Camera Setting help please?

[Cmcburnett]

I'm new to digital SLR. I have a Nikon D80 and I mostly use a Nikkor18-200 VR lens. Everytime I take pictures of the muddy Chattahoochee River the water in the photo looks blue. I would like to be able to get a more natural look for the water. Any advice would be greatly appreciated:confused:
Here is one photo I took. The only thing I did to the photo was add a frame. The water should be a merky brownish color.
http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1HqvdJTrxBm1E6ur86kddyuVGpb4dM_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1HqvdJTrxBm1E6ur86kddyuVGpb4dM)

[JulieM]

Charlotte,

I think you are probably using a setting which makes a decision on white balance for you. I think you'd get a more true river color if you used manual or either shutter or aperture priority and then set your white balance yourself.

[Cmcburnett]

Julie, your right. I had the camera setting on Auto. I tried several settings on manual but the pictures don't turn out as clear as on auto. I am going to have to give up and take a photo class. Just finding time to do it is the hard part. Thanks for your suggestions. I'm not giving up, I love taking pictures.

[kimi_boo]

Charlottee... I pretty much keep mine on Aperture Priority mode.

Curious as to what others are using?

[rkmart]

My setting depend on the subject and surroundings. Manual has the most flexibility.

[Not4wood]

Charlotte,

I also have the D80. I found that there are way too many settings to go thru to make a great picture. LOL I went out and purchased a copy of:
"Nikon D80 Digital Field Guide" by David D.Busch and its a great book that will answer anything you got.

To shoot this water scene, I woud also set this to Aperture Priority. But truth be told, its a nice shot. If I were you, I would shoot this in Raw and when converting over to the program you edit in, I would then change my white balance to suit myself and the shot. You could change the WB to anything you want. Or, it could be the automatic Color Matrix Sensor looking around and realizing its a water scene and the water should be blue. You could take it off this automatic sensor by using the Manual Setting. Look at the Auto or Aperture Light setting for your exposure. If its lets say for arguments f:8 at 200 of a second. Change the camera to Manual and set it for f:8 at 200 of a second and take your shot. It should then be the same exposure. Or take three. the first that was just mentioned. Then open up the Aperture going down in numbers. I think off the top of my head the next f: stop is 6.3 then 5.6. This will change your exposures and you should get at least two usuable images from this.

[Edmund]

Charlotte, I'm not sure but it looks like to me that all that blue is coming from reflections of the blue sky. Notice that the goose is almost the correct color and does not have a blue color cast. Also the water splash behind the bird looks accurate color. Was it in fact a nice clear sunny day? I bet a polorizing filter would take care of that reflection.
Eddie

[Codebreaker]

I don't know about the Nikon dSLR but many compact cameras when used on Auto do add some saturation in some scene modes. Landscape modes in some cameras assume green foreground and blue skies and the green/blues tend to get boosted.

A good reason to stay away from Auto settings and even more reason to go for RAW - where you take complete control over the processsing.

Colin

[Chuck S.]

Charlotte, I'm not sure but it looks like to me that all that blue is coming from reflections of the blue sky. Notice that the goose is almost the correct color and does not have a blue color cast. Also the water splash behind the bird looks accurate color. Was it in fact a nice clear sunny day? I bet a polorizing filter would take care of that reflection.
Eddie

I agree with Eddie. I don't see any color cast at all in either the goose or the splashing water in the foreground. The reflection of the sky is the likely 'culprit', although, living as I do near a muddy lake (inexplicably named Clear Lake!), I really like the blue water effect!:)

[Cmcburnett]

Charlotte,

I also have the D80. I found that there are way too many settings to go thru to make a great picture. LOL I went out and purchased a copy of:
"Nikon D80 Digital Field Guide" by David D.Busch and its a great book that will answer anything you got.

To shoot this water scene, I woud also set this to Aperture Priority. But truth be told, its a nice shot. If I were you, I would shoot this in Raw and when converting over to the program you edit in, I would then change my white balance to suit myself and the shot. You could change the WB to anything you want. Or, it could be the automatic Color Matrix Sensor looking around and realizing its a water scene and the water should be blue. You could take it off this automatic sensor by using the Manual Setting. Look at the Auto or Aperture Light setting for your exposure. If its lets say for arguments f:8 at 200 of a second. Change the camera to Manual and set it for f:8 at 200 of a second and take your shot. It should then be the same exposure. Or take three. the first that was just mentioned. Then open up the Aperture going down in numbers. I think off the top of my head the next f: stop is 6.3 then 5.6. This will change your exposures and you should get at least two usuable images from this.

Mark, thank you sooo much for the info. I'm going to order the book today. As far as camera settings I'm going to have to start just trying the different settings instead of taking the easy way out using AUTO. Thanks again for your help, it is very much appreciated.

[Codebreaker]

Just a note that might help. If you are going to venture into Non-Auto modes it might be prudent to take one shot on Auto as well. Just in case the other modes don't quite work out as expected.

Colin

[Cmcburnett]

Charlotte, I'm not sure but it looks like to me that all that blue is coming from reflections of the blue sky. Notice that the goose is almost the correct color and does not have a blue color cast. Also the water splash behind the bird looks accurate color. Was it in fact a nice clear sunny day? I bet a polorizing filter would take care of that reflection.
Eddie

Eddie, I never thought about the blue water being a reflection from the sky. It was a clear day. All my photos of water comes out blue so I think it is probably a mixture of the blue sky and the white balance.

[JulieM]

Charlotte, I'm glad to hear you're going to brave the non-auto modes on your camera. When you start, I'd suggest working with just one at a time, say aperture priority and when you feel comfortable move on to shutter priority then manual. I like Colin's idea of taking an auto mode image along with the others. Then you can always compare the settings the camera chose to what you chose.

[Cmcburnett]

Julie, thanks. I will do that. I need to just take my camera and sit on the bank of the river and takes notes of different shots I take so I will know what I've done. The geese at the river are always into something and wanting a handout so they will be good to experiment on.

[Codebreaker]

Charlotte....

This is where the EXIF data helps because it records against each shot the settings you used. It's viewable in Elements.

Colin

[Whiplash-GT]

Hi Charlotte..
like others have said, it looks like the blue is reflected sky.

seeing how you are new to the camera and looking to attempt the manual settings i thought i'd toss a quick WB tip your way
WB on site is actually a lot easier than it sounds:
turn on camera
press and hold the WB button on the rear of the camera
WB will be high-lighted on the top viewscreen
rotate the rear control wheel until it says PRE
release WB button
now, hold WB button again until PRE begins to flash
release button
aim thru lens at something white, or better yet 18% gray (worn asphalt works pretty accurately) that is in the same light as your subject...fill the viewfinder, not just have a section of it containing the "white"
shoot a pic...pic won't be taken but if all works out okay "Good" will flash on the top screen

there ya be, you just set a manual white balance in under 10 seconds
just don't forget to re-do this when you change lighting conditions :D

[Cmcburnett]

I agree with Eddie. I don't see any color cast at all in either the goose or the splashing water in the foreground. The reflection of the sky is the likely 'culprit', although, living as I do near a muddy lake (inexplicably named Clear Lake!), I really like the blue water effect!:)

Chuck, I wish the river were that blue. The blue water in the picture probably makes a more inviting place to visit than the merky brownish water it actually is. Knowing me if I were to have the actual brown color in the phtoto of the water I would want to add a blue tint to it in Elements to spice it up. :rolleyes:

[Cmcburnett]

Charlotte....

This is where the EXIF data helps because it records against each shot the settings you used. It's viewable in Elements.

Colin
THANK YOU COLIN. I knew I could get the info somewhere but I didn't know where. That will help me tremendously;) I was wanting to ask that question but didn't know how to word my question.

[Codebreaker]

If you have the Organiser just select the image and then Window > Properties or ALT+ENTER. Choose the Metadata option.

Colin

[Cmcburnett]

Hi Charlotte..
like others have said, it looks like the blue is reflected sky.

seeing how you are new to the camera and looking to attempt the manual settings i thought i'd toss a quick WB tip your way
WB on site is actually a lot easier than it sounds:
turn on camera
press and hold the WB button on the rear of the camera
WB will be high-lighted on the top viewscreen
rotate the rear control wheel until it says PRE
release WB button
now, hold WB button again until PRE begins to flash
release button
aim thru lens at something white, or better yet 18% gray (worn asphalt works pretty accurately) that is in the same light as your subject...fill the viewfinder, not just have a section of it containing the "white"
shoot a pic...pic won't be taken but if all works out okay "Good" will flash on the top screen

there ya be, you just set a manual white balance in under 10 seconds
just don't forget to re-do this when you change lighting conditions :D

Thank you. I didn't know how to do that. I have printed your suggestion and will give it a try. The D80 will do a lot that I don't know how to use. I'm thinking of buying a DVD at BestBuy that is written for the D80 with digital instructions, do think that would be helpful?

[Cmcburnett]

If you have the Organiser just select the image and then Window > Properties or ALT+ENTER. Choose the Metadata option.

Colin

Colin, thank you. I do have the organizer and will give that a try also. That will be so much easier than trying to keeps notes.

[Whiplash-GT]

I sent you a link to a D80 specific forum on flickr Charlotte, hope you don't mind :)
imo, books and such are great of you're good at absorbing a lot of different things all at once. But there's no real practical involved in reading or watching a dvd :)
press button a and scroll thru wheel c to achieve this effect under this ideal circumstance
i've found the best way to learn my D80 is to go out and make mistakes with it. Try different things. Does the EV meter in the camera over-expose normally? (important if you're travelling thru the manual modes :) )
Take tons of pictures of tons of different things under tons of different situations (lighting, high-contrast vs. low contrast etc) and that, along with the exif data will show you what worked (or didn't) and allow you to learn both the D80's limitations and where it shines.

not sure if you've messed with the menu much, and i don't swear by what ken rockwell writes, but some of his menu recommendations for the D80 have proven useful

again, good luck and if i can ever help just holler
but i'm still learning too, so..... :D

[Cmcburnett]

Whiplash I appreciate any help you can offer. I feel so lost looking at all the control screens on the camera. I'm going to have to go somewhere by myself where I can think and take pictures and see if I can figure the darn thing out. Springs coming up so I'm sure there will be a perfect day to venture out alone.

[Codebreaker]

Charlotte.....

I would recommend that when you start to experiment you begin by changing only one thing at a time - otherwise you'll just get confused.

So, for example pick Av mode. Then take the same shot with a couple of different aperture settings (watch the shutter speed to avoid camera shake). Stay with this setting for a few days or however long you fill like.

Then try the Tv mode and do the same.

Personally I find these are the only two modes I use with Av probably accounting for 80% or more. Just occassionally I'll dip into P mode

Colin

[Cmcburnett]

Colin, it don't take much to confuse me. I really like the D80 but I know there are a lot of settings on the camera I will never use. I'm going to try something new this weekend. Maybe I will try to figure out how to capture the true color of water. That one will probably take me a few months to figure out.

Thanks for all your advice, it is greatly appreciated;)

[TonyW]

I'd have to second the fact that it's the reflection from the sky. Here's a similar shot I took with my D80. Basically just cropped and the water is normally pretty muddy (you can see some the right color) but most is a reflection from the sky. I took this using shutter priority with my usual custom settings so I doubt yours was anything to do with Auto.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1Wdk44a4zau8i42HbBKc962VT5NgQ_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1Wdk44a4zau8i42HbBKc962VT5NgQ)

Tony

[lexcell]

Eddie nailed it on the head with his comment on the blue water being a reflection of the blue sky.

If you would rather accuracy than blue, you can use a polarizer. It removes the reflection. It threads on to your lens and then turns to increase or decrease the amount of polarization.

If you want a warmer look to the image...less blue...you can also go to either cloudy or shade white balance. That will remove some of the blue cast.

As everyone has so helpfully thrown in suggestions, there are many ways to achieve the end result you are looking for. I personally almost always shoot in aperture priority and if I want the image darker or lighter than the meter reading, I use exposure compensation to adjust.

Overall, your exposure and metering pattern will not really change the color of the image...that's done by using filters or adjusting your white balance.

[Cmcburnett]

If you would rather accuracy than blue, you can use a polarizer. It removes the reflection. It threads on to your lens and then turns to increase or decrease the amount of polarization.

I've been thinking about buying a polarizer. My son told me I needed one because I take so many photos outside at sunrise and sunset. I will order one this weekend. Thanks for your help.

[Cmcburnett]

I'd have to second the fact that it's the reflection from the sky. Here's a similar shot I took with my D80. Basically just cropped and the water is normally pretty muddy (you can see some the right color) but most is a reflection from the sky. I took this using shutter priority with my usual custom settings so I doubt yours was anything to do with Auto.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1Wdk44a4zau8i42HbBKc962VT5NgQ_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1Wdk44a4zau8i42HbBKc962VT5NgQ)

Tony

Tony, I have a photo siimilar to the one you posted. I love these little guys. They are so much fun to watch, very playful. Thanks for your comments.

[Codebreaker]

Charlotte....

Make sure you get a Circular Polarizer. Non-circular can mess up the focus and exposure on Digital Cameras.

Colin

[lexcell]

Thanks for adding that Colin. All automatic cameras (film & digital) need a circular polarizer for the reasons Colin mentioned.

[Not4wood]

OK, I remember my old Poly Filter from film days and it was circular. What is a Non-Circular Polarizer? Can my old film filter be used in the Digital Lenses if it fits the lens or is there something different about it as well?

[Codebreaker]

There are two ways in which light can be polarised - Linear and Circular.

Autofocus - on dSLRs at least - works by having the mirror allow some of the light to pass onto the autofocus sensor. If you use a Linear Polariser it's possible that the light wont all pass through the mirror and thereby cause a focus failure. Circular polarisers work in a different mode and prevent this problem.

It's not restricted to Digital but to Autofocus cameras in general - film or digital.

Colin

[Not4wood]

Learn something new everyday. I've never heard of this one before, granted even my old Olympus 35mm Range finder film camera has autofocus and I never thought of putting a Polarizer on it.

Thanks Colin.

[lexcell]

Great explanation Colin.
A linear polarizer bends the light in a linear pattern which blocks the light where it should not. A circular polarizer bends the light in a circular pattern allowing the light to pass through and not hinder the focusing or the metering.

They function exactly the same as far as we are concerned...it's a two ring filter that you rotate the outer ring to adjust the amount of polarization.