Christmas Card Issues

[AliciaPelzer]

So, I made our family christmas cards on Photoshop elements 5 with a digital photo that I took of my daughter. Walmart is telling me that they need a copyright release form and or proof that I made those cards.
She was asking for a negative, um I dont have negatives since its all digital. I do not know what to do, any help or suggestions. Also, how can I prove to them that I made the card?
Has any one else ever had this problem.
Thanks
Alicia

[Tom K]

I would go to another store.......... Tom

[AliciaPelzer]

Thanks, That is what I was thinking...
Thank you Tom!

[Chuck S.]

Alicia, you might try calling a real photo lab and see what sort of documentation they would require. I'm guessing that they'd be satisfied to see your original photos (complete with the embedded exif information) and the layered psd or tiff you created when you put together your card. That won't do you any good at WalMart, I fear, because they're clueless about photo editing. They're pushing themselves right out of the market for photo printing....

[JulieM]

On the plus side, your card must look very professional! ;)

[BOBGRUETTER]

A niece of mine had the same problem with a photo I did for them. I gave her a copy of the disc I made as back up and she took it to Walmart and they accepted it as proof. A little stupid, but what can you expect. Try that. It may just solve the problem. If not, have the store call you to verify authenticity (sp).

Bob
BOBGRUETTER

[AliciaPelzer]

Thank you all for all the input. Its just so frustrating, because I have done things there before.. I never even thought of a "real" photo lab. Would probably have better luck there. Again thank you all.. (so basically they will probably accept the picture on disc as proof?)

[BOBGRUETTER]

They did for my niece, but that could be just local. Try it.
Bob

[Chuck S.]

Alicia, that's why I suggested calling a lab and explaining your dilemma. They may be a bit more expensive, but the hassle factor with WalMart may make the lab look very appealing...

[AliciaPelzer]

Seriously. :o I just never thought of going to a lab, just for the conveince factor.
But I will definatley look into this. Again thank you all for all your help. :D

[Wendy]

Alicia ...

Make yourself a Business Card ... and place a copyright symbol and your name on the Christmas card.

When they ask produce the business card and tell then that if they require a release form then you will sign it for them.

I actually have some sympathy for companies with this as nowadays it must be pretty difficult to work out who made things and who owns the copyright.

Another things you can do is carry a "Brag Book" of your other creations ... that will show them that you do your own work :)

Wendy

[AliciaPelzer]

Thank you Wendy, and everyone else. (I never really thought about taking some other stuff with me, or even making a business card, or copyright on the card itself). I know now to do that in the future.

I originally sent the cards to be done in one hour, (which I always do, and always use the same Walmart to develop everything that I have EVER done in the past)... Got email confirmation that it would be ready, so around that time I went to pick them up and there was a note saying that they were closed. So the next day (yesterday) I called to see if they were ready and that is when she (Walmart Employee) said that I would need to bring proof that I made that card. I specifically asked if my Memory Stick/Flash drive would be suffiecent (since that is where I save everything I work on), and she said it would be fine. (so I thought that once I bring that in and prove that I made them, everything would be fine)

So I went in and then the nightmare began.:twisted:

They had no idea how to pull up images from my flash drive, and they refused to give me any of the pictures and or cards. (I also printed pictures of a friend, that she wanted to give her husband for christmas, I took those photos as well). They told me that since there was a background in the image it makes it look like a professional photo, and they cannot give them to me. I told the clerk to call her manager, and they still would not even listen to me, or give me the prints. (I have never had any problems printing any of my work there before, mind you) and I even told her to give me the copyright release form (which I have also filled out before but never needed it) and I would sign it stating that its my work, etc. She said that I dont have copyright, (ergh, by this time I was utterly frustrated). She refused to give me the form to sign, and would not budge on giving me my work.
:eek:
Okay, so I was not going to sit and argue back and forth with her about them, so I told her that if I could not have them then she needed to destroy them all... So she started to put them through their shredder, and she had no idea that I was standing watching her because a display was in the way, and she said "OH WELL, Im not doing this", and then she refused to destroy them. I was so mad by that point that I just left in tears...

So I will be going else where.. FRUSTRATION.. (the thing that really bothers me is that I have always used that same location to print anything that I have ever done, or made/edited, and never never had any problems.) In fact I always got compliments on the things that I had printed.

Isnt there a way for them to see that its NOT a professional picture? I dont know why but I always thought that there was some way that they could tell that it was professional done or not (kinda like a watermark or something that you cant see on the photo) Like when you photocopy a check how there is void through it, but we cant see it on the original?)
I dont know why I thought that.

[Ric Cisson]

Alicia, I understand your frustration, but Wal-Mart is protecting themselves after losing litigation a few years ago over copyright issues...in fact many of the major box store chains have followed the same guidelines. Having retired from the industry and having been responsible for the protection of "professionals' work" in an independent lab with high volumne I both admonish Wal-Mart, for lack of common sense, and laud them for their effort in protecting work and themselves. This is a lawsuit gone crazy world, more so in the digital world than in the film world we once so embraced.

My recommendation would be to contact Curry Camera in Las Vegas, you have them all over Vegas, and talk to them. They are reputable dealers and know the copyright laws well. They are members of the Independent Photo Imagers association under the umbrella of the Photo Marketing Association International. I am quite certain that they will treat you with professional courtesy and take care of you with all the respect that you are entitled to. I have always advised customers to go to the people that know, the experts, and those are the independent labs across the country. I won't fault you for wanting to save, I now do it, but work with a local Costco, who knows my background and experience and asks questions everytime I pick up an order there. But start with Curry Camera, and don't ever be afraid to ask questions up front before placing the order.

What your Wal-Mart clerk did was wrong...and I would have demanded the store manager on the spot to resolve the "destroy" issue! Hope this helps, I only wish that Wal-Marts like your experience would dry up and blow away in the Nevada deserts for customer service (lack of) that you experienced.

[NickLewis]

Seems to me that if Walmart think that the quality of the image, or whether it contains a background, indicates whether it was produced professionally, they might as well put a sign up saying "we only print rubbish". (Mind you, even that's not exactly reliable, I'm sad to say. I was proudly shown a professional portrait a couple of weeks ago that I would have hit the delete key on in a heartbeat. But that's another topic. :))

The trouble is that there is no way whatsoever to prove that you own the copyright in a piece of work. If a company is content to simply call you a liar, you're stuck. At some point, someone just has to believe that you are the copyright owner.

There's no technical means of determining professional origin. You could possibly try and persuade the staff that a picture taken on a point and shoot couldn't be professional, but all you're doing is pandering to their misconceptions. And it wouldn't work if you buy that DSLR you're thinking of..... :)

As everyone else has said, establish a relationship with a decent, reputable lab, and don't darken Walmart's doors again.

Nick

[AliciaPelzer]

Again, I must thank you all for all the responses. I really appreciate all the help that you have provided. It has really helped alot. I hope everyone has a happy holiday and a happy new year. I cannot express how thankful I am for everyone's help.

Its all about learning, and this tiime I learned that I will not submitt my photos to walmart anymore :D I can smile about it now, (but I was :mad: last night)

Thanks again Everyone.

[RobertSchuldenfrei]

RANT WARNING!

One of the blessings and one of the curses of our form of government is we get get what we want. People sue at the drop of a hat. Big organizations like Walmart learn from loosing that they have to be very careful. To a lawyer, Walmart or Sears looks like a gold mine. Your small photo lab is probably not going to get hit because their pockets are too shallow. In free countries, if people want to win the lottery at the courts of law, they are free to do so. I can hardly blame Walmart for their policy, but they should have involved management when it came time to inforce it. The clerk was wrong and this should have been a management issue.

OK, I have gotten that off my chest. Back to the warm fuzzy stuff.

Merry Christmas,

Bob