I took a really BAD photo

[Cmcburnett]

I was in the wildlife management area when I snapped this picture. I know the picture is really bad but wanted to ask what settings should I have used on my camera. I have a cheap lens and hopfully I will get a better one soon. For now, I'm using a Nikon D80, lens Nikkor 18-135. The sun was setting and a heard of deer were on the side of the mountain with a big red sunset directly behind them. Gorgeous view from where I was standing. I tried several settings but none came out worth a hoot. I'm sure a professional would have had a lot more equipment than I have, maybe that shot was impossible w/my lens. Any suggestions?

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1naG4O7BNTqgskCb3q2tyPIacSyu_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1naG4O7BNTqgskCb3q2tyPIacSyu)

[LeeOtsubo]

For everyone posting photos for critique, DO NOT USE Save for Web as that strips out Exif data! Use Resize. (I feel much better after shouting that...)

It looks like your flash fired but I can't tell because the Exif is missing. Why do I think this? Because they have that "deer in the headlights" look (no joke). Also, the little leaves in the foreground are lit up. Why would they be lit if the scene was backlit. If your little pop-up flash fired and you were more than 8-12 feet away, that would explain why your deer appear so flat. There just wasn't enough light. So, I assume the deer were too dark and you either pumped up ISO or tried to bring out details in PSE. That made the noise worse. Did you check your histogram when trying to get the correct exposure? What mode were you shooting in? Is this image processed or is it straight out of camera (SOOC)?

Without more details, it's nearly impossible to say what you could have done differently. I can say it might have been an impossible shot where your camera just couldn't cope. On the other hand, you might have just screwed up. Hard to tell without more info.

ps - the quality of your lens probably had nothing to do with the bad exposure.

[Cmcburnett]

Lee,I am guilty of all. I screwed up, the flash did go off, the lighting was terrible. The sun was a bright red and directly behind the deer and it was getting dark. I had my camera on auto set for night shot, then I changed to every auto setting on the camera and none of them worked. Even though the setting was not perfect for taking photos, I'm sure there are photographers that could have pulled it off. Its funny but when I saw the deer standing directly in front of the setting sun I thought of you, honestly. Not long before I went out I had read one of your posts here on the forum. Anyway, I am going to try to take a course on digital photography. I'm just doing it for fun, but would like to take a few good shots now & then.

[Chuck S.]

Charlotte, it's time to consider joining AA.......Auto-Shooters Anonymous. :D

It's a hard habit to break....but that Auto setting just has to go. Auto may work for 'normal' lighting, but it's clueless when it comes to backlight and other challenging situations.

You can DO it!!:)

[LeeOtsubo]

Lee,I am guilty of all. I screwed up, the flash did go off, the lighting was terrible. The sun was a bright red and directly behind the deer and it was getting dark. I had my camera on auto set for night shot, then I changed to every auto setting on the camera and none of them worked. Even though the setting was no perfect for taking photos, I'm sure there are photographers that could have pulled it off. Its funny but when I saw the deer standing directly in front of the setting sun I thought of you, honestly. Not long before I went out I had read one of your posts here on the forum. Anyway, I am going to try to take a course on digital photography. I'm just doing it for fun, but would like to take a few good shots now & then.

I write a short article every Monday for current and past students called Monday Morning Tips. These are 500-700 word articles that cover some aspect of photography. The reason I mention this is because I'm currently writing one about Center of Interest (CoI). IOW, what are you trying to show and what's important in this photo? I think you violated the principle that says, "Identify your CoI by first creating a mental picture in your mind before you release the shutter." Like many people, you saw a beautiful scene, brought the camera up to your eye and released the shutter without considering how the camera will "see" the scene. The camera is a poor substitute for the human eye. It doesn't have the versatility nor the dynamic range. Your brain has to assess the scene and tell the camera what's important. Otherwise, it does what some engineer in Tokyo told it to do.

As Chuck said, you need to get out of Auto Mode (aka Green Box Mode) Under these conditions, you need to use Manual and set your exposure for whatever you decide is the CoI. If the deer are the CoI, you set the meter to spot or partial spot and let the red background "blow out". If the setting sun is the CoI, you meter off the sun and let the deer become shadows in a dark foreground. If you want to balance both, you set the meter to matrix and bracket the shot by 2 stops. That would give you 3 shots to combine in PSE or as an HDR in PS CS.

You have a good eye but your technical understanding needs work. I have lots of students who see great photos but can barely figure out how to work the "O-N-O-F-F" switch. You need both skills to take good photos. HTH.

[troush]

You have a good eye but your technical understanding needs work. I have lots of students who see great photos but can barely figure out how to work the "O-N-O-F-F" switch. You need both skills to take good photos. HTH.

And it takes a while to develop both... Practice, practice, practice...

-Trish

[Edmund]

Now what could we have done to capture that shot. Since Charlotte tried every auto combo she had all the time in the world to get at least one good image. The deer were frozen.
Second guessing every thing and Handheld then set ISO up to say 800+ ...1000, Aperature preferred, largest f stop, spot meter off the sky (not the setting sun) open up at least 1 1/2 stops and see what shutter speed your at to see if hand held shot is feasible. Take a shot , check histogram and go from there. I think you could get a half way decent shot.

Now Charlotte also asked what would a more experienced photographer do in this case. Well a couple of things would be a tripod, a faster lense, and a SB800 flash with diffusion dome. And like Chuck said get rid of "AUTO".

[Cmcburnett]

Edmund, I saw the beautiful setting and like Lee said I saw with my eyes not with the camera. I think Lee is a great teacher and I'm going to search the net to see if I can find some of his online classes and see if I can't improve a bit. When I'm hiking in the mountains I don't carry a tripod because parts of the trail are straight up and straight down and often very rocky. I'm 56 yrs old and usually I just carry water and a camera. Thank you for the camera setting info I will give it a try.

[Cmcburnett]

Charlotte, it's time to consider joining AA.......Auto-Shooters Anonymous. :D

It's a hard habit to break....but that Auto setting just has to go. Auto may work for 'normal' lighting, but it's clueless when it comes to backlight and other challenging situations.

You can DO it!!:)

Yea, Chuck AUTO is a hard habbit to break but I'm going to work on it.:D

[Chuck S.]

Charlotte, I've never had an Auto Mode habit, but I did develop one for P(rogram) Mode. That's been tough to break as well.....but I'm getting there, one day at a time....:D

[Cmcburnett]

I write a short article every Monday for current and past students called Monday Morning Tips. These are 500-700 word articles that cover some aspect of photography. The reason I mention this is because I'm currently writing one about Center of Interest (CoI). IOW, what are you trying to show and what's important in this photo? I think you violated the principle that says, "Identify your CoI by first creating a mental picture in your mind before you release the shutter." Like many people, you saw a beautiful scene, brought the camera up to your eye and released the shutter without considering how the camera will "see" the scene. The camera is a poor substitute for the human eye. It doesn't have the versatility nor the dynamic range. Your brain has to assess the scene and tell the camera what's important. Otherwise, it does what some engineer in Tokyo told it to do.

Lee, I remember seeing a few threads here on the forum from you regarding digital photography. I am going to search the forum to see what I can find. Thanks for your suggestions and advice. It is greatly appreciated.

[LeeOtsubo]

...I think Lee is a great teacher...

I really appreciate that. I enjoy teaching and many students have told me I have a knack for reducing complex technologies down to simple concepts. Also, I never sugar-coat my feedback. If I like a photo, I'll say so. If I think a photo is terrible, I'll tell you why. Some instructors praise everything but that's not me.

I try to avoid "cookie-cutter" recipes because that doesn't teach you WHY you do something. I can give you the recipe for cookies in San Diego but you won't know how to change it if you live at the top of Brasstown Bald.:D

The thing that most of my students appreciate is that I see learning as a lifelong process. Once you've been one of my students, you're welcome to ask questions at any time. If you're really lost, I'll even set up a Webcast so we can meet on-line to discuss your question.

If you're serious about your photography, send me an e-mail and we can discuss how you can "kick it up a notch".

[Cmcburnett]

I never sugar-coat my feedback. If I like a photo, I'll say so. If I think a photo is terrible, I'll tell you why. Some instructors praise everything but that's not me.".

Lee, honesty is what I liked best in your replies here on the forum. Although, I think most of us know when something really looks bad and when it is presentable. I am serious about taking better pictures but I have 2 problems, I work around 50 hrs a week at a law firm and I have a disabled son that I take care of when I leave my full time job w/no help from anyone. I love taking pictures but most of the time I have my son w/me. I'm not complaining, just kind short on free time. I am watching your suggestions and how to's, so maybe, just maybe, I will take a breathtaking photo. Thanks for your help.

[Mack]

Charlotte I love your pictures and think you've got some real gems in your gallery. I especially like the eagle and St Augustine shots. And as far as deer shots go I'll bet I have more oops shots than anyone. Heck I just got back from a walk where I took about 20 deer shots and I am not showing them to anyone! We all learn from our mistakes and this is after all, a hobby for most of us -thank goodness or it wouldn't be so much fun!

Don

[Chuck S.]

We all learn from our mistakes and this is after all, a hobby for most of us -thank goodness or it wouldn't be so much fun!

Don

Don, very well said - we need to be careful not to take this stuff too seriously and drive all the fun out of it!

[LeeOtsubo]

Don, very well said - we need to be careful not to take this stuff too seriously and drive all the fun out of it!

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying it's more fun to flail around and take blurry, under/over exposed, boring photos? If that's the case, perhaps I should stop posting answers so people can have more fun flailing around. Help me understand.

[Edmund]

Lee, keep posting, We all learn from every one of your posts.
Eddie

[Cmcburnett]

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying it's more fun to flail around and take blurry, under/over exposed, boring photos? If that's the case, perhaps I should stop posting answers so people can have more fun flailing around. Help me understand.

NO, No, NO Lee, that is not what Chuck meant. We all look forward to your honesty, help and advice. Please don't leave the forum. I think Chuck was just saying the amateur photographers like me should not get too stressed when the photos come out lousy. That's how I took it anyway. Chuck is always helpful and I think he was aiming his comment to me so I, along w/others, do not get disgusted and stop taking photos.

[Cmcburnett]

Charlotte I love your pictures and think you've got some real gems in your gallery. I especially like the eagle and St Augustine shots. And as far as deer shots go I'll bet I have more oops shots than anyone. Heck I just got back from a walk where I took about 20 deer shots and I am not showing them to anyone! We all learn from our mistakes and this is after all, a hobby for most of us -thank goodness or it wouldn't be so much fun!

Don

Mack, thank you for the compliment. Sorry you didn't get any great deer shots but that makes me feel a bit better. Everytime I visit my sister's I see deer in the wild and I'd love to grab a good photo, especially a big buck. That is why I posted my picture to see if anyone could give me a bit of advice. I will keep trying but deer season just started and the hunters are killing them off quite rapidly at the Management area across the street from my sister's house.

[Cmcburnett]

Lee, keep posting, We all learn from every one of your posts.
Eddie

Eddie, I'm w/you. Lee has some great tips and I like his personality.

[Mack]

Charlotte,

The deer around here are not hunted and are quite used to people. I had to laugh today, there was a chihuahua running around a group of 4 or 5 deer yapping and carrying on. I was a little concerned that one of the bucks was going to hush him up. :eek:

Don

[Chuck S.]

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying it's more fun to flail around and take blurry, under/over exposed, boring photos? If that's the case, perhaps I should stop posting answers so people can have more fun flailing around. Help me understand.

Lee, that's certainly not what I meant! I was simply seconding the motion that we should continue to balance learning with enjoyment and not flog ourselves unmercifully when we fall short of perfection. We all want to take better pictures, but the world won't end if we don't quite make the grade.

Sorry if I came across as anti-education; I wouldn't be here if I didn't like to see myself and others improve.

[Mack]

That reminded me of a video of my dog Mally and a little deer encounter a year and some back.

MALLY THE DEER SLAYER (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9110164924671983654&q=deer+shetland+sheepdog&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)

Don

[JulieM]

Oh, Don, that is so cute! I can't believe how tolerant those deer were...

[Mack]

They are definitely urbanized, except for the big old bucks that is, they seldom cozy up to people. There is one majestic buck that I want a good picture of but he is so darn skittish. Of course that is probably how he got to be so old and grand.

Don

[Cmcburnett]

Don, I love that video, it is priceless;) The poor deer in N. GA don't know the good guys from the bad guys. In the summer the deer come down from the mountain and homes at the bottom of the mountains puts feed out for them. Then in the fall they all flock up to the top of the mountain where hunters lurk in the trees awaiting for them. Kinda sad.