New External Hard Drive

[Not4wood]

Just purchased a Western Digital USB External 320 Gig Hard Drive from Staples. It was listed at $106 and when I went and paid for it the price was reduced to $99.98 and while I was there HP had a Photosmart D7360 also at a reduced price. In the store it was on Special Sale $70 something and after I had paid the receipt was for $55.50 and this printer is for 6 ink cartridges. Not a bad interim photo printer for a small apartment. :D Keeping that as my Photoprinter and the HP 5740 for text/documents I am all set. I am running both printers and the external drive off of a Multi USB 2.0 Hub without a problem.

I will use this external drive for my photos and hopefully clean up my main drive. Its getting a little bit too overloaded. :twisted:

Now, this is my first External Hard Drive. I was thinking of having several directories and sorting the shots under each catagory like Travel, Events, Portraits, Sceneries and Wildlife. How do you keep your Photos with a logical system for filing and retrieval? Do you keep your photos on your main hardrive and use the external as backup only? Or do you keep your photos on the external only? I have a friend with unlimited funds (I'm being polite LOL) and he has 2 external drives with copies of his photos on both for safety. I think he keeps his photos on his main drive but he has a very large drive and has a network setup with his son who lives across the country so he has an awful lot of room. He keeps this stuff in his basement. Trust me, would you believe his printer is a heat dye transfer that uses water with no ink. The roll paper is light sensitive like the old wet darkroom. I saw it and he made a small print to show me. Very big free standing, and looks like its very expensive to me. Wish I had that kind of money.

[NickLewis]

Mark,

I keep my photos on an internal drive, and use the external for backup.

If you're running PSE on a PC then I would strongly recommend looking at the Organizer. This allows you to get away completely from relying on a folder structure, and is much more powerful than folders in terms of locating your pictures.

I store my camera files in a set of folders based only on the shoot - the event or trip they were taken at. Work in progress and finished work is in a set of folders based on the project.

All these files are catalogued in Organiser, tagged with whatever is appropriate to their content. As needed, they are grouped into Collections/Albums for whatever project is in progress.

This lets me find photos based on what they are, without needing any idea where they are on my drive. If I realise that I haven't tagged them appropriately it's the work of a moment to just add a new tag or remove an old one.

Worth a look,

Nick

[kimi_boo]

Mark...

My Western Digital just died. It was less than a year old. I had also moved all of my images there to free up space. My suggestion.

For that price get 2. If one fails you still have all of your stuff on the other. It is cheap compared to the price of trying to recover what you lost.

Good luck to you. :)

[troush]

I have a 2nd internal hard drive that I keep my photos (and scrapbooking kits) on. Then I have 2 externals that I back up to, swapping monthly. I keep the one that isn't in use in the basement firesafe. The one that is "in use" is unplugged from the computer and electricity unless I am making a backup.

-Trish

[lsweeney]

I use 3 external drives right now. One for long term back-up of everything. It's big. Another holds online class files, test records, the sort of stuff that I don't want to get to very often, but I want handy when I do want to access it. The third holds photos and other design work plus brush files and fonts. I back this one up to the large external drive. Occasionally. When I get around to it. I plan to set it up to aautomatically back up but that's on my "to do" list!

I don't store many files on my computer. One of my early photoshop instructors had a mantra about computers being for programs and external hard drives being for storage.

Like Kimi, I have had some failure with Western Digitals products in the last year or so. I think my big external drive is getting ready to take a dive now. It has the same click which was a pre-cursor to death for the last one.

My photo storage is the same thing I came up with a zillion years ago when I was totally computer stupid (as opposed to now when I am partially computer stupid!). I have a folder called "Picture Archive." It is broken down to sub folders with names like "Christmas's", "Nature" and "Vacation." Those are further broken into folders with names like "2007", "Barns", "Captiva Island 07." Sometimes there are further folders in those, not usually. The photo files are sorted into the folders. It works for me because I am the only one who uses it. I can usually locate a photo very quickly. Unedited photos go in Picture Archive>New Folder>and then a date until I get around to editing and sorting.

[Not4wood]

Wow, thanks everybody.

Kimi, sorry to hear about your loss of data. Has anybody tried to get into it with any data lose programs??? Sometimes bad sectors are still readable or is it a mechanical failure?

My important photos are always backed up on CD so there always available. But who knows how long those will last?? I was also always taught that puters were for programs and externals were for important data. Any documents as well as all important files are kept out of the puter hardrive for safety. One of my first main big powerful puters had a hard drive failure after about 6 months. When the Techie came to the house to take a look (still under service contract) I informed him of what I had tried to do to get it back to work. He just looked at me and even in the old days, he just shook his head and I will never forget what this supposed specialist said to me and I Quote "I never would have thought of doing half of those things" I was very surprised indeed. Now I do know I've been around puters for a very long time, but and I mean a big but is that a hard drive is still a mechanical device and only reliable for so far. Having 2 or 3 backups is very good and your being very safe. I would still make a CD of your important images, brushes and fonts and anything else you think might be important to you. If you loose it, its gone forever. Why take a chance? Then you first have to do the searches all over again to even try to get somethings back that you really liked. What if there no longer available? Then what, gone forever??

Now for an explaination. My very first puter was an Apple IIC which had one internal 5 1/4 drive which was used for the operating system and I had purchased an external 5 1/4 drive for data so I didn't have to swap disks to write anything. No hard drive and Ram was a Joke at 16K and I thought that was a lot at that time... I am also talking early to mid eighties. The very first puter I had played with was my fathers Radio Shack CoCo or Color Computer II (late 70's somewhere) which used a casette tape as a drive. Very weird even then.

The thought of using the Elements Organizer bothers me. Since I have been involved with puters which I'm talking more then twenty years at this point (WOW LOL) I have used many many programs and I'm sure I will still use many more Photo Manipulative programs in the future. I would still like to make a good file higharchy to get used to keeping everything in a logical order. What happens if another program comes out in the near future that is better then either PE5 or the CS versions like Gimp is supposed to be? Then I will have to first make a good logical order of my photos anyway??? I would like to start with a logical order from the early stages (develop good habits early) way before I get so overwhelmed with a good amount of photos that I would never keep myself ahead in any kind of file system. Programs or versions of programs come and go but my Photos will hopefully be there to be available to be played with in the programs for the future.

Now, since what I have in mind sounds good like Isweeny's does, my next comment is do you keep the edited photos in the same folder as the originals? I remember from my early days in Photography that any shots that had to be worked were moved to an In Work File and the final version prints were moved back and kept in another folder but within the main clients folders still in the same name and still grouped together but kept seperate within that client to be found when needed. Does this sound like a logical way?

[NickLewis]

Hi Mark,

I'll chip in again with a couple more points:

First, using Organiser doesn't preclude you using folders as well. It just doesn't care. If you'd feel happier with a folder structure as well, that's perfectly OK and quite simple to manage from within Organiser. The only proviso is that you must do any folder or file moving or renaming from Organiser, or at the very least reconnect the Organiser database once you've done it. Managing your files some other way, and ignoring the Organiser dimension, will steadily store up entirely unnecessary problems.

But tying your hands to a folder structure, and not even trying to explore the considerable power of a package you already possess, on the grounds that you might want to use a different package in the future, seems a great shame. Your choice, obviously.

The only other point I'd make is that there's simply no right answer to this question. You'll likely garner almost as many different opinions as people who answer it. The most important thing is to think out for yourself what sort of photographs you take, how you take them, how you want to use them, and what you're comfortable with. Even on "do I keep originals separate from work in progress", I can see perfectly sound arguments either way! And I've tried both and am now delighted to be doing it in Organiser! ;)

Have fun!
Nick

P.S. - The original CoCo was launched in July 1980. I once had a Dragon 32, which was a machine produced locally here in South Wales, and which was based on the same Motorola chipset. I'd been involved in the independent review of the original business case for its production, so had a bit of a soft spot for it.... It's still in the loft, I think! Much to my other half's despair!:( The Apple IIc came along sometime in 1984, I believe.

[Not4wood]

Thanks Nick. They do have a soft spot dont they?

As far as Organizor, I wonder what kinds of problems can occur?
What I'm actually thinking of doing is creating my file organizations then I can go into Organizor and set it up. This way I'm not really tied into something that is local only to Organizor and I still will have the system I want.

I've found that when you rely on one thing too much, example like the IIc then Apple went out of its way to turn its back on all IIc and IIe owners without support and programs and we were left stranded. All of the equipment was then immediately outdated and all the monies people had spent were wasted. Thats when Apple came out with the new generation of computers, I think it was the Apple IIGS and Mac and then prgressed into the Mac as we know it today. Learning programs is one thing, we've all been doing it for years but to limit oneself to only one program and sticking to it is kind of very strange to me.

For Example, in the last two weeks I have gone from one Canon Photo printer which was a very good printer btw, and have ended up with two HP printers. One Photosmart and One Stylus. With the Stylus being used for text based documents only, to be able to save on inks.

[lsweeney]

Original files are in a subfolder below the edited versions.

Sometimes. I am really bad about not keeping original files. Too much clutter to appeal to me. I'm trying to do better after get caught short a few times when the original was requested.

Recently I've been using Smart Objects in Photoshop as a means of maintaining those original files/edited files all together. It's a nifty little feature.

"Non-destructive Editing" should be tattooed on the back of my hands so I don't do dumb things!

[NickLewis]

As far as Organizor, I wonder what kinds of problems can occur?
What I'm actually thinking of doing is creating my file organizations then I can go into Organizor and set it up. This way I'm not really tied into something that is local only to Organizor and I still will have the system I want.I think the main problem people encounter with Organiser is the one I referred to -moving and reorganising files outside Organiser once items have been catalogued. That trips a lot of people up.

Clearly you need to make sure you back up the catalog, because not all its content can be recovered from the photo files themselves - particularly if you shoot RAW.

I don't know which version of PSE you have, but I should warn you that in PSE6, Adobe changed the database engine that underlies Organiser. In doing so, they've introduced a number of bugs. Johnrellis, who is a member here, has done a lot of work identifying them, and has posted a list (http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.3c05836a/0) of those he's found on the Adobe forums. Most of them are minor irritants and don't affect the basic operation. But you do need to be aware of the bug in the File>Move command, which causes files to be lost if they are moved into a destination folder which already contains a file of the same name. Clearly that can be very serious. On the other hand, if your file naming convention is such that all filenames are unique, it may not matter one little bit. Someone else has reported a similar problem with duplicated folder names.

Like any piece of software, you should give it a trial before investing a lot effort in it.

Nick

[Not4wood]

Thanks Nick. I am running PE5. So, I've only just started to enter shots in my organizer. Now your saying I can move them inside organizer right? Now if I move them outside organizer I will essentially break the link. I can see and understand that. Now, if I do break the link and get an error message what do I have do to get organizer to be fixed?

I am asking this so I can be forwarned.

I am home today due to heavy Oral Surgery and will check in about lunch time and see if I can get myself some soup. I am going back to sleep.

Thnx

[lexcell]

I have two drives (actually six but, I shoot more than most), one is the main or master drive and the other is a backup drive. Each drive is has a raid with four seperate drives making up the total. If any one drive fails, I have all the information within the other three drives. This make a 1 terabite drive really a 750gig drive but I have the peace of mind knowing that my images are safe. I have had tow drives fail on me and have not lost any imagges.

I use Western Digital drives for travel and they have worked well for me. The LaCie are also good drives. I even carry two drives with me when I travel, for backup. If I lost all my images it would be catastrophic for me.

You need to decide just how much backup you need based on your own needs and just how devasted you would be if you lost all your images. I think everyone should have two drives minimum one to work from and one backup. We spend all this time capturing our lives, nature, events, etc, it's really pretty cheap to have backups in the long run.

I don't keep any images on my internal drives.

[NickLewis]

Thanks Nick. I am running PE5. So, I've only just started to enter shots in my organizer. Now your saying I can move them inside organizer right? Now if I move them outside organizer I will essentially break the link. I can see and understand that. Now, if I do break the link and get an error message what do I have do to get organizer to be fixed?

I am asking this so I can be forwarned.Mark, There's a menu item, File>Reconnect. It has two options, Missing File... and All Missing Files. The former just acts on the currently selected item(s), whereas the latter searches the catalog for all files that have become disconnected. When you run either of these, Organiser attempts to find the missing file for you, based on filename, date and size. If it fails to make a positive identification, it will list alternatives, or open a dialogue for you to find the file manually. This process isn't difficult - there's only a problem if you let a backlog build up, and Organiser can't find things automatically for whatever reason. Then it's just tedious. Which is why I suggest that,if you move things outside Organiser, you reconnect them as soon as possible, while what has happened is fresh in your mind.

Nick

[Not4wood]

There's a menu item, File>Reconnect. It has two options, Missing File... and All Missing Files.
Nick

Cool, thnks Nick. I'm also glad I haven't really started in using the the Organiser yet. Just a couple of shots to play with.

Laurie,

You say you bring two external drives with you? How much stuff do you carry?? Two externals, one laptop, camera gear and clothes. OK, what else do you carry???? How many people do you use to carry your bags??? :eek:

All joking aside, you mentioned your portable drives are WD. What brand are your main backups at home?? Are they SATA Drives? I've been seeing this name mentioned and don't have a clue to what these are. Can you fill me in and what do they do thats different?

[lexcell]

Mark,
I don't profess to be an expert on computers or peripherals, in fact, I am still learning and growing everyday. Also, keep in mind I do this as a living and so I need to be prepared for the unexpected...computer failure, harddrive failure, etc. If I am scheduled to give a presentation, I can't show up and say "sorry, my computer crashed, I can't do my presentation. That said, here is what I have and how I use it.

I have a herd of Buffalo Tera Stations. I have 2- 1tb, 2-1.6tb and 2-2tb drives at home. Each drive is 4 separate drives equaling the sum total. They are RAID array 5 so that I get 3/4 of the storage of the drive. If any one of the four drives, fails, the other three still have all of my images on them. (I have a basic understanding but, am not an expert on how this works). Each pair of drives is one master and one backup. So, in reality, I actually have four copies of each of my images.

Now, I have had had tow drives fail...one in each of two of my Buffalos and they are a pain to change out. I have to literally take them completely apart to get to the drives and replace them. Once I put a new drive in, I can set it up to restore all the information on the new drive and keep on with my work.

There are new drives out that allow you to plug and play the four drives as your storage needs increase or if one should fail. this sounds really attractive to me after taking my current drives apart. I didn't sign up to be a technician when I went digital.

There are some who even keep their backup drives off site in case something catastrophic happens in their office (fire, earthquale, robbery, etc). I haven't gone to that length myseolf.

My method is definitely overkill for most people. You need to decied just how important your images are to you and what extremes and expense you are willing to go to in protecting those images. At the very least, I would have a backup of my images. I don't keep them on my computer but on external drives both when traveling and at home. That's the way I work.

I am even considering going to a network storage system.

OK, to answer your question about what I carry (you'll either groan or laugh at this...)
-I carry two computers everywhere that is business related...one for my images, internet, work, etc and one for giving presentations. If my presentation notebook goes belly up, I have a backup. ( I have had to restore my notebook before and was up all night doing it before a big presetation...I was exhausted the next day)
-I carry at least 2 external harddrives
-My camera bag consists of 2 camera bodies, a 16mm fisheye lens, 14-24mm, 24-70mm, 70-200mm, 200-400mm (or 600mm if I am out shooting wildlife), 1.7X teleconverter, spare batteries, flash cards, filters, etc. It weighs anywhere from 35-45 pounds depending on which lens I am carrying and the accessories. ( I used to be much taller before I took up photography :) )
-I carry a tripod and head, chargers, sensor cleaning supplies, etc in my checked bag.
-Whatever room is left over, I fill the bag with clothes appropriate to the climate. ( I am in Yellowstone with temps anywhere from -31 to +26 right now which means alot of bulky, cold weather gear.

I carry all my own equipment...and I feel like a pack mule at times. :)

[NickLewis]

I have a herd of Buffalo Tera Stations. I have 2- 1tb, 2-1.6tb and 2-2tb drives at home. Each drive is 4 separate drives equaling the sum total. They are RAID array 5 so that I get 3/4 of the storage of the drive. If any one of the four drives, fails, the other three still have all of my images on them. (I have a basic understanding but, am not an expert on how this works). Each pair of drives is one master and one backup. So, in reality, I actually have four copies of each of my images.

Now, I have had had tow drives fail...one in each of two of my Buffalos and they are a pain to change out. I have to literally take them completely apart to get to the drives and replace them. Once I put a new drive in, I can set it up to restore all the information on the new drive and keep on with my work.That does sound like overkill for most people, certainly who aren't earning their living at it!!

So, you wouldn't agree with the statement I've seen on Buffalo product descriptions: Quick swap hard drive trays behind the front panel for easy drive access and replacement then??:)

Out of interest, why do you say you have four copies of each image? The way I understood a RAID 5 array to work, each array of four drives actually holds only one copy of the data on it, but that data is distributed in such a way that it can be recovered in full if any one of the four drives fail.

Do you ever hanker for the days where all you had to carry was a few rolls of film, and a tray of slides for your presentations?;)

Nick

[Not4wood]

Wow, Laurie.

You remind me of the old days when we used to do "Weddings". Carrying small ladders and cloths for posing stools. Tripods, carry cases full of chargers, extra flash heads, lens and of course film and extra film backs. Backups for the radio receivers for the flash. We used to use the radio's at "Weddings" even in those days back in the mid to late 70's. When the average Joe would come over when we were setting up our Formals, they would shoot and if we were using those old fashioned flash light sensitive heads we wouldn't have any battery life when we needed it. Also, wouldn't give the amature any better shots using our main lights as well. Hehe

But, I think we did have a lot of fun. The Radio's also kept the drunks away. If someone demanded we shoot something, we would know that it was a waste for us in film and that this drunk wasn't going to actually purchase the shot. They were just showing off, soooooo, we used the test light on the radio to make the flash go off. They wouldn't remember the shot later anyway.... LOL

You right about the Pack Mule. I did feel like that most of the times, but I was also an awful lot younger in those days. I was oooh, a big 20-22 year old LOLOL.

[lexcell]

Nick,
As I said, I don't profess to be an expert when it comes to computers. I think you summed up my RAID setup better than I have ever had it explained. Thanks! It makes more sense that way.

I think the newer Buffalo TeraStations are easier to swap drives but, the models I have are a bear. Remember all those pieces lying around on my desk??? They are still there. I haven't had time or the energy to tackle that issue. I guess I'll have to get busy one of these first days but....I'd love to have hot swapable!

Mark, yeah, it almost sounds easy now to hear you mention all those things we carried in the film days. i have to say, my load has not lightened because of digital, in fact, it's heavier with all the backup and spare items I carry. However, I wouldn't trade it for a minute. I love digital!

Of course, I have to ready for everything when I am out on a workshop...both my issues and to try and solve the participants issues if I can. Otherwise, I wouldn't be quite so loaded down.

5'4" and shrinking.... :)