Geotagging images.

[Codebreaker]

I'm interested in Geotagging my images and would like to know if anyone is already doing this. If so how are you doing this and what image format are you using. I shoot in RAW so any process would need to be able to provide the location for me to enter - or is there some other way?

Thanks in advance

Colin

[Lynn Dryer]

Hi Colin - I am not at the present but I think it would be great if the cameras had a GPS builtin. I have the new Delorme PN20 and will be in Alaska this spring and plan to use that. I will try tracking and then where critical I will add a way point to get the exact location. I tried when I was in South America and was mildly successful in recording my locations.

In most cases I had to make an additional note on paper as to the significance of the specific waypoint. I am going to continue to tweak the process but only use it when I am in areas that I am not familiar with.

The PN 20 has a world base map so it does get me close in countries I am not familiar with. In the case of Alaska I have full GPS coverage so it should work better. It would be nice if I could hook the PN20 to my camera or use blue tooth. Someday . . .

I do most of my photography in Oregon, Nevada and Washington and Canada, Mexico so I have those states covered.

Lynn

[dj_paige]

I'm interested in Geotagging my images and would like to know if anyone is already doing this. If so how are you doing this and what image format are you using. I shoot in RAW so any process would need to be able to provide the location for me to enter - or is there some other way?

In Photoshop Elements, you could select a photo(s), right click and say "Place on Map". Type in the location (example: 37 Main Street, Palmyra, NY) and then click OK. Your images are now geo-tagged for use in Photoshop Elements, and can be found on the Map viewer in the PSE Organizer. I do this with virtually all of my photos. You can also select "Write Tag and File Property Info to Files" and now your images have the GPS info stored with the image as well (but caution, as this thread (http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36285&highlight=dj_paige) shows, there seems to be a bug with some types of Raw photos and the GPS info does not get written to some types of Raw photos, even if you convert the Raw to .jpg; working with .jpg originals does not have this bug as far as I can see) for use in external applications, like Flickr.

[TonyW]

Colin: I've done a bit of geotagging using various methods (but not on RAW files). I think the easiest way is using Picasa 2.7 - you just select the image (images) and Tools>Geotag>Geotag with Google Earth. Google Earth opens up (assuming you have it installed) and plop the photo on the location. Very quick and simple as long as you know where you took the pic. Elements Organizer recognizes a Picasa geotagged file. I'll have try try my RAW (NEF) files.

I've also tried various programs for directly entering GPS determined lat and long data to the file (again just JPEG). Can't remember which worked best but I think doing it the Google Earth way is just as good (and you can upload GPS waypoints to Google Earth if you want to be precise about where you drop the photos,

Tony

[kImages]

Colin, I was reading the D300 manual yesterday (yeah nerd girl!) and found that you can connect a GPS directly to the 10 pin connector on the camera. I understood that it writes the GPS coordinates to the metadata. I thought to myself "gee that's cool they did that for the National Geographic writers!" :D

[dj_paige]

TonyW: Picasa is easier than PSE? In PSE you can simply drag the thumbnail onto the map (which seems like it is the same number of mouse actions as your description of Picasa), or you type in the street and city address.

[mike_v]

The easiest way to do it (IMHO) is to use a GPS that records a track. Download and save the track file as a *.gpx file (gpx is the common GPS data exchange format). Then download (for free) WWMX Location Stamper form Microsoft.

http://research.microsoft.com/research/downloads/Details/eadb6a33-b1b8-4c4d-b713-64fae728f74f/Details.aspx

Load the track file and the images and, using the track and image time stamps, the images are automatically placed on the map. You will have to adjust the image time stamps to GMT to coincide with the times in the track file.

I have found that the Elements Editor occaisionally wipes out some of the GPS info and I have opened a case with Adobe. Please let me know if you have different results.

Cheers

Mike

[TonyW]

Paige: I guess it's relative to what you're used to using. I've used Google Earth and Maps more and don't much like Yahoo Maps. I find it a lot easier to drop a picture of Big Ben on top of the high res satellite imagery that Google Earth has of many areas (like London in this case).

I did try a NEF file and am having problems. It tagged in Picasa OK but in Elements the Organizer doesn't recognize the geotag. Does seem like there is a problem (at least with NEF files). Maybe related to that other problem we were seeing with RAW files.

Tony

[dj_paige]

mike_v: yes, please let us know exactly what Adobe says. Could you please be more specific when you say "I have found that the Elements Editor occaisionally wipes out some of the GPS info"? I have seen this particular problem only when I edit my Nikon Raw (.nef) files and save as .jpg or .psd. If I edit the Raw file and save as Raw, or edit as .jpg and save as .jpg, PSE has never lost GPS data (in my experience).

TonyW: Yahoo Maps has imagery, are you saying that Google Earth has higher-resolution imagery? At least when I look at maps on the web and compare Yahoo! Maps to Google Maps, I don't see the difference, but I admit that I haven't really done a careful side-by-side comparison. When you say: I did try a NEF file and am having problems. It tagged in Picasa OK but in Elements the Organizer doesn't recognize the geotag do you mean that the GPS information was properly written to the .xmp file by Picasa?

[TonyW]

Paige: I was using Google Earth and it does appear to have higher resolution or at least you can zoom right in on an individual car parked on the street - I can't seem to zoom that far in on Yahoo Maps. Also with Picasa you get to tag with a full screen satellite image which makes it easier. I don't know what Picasa did with the GPS data and the NEF file. I doubt that there's an xmp file and according to Capture NX it's not in the GPS field of the IPTC data. I'm still trying to find out where it gets stored.

Tony

[dj_paige]

TonyW: I'm still trying to understand what you did when you said "I did try a NEF file and am having problems. It tagged in Picasa OK but in Elements the Organizer doesn't recognize the geotag". Did you apply a geotag in Picasa and then import the Raw file into Elements to see if Elements recognizes the tag?

I believe Picasa has its own database of these things, just like PSE has its own database, and its unsurprising if the info in the Picasa database is not available to the file itself when it is imported into PSE. It would work the same (that is, the geotag wouldn't transfer) if you applied it to a RAW file in PSE and then imported the file into Picasa.

Is there an option in Picasa, like there is in PSE, to write metadata (captions, notes, tags, GPS) to the actual file?

[TonyW]

Paige: With JPEG files it writes to the file metadata and it's in a format that everything seems to understand. I think it's supposed to do that with RAW files too but it doesn't seem to do it with my NEF files so you may be right - it may stay in Picasa. I've seen reports that you can do it but I haven't figured out how it was done (and it was for a D200 and not my D80 so maybe something changed in the NEF format)

Tony

PS I just exported/resized two Picasa tagged files, one a JPEG and one a NEF from Picasa (exporting as JPEGS). The one from the JPEG arrived properly geotagged, the one from the NEF didn't arrive tagged. So it's the same problem as in Elements with NEF files losing GPS data on conversion to JPEG.

[dj_paige]

Great! Thanks for your help.

This means that two different programmers at two different software manufacturers are unable to properly write metadata to Nikon D80 .NEF files; or there's something unusual about the Nikon D80 .NEF files that prevents metadata from begin written. I wonder what Capture NX does.

[Chuck S.]

Another option:

http://www.robogeo.com/home/

[johnrellis]

Has anyone tried the GiSTEQ PhotoTrackr Lite:

http://www.amazon.com/GiSTEQ-DPL700-PhotoTrackr-trade-Lite/dp/B0010EMIT6/ref=pd_bbs_8?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1209013019&sr=8-8

It's a simple GPS unit that continually logs your location, and then you use its software to match the times in its log with the times of your photos, and it then tags your photos with the corresponding locations.

[Codebreaker]

Many thanks for the replies.

Some of the options mentioned I had already considered but some of them rely on dragging your image onto a map or entering a location name. What I'm really after is the way to do this as automatically as possible.

In other words enter the GPS co-ordinates into the image file and then have a tag placed on the map automatically. This is only for my local use - not posting on any image sharing site. The idea being that when we get back from a trip we can go oooh! aaah! where was that taken? - click on a link and see the location on a map. I do like the Google Earth for its detail.

I've looked at Geosetter - which is free - which gives the impression it can do something like this but I haven't had time to try it fully yet. I also tried downloading ROBOGEO yesterday but ran into problems.

Useful info so far, thank you. I may have to take the low cost approach initially and use map, compass and sticky coloured dots :-)

Colin

[TonyW]

Colin: Be sure to keep us up to date with how you get on and Geosetter sounds promising (another one is Geotag - http://geotag.sourceforge.net/ ). I know I tried a few a year or so ago including Robogeo and nothing was quite right then. Does seem like its an area where someone has yet to get it all quite right especially with RAW files.

My prediction is that it will become a standard camera feature one of these days. It's a cheap add-on that doesn't take up much room and would let the camera manufacturers extract a bit more profit. And I guess I'm not alone in that prediction - http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9868159-39.html . A new chip is on the way http://www.air-semi.com/default.aspx.

Tony

[Codebreaker]

Thanks Tony......

I shall be very quiet for a while as I'm taking a long trip around the West Coast of Scotland - hence the interest in trying to figure out where I was :)

I'll try and update you when I get back.

Colin

[Codebreaker]

I've been doing a bit more digging. This GISTEQ (http://www.gisteq.com/PhotoTrackrProducts.php) device - similar to the one mentioned earlier seems to be quite good. Doesn't seem to be on the market here in the Uk yet.

The two features I've noticed to look for so far are:-

1. Ability to record a track and export this as a GPX file - KML is also nice if you intend to use Google Earth.

2. Ability to produce an XMP file for RAW images.

The missing link seems to be that most programs use Internet maps which is fine if you can get connected - not so good if your away from your braodband (and mobile net connection is another expense). What I'd really like is a Map I can load on my PC and then 'stick the pins in'

Colin

[TonyW]

I've been doing a bit more digging. This GISTEQ (http://www.gisteq.com/PhotoTrackrProducts.php) device - similar to the one mentioned earlier seems to be quite good. Doesn't seem to be on the market here in the Uk yet.

The two features I've noticed to look for so far are:-

1. Ability to record a track and export this as a GPX file - KML is also nice if you intend to use Google Earth.

2. Ability to produce an XMP file for RAW images.

The missing link seems to be that most programs use Internet maps which is fine if you can get connected - not so good if your away from your braodband (and mobile net connection is another expense). What I'd really like is a Map I can load on my PC and then 'stick the pins in'

Colin

Colin: I have quite a lot of ways of doing this - I stick lots of pins in maps (I'm a geocacher) and most you can also link the pins to pictures. Programs I have that will do this are Microsoft Streets and Trips (North America) and Microsoft Autoroute (European version), Fugawi (don't ask about the name) but it's an excellent program that lets you either use available maps or scan your own and calibrate them, And Garmin Mapsource along with the maps for Garmin GPS units will also let you do this. Probably a lot more out there like this. They are all pretty straightforward to use.

Enjoy your trip - that's an area where we;ve had some great visits - but before the days of GPS, geocoding or having a good digital camera.

Tony

[Codebreaker]

Thanks for the tips, Tony. I did look at the Garmin units since I'd get a dual function - being able to plan a trip and also log the route. However, they were a little expensive and the number of trackpoints was low compared with some other options. In the end I've ordered the Gisteq unit and I'm just hoping it arrives before our departure date. It can track up to 250,000 points and you can vary the time interval between each. I think it also supports manual addition of Waypoints......another toy to play with!!

I'll have a look at those map sources you mention plus I've come across Memory Map which might also support an off-line solution.

Thxs
Colin

[Lynn Dryer]

Check out Delorme.com

[Codebreaker]

The Gisteq Phototrackr has arrived and just two days to go before the 'big trip'.

Initially I couldn't get a Satellite Fix and was all prepared to send it back but one evening while stuck in a hotel room I decided to read the help file that came with the S/W and found a statement saying it would take 15-20minutes to aquire a fix first time around after the battery has been installed. Eventually it got a fix and appears to be reasonably sensitive.

The S/W that came with it I'd describe as a bit 'Mickey Mouse'!!!

It will configure the tracker so that it records trip points at intervals of between 1 and 3600 secs and various other options.

You can download the log and export in different formats such as GPX and NMEA if you wish.

You can also import all your images and then synchronise them with the GPS log and then choose to update the EXIF or create an XMP for RAW files which contains the Long, Lat and Altitude numbers.

You can view the images on a Google Map but this is where things didn't work to well. RAW images are not rendered very well - in fact pretty useless and not just my Canon CR2s. Other folks have reported similar problems with Nikon, Olympus ans Sony. Colour and quality are very bad and the aspect ratio is always assumed to be 4:3 resulting in squashed images.

You can replay the trip from within the S/W.

However, I've found that Geosetter works better and now supports the Gisteq device. Geosetter not only matches the GPS co-ordinates it provides Location, City, State/Province information as well giving a more complete solution. Plus it renders Raw images very well.

Either s/w results in an XMP file for Raw images and this is useful within Lightroom. Lightroom displays the co-ordinates and provides a direct link into Google Maps. This is what's missing in Elements although I can see this coming in the next release perhaps. Currently it's a manual routine to place images on the Yahoo Map ( when most others use Google :rolleyes: ). It doesn't seem like an arduous task to have the code pickup the GPS cordinates and do this automatically.

Anyway the 'big trip' is about to kick off and I'll be recording the trip points all the way along. I'll download the images and trip log to the laptop on a daily basis but do the real processing back home. That's going to be quite a task:)

Colin

[johnrellis]

Colin,

Thanks for the detailed report -- very interesting. I look forward to hearing how it works in practice.

But with respect to PSE, if you import a photo with GPS coordinates in the EXIF data, PSE will place it on its map. However, there's a bug -- after importing, you need to restart PSE before the push pins will show up:

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3c06401b/0

[dj_paige]

But with respect to PSE, if you import a photo with GPS coordinates in the EXIF data, PSE will place it on its map. However, there's a bug -- after importing, you need to restart PSE before the push pins will show up:

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3c06401b/0

Please clarify this statement ... this applies to PSE6 and not to PSE5, right?

[johnrellis]

Please clarify this statement ... this applies to PSE6 and not to PSE5, right?

That's right. I don't know about PSE 5 behavior with respect to EXIF GPS fields.

[dj_paige]

I just confirmed that this issue does not happen in PSE5.

[Codebreaker]

John....

Thanks for the tip as it made me go back and try again. Apparently you don't need to re-start E6 but just use the Show on Map command and it works. Sadly the Yahoo map isn't as good as Google Earth - in my opinion. Detail is lacking for the area I've tried so far.

Colin

[Lesa]

Did y'all see the details on the new Eye-Fi Explore card (http://www.eye.fi/products/explore/)? It's a wi-fi SD card that automatically adds geotagging information to your images.

My husband and I have the regular version of this card and it's a lot of fun to just shoot images and have them auto upload to Flickr and our computers (our friends and family are spread all over the globe). This new card, though, will scout for open networks even when you're out and about.

:)

[Codebreaker]

Lesa.....

Yes I saw this some time ago but to be honest it seems of limited use for me. You need to be within 90feet of a hotspot for it to work and it doesn't truely add GPS info just what it can get from the hotspot location.

I think those hotspots also need to be enabled with the specific S/W to match the card. Plus each card you use would need to have this feature and they're not cheap.

Also not much use if your in the middle of nowhere, which I frequently am. :)

Colin

[johnrellis]

Sadly the Yahoo map isn't as good as Google Earth - in my opinion. Detail is lacking for the area I've tried so far.

Agreed. I have lots of backcountry photos from parks and forests, and Yahoo maps shows very little detail for those areas.

There are a number of bugs with the PSE 6 Map View that have discouraged me from using it:

Moving map locations always fails, silently (too bad if you want to record backcountry locations not namable via Yahoo Maps).
Giving a map location to a tag assigned to hundreds of photos makes both the Keywords pane and the Map View unusably slow.
Removing the map push-pin of a tag assigned to hundreds of photos mistakenly tries to update the metadata of each photo, which can take tens of minutes and fill up your recycle bin.
If a photo with GPS coordinates is imported, it doesn’t show as a red push-pin on the map.
I'm reluctant to use a component that's obviously not been well tested. Maybe I'll revisit it if you have a good experience with your new toy.

[johnrellis]

I think those hotspots also need to be enabled with the specific S/W to match the card.

According to a news article, the Eye-Fi doesn't require the hotspots to be enabled with specific software. Instead, Eye-Fi uses a service called Skyhook (www.skyhookwireless.com (http://www.skyhookwireless.com)), which is also used by the iPhone. Skyhook has mapped hundreds of thousands of Wifi locations (simply by driving around with specially equipped cars), and it's rolling out in Europe and Asia.

In urban and suburban areas, supposedly Skyhook can triangulate pretty well (20m, not as good as a good GPS). But you're out of luck if you're not in range.

[mike_v]

I've just found GeoSetter (http://www.geosetter.de/en/index.html) that works really well and works with most RAW files.

[mike_v]

Adobe said "Can't reproduce"!

I have seen a number of threads here where people are complaining about PSE occaisionally writing time zone info incorrectly.

[mike_v]

GeoSetter works a treat, either manually placing the image on its own Goole Maps window or using a GPS track file. PSE6 is the problem - sometimes the Editor wipes the Lat/Lon.

http://www.geosetter.de/en/index.html

[Codebreaker]

Well I'm back from my trip with a couple of thousand images to process.

The Gisteq hardware worked very well in that it tracked me reliably. It only dropped out when on board ship and surrounded by a few tonnes of steel and inside railway tunnels - no surprise really.

The only downside of the hardware is that there is not battery status indicator. Being aware of this I did regularly charge it but on one occasion I got a verbal warning ' Battery Low' and the unit switched itself off. Not a lot of use.

The Gisteq S/W is pretty useless and I only used it for downloading the trip recorded in the tracker. I used Geosetter instead which is really very good if it could download from the Photrackr it would be all I needed.

I was off line nearly all the time so couldn't play with the mapping functions. Also I downloaded each days shots onto my laptop and keyworded them in LR. I don't process them as I need to use a calibrated screen, so the object was to do this once home so I had a mini-workflow that I hoped would work. It still needs some re-finement.

1. Download trip record using Gisteq S/W
2. Download images into LR and keyword.
3. Create XMP files
3. Use Geosetter to sync images to GPS co-ords.
4. Use Geosetter to update XMP with GPS info
5. Read XMP files back into LR.

There were a couple of 'funnies' I haven't quite got to the bottom of yet.

The Gisteq S/W could create XMP files but tended to overwrite the original created by LR - which meant the Keywords got lost. Geosetter didn't do this -originally - since it appeared to append the GPS data into the XMP file. It also renames the original XMP as a backup before creating a new one. However, since I've had to re-do this on my workstation I appear to be loosing Keywords again - it might be a different option in Geosetter that I haven't set right. So far it's not a problem.

Geosetter also has the nice feature that it will also search for the Country/City/Province/Location. It gets close in many cases but it's easy to ammend and do batches that are all in the same area. LR picks up these values and uses them as Keywords, although it doesn't maintain a hierarchy.

You can also click on the GPS co-ords in the LR Metadata Panel and it will take you to Google Earth. Hold down the Alt(Option) and it will take you to the Yahoo equivalent.

So the nice thing so far is that Location keywords are being generated fairly easily without me trying to guess - 'Just where was that shot taken'.

Couple of 'gotchas' that need to be considered. The GPS tracker and camera both need to have the time sync'd accurately. This is how the GPS data is matched to the shot. If there's a difference then the position may well be out. Also with the Gisteq device you can set the interval that it records the position from anywhere between 1 and 3600 seconds. The longer the interval the more deviation is likely.

So far so good. More as I get to play more.

Colin

[TonyW]

Colin: Glad to here you're back and getting it to work.. Sounds like a great trip. Must admit I'd much prefer the direct geotagging approach and I'm still trying to discover if I can hook my D80 to my Garmin GPS. I could if I had a D 200 or D300 (and the Nikon GPS Cable) but although the D80 has the right connector I have yet to discover if the D80 firmware supports it. Might be a good excuse to upgrade to the D300 :) As it is any geotagging I've done is manual - mark with the GPS and then edit the EXIF data. For the couple of local mapping projects I've done that worked OK but for a trip like yours that would be a lot of work and record keeping.

Tony

[gdjoslin]

I am thinking of buying one, can not find a recent post of different GPS units. Anyone know how they work with PSE 7?

Thanks
Gary

[Codebreaker]

Gary....

None of them work directly with PSE. What happens is that you need S/W that can read the track logs and then match up images taken at the same time as entries in the log. (PSE can't do this) Once this is done the metadata of the image can be updated to include the lat/long/atlitude. You can go further and Reverse Geocode which means that given the lat/long you can then find the Country /State_Province/City/Location and also write these into the metadata of the image.

Once you have an image with all this metadata in it PSE will allow you to display a point on its map for that image.

For the Gisteq unit it comes with S/W that will do all of the above plus allow you to replay the track and to see the images on a Map. However, I found it very dissapointing and buggy and only use it to download the track log.

There is some similar S/W thats free from Jetphotosoft (http://www.jetphotosoft.com/web/home/)

My own personal preference is to use another free S/W package called Geosetter (http://www.geosetter.de/en/). With this I tag all the images with the Lat/Long/Altitude and Reverse Geocode them. It writes this out to the images or in the case of RAW files creates an XMP file. I use Lightroom instead of PSE and within that I can click on the metadata for an image and have its location displayed in Google Earth (or Yahoo). You could do the same with PSE if you wish.

For other units do a Google search for GPS Data Loggers

Colin

[Chuck S.]

Colin, thanks for the info on Geosetter. When this thread originated, I was looking at another S/W package, but it only worked with JPEGs, not RAW images. If/when I find some time, I think I'll give Geosetter a go!

[Codebreaker]

Hi Chuck.....

I have to say for a free S/W package I'm impressed with it. It seems to be fairly well maintained as well with regular updates.

Colin

[gdjoslin]

Colin, Thanks for the reply!!
I did Google and came up with endless links, one of which was this one. Would you still buy this unit knowing what you know? I am going on a cruise this summer and though it might be fun on the excursions.
Another question I have.... does the time on the unit change as you cross time zones?

After going thru boxes and boxes of photos from my Parents and Grandparents, I am glad my kids will have to deal mainly with digital images. At least they will have a few clues about the photos. Date, times, and with this maybe even location.

Thanks again

[johnrellis]

I am thinking of buying one, can not find a recent post of different GPS units. Anyone know how they work with PSE 7?
Gary,

I strongly advise not assigning GPS locations to photos if you plan on having more than a few hundred such photos imported into PSE 7. PSE’s Map view is a toy riddled with bugs:

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.59b6aaa0/0 (http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.59b6aaa0/0)

Even if you use an external program to manage and view the photos’ GPS locations, and you never open PSE’s Map View, assigning keyword tags in PSE will still be intolerably slow.

[gdjoslin]

Well how about Light Room. I have been thinking about changing. I was hoping that 7 had worked out a few bugs. I am really disappointed with Adobe, it looks like they would get this fixed... quit putting out new versions and charing us so much for an upgrade.
Is there a forum for Lightroom users beside the Adobe forum?
Thanks for the information John.

[gdjoslin]

BTW John, What kid of Data Logger or Geotagging unit do you use? Any help steering me the right direction is welcome.

gary

[johnrellis]

I think Colin uses Lightroom, so he might have a good answer.

You can find Adobe's user-to-user Lightroom forums here:

http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx/.3bc2cf0a/

Elements Village has a Lightroom forum:

http://www.elementsvillage.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31

I don't have a GPS unit yet. I was looking at the one that Colin has reported on. I started geotagging manually within PSE and stumbled on all of its bugs, so I gave up on that for now. Instead, I just use hierarchical keyword tags to tag my photos with place names.

[Codebreaker]

Gary....

It really is worth geotagging your images - even if PSE has bugs - because there are other ways of seeing your images on a map.

Geosetter will geotag and show you your images on a map although its only Folder based rather than an Organiser like PSE. One other thing is that once geotagged you'll also get the keyword/tags of Location etc for use in Elements Organiser even if you don't use the map.

I use Lightroom rather than Elements and it works fine with geotagged images although you only see one image at a time on a map. Geosetter will show you the location of all the images geotagged in a Folder. It will also export a Google Earth KMZ file which you can share with others to see both location and a small version of the images.

As for the Gisteq unit. Well the hardware works ok but I can't say its any better or worse than others since its the only one I have. The S/W that comes with it is usable - but not great. The support for RAW will write out an XMP file but it displays the images very badly. So, again I just use it to download the track log and then use Geosetter for the rest.

Colin

[johnrellis]

It really is worth geotagging your images - even if PSE has bugs - because there are other ways of seeing your images on a map.
I agree that geotagging is definitely a good thing in general. But unfortunately in PSE, if you have more than a couple hundred photos with assigned GPS locations, keyword tagging becomes so slow that it's unusable. This occurs regardless if you open Map view or not.

[gdjoslin]

Do you have to tag images right away or could I save the Geo Data to a file to tag a year or so later. The reason I would do this is to tag a few photos for posting, and keep the rest untagged with the GEO data. I do like PSE so maybe in a year or so PSE would have the bug fixed and I could join the data with the images at that time.

[dj_paige]

I agree that geotagging is definitely a good thing in general. But unfortunately in PSE, if you have more than a couple hundred photos with assigned GPS locations, keyword tagging becomes so slow that it's unusable. This occurs regardless if you open Map view or not.

Not true in PSE5

[johnrellis]

Not true in PSE5
Thanks for the clarification. The original context was GDJoslin asking (many messages ago) about geotagging with the Gisteq in PSE 7.

[gdjoslin]

How often does Adobe release a new version? I have to hope they would fix the GEO TAGGING problem. I would think GEO TAGGING will become more the norm than not.

Thanks
Gary

[Chuck S.]

Unfortunately, Adobe rarely if ever posts updates to a current version of Elements, even in the face of known bugs. We generally just have to wait until the next version comes out, then pay full price (no upgrade option). Something wrong with this picture.....:mad:

[gdjoslin]

Unfortunately, Adobe rarely if ever posts updates to a current version of Elements, even in the face of known bugs. We generally just have to wait until the next version comes out, then pay full price (no upgrade option). Something wrong with this picture.....:mad:


I have never understood that with Adobe. Plus it is usually cheaper to buy it from Amazon or a 3rd party and get a rebate. I have never seen a rebate offer if you download it from their site.

Does anyone know when the next verson will be out?

[johnrellis]

The last many PSE (Windows) versions have come out in the fall.

[gdjoslin]

John any chance that the geotagging issues are related to memory and or processor?

Thanks
Gary

[johnrellis]

Any chance that the geotagging issues are related to memory and/or processor?
I think it’s unlikely. The functionality bugs are easily reproduced. With respect to the performance problems with thousands of geotagged photos, a number of people have reported problems on the Adobe user-to-user forums. I first encountered the problems when I tried to use Map view with PSE 6, and then I explored using third-party software.

I ran scaling tests on two computers, one XP and one Vista, the fastest of which is 4-month-old typical consumer laptop: a dual-core 1.8 GHz, 3 GB, Vista SP1. To build the test, I copied a small photo many times, using a script with “exiftool” to assign unique GPS locations to the copies. The photos were on a 1 minute x 1 minute grid, roughly 1/4 mile apart, in Illinois.

As I added more photos to the catalog, I observed the time it took to apply a keyword tag. That time increased much more rapidly than the number of photos, strongly indicating that PSE was using what’s called an “n-squared algorithm” – the time to apply a tag was roughly proportional the square of the number of photos. With such an algorithm, doubling your processor speed will only allow you to have 40% more photos before you run into the same problem.

Sometimes if I restarted PSE 7 and didn’t open Map view, tagging went quickly. Other times, it still went slowly. After opening Map view, it always went slowly. I wasn’t able to assure myself that if I never opened Map view, I’d be ok.

It’s certainly possible I’ve done something wrong in my test or that there is a workaround I haven’t discovered. You could download the free trial of PSE 7 and try it out with your photos. It would be great if I discovered something wrong in my testing, since I very much want to geotag my photos (but I’m not willing to move my catalog from PSE at this point).

[gdjoslin]

We have a download of PSE7. I was not real keen on upgrading from 6, however the wife wanted to try it. I think it runs better than 6 on my computer (Vista 64). I just noticed that Costco has it on sale for $49.99, so will will order a copy.
I have not ordered a tagger yet, but will at some point.

thanks

[gdjoslin]

How do you get PSE to read the Geodata? I get where you can place it on a map.. but you need the address. I have a couple of photos that were geotagged. I was trying to get PSE to map them.

[TonyW]

That's a good question and I don't know the answer. With existing geotagged images that have GPS coordinates in the metadata I can show the location in Google Maps with Lightroom or with Google Earth in Picasa but in PSE7 I don't seem to be able to do it. You can drag and drop the thumbnail onto the map but all that does is change the coordinates to wherever you drop it. One reason I don't use that feature in PSE - if it worked right you should be able to right click and show on map if it already has been geotagged but it doesn't want to work that way.

Tony

[johnrellis]

I think it runs better than 6 on my computer (Vista 64).

A number of us on the Adobe forums have observed that 7 seems to be zippier than 6.

[johnrellis]

How do you get PSE to read the Geodata? I get where you can place it on a map.. but you need the address. I have a couple of photos that were geotagged. I was trying to get PSE to map them.
If you import photos into PSE 6/7 with GPS locations, they will be placed on the map automatically. When you right-click such a photo, the Show On Map command will be available.

When you import a geotagged photo, what happens when you right-click one of the photos and do Show on Map?

[Codebreaker]

I'm away from my PC at the moment but I seem to recall that in PSE6 if an image has been Geotagged, you do a right click and then Show on Map. Strangely I recall the first time just opens the Map Window with no 'pins' in it. If you do the Show on Map again they then appear.

I'm just working from memory but I think that's what happened for me.

Colin

[gdjoslin]

If you import photos into PSE 6/7 with GPS locations, they will be placed on the map automatically. When you right-click such a photo, the Show On Map command will be available.

When you import a geotagged photo, what happens when you right-click one of the photos and do Show on Map?

I have a couple of photos that have been geotagged. They seem to show in Picasa fine. When I right click on the photo the show on map is greyed out. The same is true in the edit drop down menus. The only option is place of map. If I look at the properties I can see the geodata is there.

[johnrellis]

Hmm, can you post one of the photos on www.pixentral.com (http://www.pixentral.com) (free)? I'll take a look at the metadata and see if it imports into my PSE 7.

[gdjoslin]

Hmm, can you post one of the photos on www.pixentral.com (http://www.pixentral.com) (free)? I'll take a look at the metadata and see if it imports into my PSE 7.


Thanks John. I am heading out the door, but uploaded this images.
http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1PkRIJPbzJ1c6v2dYbVVUoRLCNFsp0

Thanks again

[gdjoslin]

I just noticeed that PSE7 and 6 are not picking up the longitude, Picasa does...

[johnrellis]

I think the metadata of the file you posted is malformed. How was it geotagged?

The PSE 7 Editor does show the coordinates via File > File Info > Advanced.

But the Organizer only picks up the latitude. Microsoft Pro Photo Tools doesn’t pick up either of latitude or longitude. And “exiftool”, widely recognized as the most authoritative metadata tool, doesn’t show either latitude or longitude, and it shows:

---- ExifTool ----
ExifTool Version Number : 7.51
Warning : GPS pointer references previous MakerNotes directory

When you have malformed metadata, it’s a crapshoot as to whether any one particular tool will be able to read it.

[gdjoslin]

It is a sample image from Gisteq. It does work with GeoSetter, and Pacasa, Google Earth.
Crazy.

[johnrellis]

Yeah, that's indicative of malformed metadata. The Gisteq software doesn't appear to have a very good reputation, based on Colin's comments and others. I think Colin uses Geosetter rather than Gisteq to actually tag the photos, which may avoid this problem.

[gdjoslin]

I asked Gisteq if my canon raw was supported. They asked me to send them a photo,
Here is the reply. What is an xmp file.. how do you keep it with the image.
"Yes, the photo you send us is supported by our software. It generates a side card .XMP file where all GPS info is written."

I am looking at another unit also, but have not recieved any files from them. It does not come with software, which it sound like I might not need anyway.
http://www.holux.com/JCore/en/products/products_content.jsp?pno=341
Thanks again for all you help

[johnrellis]

Many applications, such as PSE and Lightroom, store metadata for raw files in "sidecar" files. For example, if you had a Canon raw file "myphoto.cr2", they would create a file "myphoto.xmp" to store metadata and adjustments you've made using ACR. So the Gisteq software stores the GPS location in the .xmp sidecar rather than in the file itself. You have to test the other software you want to use to see if they also look in sidecars (many do).

[gdjoslin]

Does the side car stay with the CR2 file? It looks like it is two different files. I imported both the image into PSE7 and it works, It does work with Geo setter by not with any other softward I have tried.

[Chuck S.]

One software package I considered (PixGPS) only worked with JPEG images, i.e., it wouldn't find and update the sidecar files. OK if you don't shoot RAW, but problematic if you do. The developer said he was going to upgrade the software to address RAW but hasn't done so yet.

[gdjoslin]

Thanks Chuck. If you do not mind the question, what type of unit do you use, and do you like it?
I shoot raw most of the time, so need a way to tag those photos.
Question...once tagged will the geodata say with it if you export it as a jpeg?

thanks

[johnrellis]

Does the side car stay with the CR2 file?
Depends on which application you use to move the file. If you use PSE to move photos and folders, it will move the side cars too. If you use Explorer to move photos (not recommended with PSE), you'd have to make sure to move the side cars along with the raw files. I don't know how other applications behave.

[johnrellis]

Once tagged will the geodata stay with it if you export it as a jpeg?
If you export it from the Organizer with File > Export, yes the geodata gets exported into the JPEG's metadata. But beware that PSE often won't export camera model or exposure information from the raw into the JPEG:

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@405.HNJWi0vbYfx@.59b6ea1c/0

In general, like most photo applications unfortunately, has lots and lots of problems handling metadata correctly. So I advise testing the entire workflow if possible before committing dollars.

[gdjoslin]

That is what I am trying to do, am beginning to wonder if I might be a year or two early with this. I would think Geotagging will be common place some day.

[Chuck S.]

Thanks Chuck. If you do not mind the question, what type of unit do you use, and do you like it?
I shoot raw most of the time, so need a way to tag those photos.
Question...once tagged will the geodata say with it if you export it as a jpeg?

thanks

Gary: My GPS receiver is a Garmin GPSMap 60Cx, and I really like it a lot. I believe Tony W. has (or had) a similar unit, perhaps the 60CSx. I haven't done any geotagging to date, but have downloaded tracks from the Garmin and created overlays for Google Earth. Much fun! Will be better, of course, when I can put pictures in GE as well!

[Chuck S.]

One workaround I considered: shoot RAW plus JPEG, then tag the resultant JPEG. But....that would mean editing the JPEG image instead of the RAW, so it kinda defeats the whole purpose of shooting RAW. So...I punted until another software solution could be found.

[gdjoslin]

Yea I can see where this would be fun. I am considering getting a small unit, shooting raw, then tagging the ones that I edit and save in jpeg form to share.

[Codebreaker]

Hi Folks.....

I'm travelling at the moment and not always near a PC, so my replies are a little sporadic.

The Gisteq Hardware device I have no real problems with but as mentioned before their S/W isn't that good in my opinion. It will actually add the geotags for raw files into the XMP sidecar file. However, I think I found that if you already have an XMP file as a result of pre-processing or tagging in Lightroom or Photoshop, then it might just overwrite the whole XMP file losing all your previous metadata. I haven't tried this on their latest update since rendering of the RAW image anyway was extremely poor. Its no good as an Organiser either.

So what I do is this....

1. Download images into Lightroom
2. Use Geosetter on a folder at a time to Geotag/reverse geocode.
3. Geosetter produces the XMP file
4. In Lightroom select the same folder and update the Metadata for all images.
5. Images in LR are now tagged with Lat/Long etc
6. Add additional keywords and process if necessary in Lightroom
7. LR also uses the Country/State/City/Location data to produce keywords of the same.

I confess to looking for a new GPS unit but only because it would be useful for the hiking we do. Currently on my list is the Garmin Oregon 300 but I don't think Santa will be bringing it this year.

Colin

[gdjoslin]

Colin, Thanks for the help.
Have you ever looked at this unit? I like the fact that it runs on AA batteries. Not sure what software it uses. I know nothing about the different units, just trying to find something to start with.

Thanks

[Codebreaker]

Gary....

Not sure what unit you are refering to. If you post a link I'd like to take a look.

Colin

[gdjoslin]

Yea... I guess it would help If I remembered to post the link:rolleyes:
http://www.holux.com/JCore/en/products/products_content.jsp?pno=341

sorry about that.

[TonyW]

Here's another one.

http://www.photographyblog.com/index.php/weblog/comments/sony_gps_cs1ka_gps_unit_kit/

These all work I believe by synching the time the picture was taken with the location of the GPS until at the same time.

For what I might want to do I would really want to be able to directly record the coordinates into the EXIF data at the time the picture was taken. My GPS unti (a Garmin 60CSx) will plug into recent Nikon DSLR's (D90, D300) but unfortunately not my D80 so I'll have to wait until I upgrade :(

Tony

[Codebreaker]

Gary....

That unit uses the same GPS chipset as mine, so there shouldn't be too much of a problem with it. Of course what else has been added I can't say. Could you not buy it, try it and if not satisfied send it back?

Colin

[Codebreaker]

Tony....

What you hope for seems reasonable and what I would have hoped for too, but I've found out in practise that there are times when the GPS fails to lock and you get some images that wouldn't get a tag. I'm not sure how the camera would cope with that but within the likes of Geosetter it can extrapolate a position using time stamps and data from tagged images either side of the non-tagged image(s). (Hope that makes sense :-)


Colin

[TonyW]

Colin - that makes sense although for the specific purposes I would use it for (mapping) that wouldn't be an issue as I would know if the GPS unit was locked in or not. Actually I really don't do enough of it to merit it - it's just as easy to record the coordinates at the location and manually add it to the EXIF data for the picture I shot when I get back home. I probably just need one of those camera phones with a built in GPS unit :)

Tony

[Codebreaker]

Christmas is coming Tony, so why not wish for the new Nikon D3x or Canon 5Dmk II.

I'm not holding my breath for either :(

Colin

[TonyW]

Christmas is coming Tony, so why not wish for the new Nikon D3x or Canon 5Dmk II.

I'm not holding my breath for either :(

Colin

Now there's a thought but somehow I don't think that's in the cards - slightly off topic I did get a Nuvi 770 as a birthday present and recently had a great time driving around the UK with it - it found some very interesting roads to drive down and it kept me out of the hands of the law by flashing red when approaching a speed camera over the limit. I'm continually amazed at the progress of GPS technology :)

Tony

[gdjoslin]

Well I order the Holux unit. I will report back when I get it and have a chance to play with it.
Thanks for all your help!!!!!!!!!!

[Codebreaker]

Gary....

I'd be interested to know how you get on with it.

Good Luck

Colin

[gdjoslin]

Wednesday I got the Holux M-241. I like the size of the unit and the digital read out. I have read some bad reviews about the battery life. I thought it did fine, It last about 24 hours with a 2500 rechargeable in it. I have not used gps stuff before so I am new at this. I enter the La and Lo reading into Google map and it took me to my house, however it was about a block away. I noticed the digital read out was always changing, is this normal? At time which I entered the readout, it would be about 1/2 mile from my house. It also show speed and distance, this appeared to be okay.
I could never get the device to work on my Vista 64 system. It did work on my vista, but froze now and then. We have one computer with XP and it worked fine on that system. After reading different forums I knew I would have to upgrade the firmware, I did this. It would still only work on the XP system without freezing. I had trouble converting the .trl to something I could use with Google Maps. I never got geosetter, jetphoto, or a few others to read the files and attach to a photo.
The log it made was always different. sometimes it would show a trip around my area, but not close to where I had been. other times it would zoom in on a place in Africa, or South America!!!!! I reloaded the current drivers and firm ware, but that was no help. I emailed Holux, but several of them came back as not valid addresses.:eek:

After all this I make a request with Amazon for a return and mailed it back to them today.. I am still looking for a unit. I would like to have one with a read out. Any thought on a handheld unit that will let me geotag?

Thanks
Gary

[Bob Chadwick]

I ended up getting the Garmin Etrex Venture HC GPS Receiver (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000PDR230/km-20/ref=nosim?gclid=CPCFlbLP0pkCFRJhnAodhEepvQ) and have had good look with it. The thing manages to maintain a lock in the high school gymnasiums where I have been taking basketball pictures in. Evidently any of the Garmin units with the HC designation has increased sensitivity.

There is a free program out there called EasyGPS (http://www.easygps.com/) that can download the tracks with no fuss. The Garmin software will do it as well, but I found it to be cumbersome.

I then use one of two programs to insert the GPS data into the pictures. One of them is Microsoft Pro Photo Tools 2 (http://www.microsoft.com/prophoto/downloads/tools.aspx). I'm at work and can't recall the other but will post it later.

The whole process works great with JPG files. I have not done any using RAW images so I don't know at this point if the software will work.

[Doctor J]

I have just purchased a EYE-FI PRO card. The images displayed in the EYE-FI browser are geotagged. I understand Elements will reconize these tags but I don't know how this works. Any help would be appreciated.

Jim

[johnrellis]

When you import a geotagged image, PSE will import the GPS location along with the image. If you geotag an image after it is already imported into your catalog, select the image in PSE and do Edit > Update Thumbnail, and this will usually bring in the new location.

However, beware that PSE's Map View has many, many problems, and I really can't recommend that you use it. See the section "Map View" in this posting:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/1941005#1941005

[Codebreaker]

Gary.....

I use a Gisteq Phototrackr (yup that's the way its spelt). When I first had it, it worked very well. It would lock on reasonably fast and the accuracy was good. In the last couple of months its started to play up. It wont always lock on the satellites and the accuracy seems to drift off. It certainly has problem locking if your on the move.

I feel a bit bas about this since I was singing its praises to Chuck, who also bought one - sorry Chuck I hope you have better luck.

Right now I have my eye on a Garmin (don't tell the wife, please;)) - I think this will be more reliable.

Geosetter works very well with JPEGs and RAW files.

Colin

[Chuck S.]

Colin, I'm embarrassed to say that I still haven't had time to give the Gisteq a try; it sits in its box, awaiting my taking a holiday where I would travel and take lots of photos. Not sure that will happen this year.

Does Garmin have a special data logger, or are you referring to one of their handheld devices (e.g., Colorado)? I have a 60Cx handheld which has incredible power to lock on and stay that way, even if you drift indoors for a spell. I've even used it successfully on an airplane! The 60Cx and 60 CSx are apparently being cleared from the shelves now, and I've seen them selling for very attractive prices in some advertisements. I hope mine lasts forever; it travels with me everywhere and is equipped with both topo and street maps so I can use it in the field or in the auto.

I'll bet it will do geotagging as well, although I would have to find some software to go with it. I shoot RAW + JPEG most of the time, so probably no worries associated with tagging the JPEGs. The RAW? Perhaps...

[Codebreaker]

Chuck......

Shame on you - toys are for playing with and then discarding to make way for a new one :D

Just about any Garmin will do but I like the look of the Oregon - since we do quite a bit of walking anyway.

Geosetter handles RAW files as well as JPEGs.

Colin

[TonyW]

Chuck......

toys are for playing with and then discarding to make way for a new one :D

Colin

Yup - I've worn out several GPS units in my time. Currently have the 60Cx and a Nuvi 770 for the car (because it came with both North America and Europe maps). Don't really geotag much as I still want to be able to plug my GPS directly into the camera. Unfortunately my D80 won't do it but I think all the newer Nikon DSLR's will let you plug in a GPS - just have to have the right cable. For a D300 you can get a GPS plus cable for $115. Unfortunately the camera is a little more expensive!

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0019T236A/

Tony

[Chuck S.]

Tony, I'm just thrilled with the 60Cx; thanks for your advice on that one! I may buy another one before they disappear altogether from the shelves. In the reviews the 60Cx and 60CSx seem to be holding up quite well against the newer models.

[Bob Chadwick]

For a D300 you can get a GPS plus cable for $115. Unfortunately the camera is a little more expensive!

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0019T236A/



Any idea of the sensitivity of the unit and the impact on the camera's battery life? I really couldn't find any information on this when I was looking so I ended up with the GPS/software solution. I've been using Lightroom and luckily Jeffrey Friedl (http://regex.info/blog/lightroom-goodies/gps) has developed an excellent plug-in that geoencodes both raw and jpg files.

[TonyW]

Any idea of the sensitivity of the unit and the impact on the camera's battery life? I really couldn't find any information on this when I was looking so I ended up with the GPS/software solution. I've been using Lightroom and luckily Jeffrey Friedl (http://regex.info/blog/lightroom-goodies/gps) has developed an excellent plug-in that geoencodes both raw and jpg files.

No idea - and not sure what chip it's using. The latest chips are pretty sensitive and don't take much battery power - most of the power in a handheld GPS unit goes to power the screen I believe. And thanks for the Lightroom plug-in tip. I'll have to try that.

Tony

[Bob Chadwick]

And thanks for the Lightroom plug-in tip. I'll have to try that.

It works great. I just went on a 4 day road trip and it matched each entire day's track log to the pictures with only one or two exceptions.