Chap. 2 (1/2 of 2) Aperture (pages 36-51)

[mom to 4]

Here we go gang!!! Chapter 2, Aperture. We are going to work on 1/2 of chapter 2 this week. From page 36 through 51. The other thread will still be available for those of you who (like me:o) may have stuff to still complete. If you need to post back there, you may want to just post a note here saying you posted there....

I should still have 2 good weather days here ..... lots to catch up on!!!

Congratulations to all of you who mastered the first chapter. Helpful???????

Good luck with chapter 2!

EDIT: Oct 25, 2007

Here is the link for chapter 1

http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29371


Here is the link for Chapter 2 (second half)

http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30434

[bayhli]

I experimented with presetting the depth of field, just using the settings in Bryan's examples. (page 39). I can sure see this being useful for landscapes on a tripod.

It states that "the focal length will determine which distance you choose". Edmund or Lee, could you elaborate on how you figure out the distance you need to set in relation to the aperature (DOF) being used?

As an example, wanting everything sharp Bryan used a 2 foot distance setting on his lens, with a f/22 DOF aperture; focal length was 20mm - how did he come up with that distance setting?



The depth of field preview button is a little frustrating but I was finally able to see the difference. Will take some practice to feel comfortable with this feature - not sure that I want to even use it.

Thanks.

[gsansoucie]

Wanting everything sharp, Bryan used a 2 foot distance setting on his lens, with a f/22 DOF aperture - how did he come up with that distance setting?


At f/22, make sure your lens and sensor are clean and free of dust. . .

It is that sharp.

[bayhli]

Hi gsansoucie,

Yup, that's good advice; my landscapes usually need some level of cleaning up dust spots after-the-fact.

[LeeOtsubo]

...It states that "the focal length will determine which distance you choose". Edmund or Lee, could you elaborate on how you figure out the distance you need to set in relation to the aperature (DOF) being used? ...

This is where you need either a DoF calculator or a hyperfocal distance (Hd) chart. Actually, it's good to have both.

For example, if you're using a Canon 17-40/4L at 40mm, f22 and the closest object you want in focus is 5ft away, my DoF/Hd calculator tells me 12.4ft is the closest I can focus to get infinity but my near distance is only 6.18ft. Focusing any closer reduces my far distance from infinity and focusing farther increases my near distance. IOW, I can't get there from here. So, if you want to include an object that's 5ft away, you can back up but what if there's a cliff behind you? You can change focal length to 35mm and now, you can focus from 4.75ft to infinity. But, what if that ruins your composition? You can change aperture to f32 and that allows you to shoot at 40mm focused at 8.95ft and your near distance is 4.4ft.

You can use the DoF control on your 30D but I find those things to be a pain, especially when you're trying to take a shot in early morning or late afternoon light. That's why I always recommend DOFMaster loaded onto a Palm Pilot to quickly calculate these things in the field.

If all this sounds like gibberish, I'll set up a short Webcast for you so I can demonstrate how DOFMaster works on their site.

[bayhli]

Hi Lee, thanks for responding.

Your explanation is nice and clear as always.

I am familiar with the DOF Master, probably from your workshop, but haven't attempted to use it. I have a palm and thought I downloaded it but don't see it on my system. So, this is the type of thing you use it for.

I'll do a refresher at the website and then come back to you. Thanks for offering a short webcast if needed, very generous of you.

[bayhli]

I experimented with presetting DOF again, but again only using Bryan's settings and composing within that. The exposure itself is not good as the lighting was too uneven and the result is a shadowed shoreline and a washed-out sky.

As far as the preset for DOF I didn't do a good job of that either but I'm not surprised as it was so experimental. I should be able to attain better sharpness near-to-far. However, I decided to share it anyway and will keep on practicing. Settings were on Manual, f/22, 1/250, ISO 250, 20mm, lens distance to 2 feet

Up to this point I've only ever used "focusing one-third into the scene" for landscapes.

Lee, I did download the DOFMaster for both the palm and Windows and read through their instructions. A short webcast on it's use would be beneficial as there were a couple of confusing spots - IF and WHENEVER you have a few minutes to spare; there is certainly no hurry.

My companion is "Maggie", a friend's very sweet dog.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1o3FU3W3UIvEXiZeBIOkMEMR74PBTU_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1o3FU3W3UIvEXiZeBIOkMEMR74PBTU)

[bayhli]

Wondering what people's thoughts are about what we've just read; any thoughts, questions, discussion to get us talking ....?

I'm having trouble finding/recognizing a suitable story-telling scene to photograph - one that has a simple beginning, middle and end and that is photo-worthy.

[nkeevers]

I'm having trouble finding the right "story-telling" photo too so don't feel bad! But I have learned a lot in the first chapter. Now I know how to set my aperatures and and able to set the right shutter speeds for a "correct" exposure. I actually went to a car show yesterday and all my pictures came out sharp...and that was using manual. I put one of them as my main image in my gallery.

Of course, I didn't use the new lesson's DOF techniques...I'm still having trouble understanding somewhat. I have a DOF button on my camera but I don't always see the changes. I'm reading it again for the 3rd time.

So...I blurred the background in the gallery picture...I cheated!

[bayhli]

Norma, what a great shade of pink that car is! The image certainly does look nice and sharp - curious to know what settings you used for aperture and shutter speed etc if you have that info available to you.

Glad to hear you learned all that already! I think it's only me who has a problem relating to Bryan's style of writing. :D

I don't see myself using the DOF preview button much, at least at this stage. I had to first see something blurred before I could see it sharp using the preview and now that I have that's good for that!

[Edmund]

I generally use the Nikonians site and a DOF calculator and charts to figure this all out.
Here is the link:http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/guides/dof/index.html
there are two articles to read that should clear up any confusion.
Eddie

[bayhli]

Thanks for the reference Eddie,

The image comparison is enough to keep me working at it - what a difference.

[nkeevers]

Eddie, thanks so much for the reference material..this will certainly help me understand the DOF settings.

Pat, since I knew I was going to be taking a lot of closeups I just used the f/11 setting. Shutter speed was 1/250, ISO 400, that focal length was 35.0mm

[crljean]

Hey Everybody! Just wanted you to know that I am reading, etc. and enjoying your posts. I'm still dealing with a root canal gone bad and haven't had a chance to get out with the camera.

[nkeevers]

I have a question. On page 39 (where the yellow flowers are) Bryan says "he set the aperature to f/22 (I get that) and then align the distance above your distance-setting mark on the lens. I must have missed something in my reading. What does that mean?

[bayhli]

Hi Norma,

1. You have to calculate this distance - I asked about this too earlier in this thread. Look back and you will see my question and responses from Lee and Edmund with further reference links.

Here's the site where you will find the free Palm and Computer Calculators:
www.dofmaster.com (http://www.dofmaster.com)

Edmunds links include a great chart to use instead but I think it's only for Nikon cameras and a couple of others but I could be wrong. Not Canon from what I can understand. Very good reading tho for everyone.

Lee has offered further help for the DOF Master but he is unfortunately living very near the California fires and is of course unavailable until this crisis is over. He has not had to evacuate as yet, as of yesterday, and so far is fine but helping friends who are not so fine. Hope everything continues to go well for him and his family.

2. You may or may not have a distance setting marks on your lens, depending on your camera/lens. Mine is above the focusing ring, closer to the camera body. When you are on auto-focus you will see this move depending on your focus point and you can also rotate the ring to set it yourself, as per the chapter article.

I used Bryan's settings, including his distance setting, to experiment but have left it until Lee is back to give more direction with regard to using the DOF and Distance charts.

Not sure if I helped in any way - Bryan just doesn't include how he arrived at the distance calculation so it is a bit confusing.

[msbrad]

I have a question. On page 39 (where the yellow flowers are) Bryan says "he set the aperature to f/22 (I get that) and then align the distance above your distance-setting mark on the lens. I must have missed something in my reading. What does that mean?

Glad you re asked, as I didn't get it either. That's the page I'm on.
thanks for answering.
m

[nkeevers]

Pat, thanks! I do have the distance setting window on my camera...same place as you! I didn't think of that! And I did print out the chart but figured it was for Nikon users and wouldn't be exactly right for Canon. I did notice Bryan didn't explain it as well as I would have liked. That was the only thing I haven't understood so far...DOF is certainly going to be fun.:eek: What a pain if I have to set a distance every time I want to set up for a shot. Course I have a A-DEP button on my camera if I want to cheat.:D:D

[Edmund]

Pat, The chart that I referenced is for any lens/camers that has a 1.5 multiplication factor ie my 200mm lens (because of my sensor size in my Nikon D-80 ) is in reality a 300mm lens (200 X 1.5 = 300) in 35mm[135] format. This chart would not apply to a full frame sensor. If you were using a old manual focus lense the numbers were etched into the lens barrel and all you had to do was line up the correct reference line and you could see the approximate focus point out to infinity. But with progress they removed these index line/reference points off the lens to confuse us all. If you look at the first image in my pbase gallery (under landscapes) you will see a example of pretty good use of depth of field in process.
Eddie

[Chuck S.]

Canon folks: I believe the multiplication factor for most of us is 1.6, so Eddie's chart will be a little off for us....

[bayhli]

Thanks for watching the threads and stepping in with further advice Eddie and Chuck - I figured that but like having it confirmed by people in the "know".

Eddie, what a beautiful gallery! "Early Light" is the image you referred me to correct - easy to appreciate the DOF you achieved there. All your landscapes have good DOF to my eye though. Boy I have a long way to go... Is presetting the DOF a new way of doing things for you, or did you do it this way with film as well as you described?

Chuck, do you preset your DOF? Just wondering if this is a pretty standard way of doing things for landscapes and a tripod and I've been totally remiss in not studying this more seriously the first time I went through this book.

[Edmund]

Yes "Early Light" is the one I was referring to. If you look closely at the exposure data for each picture you will see that the majority of those images were taken with my Nikon N90S which is a film format. The D-80 is my first exposure to digital format and I find the learning curve pretty steep. I really think I could properly expose a photo easier with film, but digital gives one so much more latitude once one gets over the basic learning curve. I am not used to exposing for the highlights. A absolutely great site to learn Photography, by watching, is the Daily Critique here is the link:http://www.radiantvista.com/critique
he also has some very good tutorials. The tutorials are basically for PS not elements but all the theory and steps etc. can mostly be done in Elements. I've been using DOF practices for a long time but remember that with the old manual lenses it was very easy and all I had to do was match up a few lines on my lense barrel. A few years ago when I first got my PC I read a article on one of the photo sites that stressed that every image we take should be as best as possible ie exposure, DOF, Composition etc. etc. That way we can learn photography the first time the right way and we cut down post processing time by a large amount. I don't remember the sites url but it was very enlightening. I wish I could achieve that level of photography. Oh yes before I forget a "TRIPOD" is a must. perhaps if one needs some info on what type etc we can all help out. Well enough rambling for me.

Eddie

[mom to 4]

Hello, Hello all of you who are so diligent doing their homework!!!!!!

I have just posted the thread for the second have of chapter 2. Sorry I am late. I also made an executive decision that due to the fact that I am so late in posting the thread, that we will take a week and a half to complete Chapter 2. I hope no one minds.

Here is the link to the thread:

http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/forum/showthread.php?p=323598#post323598

[nkeevers]

Hey, don't worry Colleen...I'm still stuck on the DOF thing anyway!:eek::eek:

[Elemobe]

Have just started working through this chapter, and really understanding it very well, that is the sections that are written in english, because there seems to be an awful lot written in russian or arabic, or some other language that I have absolutely no knowledge of;) However, fortunately we have this excellent thread, which I have just read, and now I'm completely confused:eek:

Seriously though, thanks for the great links, I am going to read them all and hopefully get to grips with this section. So glad you broke it into 2 parts Colleen.

I am away on business at present. The great news is that I now have broadband here, so no longer offline when I travel once a month. Unfortunately I didn't bring my camera with me:o So I am reading the book and itching to have a go but will have to wait until I get back next week.

Pat, I like you picture, a very pretty scene. Think we should see more pictures on this thread. Difficult I know, I took loads when I was doing Chapter 1, most of which are boring, boring, boring.

Carol, Hope the tooth is improving, I can sympathise, having problems with one of my teeth at the moment.

Norma, car shots are fabulous - such colour.

Once I get home and apply my reading to practice, I will be back with specific questions.

[JulieM]

Have just started working through this chapter, and really understanding it very well, that is the sections that are written in english, because there seems to be an awful lot written in russian or arabic, or some other language that I have absolutely no knowledge of;) However, fortunately we have this excellent thread, which I have just read, and now I'm completely confused:eek:

I'm with you, Linda! I have become very confused with the author's use of the distance settings on the lens. I am going to have to sit down and read all the contents of this thread because Bryan has me really confused...