Oh those crooked horizons!

[Grant]

Now lets Adobe the competition has cool trick for straightening crooked horizons and verticals. While it can be done it Element is so difficult for the average user. The process requires drawing lines, checking angels, removing lines, and hand transposing these values. In Photoshop you have ruler that does this automatically, in fact it make the job so easy it make the competitions tools seem clunky! Why is that tool not in Elements?

Grant

[Wendy]

Grant,

How does it work in Photoshop ... and what so you think the best workaround at the moment for Elements?


Wendy

[Foxhound]

If your not using your crop tool for adjusting your horizons and such then you really are doing it the hard way. I thought everyone did. It's extremely simple and very fast.

Are you not using this tool for that ?

[Grant]

Wendy

In Photoshop you active the measuring tool (under the eye dropper) and draw a measuring line along your horizon. Then go to Image > Rotate canvas > Arbitrary. The angle that the measuring tool read will appear as the default. Click return will cause it the rotation. This procedure is smart enough to recognize vertical as well as horizontal. It takes far less time to do than it took me to type this out.

In Elements first open the Info Pallet. Now go to the Line Tool (accessed by "U"). Draw a line along your horizon and before you commit it note the angle in the info pallet (upper right quadrant third value down) Step back using Ctrl + Z as you don't want this line in your image. Then go to Image > Rotate canvas > Custom. You will have to hand enter this value into the box and then click return. Don't be fooled as the last value use will appear in this box you have to put in the value you noted in the Info pallet.

Grant

[Wendy]

Grant,

Thanks for info ... I didn't know about the measuring tool. What a time saver ... I do seem to have some problems getting the camera to understand about straight horizons. Surely it can't be my fault :oops:


Wendy

[Grant]

Foxhound

For my particular way of working I find the clunk work around faster and more accurate. Faster probably because my hand shake more the older I get. :? More accurate because I can zoom in and work on portions of the image (eyes are not what they use to be so I do have to get closer) :?

Grant

[Foxhound]

To straighten any horizon I just select the entire image with the crop tool, slide the top (or bottom) crop line down to the horizon or any straight object in the image, zoom in as close as needed to see everything, rotate the crop line until they line up, slide the crop line back where it came from and then hit enter to commit the crop. it's straight ;)

My hands and eyes are not what they used to be either which is why I rely so heavily on a tripod whenever possible. I don't have the nerves of steel anymore. As to my eye's, well, I had to give up my Canon AE-1 in favor of an autofocus because I just couldn't see the focus screen well enough to be able to make fairly quick shots. Oh well, let's hope these things don't get worse for either one of us. :?

[Grant]

Foxhound

"Oh well, let's hope these things don't get worse for either one of us"

The do but then you don't notice them any more.

I have a tripod with a leveling device between the tripod and the head and grids on my camera and still the horizon droops. I am beginning to suspect it is the world that is off kilter and not I. I to have moved up to auto this and auto that but can't tear myself away from manual focusing. Something about old dogs and new tricks.

Grant

[MikeH]

Foxhound,

I agree with you - the crop tool is the quickest and easiest way of adjusting horizons. It works wherever you can find a straight edge to work with, yet all tutorials I have seen have several steps (including measuring and remembering angles) before finally using the crop tool to remove white space...

In most cases all you need is the crop tool - it's as simple as that.

Mike

[editor]

Have you tried the "Straighten Image" command? It's under Image>Rotate, and for an automatic command, it often does a very nice job. Plus. it's one simple step so if it doesn't work, it's easy to undo and try something else.

[Hofy3D]

Grant, I use the very same method to fix rotational error in my 3D stereo photography. I have a left and a right image and they need to both be exactly on the same plane to make them easy to view. Rotating by hand or the automatic straighten image command doesnt cut it. I have been using a slide bar on a tripod so it isnt too much of an issue anymore but there are times I have to hand hold and I need to correct the images.

Just thought I'd add, the easiest way I have found to rotate by hand in Elements is to turn the grid on and free rotate the photo to line up with one of the grid lines. Not the best but it makes do with some of my shots.

(For anyone wondering what these 3D stereo pictures look like here are 2 links to some of my photos. You will need to be able to free view or have a viewer to see them in 3D. http://mysite.verizon.net/hofy/dsecweb/index.html
http://mysite.verizon.net/hofy/eagle/index.html

[Chuck S.]

Dave, thanks - that works very well in some test cases I just tried. Don't know how it would deal with a combination of a tilted horizon and some wide-angle 'keystoning'...but I have a couple shots like that I might try as a test!

[Grant]

Have you tried the "Straighten Image" command?


Dave


Thank you, I am aware of the two auto straightening tools in Elements because many may not be therefore it is good to point this out. I have found the results less that predictable and haven't been able to second guess the algorithm that is built into this tool. Hopefully other have.

Grant

[Grant]

Hofy3D

What a wonderful collection of 3D images ... well done.

Grant

[Grant]

I start this thread with the intention point out a weakness that I feel should be addressed. I never intended this thread to be a primer for straightening but I suspect that the direction it has gone is a very good thing for many.

I am well aware to all the tools that are available in Elements and that is why I have come to relay only on Image > Rotate canvas > Arbitrary as an accurate and acceptable method to do the job.

Now back to what I really intended. If you really think the straighten tools that Adobe have given you are good take a trip over to JASC and see how they do it . Then you will realize just how slick it can be done. I really believe that a product targeted for a photographic market should have a very competent horizon straightening tool and there is one just under the surface of elements waiting to be released. Elements is such a wonderful product it just amazes me that some of the most obvious tools have been omitted.

Grant

[MikeH]

Have you tried the "Straighten Image" command? It's under Image>Rotate, and for an automatic command, it often does a very nice job. Plus. it's one simple step so if it doesn't work, it's easy to undo and try something else.

Dave

I have tried the "Straighten Image" and "Straighten and Crop Image" options with varying degrees of success. Sometimes these options work great and on other occasions PE3 is thrown by another line within the picture that it thinks should be the horizon. A recent example is a picture of the pyramids with a slightly crooked horizon that PE flipped through 45 degrees :shock:. I guess it's horses for courses...

The reason why I go straight for the crop tool is that (unless the auto "Straighten and Crop Image" works) you usually finish up having to crop the image anyway, so this makes it one single step.

Mike

[wombat2]

Hey Hofy 3D
Great 3d Wher can we get a vier and can you give an idea of how to do them?
Thank you :P

[Grant]

wombat2

If you get about 18 inches from the monitor and focus the left eye on the left image and the right eye on the right image the 3D effect will kick in. Take a bit of practice at first but once done it becomes very easy to repeat

Grant

[Hofy3D]

Hey Hofy 3D
Great 3d Wher can we get a vier and can you give an idea of how to do them?
Thank you :P

Since this is Grants thread on straightening I have created a new thread on 3D here. http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7080#7080

There are links on how to take and produce 3D photos and also a link where you can purchase a viewer.

[gary-ac12]

I agree with the problem.

The automatic fix produces unpredictable results.

It would be nice to either
- outline with a box the line you want to level, or
- draw a line on the line to level.

I use my MS Digital Image to do leveling, because it's leveling is easier to use. I simply draw a line on the line in the image that I want level (horizontal or vertical). If I made a mistake, I simply don't commit the change.

Considering how cool the "lasso" function is, the leveling function needs to be a lot easier to use, simply to match the competition.

Gary