UNDERSTANDING EXPOSURE - Chapter 3

[mom to 4]

Ok, Here is the thread for Capter 3 ..... As per Pat's suggestion (thank you for getting me back on track;):D) we will spend two weeks on this chapter. For convenience sake, I will say we should finish it by Sunday, November 25th (for those in the US that is the Sunday AFTER Thanksgiving). Sound ok????

Here are the links for the previous chapters:

Here is the link for chapter 1

http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com...ad.php?t=29371

Here is the link for Chapter 2 (first half)

http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com...ad.php?t=30025

Here is the link for Chater 2 (second half)

http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30434


Ok, time to move folks.... me included.... can we finish on this site before it closes??????:eek:

[bayhli]

Sounds good Colleen. Perhaps we'll see some "fleeing turkey" motion shots! Forgot all about the American Thanksgiving Holiday, sorry.

I'd like to continue here for as long as we can, at least through the transition period. How about I copy the threads as we go so that we are prepared for anything. How is everyone else feeling?

[mom to 4]

How do you save a thread??? Post by post??

If you can do it, it sounds good to me!!

[bayhli]

How do you save a thread??? Post by post??

With the handy little program I mentioned in my pm. "Snag-It". It will copy pages of info, usually a complete thread at once. I've already saved the valuable advice from Lee, Eddie, Chuck and Nick, well... everybody! I'll continue to keep copies and don't mind sharing with anyone from our group who is interested.

There was mention of a way to bring up a "printable version" on the forum, that I wanted to try. I believe it was in reference to the tutorial thread - anybody know anything about this method of copying? I'll have to look for it again and will post back if it is a viable means.

Edit: here's a current thread re the Subscriber's Tutorials:
http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31046

[Elemobe]

Hi All

As things are changing here quite a bit and our group is somewhat fragmented, can we make a decision as to where to continue to this thread - I really would like to continue.

The way I see we have 3 choices:

1. Stay here

2. Move to the new site that Jane has set up: Photoshop Creative Elements

3. Sign up with NAPP and continue there.

I suggest number 3 because they have a Photography forum and lots of experienced (amateur and professional) photographers. I am sure we will be welcomed there.

I know 3 is a problem if not a member, so may not be an option as you may not wish to pay the subscription, but thought I would mention it.

I am happy with any of the above but think we should make a decision now.

[bayhli]

Good morning Linda,

I had surmised we would just stay put with this; a fragmented group/membership will impact it's survival of course.

I hadn't entertained joining NAPP but I have entertained purchasing Photoshop the last couple of days. :D A photography forum and the professionalism you mention does interest me, so I had best have a second look at NAPP.

Since there has been so much change of late, perhaps it's the time for a big change!

[nkeevers]

I guess you need answers so mine would have to no thank you. I don't plan on buying Photoshop at time soon...still have lots to learn with PE...so I don't see a need to join NAPP.

[bayhli]

I should have been a little clearer in my response.... I want to continue our reading group right here.

If the consensus is to move to the new Elements site, then I'll consider whether or not I'd continue at that point.

My interest in NAPP is purely a general one and not one I would consider for this group.

[Elemobe]

OK, so my understanding is that we are staying here. Which is fine by me. Hope there are enough for us to continue. If I have misunderstood and people would rather continue over on the new site, do say. I really don't mind, just a little confused with the changes here the last few days!!

I am off to shoot flowers so I can put Chapter 2 to bed - I will post my results for critique.

[bayhli]

I agree with Linda that our group members need to come forward with whether they want to continue here or on the new site. Even if there are only a couple of us left here, we can still continue and certainly there will be no hard feelings. :)

I'd just like to get all the changes behind us so we know where we are at, and get back to enjoying this site!

[nkeevers]

I hate to bail but I'm going to the new forum only because I can't see checking threads at both and DDD. It's taking up a lot of my time as it is. I am learning so much from the book that I haven't touched "auto" at all.

But...I have no clue how many are on this thread because the most responses come from you Pat and not many from anyone else. I don't really think I'm learning anything from this thread. Other than posting some pictures, which mostly are Pat's, (a few of mine) I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get from this discussion thread. Can anyone tell me?

[bayhli]

Hi Norma,

Your candour is refreshing. :)

Like any of the other creative threads I suppose it was hoped we would learn by sharing a common interest and objective, along with examples of different photo work and getting answers to any questions from those forum members who are further along in photography.

There were a lot of people viewing but unfortunately not enough participating, so I can understand the rewards not being high enough from that stand-point. You are not alone in feeling that way.

[Elemobe]

Hi Norma

Sorry to see you leave. I, also have learnt a great deal from the book and yes, thanks to Pat, even more on this thread. I also really appreciate the contributions from the experienced photographers here, thank you so much.

I took some more photos last night and planned to post today. They are not great mainly due to not have a tripod, but I really feel that I have DOF nailed (not the little "DOF preview button thingy though!).

I guess this thread running, just kept me on track, albeit in the background. Strangely I had made the decision I was going to give the photography more time and contribute more to this thread, and then last week happened - so just goes to show, appreciate what you have when you have it;)

Another lesson learnt this week - if one participates and contributes, one is likely to get so much more out of it - hope that makes sense and you know what I mean:)

Norma, thanks for your contribution and take care

Very best wishes
Linda

[mom to 4]

I know I will be staying here forum wise, at least for a while. Do we know what the full story is here? Is this site going to stay or shut down in a few months. I am probably also going to sign up on Jane's site.

I am going to transfer what is left of my membership to NAPP. I have heard they have a great mag, and terrific tutorials.

DDD is also on my list of things to do ..............:eek:

and, I do need to at least start jumping in here, but it is after all .... FOOTBALL SEASON!!!!:D

[frank abramonte]

I don't see the rush for going to another site. I checked the others and find this one easier to navigate and read than the others. Whoever designed it did a great job. If and when it ends you can always switch, in the meantime this site needs your support to stay viable. So please reconsider.

[JulieM]

I know I will be staying here forum wise, at least for a while. Do we know what the full story is here? Is this site going to stay or shut down in a few months. I am probably also going to sign up on Jane's site.

I am going to transfer what is left of my membership to NAPP. I have heard they have a great mag, and terrific tutorials.

DDD is also on my list of things to do ..............:eek:

and, I do need to at least start jumping in here, but it is after all .... FOOTBALL SEASON!!!!:D

Colleen, so glad to see you! Elements Village will stay open after the discontinuation of the PET magazine and the PET site (subscriber area, galleries, etc...). And, of course, that change isn't happening for several months anyway...

[bayhli]

Lee O. posted this great little gizmo to practice with exposure settings and I missed it this summer; I like this one as it includes ISO.

http://dryreading.com/camera/index.html

I wonder if Michelle and Norma still managed to get out together with their cameras today - would have enjoyed seeing their images. Not sure if Michelle is still with us or not.

Hi Frank... have you been working with us all along or jumping in now? ;)

Looks like we're moving on.... isn't that great! :)

[mom to 4]

Julie

Good to see you too! The only thing I don't understand, is where is the funding for this site coming from????

Do we know?? Do we care???? I don't know and I don't know if it matters!

[bayhli]

I for one, do not understand this immediate need to know. It will all come to light and resolve itself in time.... :)

Hard to believe this all only happened a couple of days ago isn't it.

Colleen, I'm waiting for your motion shots of football players. What a great position you are in for panning, although I'll bet you have every example in the chapter already. Am I correct in that you do professional sports photography?

[GaryK]

Hi Guys

While I am no where near as experienced or knowledgable as Lee, I'll try to jump in if I can.
I will reread the book and try to follow along with the flow. I just got the book last Christmas and flew through it. Some sunk in and some I have forgotten. So this will be a great refresher.:)

[bayhli]

Gary, that is a wonderful offer. Thank you!

It's great to know we have support out there. It usually makes waaay more sense coming from a lay-person versus the photo-jargon of books and internet articles.

Maybe you should jump in and fully join us since you'll be refreshing anyway.... LOL

p.s. Lee is away until the first week of December.

[nkeevers]

Lee O. posted this great little gizmo to practice with exposure settings and I missed it this summer; I like this one as it includes ISO.

http://dryreading.com/camera/index.html

I wonder if Michelle and Norma still managed to get out together with their cameras today - would have enjoyed seeing their images. Not sure if Michelle is still with us or not.

Hi Frank... have you been working with us all along or jumping in now? ;)

Looks like we're moving on.... isn't that great! :)

I see my response way back got some balls rolling...I'm still here. I'm signed in on the other site; because this site will eventually be closing. I'm still checking at this site once and a while.

Pat, yes Michelle and I both got out yesterday. I did have some problems with shutter speed but haven't checked my photos yet. I'll post some...well, if they came out!:eek: Most waterfall shots anyway so you won't see anything too thrilling.

[frank abramonte]

PatB, I've been on about a year with over 300 posts. Although I have PSE 2 I really only use PS CS2 on a mac.
I monitor the site and help when I think I can.
Hope this site keeps going as I find it easy to navigate. It's well designed and seems to work with very few problems.

[JulieM]

I'm signed in on the other site; because this site will eventually be closing. I'm still checking at this site once and a while.

Norma: My apologies if you already realized it, but this forum is not closing even after the PET website does. :)

[nkeevers]

I hadn't realized it...there are so many posts out there I cannot keep up! So it is not closing down period?

[JulieM]

Yes, talk about information overload! Happily, the Elements Village forum and new galleries will be continuing indefinitely. They are both public and do not require subscriptions. The PET site (member area, tutorials, member galleries) will apparently still be closing sometime in the first quarter of 2008. Hope that answers your questions. And, I do hope you will continue here...

[Elemobe]

Pat, thanks for the link. I remember that link from before, but didn't bookmark it. Have now.

Gary, it would be great if you were here with us. Always good a bit of revision;)

[Elemobe]

Thought I would post my last attempt at panning:
http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1v9UqnRr01Rlu7W9a09UqLB3R6zyJn_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1v9UqnRr01Rlu7W9a09UqLB3R6zyJn)

I have read the Chapter on Shutter Speed, which is easy to understand and I find hard to do. So now just have to go out and improve on the above picture and get the subject moving into the frame, rather than out of it:o

[nkeevers]

Linda, I agree with you. I understand what I'm reading but when I went out the other day to try some shots, things of course went wrong.

[GaryK]

I'll get cracking on my reading.
I've been a bit waylayed today..with all the cool updates on the site and I was getting my bay window replaced.. they guys just left. So I will try to get chapter 3 done soon.;)

[JulieM]

Linda - I think you did a fantastic job on that photo. Did it take a lot of tries or did you nail it easily? Do you mind sharing the exposure data?

[nkeevers]

Here are a few I practice on some waterfalls at Busch the other day with Michelle. (the settings are on the images) below - shutter 1/200 sec f/10 ISO 200 33mm
http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1J842JcLISbp308ff3t3Cn6s7gpVF0_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1J842JcLISbp308ff3t3Cn6s7gpVF0)
below - shutter 1/200 f/14 ISO 200 33mm
http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1a8L3c404EYTSKUIWi8o0CaAEo8XPS_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1a8L3c404EYTSKUIWi8o0CaAEo8XPS)
below - shutter 1/25 f/20 ISO 200 33 mm
http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1oxGB5EQ1S47hmjmXRIyucNPnSH8g_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1oxGB5EQ1S47hmjmXRIyucNPnSH8g)
http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1B2aJ0s3PxViFbgMDVSl7K8Qh87l91_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1B2aJ0s3PxViFbgMDVSl7K8Qh87l91)
above - shutter 0.3 sec f/29 ISO 200 38mm
Definitely can see the differences. I especially like the last...I'm surprised at that shutter speed it wasn't blurry.

[bayhli]

Failed miserably in my first attempts at panning but at least I have a feel for what it's about - let's see if I can improve things during the next two weeks and also find some more interesting subjects.

I only managed to get one vehicle in reasonable focus with lots of tail-ends leaving the picture area. :D They were travelling about 80 - sure gives you a new appreciation for the photographers who photo car races!

SS: 1/30, f/5.0 (in TV mode not manual) ISO 100
http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1gUXDJkIWufZYtRPfkNSG7Ok6k1jHB_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1gUXDJkIWufZYtRPfkNSG7Ok6k1jHB)

[bayhli]

Norma, you did a fantastic job with those! Great examples of the differing shutter speeds.

I really like #4 as well. You did that without a tripd! :eek: Great job!

BTW.... glad you're back.

[nkeevers]

Thanks Pat for welcoming me back! Guess I'll be at both til I conk out!:eek:

I think my IS lens helped a lot otherwise I bet it might be a little blurry! I didn't know what the heck to practice on. Didn't see any running animals so waterfalls was it. But at least I could tell the difference. Now I'll have to study those pictures so it gives me a feel for what to use for ss the next time.

You did great with the car...especially at those speeds. I would have completely missed them I'm sure. I'm not that fast yet.

[bayhli]

You did really well with the panning Linda; I would think it would be even harder with an erratically moving subject.

I'm really glad you posted this. I always connect panning to fast-moving subjects but I really like the look of the soft motion with the dog in sharp focus. Very nice.

Not fair really... you have great photogenic subjects in Molly and Rooby and beautiful countryside for your backgrounds as well.

[nkeevers]

I agree with Pat! Great backgrounds to give the panning a wonderful effect! All I have is houses around me.

[GaryK]

Where are you guys?

I just started rereading the book and am in the middle of apeture. Not caught up yet. Hopefully in the next few days.:)

[bayhli]

Hi Gary,

We're doing the Chapter on Shutter Speed (3) so you are not far behind. This is a short reading chapter compared to Aperture.Speaking for myself I have lots of practice to do so take your time...

[nkeevers]

:eek:Me too Gary! I need lots of practice on this chapter.

[JulieM]

Hi all! I finally made some time for this today. Here are two samples of moving water:

f/10, 1/125 ISO 100
http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1I2KhWTELLY87QG4cAGT4QAbevfm10_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1I2KhWTELLY87QG4cAGT4QAbevfm10)


f/32, 1/15, ISO 100
http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1y9Ms4yXsGcCKtpziRIhpGXDWuEfqe1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1y9Ms4yXsGcCKtpziRIhpGXDWuEfqe1)

Here is a panning shot. Not too sharp but that was pretty fun to try:


f/25, 1/40, ISO 100
http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1zsrHZZkZEhHV4ARQjKoxJVgha103m1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1zsrHZZkZEhHV4ARQjKoxJVgha103m1)

And lastly, this was just an interesting shot. Looking down from a small dam onto some rapidly moving water. Shutter speed way to slow to hand-hold, but no tripod with me. I like the effect!

f/29, 1/5, ISO 100
http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1DOVt2jy9g6hoEsQ1Lh92RyXqmSjz_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1DOVt2jy9g6hoEsQ1Lh92RyXqmSjz)

[nkeevers]

Julie, great shots! I can definitely see the difference. Yes, that is an intersting effect looking down at that water.

[bayhli]

Julie,

You did a fantastic job, no problems there. What's nice is that they are pretty shots, well composed.

Where were you to take the waterfall shots - sure lovely.

[Elemobe]

Julie, your waterfall shots have worked well, and the car. The water is a wonderful blue. Re. panning dog shot, thanks for reminding me, in future I will always post the metadata on any shots I post on this thread. This one o was taken a year ago, not long after I had my Canon 350D, it was actually taken on the "Action" programme, so the camera did all the work for me and chose 1/100, F5, and it was set on ISO 400.

Norma, great waterfalls, my favourite is definitely number 4, I just love the slower shutter speeds on water, that wonderful softness. The composition really works as well.

Pat, car is good, very sharp....and in frame! This is the bit I struggle with.

Yep, I have it all here dogs, mountains (well big hills really), waterfalls, you name it, I have it to photograph - I should be a brilliant photographer by now, as I certainly don't lack subjects and have no excuse on that front:o

Photographing the dogs also brings a new challenge. They are very erratic, one moment they are paying close attention to a particular blade of grass then they are off up a bank, then down, then playing, then (and this is the one to be careful of) running straight at me:eek:

I love it all;) All of the above is probably the reason I want to improve my photography, I want to bottle all of these wonderful times:)

[JulieM]

Thanks, all. I have much work to do to catch up with you guys. I'm proud though that I took all my shots in "M" today. Making some progress! Pat, the waterfall pictures are of a portion of Rideau Falls here in Ottawa. I didn't have much of a vantage point because the better viewing area on the other side was closed off for some sort of construction project.

[bayhli]

I am so excited !! I've been wanting eagles to shoot all summer long and today we came across 3 of them feeding on the carcass of a small deer. Only one would stay to tolerate me with the camera.

Talk about scrambled brains trying to figure settings out and I never did get my act completely together unfortunately; when I got home I discovered the IS switch was OFF on my lens - my God! But at least I have some that, with post-processing, will be ok.

When the bird finally left the ground I was distracted by some "nimrod" who just had to stop to see what I was doing, scaring him away and wrecking my pan effort. So none of him flying. :mad: Not my best session but I'm thrilled for what I do have until the next time!

Very neutral images... any advice for improvement with post-editing would be appreciated.

I was upset to see rope around the deer's legs in the magnified images; either a hunter left the gutted carcass for the birds or the young animal got caught up in a rope or trap. Hope it wasn't the latter.

I decided my best chance of any images was to go for shutter speed mode at 1/250 and let the camera select the aperture. ISO at 320. No time for the monopod so handheld. Exposure was a little under-exposed but fixable.

This was as close as I could get with my 100-400L mm

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1LlumW6VLToqUYhRNuX1FshMt5e_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1LlumW6VLToqUYhRNuX1FshMt5e)


This has been cropped with a quick post-processing in Lightroom
http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1wtraMVDu9LY0umtu1H3y76b4iyTnE1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1wtraMVDu9LY0umtu1H3y76b4iyTnE1)

After being scared off he didn't go far but never did return to the carcass while we waited.
http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1K5bYpsM6EoAwIG4I4fASoFh5OxZ9C_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1K5bYpsM6EoAwIG4I4fASoFh5OxZ9C)

[JulieM]

Oh my goodness, Pat! Those are fabulous pictures! I would just love to be able to capture something like that. Where were these taken?

[bayhli]

Thanks Julie,

These were taken in a small sand-pit that was just off a sub-highway about a mile out of our town.

Wish I had been able to get better exposure... I took about a hundred images of which 25% are keepers. I didn't even get to try manual. I'm pretty grateful for the experience though. Yeah Photography! :D

[nkeevers]

Wow, I agree! Great pictures Pat!

[bayhli]

Happy Thanksgiving to all our U.S. Friends - hope you are enjoying your day with family! :)

Pretty quiet on this thread again so thought I would make some noise.

This has been a good chapter for me; I find shutter speed to be more problematic for me sometimes than aperture or ISO. It's something I have to keep a close eye on and it was great to get in more practice and try a few new things.

Where I went wrong with my eagle pictures (aside from forgetting to turn the lens IS on - duh!) was that I didn't think about having more shutter speed for the length of my lens, 400mm. In my head was needing 1/250 at least for birds flying but I should have had way more to match the length of my lens to ensure sharpness and avoid camera shake. Had my IS been on I would have been ok. Fortunately I have a quite a few that are at least acceptable but not near the quality I should have had from this great lens. Next time!

The next day I set up my camera and lens and scooted back to do it properly; alas the carcass was picked clean and no eagles in sight. So I ended up shooting vehicles with these same settings to try it out plus get more experience with this heavy lens and moving subjects. (Now we can talk ++camera-shake Chuck!)

What I wanted to share was panning with the Al Focus AF (Auto Focus) Mode - what it does is switch the focus to Al Servo AF Mode when your subject starts moving. Rather than have the motion implied in the background as we practiced from the lesson, Al Servo Mode keeps everything in focus. I can see why it would be great for birds or other animals. I'm so happy I tried these things this time round with the book.

Here's a sample - not a great pic I know but there was heavy cloud and I could only get an aperature of 7.1 even with a horribly high ISO so I have no DOF whatsoever for this type of shot (plus lots of noise as well). It was only to practice the heavy lens and the panning so I carried on anyway. I also cropped this as it was horribly crooked. Didn't do too badly and now can't wait for spring and the birds already. If you have this feature, try it, you'll love it!

Edit: Forgot to add that I also used a Continuous Drive Mode along with the other settings.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1LIY1m4UiLFRnn1wSlMEty5gFue4f1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1LIY1m4UiLFRnn1wSlMEty5gFue4f1)

Colleen will be posting the next chapter soon (Light) which I'm really looking forward to. I'll warn you now though, this is where I need the most work - I'll need help with this one! :eek:

.... I'm done now!

[Chuck S.]

Pat, how far were you standing from the truck? That 400 mm lens does have limited depth of field when you're close to your subject, but at, say 100 yards, you would have about 45 feet front to back (using that online DOFMaster).

[Elemobe]

Pat, I missed the earlier posting re. the Eagles. Amazing!!! That must have been such a buzz. The shot of the eagle close up is pretty good, incredible actually.

Re. panning, I took some of the dogs but whilst I got an excellent motion blurry background, so were the dogs!!!

[bayhli]

Hmmm... that's interesting Chuck. I actually wondered myself at not having more DOF around the truck but never thought I should have as much as 45 feet! I focused directly on the truck with the panning of course.

I am terrible with distance but I was not close for sure and probably every bit of that 100 yards away. I was on a small peninsula so there was a bit of lake and a wide bank inbetween. Could it just be my still inexperienced panning ability - it is blurred a bit but I put it down to the aperture or bad panning.

OMIG - camera shake again ??? Seriously, that could be it because I'm not good with that heavy lens yet. Shutter speed was only 250 once again but the lens IS was on this time so it should have been ok. It was also cold and I start to vibrate after awhile. Has to be the operator who was not on. :D

What I especially noticed was the bushes in the foreground that you can see through, so I knew there was a problem. I've had this happen before, just not entirely sure why.

I knew it wouldn't be a good photo when I was taking it because of less than ideal settings but it still would be good to know all the causes for certain.

Thanks for checking that out and posting Chuck - now I'd really like to know what was responsible.