns the Red line to Green. What that does is give you a better Preview of your Timeline content after edit. It does not influence the quality of the final product. Each time you Render, you are generating these temporary preview files.

When you are editing away in the Timeline, if you stop look in the Adobe folder where these Scratch Files are located, how many MB are stored there?

I need a mini recap....is Photoshop Elements 6 involved in this specific project? If so, how? Are you creating your project solely in Premiere Elements 4, Photoshop Element 6 not opened?

To be continued....

ATR

[foxy45]

Hi ATR

Yes, you are correct. The scartch files are all directed to 'same as project' = C Drive. Showing as 274.3 GB.

I didn't know about rendering in the Timeline so the answer I'd never dpne it. I assume from what you say I should have been doing it regularly. Anyway, I've just done it and my red line is now showing as green..

I'm unsure where I find the scratch file info in the Adobe folder as I can't see anything under that name. I assume I have to use the 'Files/Folder' option within Elements 4 so as to pick up the figure as and when I'm actually in the project. Is that correct? Can you tell me the full path for the file please?

In this case, I am just using Elements 4 - I have not included any stills in this particular project.

Incidentally, whilst in the project after I'd finished rendering, I tried to add a Title but it bomber out again immediately.

Regards

[ATR]

Although Rendering will get you a better preview of your edits, the "Adobe Premiere Elements Preview Files" folder will get "loaded" in MBs. So, with the problems that you are having now, Render may get you a better Preview, but may be killing you on the resource side. So, do not Render (red to green) unless absolutely critical.

With the Scratch Discs set up described, try to find that Adobe Premiere Elements 4 Folder (with Adobe Premiere Elements Preview Files et al. inside) in a place like My Documents in Windows XP). The intent of my asking those last questions was to get an idea of much you had piled up in that folder.

If that is part of the issue, do you have an external hard drive (formatted NTFS) to which you could direct your Scratch Files? Also, see what happens to your Premiere Elements 4 project when you lower the RAM support to Photoshop Elements 6. If you find a pile of Preview Files, delete them (do not become alarmed if the line above the Timeline goes green back to red...that does means that you need to Render to get a good Preview...it is a circle...) Right now the goal is to get a project that lets you go to Export with crashing.

Is there any way that you edit down your project by 30 minutes and yet get an artistically satisfying final product? I keep that as a reserve idea if all else fails.



ATR

[foxy45]

Hi ATR

I still can't find any mention of Scratch Files under Adobe but have now found entries under Preview Files - is this it?

The first thing I noticed was that I'd got preview files for all my old projects of which there were many due, not least, to all the stuff I've done during testing.

There was 41.1B in total and 19GB for the project I'm working on at the moment. There were file names under 'Encoded' but all showing as NIL GB.

In Media Cache there was 16.1 GB - again showing all my old project stuff.

I deleted everything other than that relating to my current project and the settings ar now:

Preview Files = 19GB (my current project)
Encoded = NIL
Media Cache = 2.84GB

I then went back to the open project in Elements 4 and found my system then froze as is often the case when I've diverted to something else and then come back.

I reloaded and found I could enter more Titles. But, I only managed 3 before the system bombed out. No apology message this time - just back to the Desktop.

I was going to check if my rendering line was red or green but didn't get chance.

I'll reload yet again and see what happens.

I don't have an external hard drive.

I'll have a go at reducing RAM available in Photoshop Elements 6.

I could reduce the length of my project but I've already edited quite heavily from the original video and, as it's a cruise I'm working on, it would seem to defeat the object if I have to leave things out.

Is it possible to work on the project in segments and then export them to a DVD and have them run consecutively?

I'll get back to you with the rest of the info when I've had time to investigate.

Regards

[ATR]

Have you seen this FAQ from Premiere Elements User to User Forum at Adobe? It is a procedure for working with a large project in small pieces. Check it out to see if it works for you in your situation.

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bbe608f

If you need follow up on it, let me know and I will go into more details.

ATR

[foxy45]

Hi ATR

No I hadn't seen this before.

I've just tried working on a segment of 100 clips rather than the 400 I had originally and all seemed to be going well. I added some titles, effects and 3 or 4 music tracks.

I then moved on to 'Export' - this went straight into rendering and took over an hour. I started to play the project again from within Elements and then it bombed out - again.

I then went to Windows Explorer and found the segment I'd exported. I opened this with Windows Media Player which, after showing the initial Title I'd employed, went to blank screen but continued to play (a) the audio included in the original clip and (b) the music track I'd added right to the end. Just no video. I repeated the exercise with Quickpalyer and got the same result. The file size of this segment is 1.89GB.

Very odd - what do you reckon I've done wong this time?

I'm sure this is the way to go though, but it obviously needs more work.

Assuming I get that far, what is meant by the Final Mix? He says there's virtually no rendering but that seems to be at odds with what has just happened to my first segment.

Incidentally, going back to your earlier mail I reduced the memory used by Elements 6 from 1487MB to 996MB which is 63%. I don't have Elements 6 running when I running Elements 4 so don't understand what effect this has?

Regards

[foxy45]

In my testing I've dropped down to about 25 clips as the rendering takes a lot less time.

It's also a lot easier to keep tabs on where you are with the project using small segments and you don't lose as much if anything goes wrong.

I haven't had the same problem I experienced yesterday with the video disappearing.

I've only completed 2 segments so far and these play OK using Windows Media Player. But after exporting the second segment, Elements came up with it's favourite message saying it had encountered a problem and would have to close!!!

The good news (I suppose) was that the Export had completed and was there in full in the Explorer Videos folder.

I've obviously got a long way to go and although it looksd as though I may be able to complete the full project in segment form, I'm nervous that I'll have problems again when I gert to the final mix and bring everything back together.

Have you got any views on why I'm still getting these bombed out messages as itr can't be project size this time I wouldn't think as the file size is only 1.9GB.

Regards

[foxy45]

Hi again ATR

In the interim I've completed another 2 segments and then managed to combine them into a new project so I've managed to follow the method.

This covers about a third of what I want to include but the file size is already up to 6.57GB running for just over 30 minutes. I assume this is because it's in AVi format.

I managed to get this (or similar) project on a 4.7GB DVD previously using ULead and the quality was satisfactory so is there a way I can cut down on the finished project size to avoid using mutiple disks?

Regards

[foxy45]

Hi - me again

I've just started re-doing my project for real using the small segment method. I've cut down to about 20 clips amounting to around 4 mins in total. But I've only got as far as the 2nd segment before the dreaded ' encountered a problem and has to close message' arrives.

I'd included one Transition and one Title so surely that shouldn't cause a problem?

[ATR]

I will be back later tonight with some more questions and suggestions and responses to your last questions.

ATR

[foxy45]

OK - look forward to it.

Off to bed now - too much excitment here with Manchester United!!!

[ATR]

Continued thoughts….

1. Instead of you opting for setting the Initial/Max MB for Virtual Memory, have you tried setting for letting Windows XP decide what is best for the Computer Virtual Memory? This is an aside curiosity…when and if you let Windows XP make the decision, what does the available RAM number look like in Photoshop Elements 6 Edit Menu/Performance?

2. Before you restart another project, how about a massive Spring clean up for the computer: removing or moving old projects from the computer, onto a DVD disc if necessary; besides using the Windows XP Disc Cleanup Utility, think about ccleaner software http://www.filehippo.com/download_ccleaner/ (http://www.filehippo.com/download_ccleaner/)
defragmentation, etc.

3. Are you taking your 20 video 0.15 sec clips to the Premiere Elements 4 Timeline, editing WITHOUT rendering the Timeline with the Enter key (red line to green), followed by Export to DV AVI via File Menu/Export/DV AVI? When and if you do that, you will have one copy of the DV AVI automatically added to the project's Media Panel as well as one copy of the DV AVI saved to the hard drive location that you set. Are you then closing that project completely, opening a new Premiere Elements 4 project, and creating another DV AVI (same as before) but with a new bunch of your 20 video 0.15 sec clips? When you generate these DV AVIs, they will be added to the hard drive. After generating these DV AVIs, any way for you to store them to disc until you are ready to bring them all into one new grand project via Premiere Elements Get Media? Maybe transfer to InCD or removable drive???? Burn DV AVIs to DVD for storage???

4. Burn to Disc 4.7 GB/120 min. When you go to the Share Tab/Disk/Burn to: Disc, the interface will show you an area “Quality”. In that section you will see “Fit Contents to Disc” with a box to the left with a check mark. With that setting, Premiere Elements will try to fit your content to the disc. If necessary, it lowers the bitrate to do so. BUT, if it has to lower the bitrate, the quality usually suffers. To get a better understanding of this:
1. Place a DVD in the drive tray and get to this stage for your Timeline content
2. Once the DVD disc is in the drive, in the Quality area you will see “Space Reguire__MB (Bitrate 8.00 mbps). Check those numbers for your project. If you leave “Fit Contents to Disc” unchecked, that will give you a better idea of what is going on. As you move the slider from low to high Quality, note what happens to Space Required and Bitrate. I recommend the “Fit Contents to Disc” check off as a first try.

5. Although your problem presents itself as a resource problem, do not overlook the format of the video? Did you ever say what that was?

To be continued….

ATR

[foxy45]

Hi ATR

By coincidence before your latest mail arrived I’d already had a Spring clean mainly so I could keep track of where I’d got to than for any other reason.
I'd also Defrag's recently and trying again yeterday the sysem said not necessary.
I’ve now changed the virtual memory settings to ‘let Windows’ decide’ and now show:
Processor Scheduling – to programs not background services
Memory Usage – to programs not system cache
Virtual Memory – 3061MB
Under System Managed Size – space available = 349593 MB
Visual Effects – let Windows choose what’s best.

Elements 6 figures hadn’t changed from the manual alteration I did last week but I put them back to within the recommended levels. They now show as
1123MB = 71%
Where the ideal is 870 to 1139
Free = 335.13 GB
Available RAM = 1582

That done, I tried a third segment of about 15 clips. I added several Titles, Effects, Transitions between virtually every clip and a music track – all well over the top just to see if I could get the system to bomb out. I was just about to report that all was well when it suddenly disappeared off the screen!!!
I then closed down the system and re-started.
I’d saved the segment so reloaded. The system then let me add yet more titles which I find odd – it shows it’s not always the same thing the program doesn’t like.
And, this is how I’ve managed to complete a previous projects right through to DVD originally by saving virtually every minute and having the patience to reload every time the program bombed out. Such projects have comprised about 400 clips and run for 90 minutes or so. - all completed in the same laborious way.
It’s this that makes me think it might not be a resource issue. After all Adobe speak of 512MB being required and I’ve got almost 6 times that band loads of free disk space.
It’s as though something ‘spikes’ the program at irregular intervals. Sometimes it bombs out within seconds, other times I can have a run of 45 minutes or so.
I’ve always run CCleaner on a regular basis as it happens. I turn off Symantec and wireless network when working on Elements and don’t use a screen saver.
This is as far as I’ve got this time.
I don’t have any external drives but, going back to the large projects I’ve eventually got off previously, I’ve never had a problem at this stage. Problems have always been at the editing stage.

Regards

[foxy45]

Hi ATR

Just to say I'm on holiday next week

[ATR]

Have a great holiday.

I will be looking forward to your return, hopefully with good news which will include "I did it." But, if not, we will go to Plans B through Z to get this worked out.

ATR

[foxy45]

Hi ATR

Back in the saddle now and ready for Plan B...

[ATR]

Just to say welcome back and I have not forgotten about your issue.

I will be return later today with more comments.

ATR

[ATR]

When last I wrote, it was June 2nd with the promise to respond "later today". Unfortunately, it is June 6th, and I have not gotten back to you with a suggested Plan B. Plan B is at the top of my to-do list for tomorrow morning.

ATR

[foxy45]

Hi ATR

No problem - take your time. I'm not around until Sunday evening as it happens.

Regards

[ATR]

Sorry for so many delays.

I have read and re-read the posts in this thread. Although there seems to have been progress as we went along, apparently you are not at where you would like to be.

The size of your project and your resources appear to be the core issues, but I am not sure that your mpeg files are not contributing to the difficulty. Do I recall correctly, you fared better with the program's Sample Files (.avi) than you did with your mpeg files?

1. You say that you have tried the "large project in small pieces" route, collecting segments as DV AVI via File Menu/Export/Movie, followed by recombining the DV AVI into one new project. There is one variation that may merit looking at. Download and install the free MPEG Streamclip software and convert your files to DV AVI with that program. Then take these DV AVI into Premiere Elements and see how far you get.
http://www.squared5.com/

2. If you have not done so already, I would urge you to incorporate an external hard drive (NTFS formatted) in your workflow to get as much off the local drive with the RAM. Also direct your scratch files to folders on the external hard drive. Also, keep away from wireless configuration until you complete this project.

Right now I cannot come up with any other suggestions that have not been posted already. When you get a chance, update us on how far you have gotten with the project.

If you have not done so already, you may want to ask for opinions at the Premiere Elements User to User Forum at Adobe (http://www.adobeforums.com). You can view the problems/solutions there, but, if you want to post a question, you will need to register. There is no charge for doing so, and I have had no problems with that route.

If you do inquire at that other site, that does not prohibit us from continuing our troubleshooting discussions here, if necessary.

ATR

[foxy45]

Hi again ATR

I did get on better with the AVi files but the project file size was nowhere near the size of my own projects. So I need to extend the number of clips and see what happens.

I'll also try to convert some of my own clips to Avi and use those. All this wiil take time so it may be a while before I can report back to you.

As I understand it, AVi files contain much more detail than Mpeg (bit like RAW stills to jpeg?). if I'm correct in this I would have thought I'd be increasing the size of my project when I'm trying to do the opposite. Or, am I missing something here?

Over the last few days I've been getting my 'old/previous' PC up and running again as I wanted to see what happened if I had nothing other than Windows XP running Adobe Premiere Elements on it. If that went OK, I'd add Elements 6. This PC isn't as powerful as my current one but should still be beyond what Adobe specify as the minimum.

Also, following your suggestion, I'm now looking out an external hard drive so I can test out your other theory. This will also take some time to obtain and set up. I'll run through everything we've covered in these threads to see what happens.

I'm obviously intrigued with this problem and want to get to the bottom of it but also question why external drives, AVi files, etc should be necessary when none of it is mentioned in the Adobe marketing literature. I don't run anything out of the ordinary on my system so wasn't expecting a problem like this when I got the software.

It could be a red herring but I think we may hold some sort of record for the number of views in this forum which makes me wonder how many others are having a similar problem.

I think we should continue as you could well be helping others besides myself.

I estimate it could be a couple of weeks before I can get back to you with anything sensible but may have to call for assistance along the way if that's OK.

Once again - thanks.

[foxy45]

Hi ATR
Fallen at the first hurdle I’m afraid...
I’ve download Streamclip and it seems to work OK but I can’t work out what I’m supposed to do next. I’ve gone File, Open Files and selected a few of my MPEG clips.
When I go back to the file menu I’m faced with a wide selection of options. I would have thought that I needed the ‘Convert’ section but this doesn’t give an Avi option.
The only place I can see Avi is in Export so I selected that and left everything at Default. The program then appears to do something but when checking, nothing seems to have changed from MPEG to Avi extension.
I don’t want all the bells and whistles on offer – just convert to Avi from MPEG and then get back into Premiere Elements and start testing again.
Any idea what I’m doing wrong this time?

[ATR]

Wow. I have been so busy that I have not looked at the number of viewers to this thread. I thank all those who have been reading along here, and I caution again that many problems have the same symptoms, but not the same cause.

I am determined to help you get pass this block and am hoping to hear my favorite words...it works.

Good job and good luck.

ATR

[foxy45]

Hi ATR - me again

Scrub my last post re converting to AVi - I think I've managed to do it. That's a copuple of clips though so I've got my work cut out to do enough to come up with a real test for Premiere.

I've read that there's a 4GB clip limit so that may affect me on some clips.

I'll get back to you when I have a result one way or another.

[ATR]

Did you see the backup info for MPEG Streamclip that I posted very recently for Cocoa in the following thread:
http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37854

The above contained recap info for MPEG Streamclip in general/download as well as suggested setting for getting the DV AVI.

Looking forward to your next post.

ATR

[foxy45]

Hi ATR
Next instalment:
I spent quite some time converting my MPEG files to Avi and then tried to load another test project. I wanted to give it a good test so tried 500 clips. It crashed in next to no time – no reason just had to close, etc.
Then I tried 100 clips and saw a brief message before it flashed off the screen saying something about Add media reporting memory errors before the program closed.
I then tried 50 clips and saw a message saying Adobe Elements was very low on system memory – please proceed with caution.
So it doesn’t look as though the Avi route is going to improve matters. In fact it’s a lot worse – just to test I then tried to load 500 clips of the MPEG variety and, although it took quite a while, they loaded and let me drag them across into a project – so I got a lot further than I had with the Avi’s.

Regards

[ATR]

Way back when, I think that you said that you had 3 GB installed RAM and 2.9 GB of available RAM. Has that changed in anyway along the line, so that your 2.9 GB of available RAM may be down to something like 1.5 to 1.2 GB available RAM? Have you thought about increasing the installed RAM from 3 to 4 GB and seeing what the available RAM amount looks like?

There is at least one thread around somewhere here that talks about RAM amount. Did you ever see the FAQ from Adobe about requirements for Premiere Elements 4? I think that you have meet them, but just review the details just in case.

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3c0518d2

I do not recall if we brought up the possibility of dual monitor and resource detouring? I know it was mentioned in someone else's thread not so long ago.

At this point, I would go with the route that gets you the furtherest.

To be continued.....

ATR

[foxy45]

Hi ATR

I got my old PC up and running but found it only had 1MB of RAM so it's probably not up to the job and there isn't any sense spending money on a an old machine.

However, even though it seems way over OTT based on what Adobe claim to be necessary, I'm looking into getting an extra 2MB RAM in my up to date PC.

This would take me to 5MB. I realise video editing is RAM hungry but is this what others use - I'm thinking of those who don't appear to have my sort of problem?

I don't understand what you mean by 'dual monitoring and resource detouring - can you give me a clue?

That's it for now. I'll report back when I've got more RAM and re-tested - that's assuming my system will accept more RAM

Regards

[foxy45]

Hi ATR

Just been reading another post you replied to and noticed I'd made the same mistake - oops.

Of course I should have said GB not MB.

...back to sleep

[ATR]

Here are some threads of RAM to browse through and commit to memory (just being funning…)

http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33637

http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27979

http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33445

I would not go above 4 GB installed RAM. Hopefully that will give you about 3.5 GB actual RAM.

Some people like to have two computer monitors going at the same time. If permitted, you can drag a window over to the other Monitor to give yourself more room to work on the other Monitor. When you do that, sometimes you can impact the resource distribution. So that is why I asked about that.

As for your old computer, why not install Premiere Elements 4 on that as well and see how far you get. You will have 1 GB RAM, but how much free hard drive space, at least 20 GB? I have a beat up laptop that was given to me recently. It has 512 MB RAM and about 18 GB free hard drive space. In spite of that, I installed Photoshop Elements 6 and Premiere Elements 4 and got them up and running nicely, granted that I did not attempt any grand project, just medium size. I was amazed.



To be continued….
ATR

[foxy45]

Hi ATR

Back again- the additional memory for my main PC has just been delivered and I'm hoping to have it fitted over the weekend. The maximum it will take is 4GB so that's what I'll finish up with.

There was a delay getting my old PC (the one with just under 1GB) fixed up as I had to get a wireless connection fitted so I could get it up to date. I also had to clear a load of old stuff to give me loads of free disk space. All done now so I can begin testing again - hopefully over this weekend.

Just thought I'd let you know I'd not given up - at least not yet!

Cheers

[ATR]

Giving up should not be in our dictionary.

I have a positive feeling for your success this weekend.

Looking forward to the results.

ATR

[foxy45]

New 4GB of memory just fitted. Loaded a project with about 100 clips. Added a few 'old film' effects, a transition and 2 soundtracks.

In the process of adding a title - ie. just scrolling through the choices - when got the dreaded 'encountered a problem and will have to close' message.

My machine won't accept any more RAM.

So other than doing more than my share of cursing, I don't know what I can possible do next.

Regards.

[ATR]

Let us update.

Now with 4 GB RAM installed, what is the amount of your available RAM? What is on that Timeline at this time? At this point, are those 100 clips = DV AVI or something else? What time per clip is involved? Is it just the Old Film effect that spells disaster?

Now that you have the 4 GB RAM, have you tried an abbreviated version of the project? I think that an abbreviated (aka mini) project is a must a this stage.

I take it that you have gone back and reviewed all the suggestions from first until now. Have any of the previous suggestions been lost in the path from the first post until now and all the variations in troubleshooting? Have you incorporated an external hard drive into your operation? Are you rendering the Timeline a lot after applying these effects?

Try to confirm that the Old Film effect is not the specific cause at this stage as well as confirming that the size of the project is not the culprit.

I can go back once again and read the posts from start to finish to see if I can pick up on anything that I missed. I will continue to be here to exchange ideas, but it may be time to get a fresh outlook, maybe from the people who frequent the Premiere Elements Forums at Adobe (http://www.adobeforums.com).

Have you ruled out any networking glitches? As suggested a long time ago, if you are working within a Network, we need to zero in on those details. I am very disappointed that your problems persist, but I am not going to give up on getting you help.

ATR

[foxy45]

Well blow me - I've just written you a long reply and as has happened before as soon as I hit the submit button it tells me I am not logged in - which I am.

And then when I do log in everything I've written has disappeared!

I'll have another go composing my reply in Word and get back to you later.

[foxy45]

I’m not sure where to get the figures on RAM from but have got this from Windows Task Manager/Performance: Physical = 3396712K and Available = 2572572 although they vary every few seconds. Is this what you meant?
By coincidence and once I’d calmed down following the disappointment of the additional RAM not appearing to work, I had reloaded and tried a project with 30 clips lasting about 12 minutes. These were my original MPEG files , not AV1.
I added a main title and several single line type titles.
I added 3 Dire Strait tracks
I added several effects – steered clear of old film this time so mainly adjust colour, contrast, brightness, etc.
I added several transitions.
Oh, and this time I remembered to turn off my wireless connection!
And, guess what, no problem!
There isn’t much else I can think of to do to this mini project other than add a few more clips at a time and see what happens. I was thinking of asking forum members (restricted to those who never have crashes) how many clips they use, how much Ram and free space they have, whether they use external hard drives, etc, etc. Just to see if any sort of norm emerges.
To answer your question I do not have an external hard drive. I’ve read that to be any use this would have to be at least equal to the speed of my main drive and this isn’t likely to be the case.
I’ve got some if not post of the 100 clip project saved so I should be able to get back into it. Is it possible to remove the old film effect once it’s been added?
And, as I think I’ve mentioned previously, I’ve noticed that going back into a previously bombed out project usually lets me add additional stuff anyway. In fact, that’s how I’ve managed to get all of my usual 400 clip projects finished anyway – just by regular saving and reloading.
I don’t render either.
Now I’ll see if I can get this lot on the forum – last time doing it this way just finished up as garbage.
Ruddy computers..........

[ATR]

By first question was going to be what is a Dire Strait track. However, I did a quick search of the Internet and now know that they were a British Rock group. They sounded interesting. I may do some research on them. Are those tracks = mp3?

1. Back to business...if you have an Old Film effect applied to a clip, you should be able to removed it by:
Go to Window Menu and, from the drop down list, click on Properties. That should bring up the Properties Panel to the right of the interface. In that Properties Panel, there should be a panel for Old Film effect as well as panels for Image Control and Motion. Right click the Old Film panel and select and click on Clear in the drop down list. That should get rid of that applied effect.
2. As for verdict on external hard drive, etc., check out this FAQ from Premiere Elements User to User Forum at Adobe:
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3c0518d2
Especially note the part about suggestion for a second hard drive dedicated to video files.
If you have an external hard drive with a format NTFS, go with it for your video files and see what happens. We can worry about speed considerations later.
3. If you right click My Computer and select Properties, what figure do you get for RAM, 3.3, 4.0 GB, other?

Continue to troubleshoot in a systematic way, else we may end up "shooting" ourselves in the foot by oversights.

I am very encouraged by your last post. Keep up the good work.

To be continued.....

ATR

[ATR]

Add on....

Even if you are signed in, the system tends to bump you off, especially if you take what they consider a long time to type your post. With my long answers, this happens to me all the time.

After I type my long response and hit "Submit Reply", a "log in" dialog pops up. I fill it out. Then I just hit the log in button below my ID and Password and wait. Do not hit any other buttons. After a few seconds, you will find your post posted.

ATR

[foxy45]

Hi ATR

I'm now showing 3.24GB RAM under My Computer.

I removed the 'old film' effect and then carried on adding sound tracks and the odd title here and there. No problems and this was the test project with 100 clips which ran for 38 minutes.

As I couldn't get it to crash I then added another 50 clips which took the project up to 52 minutes - still with no problem.

I've run out of time for today but will carry on adding to see what happens. I don't think I've ever got as far as this before so (famous last words) it definately better than before.

The music tracks I've been adding are tracks I've copied from CD's and are either .wav or .wma file extensions.

Regards

[ATR]

I do not want to be a jinx, so I will not congratulate you just yet.

But, unofficially, I am absolutely thrilled by that last report.

I am looking forward to your further results.

ATR

[foxy45]

Hi ATR
It’s a while since I posted but I hadn’t forgotten you!
I was waiting for some new stuff and, having just got back from a cruise in the Norwegian Fjords, I thought now was a good time.
As usual I probably stuffed too much into my new project but although the system blew up a couple of times it was still a lot better than before. So I think it’s probably safe to say that the increased memory more or less resolved matters.
It may be worth me polling other users to ask, for those who never experience any problems, what length of project they put together, how much memory they have, etc, etc.
And, I still question how Adobe reckon you need only 512mb memory.
In any event I can only thank you once again for all your help.

Many thanks.

[ATR]

It was good to hear from you.

Those Adobe posted minimum requirements can give be confusing unless the minimum requirements include a statement about the maximum that you can accomplish with those minimum requirements.

I found this FAQ that you may find interesting. I am not sure if I referred you to it before.
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3c0518d2
No everyone has the same computer, programs installed, etc., so generalizations usually do not mix well in these matters.

I do not do really big Premiere Elements 2 or 4 projects, yet 512 MB just would not work for me (No HDV involved.) What was very challenging to answer was the question "How can I do an Adobe advertised video (start to finish) in 15 minutes using Premiere Elements 4?"

Continued success with your projects. It is great to hear good news.

ATR