Learning how to use studio lights [Archive]

RobertSchuldenfrei

January 28th, 2008, 07:43 AM

Hi Everyone,

For my birthday my good wife Pat bought me an inexpensive set of studio lights from B&H. I am sure many of you have seen the ad that includes three tungsten lights and two umbrellas. Got them assembled, in spite of the fact that no instructions are provided, and they work well. My problem is I don't know how to set them up so as to do a classic portrait. Here is a picture of Pat. Notice the deep shadows in her eyes. In the bottom image you can see how I have set up the lights. How do I get rid of the eye shadows?

1845

1844

Thanks for the help,

Bob

robpendragon

January 28th, 2008, 10:24 AM

One way is to use a reflector, have her hold it on her lap. You can get a mid sized 5 in 1 reflectors pretty cheap.

Oh I almost forgot, Scott Kelby's new photography book has a great section on studio lighting.http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Photography-Book-2/dp/0321524764/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201534665&sr=8-1

RobertSchuldenfrei

January 28th, 2008, 10:31 AM

MayBayB

January 28th, 2008, 11:41 PM

It looks like you have your lights & umbrellas directed toward the ceiling & they should be more toward the subject. You could also try having her sit on a lower stool...have the light coming from a slight downward direction. Try repositioning your lights & keep taking test shots till you get the lighting that works best for your studio. Or try fill lighting.

Don't forget to readjust the white balance on your camera. Anytime you change your lighting, you need to readjust the white balance. If not you will get an image that is too dark, too light or not enough midtones.

BOBGRUETTER

January 29th, 2008, 06:04 AM

Teacher617

January 29th, 2008, 06:40 AM

I highly recommend the DVD DV Enlightenment (http://www.dvcreators.net/hopscotch?hopscotch_cat=lighting&article_cat_no=25&net_no=5&gear_cat=57&forum_cat=4) for getting a good sense of how to set up lighting for video. I have it and it is excellent and clear.

As for reflectors, go down to an auto store such as Checker Auto and the like, and find the section where they sell windshield covers (to keep out the sun when the car is parked). I bought reflectors there - they are circular and have 1 side silver, 1 side gold - you get some nice effects depending on which side you use. Even if you only find single-color ones, you have found a very inexpensive reflector.

I would also recommend that your wife not wear the white shirt in front of a white background.

RobertSchuldenfrei

January 29th, 2008, 07:46 AM

Bob, Until you can get to a store , four sheets of printer paper on a piece of cardboard will work as a reflector. I think it should help throw a little light in Pat's eyes.

Bob ( my wife's name is also Pat)
Hi Bob,

I will not have a chance to work on this until the weekend. I have two ideas for a make-shift reflector. I have a large sheet of foam-core that I have used as a reflector in the past. I can also use foil over cardboard. Will try that out first.

The lights were up higher at first, but that just made the eye shadows worse. But with the reflector, a high light angle might be best. Pat's clothes and lack of makeup are just for my test shots. When I learn how this is done, I will go for the "glam shot." Like everything else in life worth doing, I want to take the time to learn how it is done.

I just remember that I have a very old Kodak publication called Professional Portrait Techniques. If I had not penned this response I would never have remembered that I had this booklet. It was written in 1973 and cost $2.50! It has all kinds of lighting ideas. I think I am well on my way.

Thank you all,

Bob

JulieM

January 29th, 2008, 08:00 AM

Bob, I hope you will continue to post the results of your tests. This will be very informative for anyone wanting to get started with studio lighting.

BOBGRUETTER

January 29th, 2008, 08:22 AM

Bob, I think the use of foil may be too harsh. The form core will serve the purpose and provide a softer light. Also may introduce a catch light in the eyes. If your residence has an eastern exposure, try morning shots using the studio lights as fill and kickers. White balance may be a problem though. Play with it, I think you'll enjoy. Keep us posted.

Bob

vawitt

January 29th, 2008, 12:41 PM

Hi, Bob. A loooooong time ago, I worked for a couple of years for a school photography studio. We always had our front lights up higher than you show, and the light was tipped at about a 45 degree angle. I'm about 5'6" and if I recall, the lowest part of the light was about level with my chin (for elementary-aged subjects). If we had subjects with glasses, we would raise the light a little bit, or tip the umbrella a little higher, to get rid of glass glare.

We also had a string at the end of the light that measured to the subject's nose (but I don't recall the length of the string...so that info probably isn't too helpful)...if I guess it was probably 5'??

Lights were about 45 degrees from the seating area. Subject pointed knees toward light and we moved face towards camera.

Don't know if any of this is helpful, but it's bringing back some memories!!!

~Val in rainy IL

Not4wood

January 30th, 2008, 12:43 AM

Bob,

In the Photo, you are using the one umbrella on the left. The one on the right is way too far back and also too low. What about that other light? Looks like you have a raw bulb high and to the right. This is the one casting the eye shadow.

Remember, with lights you need to make One Main light this will be your brightest. You can have one umbrella as a fill light. The third light can be a backlight or a rim light, high, slightly in back of your seated subject and feathered so the hair and maybe one shoulder is slightly highlighted.

I would keep the umbrella, high and to the side. But, just out of camera view. This would be your Main light. I would have another light to the oposite side of the camera the Fill Light but slightly higher/or level but not close to the camera.. I would then use the third light as a backlight, on the floor pointed to the background feathered up to seperate your subject. Keeping in mind, that the closer your lights are to the subject the brighter they will be. Back off your fill light and it will just barely fill in the shadows. Your Umbrella can be used to highlight the face and have the catchlight as well. Keep it close to your subject, high, pointed down about on the 45 or just slightly less and to one side. Just remember, the Main Light is never by the camera side thats the fill light. Now, as an added bonus. You could use your strobe on its flash bracket as the fill. Have one of your Studio Lights on the Floor for your background. One as a Rim to highlight and seperate the hair from the rest of the background. The background light doesn't have to be dead center on the wall in back of your subject either.

Look around here for some tutorials on lighting to get an idea. Its really a Strobe site and not a studio site but you can get an idea of what you can do before you go out and buy a book. You can also try the library as well.

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/02/welcome-to-strobist.html

Sorry, someone mentioned White Balance? You have constant lights on for this, what is the Color Temperature ratings for these lights? It should say somewhere and you just set your White Balance for that temp rating and No second guessing. Like in the old days, we used the big chrome domes w/barn doors. Used Tungsten Film to match the Tungsten Bulbs and No guessing involved. The Color Temps for those lights are known and stated you just have to find it in the reading somewhere.

RobertSchuldenfrei

January 30th, 2008, 07:21 AM

Hi Everyone,

You all have been so helpful. I will not be able to do these test shots until Saturday. I promise to post some of them either in-line in a post or on my website with a reference in a post. The Kodak publication mentioned in an earlier post of mine has a lot of insight into setting up the lights. That, together with Mark's help will make the next series of experiments a huge step forward. I was surprised to learn that many of the Kodak lights were set up with bare reflectors and not umbrellas. I will try that setup first with the umbrella used for fill lighting only.

The overhead light was used for hair highlights and background shadow removal. I will make some adjustments here also. Right now I am facing so many things that I want to try that I am going to have to make a shot plan so that poor Pat does not have to sit for hours under the hot lights.

My bulbs are GE Photo ECT 500 watt 3200K. I have my white balance set to "incandescent" which is 3000K. The Nikon D70s has a feature that allows me to adjust the white balance to exactly 3200K, and I might play around with this adjustment once I learn how to get my basic shot corrected.

Once again, thank you all for your help,

Bob

Not4wood

January 31st, 2008, 06:54 AM

Bob,

One question about the lights. Do they have any kind of power setting, like half power or 3/4 power? This could help as well.

Now, to help in seeing the lights. You could turn off all the lights except one at a time to see how the shadows are falling on your subject. Like the hair light. If you would turn off all the others and look how the hair light is falling. You can tweak it this way, one at a time. Then take a test shot and look in camera to get close to see how the shadows and detail fall. Make your adjustments till you get it right.

In these test shots your subjects expression doesn't matter. Your only testing the lights, once you get everything the way you want then try and get a better shot for your subject.

lexcell

January 31st, 2008, 09:29 AM

Absolutely great feedback guys. Thanks for jumping in and helping Bob out.

I second both of Rob's suggestions to get a reflector and place it in her lap or even higher if you are doing a tight shot. It will bounce some light back into her face. Also, Scott's new book is dynamite! There is some really great information in it on lighting.

The key is to move the lights in as close to your subject as possible without them showing in the image and without them getting too hot for your subject. The closer they are, the softer the light. I would also angle the primary light at about a 45 degree angle to your subject on say the left side and raise them up a bit so the light is coming from slightly above. If the lights don't have the ability to decrease the power, move the fill light back a bit so it is not as bright.

One good thing about continuous lighting is that you can see where the shadows are going to fall before even taking a shot. Be sure to turn off most of the other room lights so they do not impact the exposure or white balance.

Your idea of using foam core is an excellent one. For your wife, I think the white is the best option. Silver provides a brighter, harder light and is better for high fashion, etc...and gold will add a very warm light which I prefer when outside. Try them all to see what you like best. You could even put some foil over your foam core to try the "silver reflector" look. Put the shiny side out.

Mark has given some great tips on setting up the lights and the addition of a background/hairlight. He also pointed out the existence of the overhead light which in influencing the rest of the exposure and likely causing the shadows in her eyes.

You can start by setting your white balance to tungsten and then tweaking it from there. If you can't get it dialed in this way, you can get an ExpoDisk (or something similar) and creat a custom white balance.

Finally, once you get the lights set up the way you like, work on posing. Don't have your subject sitting straight on to the camera, instead have her at slight angle with her head turned back towards the camera. It will give a more dynamic pose and not make your subject look so wide.

Most important, have a great time with your new learning experience and please do share some more of your images. It's a great learning tool for everyone. Adding your setup was great to help us help you and for those who want to learn...it shows them what the process is.

RobertSchuldenfrei

January 31st, 2008, 10:56 AM

Hi All,

Thanks for all of the help. Welcome back Laurie. Tomorrow I will develop my plan for Saturday's shoot. I will do the work at night so that the light coming in my window, which is strong even with the blinds closed, will not affect the floods. There will be all kinds of different light placements. The one that I am really banking on from the Kodak book shown below. Note that I am not using the light on the right as the seamless is getting enough illumination.

1860

Also note that this setup does not use umbrellas. I will be playing around using direct light versus reflected light from the umbrellas. Anyway, by Sunday I should have learned quite a bit and I will share it with you all.

On Friday, February 8th we are on our way to Park City, UT for a week of skiing. Thus, whatever I learn this weekend will have to be it for a while.

Cheers,

Bob

lexcell

January 31st, 2008, 11:06 AM

RobertSchuldenfrei

February 3rd, 2008, 10:02 AM

Bob,
You will find that direct light is harder than using umbrellas. Definitely try it so you can see the difference. i think you will prefer umbrellas for the softer light effect.

Have a great time in Park City. I am from SLC originally and love skiing Park City. We don't have anywhere near that good of snow here in Oregon.
Hi Laurie, Mark, and All,

I had a chance last night ( what do old folks and photo geeks do on Saturday night??? ) to experiment with my lights. I have learned a lot. First, Laurie, you were correct in saying that the direct light would be too hard. Mark hit the nail on the head in saying my hair highlight flood was causing my eye shadows. As you can see in my new setup, I am using the smaller flood just to illuminate the seamless. I will have to wait until I can afford a snoot and a small light for hair highlights. With a ski trip, taxes, and a bathroom total rehab that expense will have to "take a number and stand in line."

Here is my setup:

1866

Here is the work in process:

1867

Keep in mind that I have yet to pose Pat, nor have we gone forward with clothes, makeup, et. al. Note the gray card from the Kelby book to get the highlights and shadows correct. The white balance of 3000K is fine, but in the finished work I will learn to adjust my camera for 3200K. I have learned how to set up a primary light and a fill light. Are there any more suggestions before I turn to the finish work? That will not happen until I get back from vacation. I have a shoot with a local artist to work up a portfolio for him. As usual, I am doing this gratis as a retirement project. If is amazing how much in demand you are if you work for free:).

Cheers & Thanks,

Bob

Not4wood

February 4th, 2008, 06:26 AM

RobertSchuldenfrei

February 4th, 2008, 07:05 AM

Bob,

Just remember, when doing this for free. You talk before hand on how many prints your giving them. You also make a point, that after this amount of prints, you start to charge, as well as making sure they do understand that all shots are yours. To do with what you please. I am talking about putting them in a Portfolio as well as for Display to show off your work if need be. Do all of this with a third party around as a witness. A verbal contract is always better with a witness. LOL
Hi Mark,

I am doing this for the fun of it. Vincent Cacace, the "client," will own everything. The portfolio is his, the final DVD will be his, and if I do more work for him that will be his to do with what he wants. He can even reproduce the pictures and sell them and all of the money will be his. My pleasure.

It is not that I don't believe in the free market. In fact I am very much a supporter of same. Because I believe in this I am free to give away my work.

I made a fair amount of money in my career in the software business and now I am doing a number of things in retirement. Most of my time is spent mentoring a young friend in Boston start his software company. I have no financial stake in that venture either. Part of the enjoyment of retirement is doing what I want and I am obligated to no one.

And by the way, this is what you all are doing here. How much would it have cost me to learn about studio lighting if you did not help me out? Anyone know what four years at the Tisch School of Art at NYU goes for these days? I teach an Adult Ed course in PSE for the county. It costs me more in supplies and books than I make. Most of what I know about PSE I have learned here or by reading books recommended by helpful forum members.

Sorry for the rant,

Bob

Edmund

February 5th, 2008, 12:46 AM

Bob, Keep up the good free work, I'm learning a lot.
Eddie:)

Not4wood

February 5th, 2008, 07:06 AM

No, I think you might misunderstand me.

I do things for free as well, and for the same reasons. To just give back, someone took me under there wing and I became an Apprentice and worked for the Studio in those older days. I feel, I should share in that knowledge. It was given to me freely, and I should pass it on so it doesn't get lost in the shelves.

The Shots, as someone who used to be a Pro Wedding Photographer and see what can happen and often it does. I feel as an artist, that those shots are my copyright and I am and will be in control of my work. For all purposes. I do instruct, not like you with a class but I have had my own students in the past. Right now, with all of my new equipment I am up to the point where I feel I am ready to test with a live model. So, I am looking around to do a portrait with someone who needs a portfolio or needs a Portrait for some reason, also an inexperienced model who doesn't have enough money for a Pro to do some shots. I wont charge them, and I wont pay either. I will give a limited number of prints for free for there time. I have also done this in the past and everybody walks away happy.

My last "Wedding" the one that pushed me over the edge where I retired. LOL I just charged the Bride a couple of hundred and gave her all the negatives. I still made a profit, w/less headaches. She was very happy and I still walked away with a smile. This happened a very long time ago, and I still think of those shots being out of my hands. Photographs are a creation of your Art. A painter, takes great pains and creates an original work of art and then sells it. This person can then turn around and sell this work of art with or without the Artists permission. Is this right?? I dont know. As a Carpenter, I create things that people contract me to build in there homes. After payment, I walk away never to look at this creation again. At first I had a very hard time with this but I got used to it. Are we wrong to try and maintain control over something that we created?? I dont know, it might just end up being a bad habit.

RobertSchuldenfrei

February 6th, 2008, 11:22 AM

Hi Mark,

I understand everything that you say and I am not going to disagree. I am not even suggesting that others do what I am doing. It is just that I reached a certain point in my life and I feel comfortable about it.

When I was in business I wrote computer programs for a living. We defended our copyright with vigor. I would never ever "share" music or programs. The copyright holder has this right. He/she can choose to exercise it by either restricting use of his/her art, pass the rights on to someone else (which is what I am doing), or place the work in the public domain. This is what the "rights" are all about.

Thanks for your technical and philosophic input.

Cheers,

Bob

Not4wood

February 6th, 2008, 09:12 PM

Hi Mark,

When I was in business I wrote computer programs for a living. We defended our copyright with vigor. I would never ever "share" music or programs. The copyright holder has this right. He/she can choose to exercise it by either restricting use of his/her art, pass the rights on to someone else (which is what I am doing), or place the work in the public domain. This is what the "rights" are all about.

Thanks for your technical and philosophic input.

Cheers,

Bob

Bob,

I could see your point, and I respect and understand your perspective and willingness to pursue this.

I only have one question for you. After giving your prints and originals away, if later you realize that you really liked that particular shot and wanted it for lets say your portfolio to show for either a possible new client or whatever. You now don't have access to it. What will you or can you do? All I am saying is keep something for yourself for your files so you can use it later. With all due respect, IMHO, and thats Humble not Honest..

Or how bout this one. What about the next generation of your blood line who wishes to look up your makeup. Who you were and what were you all about? Your art and creativity would show them what and where your mind and skill were at. Something to give the next generation I guess. Now, they wont see or find anything because you gave it all away to strangers......

Bob,
Your a creative and skilled artist. Your friendly and helpfull to others without question. I think we all call each other family here, in these chronicals of trials and tribulations of learning the art of photography. I understand your point of view and its similiar to mine, about wanting to give back to share in the knowledge. I just don't want you to have any regrests later about making a decision that you wont be able to correct.

I also feel that these philosophical discussions are also what help make up the creatively openmindedness that gives us the edge in creating these wonderful works of Art for all generations to share in...

OK, hows that one??? LOL

Whiplash-GT

February 6th, 2008, 11:52 PM

Bob, if i might offer a suggestion?
it seems your model is getting a lot of light from what is supposed to be the hair/background light on the left side of her face (camera right)..
perhaps moving your model forward a foot and raising that light about a foot/re-aiming it rearward a tad might correct this
also, perhaps creating a temporary screen hung in front of it could limit it's brightness (something white and translucent stretched over a 2x2 or 3x3 foot frame?)

you do seem on the right track tho..
i'm taking a night-course at a local college atm and we started with a 2 light setup and just moved to a 4 light last week

also, not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but there is normally a 2 stop difference between the main light and fill light in most portrature

lexcell

February 8th, 2008, 03:43 PM

I mentioned in another post about Joe McNally's course at Kelby Training and thought I'd throw it in here too. www.kelbytraining.com

No, I don't get a commission for plugging his video... :) I really think it's that good! I work with Joe 6-8 times a year and watch his lighting demos and I still learn something new from him each time.

RobertSchuldenfrei

February 24th, 2008, 12:22 PM

Hi Everyone,

I am back from my ski trip to Park City, UT. The skiing was great, 106" of base, and we skied the heck out of the mountains. I turned 65 years old on the slopes and felt great.

I tried to take everyone's advice and it really helped. Here is my first shot of Pat all glammed up.

1933

This will be my baseline image as I start into retouching using PSE. The studio lights are to be put away for now, except for a shoot of my artist friend, Vincent Cacace's portfolio. The focus now turns to PSE. I have had some experience in retouching, but here too, I want to continue my photography education. You guys are the best.

I wonder if I should shift sub-forums for retouching. This is a more general PSE topic than Take Better Pictures, Technique. What say you all?

Cheers,

Bob

Not4wood

February 25th, 2008, 06:48 AM

Bob, Happy belated Birthday to you. Glad you enjoyed your time on the slopes.

Interesting question, I feel that the Artists that make there creations, mergers, calendars and other things aren't really true Photography art making use of the camera. I would consider it more Computer Digital Art and then when it encompasses any Photography in the mix I think that this is so new it needs to be classified as its own type of Art and not just like a "Scrap Book" but a whole other new breed. Some of the things I've seen here truthfully are as good and I would say even better then some of the shows I've seen at Museums. Especially when my wife and I were at the Ghetty Museum this past summer. Some of that stuff couldn't hold a candle to the Projects I've seen in here.

So, I wont comment on that aspect but what your saying is true Darkroom Management and work which I am now up to as well after my large Photoshoot with the Theater group. Its Photographic Color Management/Digital Darkroom Work and I also think it is appropriate for the Technuques Catagory.

Anybody else? I have started a thread for the Theater Group Rehearsal so I can post my shots as they come up. I will post one shot here:

This is the actor playing the Devil in "Damn Yankees" and he's enjoying himself way too much. He also mentioned that he purchased this wild suit on E-Bay.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/TIA2077/Portraits/DSC_0714.jpg

Mack

February 27th, 2008, 03:57 PM

deedeeO

February 27th, 2008, 11:57 PM

Bob,
tons of info here. You have to start somewhere. I've started up my business last year and still throw in Free stuff. Keep building your portfolio, your clientile and keep practicing!! BTW, I just signed up with Photovision (http://www.photovisionvideo.com/)
I don't have time for school, or reading...so besides lots of trial and error, this looked good. Best of Luck.
Denise

RobertSchuldenfrei

February 28th, 2008, 07:17 AM

Hi Rob,

Just to add to the thread and hope this helps some. By the way I am liking your gallery lots. BASIC STUDIO LIGHTING. (http://tips.romanzolin.com/articles/article014.php)

Good luck and have fun,
Don
Hi Don,

Thank you for the tip. I have learned quite a bit since I have started. When I look at the first shots and compare them to the current round it is like night and day. This is almost all due to the good folks in this forum.

Cheers,

Bob