Photo Printer Opinions

[mrod]

Hey, Printer Experts-

May I run a few things by you?

The Summary:
The idea for creating a Digital Photography elective class for next school year has crested the hill, and is beginning to pick up speed. Looks like it's going to happen. It'll be a 12-week class.

After talking with someone who runs a very successful middle school program, a key component to the success of the program is to display a lot of student work--often, and in different mediums, one of which is print. Kids like to show off their work. Kind of like the rest of us, I guess!

Question 1:
Do any of you have a suggestion for a quality but cost-effective photo printer capable of printing up to 12x18 prints? A bonus but not required would be that it have network capabilities.

Question 2:
OR...considering the initial printer cost, and ongoing consumable costs (ink, paper, etc.) would it be more cost-effective to have prints made at a place like Costco (they charge $2.99 for a 12x18). I guess my question is, how many prints could be ordered (from Costco, or wherever) before having our printer would be more cost-effective?

Thanks!
Mike

[Whiplash-GT]

imo, 12x18 prints will still have to be passed around..
will you be critiquing as a class and learning thru the works of each student?
i'd suggest some sort of "over head projector" that will display the prints, that way the original media only has to be 4x6, 5x7 (minimal cost) and everyone has a chance to see it at the same time on the screen

the overhead would be a one-time cost
a printer would probably be comparable in price (for a decent one), but like you said supplies would have to be replenished...especially at the print sizes you're speaking of

[LeeOtsubo]

...
Question 1:
Do any of you have a suggestion for a quality but cost-effective photo printer capable of printing up to 12x18 prints? A bonus but not required would be that it have network capabilities.
Any printer can be networked if you have multiple workstations. The person on that station may not be happy when print jobs are queued. Cheap print servers can be had for ~US$50. Just be sure they support your printer. Integral network capability shouldn't be an issue.

At PMA, I looked at Canon, Epson and HP. The Epson R1400 is still the best printer for the money if you don't need pigment inks. Canon had some nice offerings. HP, as usual, was lagging and didn't impress. The only thing that really annoys me about Epson is their insistence on pressing the patent infringement cases against 3rd party ink & cart mfgs.

...Question 2:
OR...considering the initial printer cost, and ongoing consumable costs (ink, paper, etc.) would it be more cost-effective to have prints made at a place like Costco (they charge $2.99 for a 12x18). I guess my question is, how many prints could be ordered (from Costco, or wherever) before having our printer would be more cost-effective?

Thanks!
Mike
As I learned in my doctoral program, the answer is, "It all depends!"
How many students are expected to be printing?
How many prints/student are you expecting to print?
How "precise" are your color management requirements?
How many different papers are you planning to use?
What are the archival requirements?
What quality level is required?

I can't give you a precise answer or, for that matter, even a vague answer but those are some things you might consider. As the quality requirements go up, the number of proofs will go up. A proof doesn't cost any less to print than a final at Costco but you might reduce costs by printing 100% crops on your own printer at a smaller size.

I would definitely go with a continuous feed system using bulk inks like InkJetFly (http://www.inkjetfly.com/) or MediaStreet (http://www.mediastreet.com). The ink costs will eat your lunch if you try to use OEM inks.

[mrod]

imo, 12x18 prints will still have to be passed around..

Not sure what you mean by this...could you clarify?

critiquing as a class and learning thru the works of each student? i'd suggest some sort of "over head projector" that will display the prints, that way the original media only has to be 4x6, 5x7 (minimal cost) and everyone has a chance to see it at the same time on the screen

Yep. And this is no problem. I've had a projection system in my classroom for years. In talking with the other instructor, it's also important to display excellent work OUTSIDE of the classroom (i.e. hallways, district office, other public arenas, if possible). Thus, the printing. He prints 12x18, as he said he has found that size has much more impact than 8x10 or smaller.

Mike

[Ric Cisson]

Mike, Local high schools here in my neck of the woods are utilizing Epson R2400, R1800 and the 1400. What I do understand is that the R2400 printers are being utilized for their Black and White capabilities. The R1800 and 1400 printers are their preferred printers and get most of the work generated by the students. A local middle school has 4 of the 1400's and is just fine for that level of work. I have been a visiting professional to most of these schools and have seen the talent these young people have. In fact, and I do not recall what class it was, but I think it was Camp Verde High photo yearbook class took on an instructor challenge of "getting to know Norman Rockwell" through photographs. Students each picked out a Norman Rockwell piece and set up studio sessions to duplicate that particular piece through photography. They submitted, as a class, this project, a total of 10 photos, to a local Arts and Craft festival and came away with the Best of Division and Best of Show award. All the prints were printed on the R2400 and with the help of thier instructor they learned color management and the resultant prints were absolutely wonderful. Everyone who attended the festival also got to vote for peoples choice, and they won that prize as well. (By the way I was one of the three judges that juried their work.)

As for networking, I am not aware of any problems that anyone had with any of the Epson printers.

Additionally, a couple local charter schools have Canon Pixma Pro 9000 printers for their classes and they are equally happy. I am not aware of them being networked, though.

[Whiplash-GT]

i was just saying that even an image that size would have to be passed around the classroom for everyone to truly get a good look at it
sure it's a larger than normal image, but when you have say 20+ students all talking about it and needing to look at it at the same time......

displaying outside the classroom does warrant the need for printed media, carry on :)

[mrod]

Lee-

Thanks for your insights and expertise. I share your Epson annoyance, but they make a nice product...

Ric-

Again, thanks for the insight, and also the examples of specific models. What, by the way, are your topics/roll as a visiting pro?

Whiplash-

Thanks for clarifying. I was just confused about "passed around" as my mind was in the "let's hang a picture on the wall" paradigm, while it sounds like yours was in the "reviewing/critiquing in the classroom" mode. Both valuable, of course! In fact, the teacher I met with often critiques, and he said when he points out a technique or style that really worked well in a particular image, he invariably gets in short order a whole slew of images trying to replicate that particular style. The best form of flattery...:D

Thanks again, everyone. It'll be awhile before we decide, but I'll keep you posted. I'm excited about getting our program off the ground.

Mike

[Codebreaker]

I run evening classes for adults at a local school where we have multiple installations of PSE4 and have a single Epson R800 attached to one workstation but shared so that anyone can use it. So here's some problems we've run into.....

The printer problem we ran into is the 'anyone can use it'. Although the printer was specifically for our group - since we bought it - we found the kids during the day would frequently print things to the wrong printer queue - ours. It wasn't attached during the day so this meant that when we came in, in the evenings and connected it up it would instantly try to print out scores of documents. Wasteful of time and consumables.

We had not user rights to be able to kill the print queue. In the end we decided to just have the printer installed on one workstation and not shared. Students now have to take there images on a memory stick to the workstation and print from there. Still couldn't get the IS dept to understand the need to install the paper profiles, though.

Be also aware that PSE isn't overly network friendly particularly in a school situation where drive space on the network may be limited for each user and Priviledges are usually very basic which prevents students from screwing up the machines. This has meant that we frequently have to clear out old images and occassionally PSE has problems finding the catalogs. It's not unusual for us to go in one evening and find the IS dept has ran an update on something during the day which has screwed up PSE.

Colin

[Ric Cisson]

Mike,

Professional visit topics varied from visit to visit and school to school. My latest visit to a charter school, I was asked to discuss the direction of photography as an art as opposed to a "geek appearance" as brought about by technology. Other visits have included discussing the direction of the photo industry as far as the finishing process is concerned, a discussion of film vs digital (which was really more fun than it sounds because I brought props from out the the darkroom days), a discussion of the print today (as it relates to majority of images are never printed), and the most popular discussions seem to revolve around technical aspects of photography; Composition, Exposure, Lighting, Macro, Portrait, Landscape and Nature. (By far Composition and Exposure are in most demand locally, and I might be asked to present each twice a year by the same school.)

I started this years ago while operating my photolab locally. I felt with all the questions that were asked at the counter, an informational program was needed. So I started conducting classes at the lab, which eventually by word of mouth spread to some to the local schools and other organizations. I had fun providing these educational sessions, and it really took off in 2002 about the time digital really became of age and film started in recession. There is a lot of work involved in preparing for each session/visit, but believe me, before I retired, I not only worked hard at providing a quality presentation, I had fun, alot of fun, brought about by the responses and feedback of those that I spoke to and with. I still do the sessions since retiring, but only with youth groups, senior groups and local schools. It is indeed for me, extending the passion I have for the career in Photography and Photo Finishing into my retirement years.

I would recommend that you talk to a local lab owner, get his or her perspective of photography as they experience in their lab, get recommendations or referrals from them of local photographers that might be able to assist in the schools program, and referrals to Photoshop gurus locally that have that natural ability to assist in instruction.

I don't know that this answers your question, but pro visits are fantastic for the students, because one thing that I did not mention earlier, I have 10 minutes at the end of each visit for questions and answers and it never ceases to amaze me as to the level of interest judging by the number of questions in those 10 minutes. Only in the last year did I start handing out a card for questions which was collected by a chosen individual. I would select a card read the question, acknowledge the student by asking him or her to stand up while I responded, and if I could not answer all questions from the collected cards, I take the balance of those cards home with me and respond personally to each question and e-mail those responses back to the class instructor to share with the students. You can not believe how that has stimulated and fostered an genuine interest in these classes.

So in summation, there are many benifits from a professional visit program. Provide a topic of discussion in advance of the visit for whomever you invite and watch it grow and watch your students grow too. Good Luck and Have Fun!

[mrod]

Colin-

Thanks for sharing your experiences in the lab. And boy, do some of those sound familiar! I've taught in a computer lab for the last 13 of my 16+ years of teaching, and have fought every one of those battles. I will say, though, that our district has a great IT department, and we now have a lot of things in place that have put a halt to some of the printing issues. Fortunately, I have enough permissions to do various things, such as kill printer queues. As for the installs, I have a lab license for PSE, so every machine has it's own copy. Student accounts have been given permission to run that executable, but they can't mess anything up. We also have a district license for Paint Shop Pro, so we use that as well. Most like PSE better.

Ric-

Thanks to you as well for your very thorough answer! I would like to look into those possibilities. I think hearing from experts in the field would be a great experience for them. So many kids have tunnel vision and have a difficult time seeing value in what happens in school. It's always nice to have a fresh perspective from the "real world." You're not planning on moving to Washington, by any chance, are you? :D

Thanks again, guys,
Mike

[Ric Cisson]

Mike, no I am not planning to move to the great Pacific Northwest, as tempting as it might be, I had a tour of duty at Whidbey Island in the 80's and still have friends living up there in your part of the country. I have been known to travel...you can take it from there;)