Opening Raw Files

[Rose]

The answer to this question is probably simple.

I have a Canon 20D camera and I shot some pictures in jpeg + raw mode (aperature priority mode). I want to experiment with raw files.

I was under the impression that I could load raw files directly in PSE3. I go to file, open, all file types, and all I find is jpeg files. Am I missing something here? I have some great pictures that I know are a little over exposed and I can't wait to experiment with them!

Thanks so much!

[mhtaylor]

First you need the RAW update available from the adobe site at http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=40&platform=Windows (you need to create a login to get it).

Now the organizer will recognize RAW files so that you can see and preview them. To edit them they need to be converted into some other format. Selecting a file from the organizer for edit will bring up the RAW converter utility first where you can play with many settings including exposure. When you've finished the converter creates a PS compatible file in memory to edit in PSE. When use save in the editor you will then have the opportunity to choose the type of file (jpg, psd, etc.)

Hope this helps - Martin

[e-mailsucks]

Thanks for asking the question Rose, because I'm going to be doing exactly the same as you're talking about. Thanks for answering Martin, now when I get home it's time to do some download updates.

Brian

[e-mailsucks]

Hi Martin. I took a RAW photo and opened it in PSE 3 in the RAW editor. After finishing, I clicked save, and I got a drop down box asking me in what format. It only offered me DNG or dng. Why do I only get those two options? Any idea's on how to get more options?

Brian

[Tom M]

Try converting to 8 bit mode.

[Carbone]

Converting to 8 bits or 16 bits had no effect, the only save options from within the RAW converter is DNG. But that's ok because if you want to save it under a different format, PSE will let you (TIFF, PNG, Jpeg2000, etc.). And while being in the RAW converter, you can only save in a raw format, DNG being one sponsored and created by Adobe, it makes sense.

Ray

[Tom M]

Ha!
I just realized that I never updated from 2.3.

[msmack]

Don't go to save, go to open. It will open in the Editor and you can save in any format you want.

Merrill

[Wendy]

Hi there ....

For anyone who needs help with using Camera Raw I would suggest doing the Digital Photography Workflow online classes.

There are several lessons on editing Raw images and Scott Kelby walks you through the process ... its really good because you are able watch the Video and see how it is done. ... the rest of the classes are good too :)

Wendy

[Carbone]

I just notice this book on Amazon this morning :

http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0321384008/qid=1129802369/sr=8-7/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i7_xgl14/701-7718248-3300355

Getting Started with Camera Raw: How to make better pictures using Photoshop and Photoshop Elements
by Ben Long (Author)

It's not out yet, but November is only a couple of weeks away. And the title says Elements... since the Camera Raw works differently in Photoshop and Photoshop Elements, this book is worth checking I'd say!

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

Bonjour Ray. I'm still stuck. Every time I open up my DNG file, it takes me into the RAW editor. I can't do anything in PSE until I close the editor. Then of course, the picture is gone as well. When I open PSE and select the DNG file on my desktop, my RAW editor opens with the picture in it. This is starting to get frustrating. Any wisdom is much appreciated. Notice that I started speaking a little French at the beginning. :D

Brian

[Tom M]

Click Open in the RAW window.

[e-mailsucks]

Thanks Tom, I'll try it when I get home from work. I took a look at your pictures, very nice. I'd love to see the Grand Canyon some time.

Brian

[Carbone]

Brian,

Here's a short movie to show you how it's done :

http://homepage.mac.com/Carbmac/PhotoshopElements002.mov

Ray

[Tom M]

Ray, those movies are great, I wish the program was less than $70.

Let's here some narration on the next one.

[Carbone]

Let's here some narration on the next one.

Are you serious? You really want to drag PET site to oblivion ? ;-)

I'll see what I can do. I don't like my voice (I know, who does) and I don't have a real studio so there's going to be a lot of echo.

I could, though, do as the old movies, put in title slides in between two scenes and add background piano... all in B&W.. ;-)

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

Merci Ray. Did you just do the video? That's fantastic, or even brilliant. That works better than typing instructions. Thanks so much.

Brian

[Carbone]

Bienvenue, Brian :-D (it's funny to speak French here!!)

Yes, I did it just for you. It doesn't take much time (recording and encoding). What can take time is preparing the environment (cleaning the desktop so it doesn't look too distractive), and repeating the moves (so that I don't look too silly !!). It's sometimes faster for me because I don't have to translate my French Canadian thoughts to English words... hehe!

Glad you liked it. If you need to see anything else, let me know.

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

Thanks again Ray. I'm going to take you up on the video offer, just now right now. What are you using to make these video's? Is it a camera or software?

Merci beau cou,

Brian

PS. I know, I spelled it wrong, but the thought was there.

[Carbone]

The important thing is to try :-D (I keep telling myself this as I'm trying to learn a few more difficult software.. !!)

I'm using Snapz Pro X 2. It's expensive, but it's the best there is. It does movies & screen captures very easily. Because you can draw a selection (rectangular marquee tool like), you can film only a portion of the screen. When I need to show something very particular, I use this function. I can also have it put watermarks if I want (when I shot something for the school, I usually use this option).

It also taps into Quicktime, so I can save in many different formats, enabling compression while keeping a good quality.

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

Sounds expensive. But, it makes for a more enjoyable program. My thought is, "you're always reminded why it was cheap, but you will forget the cost if it always works well". Thanks again Ray.

Brian

[Rose]

Hello!
I'm back! My internet service went out for a couple of days so I was unable to try the RAW update plug-in. Well, now I believe I've loaded it correctly, but when I go into Photoshop, I still only see jpeg files (I had saved them as jpeg + RAW.

Brian, can you tell me the steps you went through when you loaded the plug-in, or if anyone else has any ideas of what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks!
Rose

[e-mailsucks]

Hi Rose, nice to see you back again. When I downloaded my pic's from my camera, they were downloaded as CRW, which is Canon's format for RAW. I open up PSE3 and selected the file that was on my desktop. It opened up my RAW Editor and I did some adjustments to the picture, and then thanks to Ray's video, I then clicked the open button and the picture was transferred into PSE3. I then could name it anything I wanted. From now on, "It's Raw all the way, Baby". I'm not saying that to you in a derogatory way, just a Fraze. I'm going to recheck where and how I installed the update for RAW because I don't think I did it quite right. Maybe the older version of RAW works for me. After I finish checking my update, I'll be back to you. I believe it depends on what manufacturer of camera you have as to what tag they put on their pictures. I was just at my photography class last night and one of the students could only save in tiff or jpeg. The teacher said that was fine since tiff is lossless compression, but he still thinks RAW and Elements is the tool of choice for photographers and photo editors in general. Ok, Ok, I could go on and on now and it will start to get boring to you, so I'll let you go and I'm off to check my install of RAW. Later...

Brian

[e-mailsucks]

Hello again Rose. I didn't install it quite right, but I have now with no problems. Here is what I did;

Exit Photoshop Elements.

Open My Computer.

Double-click Local Disk (C:).

Navigate to Program Files\Adobe\Photoshop Elements 3.0\Plug-Ins\File Formats.

Move the existing Camera Raw.8bi plug-in to another location (for example, a new folder on your desktop). Ensure you keep this version in case you need to revert back.

Copy the Camera Raw plug-in, Camera Raw.8bi, from the download into the same folder as Step 4.

Launch Photoshop Elements.

Let me know how you do. :?

Brian

[Rose]

Brian,

I followed the same steps you outlined, but when I copied the new file into the folder, I double clicked on it to open it. After it opened the file it went right into Photoshop, but I only saw jpeg files.

I have a Canon 20D camera and the mode where I have it set is supposed to save the file as jpeg and crw, hmmm....

I did try loading the picture in the Canon software for RAW files, and I could load it up there, but that software has a lot less options than PSE3.
:cry:
Rose

[Carbone]

Does this help ?

http://homepage.mac.com/carbmac/Opening_Raw.mov

Ray

[GaryK]

Brian

Are you on a Mac as well as Ray?
My RAW conversion popup doesn't have a save button. Maybe I'm on a bit older version. Once I've made my adjustments I hit OK and it automaticlly takes me to the edit screen..and I save from there.

Just wondering. :)

[e-mailsucks]

Morning Gary. I have a PC with Windows XP Home Edition with Service pack 2 installed. My RAW Editor has a save button, but will only save it as a DNG file. When you open the DNG file, up pops the RAW Editor. But after watching Ray's great movie, I'm now a professional. Well, in my mind anyway. :D

[e-mailsucks]

Hi Rose. Are you sure your settings are right on the camera? The student in our class has a Canon that saves hers in TIFF & JPEG. I have a Canon and I can select RAW as a separate file format. When I download my images, it's all RAW files, no JPEG's. Do the RAW ones that you get come out as a CRW file?

Brian :?

[Carbone]

I just want to add that it's not necessary to save a RAW files in DNG. You can open your RAW file in the RAW converter, then click on Open and the picture, converted, will be transferred in the Editor (Windows) or Photoshop Elements (Mac) directly, ready to be edited.

It's the same thing as having a Word document and saving it in PDF before printing. You can open the document in Word and print it from Word, no need to use an intermediary format.

Ray

[GaryK]

Brian

Thanks..I'm not sure why mine is so different :D

Like I said I have no choice but to hit OK or Cancel..Ok takes me right into the editor (I'm opening from the file browser first)

[Tom M]

Get the 3.2 plugin. :wink:

[Carbone]

Are you on a Mac as well as Ray?

Yes, I've switched over a year ago to the Mac side.

:lol: :lol:

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

Hey Ray, how do you find the Mac? I've always been a PC man, but I sure like the desktop of the Mac. I wish Windows could steel some of their idea's, or buy them since Bill's loaded. Do you find that there's enough of choices of software out there? I've always worried that if I ever switched sides I wouldn't be able to replace my software, besides, what a cost that would be. Or, does the new Mac operating system support some of the PC software?

Brian

[Wendy]

Hi Brian ...

Well I suppose that the best place to start is ... what software do you use at the moment?

Wendy

[Carbone]

Brian,

The Mac platform has just about every possible software imaginable (and in some areas, the best and some unique applications). Microsoft Office, Microsoft Messenger, Windows Media Player, Real Player, Macromedia Flash, Adobe Photoshop Elements and Creative Suite, Corel Painter, Final Cut, etc. Software, really, is not an issue. You'll find everything, sometimes just not from the same publisher. There's also Virtual PC, a software which enables you to run Windows (almost any flavour) on your Mac. I use it for cases when I have to run Microsoft Access (the only Office app not available on the Mac) or when I have to support my Windows friends. And I use it to understand PSE 4 for Windows ;-)

A Mac comes loaded with standard apps which, on the PC, cost hundreds and hundreds of dollars. Example: iPhoto (like Organizer), iDVD (a full featured software to create your own movie and slide show dvd), Garage Band to play music (if you've got the talent, which I lack), Quicken, etc.

Amongst available third party applications are more serious stuff like Quicken and Quickbook, possibly the world's best personal accounting software, FileMaker Pro for database management, MySQL if you want more powerfull database management, runs under Mac OS X, RealBasic (it's a Visual Basic like application and even Microsoft supports interaction with it in its Office suite). There's the standard AppleScript programming language, and Apple ships all their computers with XCode, the complete dev environment. You'll also find some very powerful authoring software (for book writers), some nice educational applications for children, etc.

Compatible hardware includes the most recognized brands (Canon, Epson, HP, Lexmark, Logitech, Wacom, Microsoft, Palm, etc.). Cameras, scanners, printers, joysticks, mice and keyboard, look on the box, most of the times, you'll see a Mac OS compatibility chart. What's different is, sometimes, you need to log on the company's website to get the Mac drivers (i.e. Logitech). But that's no problem. Also, often, a software publisher only makes one box for both platform. And being that there are more PC than Mac, their software is not displayed in the Mac section, but rather in the PC. That's the case with Corel Painter, for example.

Quite frankly, with today's widely accepted standard document formats (JPEG, PDF, DOC, PSD, MOV, WMV, XLS, etc), switching to the Mac is more about what you gain in terms of funcitonalities and increased system security. There are applications for just about every type of documents one can have on a PC.

I made the switch and had no problems doing it. Since then, 5 of my friends switched as well. And I didn't even convinced any of them. They saw my machine, used it for a few hours, and were convinced it was better for them.

Ray
P.S. No, I'm not paid by Apple :-D

[Carbone]

Also, next time you're close to a Mac reseller, bring a CD-R with a sample of your documents on it. Any Apple Store will be glad to help you open your documents on a Mac to show you how simple it works :)

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

Somehow Wendy, I knew you'd be along for this one. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I know you love your Mac, which from what I've read, you probably should. Now you have to keep in mind, I've had my PC for 12 years now and have 40 gigs of software on it. I will name just a few of the major programs that I have;

Microsoft Office XP
Photoshop Elements 3
Norton System Works
Roxio CD/DVD Creator 7.5
Microsoft Streets & Trips 2005
Norton Ghost
Partition Magic
Paintshop Pro 9
Winfax Pro 10-3
Microsoft Links 2003
Windows XP Home Edition
Microsoft Works
Incredimail
Canon Software (at least 6 programs)

That's probably my more expensive programs and I have a host of the $50.00 variety. Now to replace all of the above with a Mac version is going to put the cost of a new computer through the roof. I sometimes wish I would have started with a Mac, but I heard that the software is always an issue for them. Meaning, it's not always available. Do you find that an issue?

Brian :D

PS. Do you know where the chat session is?

[Carbone]

Some manufacturers (Adobe for example), offers to transfer a licence from Windows to Mac for a minimal fee (the cost of the CD + shipping, something like).

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

Ray, so do you know if people build their own Mac's? I've built my last 3 computers, plus computers for my friends. I prefer to hand pick my hardware, instead of the manufacturer picking it for me. I've never had a computer fail on me, because of a hardware issue. Some friends have bought major brand name PC's and have had motherboard failures, hard drive failures, and even ram failures. With all the anti-virus programs available, and I have a router, (firewall) so I don't worry about worms and such. From what I've read about Vista, (Windows new operating system) it's supposed to have extremely high security. I know that the PC is the main target for malicious attacks, but it's just because they're the most popular PC. I saw a Mac about 7 years ago and really liked it's features, and as for today's, they look awesome. I just hate paying retail for a pre-built computer. I'm also a gamer and need powerful video cards as well. I would probably have to take lessons on how to speak Mac. :lol:

Brian

[Carbone]

First, no, you can't build your Mac from off the shelf parts. You can get a custom built Mac from Apple (bigger video card, more RAM, etc.). That's what I did.

Video cards : There are two manufacturers of video card which fully support the Mac : ATI and NVidia. Now, I know next to nothing about PC card nowadays but for the Mac I can tell you I have an ATI Radeon 9800 Mac SE with 256MB of RAM. I guess that's enough to play Pac Mac ;-)

Seriously, 3D games are not an issue for any modern era Mac. If you take an 8 years old Mac, now, this could be a problem. Except for the Mac mini, which has a limited graphics card, all the others are well equiped to play massively 3D rendered games (Sim City 4, Doom, Star Trek Voyager Elite Force, The Sims, etc.) In fact, I have The Sims (with various expansion packs) and Star Trek Voyager, as well as Sim City 4. I'm not a real computer game player, though, I much prefer console games (put the disk, fire up the console, and play, no messing with drivers and Open GL configurations..)

I won't debate Windows security here. Let's just say that of course, the more users attract the more hackers, but there are inherent security problems with all Windows version because it was never built with network support in mind. Windows' network facilities were always added after the code was writen (TCP/IP isn't native to Windows, it's an extension of the system). Mac OS, on the other, is UNIX and network has been in UNIX from the beginning. Mac OS is based on Open Source core, this insured more people knows how it operates and more people can relate security issues and fixes. Microsoft pays for that, and sometimes, when you pay for something, you tend to spend the least money possible to be profitable (pure business laws).

There are several Anti-Virus for Mac (Norton, McAffee with Virex, Intego, etc.) but honnestly, there has been no active virus on the Mac for the last 4 years. This doesn't mean there will never be. But also, the way the OS works, you need a password to install a system wide application, and only your account can be affected. It's UNIX security. It's been polished for decades and decades now.

One more thought, you don't buy a Mac to upgrade it routinely. You buy it to use it and to get rid of the adminstrative tasks of system maintenance, memory upgrade, video card upgrade, processor swapping, etc. Now, I don't imply these are not fun. When I was on the PC, I used to upgrade my machine almost every 10 months to keep it current and capable. Though it was fun back then, I found that I like it better to spend more time in front of Illustrator than the illustration of the dissambling instructions of the motherboard :-D

You buy a Mac, you set it up (get it out of the box, connect the cables), turn it on, answer 4 ot 5 questions, and you're on the Internet. The fun begins. Mac remain capable machines for much longer than a PC because Mac OS doesn't cost more in terms of system resources with each passing versions. My iMac G3 333Mhz (a 1998 computer) runs Mac OS X 10.3.9 (beginning of this year's latest Mac version) quite rapidly. And I can do 3D rendering, Photoshop Elements, play iTunes, import music, etc. Sure, it's not blazzing speed, but compared to any 1998 PCs running Windows 98, it does more with less :-D

Ray

[GaryK]

Tom M

Thanks.. I thought that might be the issue. For now I'm Ok, it works for me and I'm still just dabbling with RAW. :)

[e-mailsucks]

That was very inspirational Ray. Are you sure you're not employed by Mac? That was encouraging to hear that upgrades aren't an annual event. I usually upgrade at least yearly. I currently have a Pentium 4, 2.8ghz, 1024megs of ram, and two 60 give hard drives. I have an Nvidia Geforce 4 5800 video card with 256megs of ram. It plays all the 3-D games I've ever wanted to play, perfectly. So at this very moment, I don't need an upgrade. I do think though, that when the time arrives, I'm definitely going to look at the Mac. Thanks for all your experience using one. Don't you sometimes miss Windows though?

Brian

[Carbone]

Brian,

Miss Windows? To be honnest, after a full day of tech support (my job), I can definitively say... NO :-D

And especially when a Windows friend calls and says "I think there's something wrong because I keep getting an image of Britney Spears tell me my hard drive is toasted" (ok, another virus case)...

Ray
Edit : No, I'm not an Apple employee!! My brother had a Mac for like 10 years before I finally look at his computer and realized he could do all that and still have some resources left for the other pleasant things (mp3, etc.) I took a close look, and I was convinced. But, I respect other's decision of keeping a Windows machine. To each his own and everyone will be happy!

[GaryK]

Ray

I used to service for Apple .. do they still do "in-home" sevice?

[Carbone]

Yes, they do, with AppleCare. I have it for my PowerMac. Since it's a production machine (no machine, no class), I needed to have this kind of service.

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

Ray, are you kidding me? You're a Tech Support Person for Microsoft? Like, you and Bill are buds? My sister-in-law used to work for Microsoft. That's how I own so much Microsoft stuff. I do think Mac has some great idea's. Leo Laporte and Amber (Call for Help TV) really endorse Mac. I just might go and at least look at a Mac tomorrow, who knows...

Brian

[Tom M]

Brian...... come to the light. http://homepage.mac.com/tommurray2/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/smile/splash_apple.gif

[Carbone]

No, I'm tech support for a telco. I'm MS certified, though, but don't tell them I'm on a Mac... I don't like tall men in dark suits showing at my door at 4 in the morning ;-)

Ray

[Wendy]

Brian ....

Well it looks like everyone has answered your questions ... and there is not much left for me to say :)

I suppose that we must have had Macs (at home) for about 15 years now ... although I was a Windows user a work. I changed over so long ago that I can't even remember the change. Windows was still in its infancy way back in those days :)

I like lots of things about my Mac ... its hassel free, needs only a little maintainence, looks so wonderful and zips along very nicely ... but most of all it behaves itself.

..... and all the kids think that it is way cool !!.

We were in Birmingham the other week looking at things in Micro Anvika ( a large computer store) and a group of students were stood around a PowerMac G5 ... one said "One day I will have a G5" and I just couldn't resist saying ... I have one!! Well 3,000 questions later I carried on shopping ....

......Ummm first time in a long time that a teenager has taken any notice of anything I said :)

Wendy

[Carbone]

..... and all the kids think that it is way cool !!

Grown ups as well! Often I will get asked questions about Mac when I take my Powerbook (laptop) out in the bus or during lunch.

Most people, and that's the funny part, think Microsoft hates Mac so much that they don't publish a thing for the Mac platform. So when I show them Office & Messenger, that's when I'm having the most fun :)

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

I find one thing common amongst Mac Owners, the love their Mac's. I don't hear PC users saying I love my PC and Windows. Windows is boring compared to a Mac. On Call For Help you sometimes are watching their screens and I see the graphics on the Mac desktops and think, why doesn't Windows have those eye pleasing graphics. I know if I switch sides I'm going to miss building them. It is very gratifying to start with a bunch of boxes and a metal case and in a couple hours it's all up and running smooth. But yes I agree, Windows is Maintenance. I just wonder how many of my programs can be reinstalled onto a Mac. Can I email documents from work home to me to work and edit? Does Office for Windows work on a Mac as well? I have just purchased a new 19" LCD monitor, and from what I understand, Mac's come with monitors. This is going to be worse than quiting smoking, and I did that 12 years ago. But I do think I would love my Mac as well.

Brian :D

[Wendy]

Brian ...

I have always loved my Macs ... but the new one is wicked http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/loveshower.gif (http://www.millan.net)


Wendy

[Carbone]

It's not the same CD, if that's what you mean, but yes, Office works for Mac. You need to contact Microsoft and they'll probably help you switch (i.e. exchanging your CD, sort of). Adobe did that with me, I switched from Photoshop 7 for Win to CS for Mac.

Ray

[Carbone]

And yes, I love my Mac. It's almost like part of the familly. We go somewhere, we bring the laptop. And almost on every occasions, it's helpful (like helping a friend picking a matchin colour for her furniture, or showing how to photoshop something, showing slideshows, etc.)

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

Gees you guys, I've never thought of my computer as one of the family. I couldn't be without it mind you. It's an electronic piece of equipment that processes 0's and 1's. But now you've really peaked my curiosity, so I have to go and at least look at one close up & personal today. I wonder if they emit something that sucks you into loving them???

Brian :D

[e-mailsucks]

Wendy, I don't know what it is about you, but every time I read your threads, I either smile, or bust out laughing. Your emoticons are so good.

Brian

[Wendy]

Brian ...

Maxie (my new Mac) just bring out the best in me and makes we want to

http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/choir.gif (http://www.millan.net)


Wendy

[e-mailsucks]

Oh Wendy, stop it, you're killing me. :lol: :lol: :lol: You've named your computer too!

Brian

[Wendy]

Brian ...

I always name my Macs ... the last one was the cool half snowball shape and ... she was called Shu-Shu :)

Out laptop ... an iBook of course is called mini Mac :) :)

... but Maxie is out of this world http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/putersmile1.gif (http://www.millan.net)


Wendy

[e-mailsucks]

Hi Maxie, I think your mom has a VIRUS :shock:

Brian :lol: :lol:

[Wendy]

Brian ...

Question from Maxie ...

Whats a Virus?? ...

Now Brian he is a Mac and they don't understand the word Virus ... so he thinks I am sane. Little does he know http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/balloons.gif (http://www.millan.net)


Wendy

[e-mailsucks]

One day Wendy, Maxie and I are going to have a talk without you listening in. Oh my God, I think I've got the virus now.

Brian :lol:

[Wendy]

Brian ...

You are starting to sound like Mac owner :)


wendy

[Carbone]

Me think Brian is gonna a visit to an Apple Store soon :-)

Ray

[Wendy]

Ray ...

Methinks he is going to fit in there just fine :)


Wendy

[Tom M]

You know what they say...
Once you go Mac, you never go bac.

[Wendy]

Tom ...

Groan ....


Wendy

[Carbone]

Reading this, earlier today, about Mac security :

http://www.macnn.com/articles/05/10/24/mac.os.x.inherently.secure/

Ray

[Wendy]

Ray ...

Umm that is quite interesting :)

Wendy

[e-mailsucks]

:shock: Holly Gees you guys. If and when I buy a Mac, I don't know if I've bought a new computer or joined a cult. You guys should all go and lay down for a while and just hum to yourselves. There has to be a cure for your illnesses. I'm very concerned...

:D Brian

[Carbone]

It's not a disease, it's pure fun (and, believe me, it's contagious !!)

:-)

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

Ray...

I've heard of this phenomena. It's called possession. I think you all have been possessed by the Mac Demon from the dark side. Take a warm bath with the lights out with candles around the bath tub. I will send a Priest to you guys houses to have an exorcism performed. I will pray tonight for you guys.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Brian

[e-mailsucks]

Just a post script to the previous thread. Remember, if you're a Mac user, you don't realize that you're possessed, it's only a PC user that can see it.

Brian

[Carbone]

Brian.. too funny !!!

(Incidently, I had a bath with two candles, last night, but it wasn't for religious reason though.. )

Seriously, I never saw a Mac owner who did not, at some level, more or less cared for his or her computer. I don't know what's up with that, but it's very common. That being said, when you care for something that much, you tend to maintain it in good working condition and make sure nothing will never happen to it.

Just as I like my car almost as much as my computer, my home teather as much as my computer, I try to keep them in their best possible condition :-D

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

Hey Ray...

I too keep my PC in perfect working order. I'm caught between a new Mac or a new operating system like Vista. I checked at Apple's Website and saw that a G5 tower only is around $2300.00. Do you know how much PC hardware I could buy for $2300.00? Is a Mac that much better than a PC? I know what I said on the previous threads is true after I go and see the Mac salesman. If her/his eyes should glaze over while they're talking about the Mac, I know that they too are possessed. I'll let you know of my findings. If the Mac's are so good, why does only 10% of the computer population own one? Do you think that it's just the price and only the 6 figure income earners own one?

Brian :D

[Tom M]

Do you know how much Mac hardware you can buy for $2300? :wink:

[e-mailsucks]

I didn't even know you could. I'll have to check with my PC hardware parts supplier and see about Mac stuff. Thanks Tom

Brian :shock:

[Carbone]

True, Mac are more expensive at the cash register, but what you get is more than just a computer. You get a full suite of software, phone support, 1 year warranty (build yourself kits usually come with 90 days warranty), you also buy an OS which is full of features not found elsewhere (Exposé, Spotlight, Core Video, etc.) On this subject, make sure you try Exposé. You're gonna love it!

Also, you don't upgrade or change a Mac as often as you would with a PC. If your annual PC budget for upgrading is around 500$ (over the course of 12 months, that's not much in the PC world), you'll never spend that on a Mac. You can easily run a Mac for 5 or more years (my brother had his for 9 years before encountering serious problems of compatibility with the rest of the world) whitout feeling obsolete or waiting minutes when your favorite app is loading. At first, you may spend a little more, but at the end, you'll save a whole lot of money.

As to market share, I'm not an expert, so I can't offert scientific explanation. People buy cheap because they think savings at the cash is great. Once they get home, they try to burn a slideshow on a DVD and go "oops.. my pc can't do that, I need a piece of software.." And there starts the spending wheel. Or they steal software (piracy).

Now, why they don't buy Mac in the first place ? Well, a few years ago, Mac were almost nowhere to be found. You had to get to a very specialized place, or order it online. Think back 4 years ago, on-line spending wasn't a big thing and it was considered highly unsecured to buy anything online. Nowadays, it's different. There are Mac everywhere you look, on-line retailers are offering lots of Apple hardware and third party compatible products, Apple market share is not the rise big time.

There is also the fear generated by competitors. If you buy a Mac, you won't be able to open your documents, or no software runs on Mac, or no hardware is compatible with a Mac. All false arguments, of course. I told you about software in an earlier post.

Finally, you need to know about those who speak of Mac. There's no one better qualified to talk about a given product than one who actually owns it, right ? Well, in PC Tech industry, there were few columnists who were using Mac (were, because now there are more and more), so it made sense they would pray for their PC, out of ignorance about a Mac. And when you hear bad things about a Mac, ask yourself, does this person knows what he/she is talking about ? If you're lucky, they will tell you they used a Mac 7 years ago for 2 minutes and there it is, they have an honnest opinion.. LOL! But, usually, the answer is no, they've never actually owned one, they just read or heard about it, vaguely... in a PC magazine :-D

To conclude, as with everything, trying is the best way of knowing. I like my Honda because I tried it first, I did a road test, and I was happy. I got a NAD amplifier because I listened to 5 other brands and none had the warmth of my NAD. I have a Sony DVD player because it was the only one with two audio out RCA jack... you get the point. I tried it and I liked it :)

It's funny because my 5 switcher friends switched because they saw, not because I forced them to. And my two PC friends who just got new machines told me this about my Mac when they saw it : "You should have showed it to me before, I would have got this instead of my PC". Well, I didn't want to sound like a salesman, so I figured if they want a new PC, let's help them get what they want!

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

Ray...

I sure wished I could see Apple's payroll to see if your names on it. They should copy this thread and put it in their commercials. I don't suppose any of my existing PCI cards will fit in a Mac Motherboard. I read Tom's thread and I'm quite excited about building my own Mac. Thanks for all the info you gave me as well. Software coming with a machine scares me. If I want it, I'll buy it. I don't want some computer manufacturer telling me what software I should have. As on my earlier thread on another topic, my friend who bought an HP Package got over 1 gig of free HP software. She doesn't use any of it. I'm sure some of what Mac puts on their machines is useful, so don't get mad at me.

Brian :D

[Carbone]

Brian,

Unless it's something new, you can't build your own Mac. You can get a built-to-order one (more memory, better graphic card, bigger hard drive, etc), but you cannot go out and buy hardware to build your Mac. Sorry :(

No, I'm not an Apple employee, I can assure you. I do like the product, that's all :-) Just like when I talk about Adobe's Photoshop, I'm just a very passionate guy, that's all! :)

Some PCI cards you will be able to use, others you won't. You need to check with the manufacturer's website. I had a USB 2.0 PCI card which I was able to swap, but not the audio card, which I didn't need too because my Mac has an excellent audio capability with TOS in and out (digital optical connectors).

The software that comes with a Mac is usually, on average, used at 70% by everyone. Short explanation, unless you're musically inclined and know how to play the piano, you might not use GarageBand, or if you don't have a Camcorder, iMovie might be of limited use to you. That sort of things. It's not the quality of the software, rather the need for it which is sometimes a problem.

And no, I won't be mad if you get a new PC :-D To each its own!!

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

Hey Ray...

I think you misunderstood why I didn't want you getting mad at me. It's because I was commenting on the software that comes with computers. I just thought that I know you Mac owners are sensitive when it comes to making comments about your babies, so I didn't want to hurt your feelings. It's really too bad I can't build my own Mac. I really enjoy building my own computer and hand picking my hardware.

Brian :(

[Wendy]

Brian ...

Whilst they were telling you all about Macs ... they misssed out the best bit ...

... oh they are cute :)

Go check them out for yourself ... bet its love at first sight.


Wendy

[Carbone]

I know you Mac owners are sensitive when it comes to making comments about your babies, so I didn't want to hurt your feelings.

Brian,

That's another myth. We, Mac users, can take comments and criticism very kindly. We, on the other hand, usually don't like hearing lies and false affirmations or unfounded accusations.

If you were to tell me Mac OS X is perfect, I'd probably be the first to tell you that it's not true. There's still room for improvement (I could list you a few things I'd like better with Spotlight, for example).

If you were to tell me Microsoft Office for Mac is full of bugs and it's a piece of crap, I'd be the first to tell you it's one very fine piece of software and, so far, it worked quite ok for me.

I'm not blind, so are most Mac users. But, there are zealots in every camp and I assure you, there are people defending Windows like if it was a piece of precious metal just as there are those who think too highly of Apple.

So, once again, I'm open to critics and I won't be offended if you get a new PC. Instead, I'll be happy because you'll have a new toy to play with :-)

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

I really think that you and I are on the same page Ray. I have not had a virus or worm of any kind or spy-ware on my computer for over two years. That is not a thanks to Microsoft mind you. However, they are continually releasing software updates to defend their operating system. I did receive some bad news over the lunch hour though... Westworld, who was the Mac store in my city, has closed for lack of business. Their just isn't the Mac buyers here. We have a population of 80,000 people, most of which are PC users. That really has me wondering which way to go now. :roll:

Brian

[Carbone]

You'll get the best deal by contacting Apple directly, most of the times. I got 300$ off my Mac when I call them (one instant rebate and one rebate for increased memory).

One thing about the Mac community, you learn to buy online. First because there are fewer Mac retailers with mortar and brick stores, but also because you save a lot (no store, no decoration to pay for). Though, with the increased market share and the waves of new Mac users, that's less and less the case, but still, for many things, if you don't live in a city of millions (or hundred of thousands) of citizens, it might be difficult to find a store which carries Apple hardware & software.

In Montreal (Population : 3 million) we had few Mac stores (2 or 3). But last year, one big retail chain picked the full Apple line (with 3 locations). Then another. Then one more. So now, shopping for Mac products is very easy. Of course, I can find a PCI Turbo Printer Paralle Port Extender Wireless Stereo Card for a PC at any of the 1498 convenience stores.. But it's nice to know we have 5 or 6 stores carrying the Apple brand now, and a few with a very extensive software collection :)

Ray

[Wendy]

Now here is a surprise ...

I didn't buy Maxie online !!

I checked out all the prices and they were all very similar, including the Apple Store ... but a large departmental store in a nearby town stocks Macs and they were offering a 2 year warrenty for the same price.

So I went for that ..


Wendy

[Carbone]

I called Apple for my PowerMac (I got the tip from my brother who told me to call them, that on occasions they had instant rebate, but not always), but got my iSight and other stuff directly on the Apple Store Online.

Ray

[Tom M]

The phone guys get a commission so you can bargain a little.

[Carbone]

Well, I didn't know that... Good to know !

Ray

[Wendy]

Tom ...

I don't think that applies in the UK ... I had no sucess at all :(


Wendy

[e-mailsucks]

Do any of you Mac users also play 3-D games? I'm a real gamer as well as Photoshop Elements user. I probably am 50/50 for each. Is a Mac still a good choice?

Brian

[Wendy]

Brian ...

Only games I ever really play are the Myst series :)

Wendy

[e-mailsucks]

Wendy...

I've played all the Myst games. Aren't they good. I love the graphics in them. I'm now into first-person shooters. The Myst games seem to be on hold now. I'm really starting to tire of the killing games, but that's all that's out there. I really wish that my city had the support for Mac, but I'm just afraid that should any problems arise, I have to ship it away for repairs. I like that if I have a hardware problem, I remove the part and take it back to where I purchased it from for an exchange or refund. Hey, maybe Bill will give Steve some money for some of the cool features of the Mac and put them into Vista. Could happen... Itunes & Quicktime play nicely on my PC. Well I know it's your bedtime now Wendy, so you and Maxie shut your eyes and we'll talk tomorrow.

Brian

[Carbone]

Star Trek Voyager Elite Force (and its sequel)
Halo
Doom
Warcraft (or what ever it's called)

to name a few..

But then, I've always been a console player (Sega Genesis, Sega CD, 32X, Sega Saturn, Sega Dreamcast, Super Nintendo, N64, GameCube)...

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

Ray...

Just to give you an idea what I'm up against, I asked the guy at London Drugs computer department, if I could play games on a Mac. He said, "No, if you're into games, buy a PC". London Drugs sells Mac's and since he doesn't know what he's talking about, I don't think I would buy my Mac from LD. Sounds like you've played some good games. Did you play Doom 3? Graphics were incredible in that one. My last console game I ever played was, are you ready... Intelivision.

Brian

[Carbone]

I don't like computer games that much, I mean I do, but not enough to spend hours before one. I would, however, spend entire days with my GameCube :)

You see what I told you before, you need to talk to someone who knows what he's talking about, when you want information on Mac.

Go and check www.macsoft.com and www.aspyr.com, see for yourself what games are available.

Ray

[e-mailsucks]

I just finished trying both sites. The first one is under construction, and the second one can't be displayed. That's discouraging. I believe you Ray, I just think LD don't know what they're talking about. Maybe I'll try Best Buy tomorrow and see if there's any knowledge there.

Brian

[Carbone]

My mistake :

http://www.macsoftgames.com/

and

http://www.aspyr.com/

(it worked for Aspyr a few moments ago)

Ray

[Carbone]

I forgot.. one game I do play is Age Of Empire. I like it a lot (but I can't find the time to play it enough.. !!)

Ray

[GaryK]

Brian

Last Christmas I got an intelivision.. hand held.. hook up to the tv with about 20-30 games built in for 30 buck from Can Tire. Not the same controller type thing and only one person but it had all the classics :lol:

[Carbone]

And I gave my friend an Atari (same concept)... TOO COOL !!!

:-)

Ray

[virgo1]

Brian,

I have named my PC Quartzite and the laptop Agate. I've had this machine for 6 months and had it custom built. The first video card was defective but it was replaced (warrenty work). This is my first computer and I hope to get a couple years use from it. I plan to upgrade this until it's not practical. The next computer will probably be a Mac.

Eva :wink:

[Wendy]

Hi Brian ...

I used to love Myst and thought the graphics were great then came Riven and Exile which I really liked but after that I didn't like the format changes ... can't stick the new zip mode ... they lost it!! ... and I lost interest.

I probably agree on the games issue. For people who are serious games players ... there just isn't the range of games for Macs that there are for Windows machines. I'm just a "sometimes" games player so it doesn't bother me.

Your query about breakdowns did make me smile as I have had a Mac, at home, for around 15 years and we haven't actually had one breakdown ... in fact my stepdaughter is still using our last but one model and that is now about 8 years old. :)

Wendy

[e-mailsucks]

Morning all. Gary, I remember at one time Intellivision had to be the game machine to have. We had all the games. We used to have baseball tournaments with all our friends over. Wendy, the last Myst I played was Exile as well. That one was great. My friend got the next one that came out and I tried it but didn't like it. Eva, :roll: not you too! Oh you poor people. Don't tell me... you also had a pet rock. Oh thanks Ray, the url's you posted work. Did you see the Zombie game? That looks like a hoot! It's on the Asyr link. Wendy, the only part that has ever failed on my computer was an Ati video card. The fan was rubbing on something that was really annoying, so I returned it for a new one. Now the HP of my friends is another story. Well, some of us have to work for a living, so it's off to work and then to Best Buy and see a Mac in 3-D.

Brian