The Right Camera

[AliciaPelzer]

I have a question.. and need some help!

In your opinion what would be the best camera for a ‘beginner’ (so to speak)? Someone upgrading from just a digital ‘point & shoot’.

What is your opinion on the Canon EOS Digital Rebel? (photo quality/ease of use, etc)

Also, what is a telephoto lens?

Your input would be appreciated.

Thanks
Alicia

[GaryK]

Hi Alicia

If you are going to move to a DSLR camera the Rebel is a good one as well as the Nikon D40 or D40x.
I have the old rebel and am still using it. I have no complaints but I think today the D40 is the best bang for the buck if you are talking inexpensive.

There are a host of things to look for, and price should not be the only consideration. You really have to try them in a camera store to get a feel for what you like. Try to learn the lingo a bit so you know what they are talking about when you have questions.

While I can't say a exect definition of a telephoto lens, I will say, typically the let you take pictures of things farther away.
There are many different sizes so to speak and the larger the mumber the more zoomed in you are. So a 100 mm is not as zoomed as a 200 mm.

There are also zoom lenses that have different ranges built in so you could have a 100-200 mm zoom that would give you the advantages of both a 100 and a 200 plus all the numbers in between..

Of course all this flexibility comes at a price (either dollar or quality or both) but that is for a different discussion.:)

You may want to PM one of the moderators and get this moved to the camera section of the forums. There is some excellent help there and they may not notice it in this area.;)

[AliciaPelzer]

Thank you so much Gary... I really appreciate it.
Thanks Again.
Alicia

[mrod]

All moved. Happened to be in the right place at the right time. ;)

And, if I may...Gary had excellent advice. I recently completed the same decision, and one of the big factors for me (after cost) was how each camera felt in my hands. I went in thinking I would like the Rebel, and left liking the D80. It took the better part of a year, but I eventually ended up with a D80, and couldn't be happier. If I'd "settled" for something that didn't feel as good to me, I would have had a twinge of regret every time I picked up the camera (I probably would have gotten over it eventually, but still...you get the point).

Mike

[GaryK]

You are welcome Alicia.

There are quite a few far more knowledgeable people than myself kicking around here.
All this is just my opinion and based on what I have read or seen.
So hopefully others will jump in to clear up anything I said wrong or at least to offer another point of view.:D

[GaryK]

Whoa

that was weird.. thanks Mike.

I started replying in the begginers part and by the time I was done typing had moved to the camera section.:D

[mrod]

Whoa

that was weird.. thanks Mike.

I started replying in the begginers part and by the time I was done typing had moved to the camera section.:D

I was wondering if that was going to catch anyone...guess it works!

[jo]

I have a digital Rebel XT. I chose it because it was the lightweight among the less expensive dslr's, because it was a Canon, and because a photography club friend let me try his XT to get a feel for whether it was for me or not. DO get your hands on a camera before you spend the money!

Sometimes I wish I could buy an XTI for the bigger text on the display. My XT does me just fine otherwise.

Speaking of weight -- I tried a longer zoom lens and it was way too heavy for me so I bought a Panasonic FX18. I won't be giving up my XT for it, but it's a nice little lightweight for walks in the park.

[NickLewis]

Also, what is a telephoto lens?

Your input would be appreciated.

Thanks
Alicia

Alicia,

Strictly, a telephoto lens is one which has a particular optical construction that lets the lens be made physically shorter than its focal length. But, because almost all long focal length lenses are of telephoto construction, the term tends to be used synonymously for a "long" focal length lens. That is, one whose focal length is greater than the "standard" for the particular film or CCD in use.

The result of having a long focal length is that the angle of view of the lens is smaller than that of a standard lens. That means you can take shots of objects further away (as Gary said) or more tightly cropped/highly magnified views of nearby objects. There are also knock-on effects on depth of field.

But the most common use of a telephoto is undoubtedly to take shots of distant objects or animals etc.

I'd endorse what the others have said about cameras. Either the Rebel or its Nikon equivalents are excellent cameras. But, if you possibly can, try and handle one before buying it. However good a camera's specs are, if it's not comfortable in your hands or at your eye, find one that is. For example, I bought a Canon 20D not the Rebel simply because the Rebel was too small for my hands. Technically, it was fine for what I wanted, and it was cheaper, but I just wasn't happy holding it.

Nick

[Clayton]

I just bought the Nikon D40X last week. I did as others have suggested to go and "feel" the cameras first. Since I am just a hobbyist and am coming from a Nikon Coolpix 5700 this was a good feel. In fact it feels exactly like my wife's Monolta 35 mm camera. I also bought the field guide by David Busch and it is an excellent teacher rather than reading the manual. I am still exploring all the buttons and functions. So far I am well pleased. :p One thing I did learn (don't know if this is peculiar to this camera or all DSLR's), but the 2.5" LCD is only used for settings and picture review.:confused: All shots are focused thru the eyepiece. You can't see what you are focusing on thru the LCD. This is not a problem because I never used the LCD to see what I was shooting, but if you are coming from a point and shoot, many people use this feature.

[Joe M]

I'm also a beginner and faced the same questions.

The suggestions about "handling" your potential camera are right on.

I wanted to move up to a DSLR and had pretty much made up my mind between the Canon 40D and Sony A700. I went to the camera stores and handled both of them. I still couldn't make up my mind.

Last week I ran into a friend who told me about the Pentax K10D. A camera I had never considered. I went to his house and took some pictures with it. He gave me the "sell job" that most people who love their camera do. I went home and read as much as I could about the camera. I ordered one and it got here Monday, I couldn't be happier.

The moral to the story is; don't buy a camera until you feel it in your hands.

[lexcell]

Hi Alicia,
It looks like you have already had some very sound advice from Gary, Mike and the others.

I'll throw my two cents worth in....
I would compare the features of the cameras that you are interested in and see if one has a feature/function that you need/want that the others don't. For example, if you like to shoot action, you want to get a camera that has a fairly fast frames per second firing capability. If you shoot in low light or at high ISOs, you want a camera that has very low noise. And so on.

Think about what you like to shoot and the features you will need to best capture the images you want to capture and then go handle the cameras like the others have suggested. While the features between some cameras are very similar, the feel of each camera is a totally individual thing. If it feels good in your hands you will likely enjoy shooting with it more.

A telephoto lens is basically anything greater than 50mm (in film day terms, so say 35mm in digital with a 1.5/1.6X sensor) 50mm is considered a normal lens because it is basically the same perspective that we see with our own eyes. Anything bigger, becomes telephoto...the bigger the number, the greater the magnification. (Binoculars for example...10X would be equivalent to a 500mm lens) Wide angle lenses are anything smaller than 50mm. The smaller the number the greater the angle of view.

[Tom K]

Hi Alicia.....

All of the advice given by all the others is good... I would like to
offer one word of caution... Please remember that what ever brand
you decide on , you are making a financial commitment to that brand
and as you buy accessories you will find that they are NOT interchangable
between brands.....

Good luck.. Tom

[Chuck S.]

Tom, I agree. The choice of lenses may be your most important short-term consideration; for some, the options to 'move up' to a more sophisticated DSLR may be another factor. For Canon, the current choices start with the 400D then progress to the 40D, 5D, and 1DMarkIII. For Nikon, the progression is D40 to D40X to D80 to D300 to D3 (maybe another step in there somewhere). Not everyone is looking to move up, but if you think you will, make sure the manufacturer you're considering has options for you.

[Tom K]

Chuck,

Well said......... Tom :)

[AliciaPelzer]

Thank you to everyone for all your help... I did use all the advice provided. I went to Best buy and looked at all the cameras, and held them (to get the feel). Since I am a begginer I must say that coming from a point and shoot I was totally TOTALLY intimidated by the camera. I really would like to upgrade to a camera that would take better photos, but I think that I am getting ahead of myself. I dont know, I just dont know if I really have the time to teach myself how to use such a camera (since I am a 'new' mother). LIke I said it totally intimidated me. :(

Maybe I shoudl upgrade slowly.

Does any one have any input on regular point and shoot camera's and if they are any good. (more then just a standard camera)? I am so sorry if it seems like I dont know what I am talkig about.
I was also looking at the Kodak Z812 IS while I was at Best Buy looking at the other Camera's (this is just a point and shoot) but I was wondering if there was any postive input on that camera.

I guess I just dont knwo what to do.

I love taking pictures, I love to scrapbook, and everything about good pictures I love, but like I said since I am a begginer maybe I am trying to move up to fast.

ANY input? Again, I am very thankful for all the help that you all have provided.
Alicia

[Chuck S.]

Alicia, it's a daunting task! My recommendation would be to look at point-and-shoot cameras that have the ability to make adjustments in aperture, shutter speed, and exposure compensation so you can learn about exposure management before taking the plunge for a DSLR. Many P&S cameras have this capability, but many don't - you have to be careful.

Here's a website that I've found useful in my camera purchases over the last 5 years:

Steve's Digicams (http://www.steves-digicams.com/hardware_reviews.html)

It has reviews of virtually all the digicams (both DSLR and P&S) that have been produced since 2000, so it's a real treasure trove of information. Another one is dpreview (www.dpreview.com (http://www.dpreview.com) ) which has similar information and is a good cross-reference.

Keep coming back here to ask questions as you consider your next steps!

[GaryK]

Alicia

One thing to remember, especially for a new mom. The best camera is one that you will use.
No use having a really fancy, expensive camera sitting in the closet. It won't take pictures of the little one from in there.
A lot of people think that a fancy camera will automatically make better pictures. It won't.
It may have less noise and a few more creative opportunities but that doesn't mean it will take the pictures for you.
You will likely find that a lot of the DSLR people on the forums here, have a smaller good quality P&S for lots of reasons.:)

[AliciaPelzer]

I completely understad what you are saying. I use my point and shoot that I have now ALOT. I was just looking for maybe better 'quality' in the photos. I understand what you are saying about a "fancy" camera will not take a great photos for me.

Again, Maybe I should upgrade slowly (obviously) :D

Does any one have any idea as far as the kodak Z812 IS?
Good camera/quality etc.

[Chuck S.]

I completely understad what you are saying. I use my point and shoot that I have now ALOT. I was just looking for maybe better 'quality' in the photos. I understand what you are saying about a "fancy" camera will not take a great photos for me.

Again, Maybe I should upgrade slowly (obviously) :D

Does any one have any idea as far as the kodak Z812 IS?
Good camera/quality etc.

Alicia, I don't know anything about that camera, but here's a review:

Kodak Z812 (http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/default.asp?newsID=3209&review=kodak+easyshare+z812+IS)

Looks very interesting! Have you 'test driven' it yet?

[AliciaPelzer]

Thanks!!!!!!!!:)

I could not find it on the other sites that you sent (but I have also been doing some of my own research, I just didnt know if any one has seen or used it personally).

Sorry its been a long day :o

I played with it a little bit yesterday when I went to Best Buy, to look at the other camera's.:D

[Chuck S.]

Alicia, apparently it's a very new model, so steves and dpreview haven't picked up on it yet. I did a google search on the camera name and 'review' to come up with that reference; there are probably other reviews you can browse in the same way.

[NickLewis]

Alicia,

You said you were intimidated by a DSLR like the Rebel. There's really no need to be. If you set it on its Full Auto mode, it will operate like a point & shoot.

Some people will tell you that you shouldn't use a DSLR that way, and that you need to understand shutter speeds, apertures, ISO, compensation, etc etc., even that you should always use the Manual mode and set everything yourself. I disagree completely. Yes, you get more control if you understand these things, but you can work on that at your leisure.

In general, a DSLR will produce technically better images than a P&S, basically because the camera's sensor is bigger, and lens quality tends to be higher. But you still need to see and shoot those images. That's the main thing.

Personally, I'd say that if you've aspirations to a DSLR, get one and learn to use it gradually. Going up in steps is just going to cost you money. Ignore salesmen blinding you with all of a DSLR's complexities, and lifelong photo purists who want to have complete control over every little thing.

(If you'd prefer a P&S for cost or size reasons, that's a different issue - that's absolutely fine. But don't get hold of the idea that DSLRs are difficult to use because there are loads of buttons and knobs.)

I've owned SLRs for 30 years or so. I still set them in Auto modes when I want to just grab shots at a family event or whatever.

Nick

[AliciaPelzer]

Thank you Nick..
I really appreciate everyone's help and input. It really helps!

[jo]

One of the reasons I bought my Rebel XT is the ability to take 3 shots per second. It's great for shooting small children in perpetual motion.

The newer point and shoot cameras may be just as quick, but I seem to have more shutter lag on the Panasonic than I've become used to with the XT.

By the way, I was very happy with the Olympus point and shoot that I used before buying the XT, and I passed that camera on to my daughter.

[foxxsmith]

Alicia,

I agree with Nick completely. I just in the last several months went from a Panasonic Lumix FZ30 "near DSLR...so they call it" to a Nikon DSLR, with a ton more buttons, settings and menu choices. I was intimidated thinking I had to figure out all that stuff, but the reality is ,while I want to learn to take advantage of the camera's functionality and hopefully take better pictures (not because the camera is better, but because I'm getting better), for the most part I leave it in auto and shoot and get some pretty good results. I don't feel the Nikon with all its bells and whistles (compared to the Panasonic) in "generally good shooting situations" takes better pictures. I think the results are very similar.

Where you will see a biggger difference is in "less than generally good shooting situations", such as low light or in taking action shots, where, in both situations, the Nikon (DLSR) clearly outpaces the Panasonic (point and shoot).

The other thing you need to consider is, will you in time decide an SLR is too cumbersome to lug around? If that's not a conern and since you say you use your point and shoot a lot, theres a good chance that you'll use a DSLR a lot as well and as Nick said, you can learn all the "extra stuff" over time. T

he approach I'm taking, which I think makes it all seem less daunting is the "one step at a time" approach. I'm focusing on getting really comfortable with "aperture priority mode" because I like playing with depth of field. Once I get comfortable and confident with that, I'll move on to something else that I think might be useful for me. Maybe you find yourself taking a lot of pictures at night or indoors in low light. Once you're comfortable shooting on auto, you might want to play around with ISO and/or flash settings etc to see how certain changes affect your end result.

Good Luck

[Chuck S.]

One of the reasons I bought my Rebel XT is the ability to take 3 shots per second. It's great for shooting small children in perpetual motion.

The newer point and shoot cameras may be just as quick, but I seem to have more shutter lag on the Panasonic than I've become used to with the XT.



Jo, I don't believe any point and shoot can claim to have as little shutter lag as a DSLR. The P&S cameras work well for posed shots and sedentary subjects; they can't keep up with children and pets in motion!

[NickLewis]

Patrick - I think that's absolutely the right approach. Learn about a facility as your interest and need takes you, and don't let the machine overwhelm you.

Alicia - my Canon 20D has 24 buttons and knobs to fiddle with, and heaven knows how many menu settings and options. But to take a picture, all I actually need to do is:

Install a memory card
Charge the battery
Switch the camera on
Set the mode dial to the Green Square
Check the focus mode switch on the lens is set to AF (i.e. autofocus)
Compose the shot and press the shutter release.It could hardly be simpler. That would take a perfectly acceptable shot probably more than 9 times out of 10 in normal domestic use. I imagine other manufacturers will be similar.

Yes, there's a whole host of options to play with that'll let you take precisely the shot you envisage, and get the camera set up just the way you want it. But there's really no reason to worry that you'll end up with an expensive pile of metal, glass and plastic that will just sit there and stubbornly refuse to take decent pictures.

The key thing is that you don't have to learn to use everything all at once. But the features will be there when you want them. But you can't get around the fact that you can't slip an SLR in a shirt pocket! That's a personal choice.

It's a damn sight more difficult to learn to use Photoshop than a camera, and you've managed that well enough that Walmart think you're ripping someone else's work off!! :):)

Nick

[lexcell]

Alicia,
There has been some excellent input from the others regarding a D-SLR vs an Advanced point and shoot. If you desire the interchageable lenses and the vast array of accessories that you can add to a D-SLR then it's time to make the jump. As mentioned, it does not have to be complicated and the resolution will be greatly improved giving you more opportunity to work your images in Elements and make larger prints if you desire.

If, all you are looking for is a bit higher resolution and more lens, then I'd say to look at one of the advanced point and shoot cameras. The Panasonic that is being mentioned does a good job.

If you go with an advanced P&S, I would not add any auxillary lenses...they are not very good quality in my experience.

[mlspmk]

Alicia,

I really depends on a lot of things:
- budget
- skill level (only so far as comfort with a more complex machine)
-how often you will be using it (is this going to be an intense hobby or a time-to-time interest)

If you think you will be using it fairly regularly, I would skip the XT or the XTi and go for the Canon 40D (or more ). If you will be learning how to use a DSLR, it may as well be a better one. The 40D is getting great reviews now too.

I started usings DSLRs with an XT about 10 months ago and have just graduated to the 40D. I wish I had saved the $$ and just went with a better camera to start with. The 40D LCD screen is simply monstrous (this is good), it's viewfinder is much roomier (has larger digits inside to indicate exposure & settings), has sensor cleaning, live view mode, faster continuous shooting, better image processing and the list goes on ...

I have had a lot of experience in the past (intermediate amateur), but I still think if you are going to use a DSLR, you can do it on the 40D as well. I moved from film to DSLRs.

I should also say that I have a thing for Canon. Nikon and other make good cameras too. Just get what you really need the first time. Having said that, spend your money also on good glass (lenses:p). The camera bodies will come and go, but the lenses (if bought well, should stay with you for a long time.

[lexcell]

Alicia,
Gary, Nick and everyone else give excellent arguments on both ends of the spectrum. Which boils down to you...you need a camera that you will use to capture the wonderful events and expressions of your children. Any photo is better than none and a good photo is even better.
Nick is correct that an SLR can be as easy to use as a point and shoot and it gives you the ability to add additional lenses, accessories, etc. It will also give you better image quality especially if you make enlargements. However, a D-SLR is much bigger, heavier and more expensive and if you are not going to utilize the features you might as well go with a point and shoot that you can put in your pocket or purse.

You are on the right track by going in and handling different cameras to see which one feels the best and doesn't seem as intimidating. The easier it is to use and the better it feels, the more you will use it.

[Chuck S.]

Just to add some very recent personal experience:

I attended a family Christmas celebration yesterday, and I had both a point-and-shoot (Canon G9) and DSLR (Canon 30D) in use. There was a particularly photogenic four-month-old baby whose facial expressions changed over a broad range at a rapid rate. My attempts to capture those moments with the P&S were, it seemed, always just a little late; shutter lag was the culprit. Switching to the DSLR, the lag was gone and some of those special moments were captured. For posed photos of adults, the P&S held its own, but for candids, the DSLR couldn't be beat.

[NMarti]

I agree about handling the camera. I had a Canon S2IS that I really liked, but the way I held it combined with the position of the menu button I lost a lot of shots because I kept turning the menu on when I grasped the camera tighter to take a picture. I eventually sold it because it was such an aggravation.

I also agree with Chuck about the shutter lag. I used to have a Sony that had such bad shutter lag I could take a picture of my dog and by the time it recorded he was on the other side of the room. I also had a Sony W-9 that was a fantastic camera. I bought extra lenses for it (wide angle and zoom) and it did a great job. I sold it when I bought the SLR and while I don't regret the SLR I do miss the convenience of the smaller camera.

Go handle the cameras and be sure you are comfortable with it - that makes a huge difference if you are not.

[lexcell]

Chuck,
Thanks for sharing your personal experience. I think you summed it up nicely in a very short, concise manner.

[lowbone]

The Canon XTi is a good camera for the beginner or beyond. It has automatic modes as well as the creative modes where you set everything just the way you want it. The PMA show is in March and Canon will probably release a new version of this camera at that time. The release history has been every eighteen months for the XT series and March will be about eighteen months. There is a very good chance that the new camera will have live view ( the ability to see the image and focus it in the lcd screen ) as well as a better processor giving it lower noise in high ISO situations. Beyond that nobody knows. The reason I am writing this is that you can either opt for the newer version or after the new version is released you could buy the current version at a lower price.

[jo]

I got an email this morning from Amazon -- they are selling the XTi for $600 with a lens. I guess it's time for a bigger, better Canon in the Rebel category. I'm being tempted...

[Not4wood]

This is the exact reason I was tempted to get a DSLR.

We (my wife and I) were at one of her friends daughters Sweet 16 parties. No one was taking pictures of the candle lighting Ceremony so I jumped up with my trusty P&S Canon Powershot 450 and started to take the pictures, what a rude awakening. After several shots when I depressed the shutter nothing happened. My power level was good, my flash was charged and then I noticed the camera was downloading the previous several shots to the Memory card. I had to wait for the camera to catch up with me. I did miss some shots, enough to make me crazy.

Originally, I was leaning towards the Rebel XTI but after trying several cameras in my hand I ended up with the Nikon D80. A bit more expensive, but in the long run I haven't looked back. You must try and hand hold the camera to see how it fits in your hands. Try the buttons, dials and switches to make sure everything is within easy reach and only then can you make a decision you can live with.

[garyb]

I purchased a Panasonic FZ50 a while ago and have been very happy with it. One of the key points for me was that my hands shake very badly and this camera has a great image stabilization. also it has it's own digital zoom lens so i didn't have to buy additional lenses. i checked out several web sites and spoke to several sales people (even it stores that didn't carry the product) and they all seemed to agree that it would be a great camera for someone just starting off.