Chapter 1 Defining Exposure - BOOK CLUB

[mom to 4]

Here is the thread for Chapter 1 (of Bryan Petersons' Understanding Exposure) comments, postings and questions. If you are understanding the chapter with no problems, keep checking here for people who have questions. Feel free to post your exercise photos, maybe with your camera and settings info. I guess we all need to know what camera someone is using....

EDIT Oct 25, 2007

Here is the link for Chapter 2 (first half)

http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30025

Here is the link for Chapter 2 (second half)

http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30434

[BrendaC]

I have read the first chapter and am hoping to get out a little this evening to experiment. One thing that I'm thinking is...why don't we just keep our cameras in aperture priority all the time? Just figure out what you want in your image, creatively, and pick the appropriate f stop? Why bother going to manual?

[mom to 4]

Gheeze Brenda!!! Way to make us all feel inferior!!! You'ver already read the chapter?!?!?!?!?!

Re: Keeping on Aperture priority all the time??? I guess that's why we are reading the book!!!! Personally, I keep mine on Tv at every football game. I get confused at to what is Aperture priority or Shutter priority. I think I am using Aperture priority as I can change the shutter speed on Tv mode. I love it!!!!

[LeeOtsubo]

I have read the first chapter and am hoping to get out a little this evening to experiment. One thing that I'm thinking is...why don't we just keep our cameras in aperture priority all the time? Just figure out what you want in your image, creatively, and pick the appropriate f stop? Why bother going to manual?

In Av, you set the aperture to suit the desired DoF while the camera sets the shutter speed. What if you want to keep the shutter speed above 1/500 to reduce motion blur? Av would just let shutter speed fall to wherever the camera decides.

[Elemobe]

Great to see this thread started. I will be joining in, but having trouble getting the book. I have given up trying to get it from Amazon (UK) as the date just kept getting later. In the meantime, I will be following your comments and progress here.

[bayhli]

I'm jumping in here too.... I have the book and will start "really" reading it this time.

Hey Linda and Lee! :)

[BrendaC]

I didn't get a chance to get out last night. But you know Lee, as I was driving to pick my son up last night, I realized why. Did you ever have one of those moments when a light bulb just came on? What made me realize it I think, were the pictures of the waves that are in the book. I realized that it was the shutter speed and not the aperture that created the differnent images. (I know it takes me awhile even having it in front of me in black and white.)
Colleen, is TV mode shutter priority? I always keep mine on shutter priority during sporting events too. Oh and don't tell my boss I read it at work.:eek: It was slow yesterday for the beginning of the month.

[kimh]

Yeah, glad to see we're getting started here. Will review chapter one while I'm doing cardio today and maybe can practice a little and post!
Thanks Colleen for taking control and getting us started:)
kimh

[nkeevers]

Aww, I didn't get my book yet...but it's been shipped from Amazon and I should get it shortly! And I just ordered it 3 days ago! Wonder why others are having trouble?

Looking forward to using manual. Though I do us Av mode a lot.

[mom to 4]

Norma:

I placed an order from Amazon a couple of days ago. It just shipped today. My initial confirmation said I would receive it by the 18!!!:eek: Well, i did choose the free shipping!!!!:rolleyes::D

[nkeevers]

I paid for the standard "whatever it is" shippping.

[mom to 4]

Norma:

Has to be faster than what I paid for....:D

[Elemobe]

I'm having problems getting the book because I'm in the UK and not so available here. However, hubby has hinted that I may be getting it as a birthday gift (happening soon) and to stop searching!!!

[nkeevers]

Norma:

Has to be faster than what I paid for....:D

Colleen, I paid $20.46.

[AngelicKim]

My experience with Amazon is no matter when they same to expect it, I always get it sooner. Hope this is the case for you two.

[mom to 4]

Norma:

I was talking about the postage price!!! Please tell me you didn't pay $20 for shipping:eek:. I have no idea what I paid for the book anymore. All I know that my instructional materials LIBRARY probably cost as much as my camera did!!!! And I still don't know how to do anything!!!

[douglas m scott]

Regular shipping was $3.99 from Amazon to Indiana.
doug

[mom to 4]

I go the cheapest way.... Free! I like free!!!:D:D

[Edmund]

I got both editions. I see by chapter 1 content that we will be using the revised second edition. Having gone thru both books it becomes apparent that the ultimate goal is to use the manual mode and spot meter for the correct exposure. That way you can adjust shutter speed or aperature for the particular image you want to express.
Eddie

[bayhli]

A couple of examples from my practice yesterday; I had to scamper down a deep embankment and into the swamp to get to moving water so I only took the one lens and a monopod to work with. (scampering?, more like a crawl at my age!)

In hindsight, I should of tried spot metering. Where would I have metered, the water or grass? (it was an overcast day and I was surrounded by brush) I was balanced on some roots to keep my butt out of the water so there were no choices to vary composition.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1xs7Nl8ERqSqU4lgDfAf89qCgGfVs0_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1xs7Nl8ERqSqU4lgDfAf89qCgGfVs0) f/16 http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1pUFoNPK3BLKpbMtnUIsNb70DvEf2R0_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1pUFoNPK3BLKpbMtnUIsNb70DvEf2R0) f/5.6

#1: f/16, SS 1/60
#2: f/5.6, SS 1/400
Applicable to both: AV Priority, ISO 200, Metering: Pattern, 17-85 lens @85mm

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1vdrqCPUZLqrTSTH5gKcis7wcdSwDT_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1vdrqCPUZLqrTSTH5gKcis7wcdSwDT) 1/200 http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1ORBCc3TowEU0TFBcXbZcM6xl1Mmt0_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1ORBCc3TowEU0TFBcXbZcM6xl1Mmt0) 1/8 sec

#1: SS 1/200, f/5.6
#2: SS 1/8, f/29
Applicable to both: Manual, ISO 500, Metering: Pattern, 17-85 lens @44mm

[Chuck S.]

Pat, those are excellent examples of the effects of aperture on depth of field and shutter speed on stopping motion (or not stopping it!).

What spot to meter? Find an area that your eye tells you would be a mid-tone, right in the middle of the range between darkest (black or near-black) and lightest (white or near-white). Not always easy to do because color kinda confuses the issue. But that should be the goal. In the case of the water, you have dark and light, but no mid-tone. The grass may be a little closer to mid-tone. At least to my admittedly suspect eye....:)

[bayhli]

Appreciate the advice Chuck,

I continue to struggle with metering so that's where I'm focusing at the moment. I didn't even think about it with these pics until I looked at them afterwards to be honest, which is my biggest problem. :rolleyes:

[Chuck S.]

Pat, my issue is with selecting exposure in one area of an image and focus point in a second area. My camera will do that, but not willingly.....:o

[bayhli]

Yes, that is difficult with mine too. It will hold the exposure (metering) but only for a few seconds and if I don't remember to check in the view finder to make sure it is still there after recomposing, well that's that. If I do remember, I can just press it back on from the memory. - Hopefully we are talking about the same thing... AE Lock.

:D My thumb is usually frantically searching for the button after I recompose - it's not in the greatest place!

[Chuck S.]

Pat, I agree about that exposure lock button placement! (I also have 30D)

[LeeOtsubo]

...I continue to struggle with metering so that's where I'm focusing at the moment. I didn't even think about it with these pics until I looked at them afterwards to be honest, which is my biggest problem. :rolleyes:

Hi Pat,
You might re-read my Monday Morning Tip from 2/12/07. Most of it is about applying Ansel Adams' Zone System to Color Photography but there's a short paragraph in the beginning about 18% Gray. There are many colors such as Coca Cola Red and Medium Blue Sky that meter the same as 18% Gray. So, when you don't have your gray card with you and there's not convenient gray area in the scene, you can substitute a color. Also, it's a good idea to meter the palm of your hand in sunny, cloudy and shady light so you know how much EC to dial in to approximate 18% gray.

[GaryK]

Pat

I thought the point of manual mode (in the book) was for you to meter..set the exposure and then compose??

[bayhli]

Well Gary..... ya stumped me there! :D

In manual mode, I set the shutter speed, focused (somewhere) and adjusted the aperture until the exposure mark in the viewfinder centred - which I take to be a "standard correct" exposure.

The CAMERA is indeed metering to guide the correct exposure, but on it's own (set to pattern usually) - I'm just not consciously controlling it or even thinking about it . Does that make sense?

....I better not be doing something stupid !! :eek: Or are you trying to tell me that I simply didn't follow the instructions in the book properly?

[bayhli]

Arrrgggh - I was away for most of February and missed reading that one! It's very good and I have some other similar reading material that is enhanced by your article. Thanks Lee - I'm going to go thru the rest of that month's now for others I may have missed.

It all makes sense to me when I'm reading it but it often becomes a muddle once I'm in the middle of the bush behind the camera. At least after your class I have now separated metering and focusing - thank you very much!
It's coming, I just have to keep at it. Mostly I have to remember to think about metering to begin with.

[bayhli]

I'm still into our book at this late hour, going thru Peterson's image examples with metering still heavy on my mind.

All his settings info is great and thankfully he includes where he took his meter readings from in many cases. One image in particular made me realize that what is missing for me is firstly, WHY he chose the particular area to meter from and WHAT the results would have been had he chosen another area to meter from. (In my mind there were two obvious metering choices in the image.) This is what would really help me get more than just a surface understanding, especially with so much variation in the images we take. Sure, I think about the possible answers but without knowing if I am right or not, it always remains fuzzy.

This is an important realization for me as none of the reading material or online material I've gathered is giving me enough for how I need to learn this.

So thanks for taking up the topic with me today everyone, it kept my mind buzzing around with it. Now at least I know what I need to do to move forward with this area again. Bonus learning for me from Chapter I. :)

I was worried about diverting this thread but since no one else from the group is posting their practice as yet, it should be ok.

[CalamityJanet]

Pat, I'm following along...I just haven't gotten out this week to work the exercises. It's just too hot, hazy and humid here still, with today's forecast temp to be in the mid 90's. You're discussions with Chuck and Lee have given me plenty to think about when I do get out in a few days, so thanks for taking the time! It's given me a head start.:)

I really like your practice shots. The second one is exactly the effect I would have been aiming for. I've been wanting to practice on some flowing water to learn how to get that nice silky look. But first I have to find some water that moves and isn't covered in scum and isn't reflecting a colorless drab sky! Here's a poorly done shot that I did the other day just to show Dave how miserable it was in the marshes that day. The water was draining into someplace unknown and it was slowly swirling.
http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1vril7ueeymyQEu3cfZjf7cz07NC_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1vril7ueeymyQEu3cfZjf7cz07NC)

See what I mean? Hopeless....:mad:

[mom to 4]

Janet:

I am with you!!! Too dang hot and humid here to be outside too! Went to Joe's football game yesterday and came home dripping!!!!

I read this chapter last year and did do some of the exercises then, but I really do need to redo them.

Also, Pat, there is a great chapter later in the book about metering. Yes, I know, we could use it now!

[CalamityJanet]

Colleen, and anyone else who's needing a change of climate,

We need to take a photo excursion to....Maine? At least two weeks would be nice. We could all bring our books and equipment and do this book club right! Sunrise photos on Cadillac Mtn. Lobster stew for lunch to take off the CHILL...late afternoon drive around the Acadia loop road. A nice fire in the fireplace to take off the CHILL while we review and discuss our day's work. A couple of glasses of our favorite evening beverage to take off the CHILL while we plan the next day's CHILLY outing.

Maybe one of our Canadians will host our club for a CHILLY day or two?

[mom to 4]

Sounds Like A Plan To Me!

[Edmund]

Here is a link to a answer to a previous thread I subscribed to about spot metering for the proper exposure. http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19500
I think this will help out to where you want to meter off of. I hope it is not too confusing. Any questions ask away. Look for the answer by "EDMUND". It actually will help all of us to read thru the whole thread as there is a wealth of info on spot metering and exposure.
Eddie

[Edmund]

Janet, your photo of the murky pond and the bright sky reflection ......I always use a polorizing filter to get rid of that nasty hot spot. Good example.
Eddie

[bayhli]

Janet,

I wasted an hour along our lakeshores trying to mimic the effect with small waves and fairly strong rapids - they didn't show anything. I'm sure if you find some rushing water you won't have any trouble duplicating the effect with the slower shutter speeds. I just lucked out finding that small spot at the end of my explorations. How nice it would be to have some waterfalls close-by to practice with.

Another thought I had as plan B, since I don't have a ferris wheel in the vicinity either, was to find a toy or something that whirls, lit up would be great. Anything that would show the motion blur is good practice I think.

The difference in our weather is amazing... we're averaging about 10 now and it's the drizzle keeping me inside at the moment. I don't blame you for wanting to stay indoors at those temps!

[bayhli]

Thank you for the link Eddie.... it DOES look informative.

I dragged out one of John Shaw's books this morning after remembering that I related more easily to his images and descriptions. At first glance, the thread you've pointed us to appears similar in nature, as well as what Chuck and Lee were eluding to.

This is great... I know what I'm going to be doing today.

[LeeOtsubo]

...How nice it would be to have some waterfalls close-by to practice with.

Another thought I had as plan B, since I don't have a ferris wheel in the vicinity either, was to find a toy or something that whirls, lit up would be great. Anything that would show the motion blur is good practice I think.

The difference in our weather is amazing... we're averaging about 10 now and it's the drizzle keeping me inside at the moment. I don't blame you for wanting to stay indoors at those temps!

Pat,
A test is just that, an experiment to try different settings or techniques. For moving water, you can use a shower (not while you're taking a shower!) or a handheld sprayer found on many kitchen sinks. You're shooting digital, each frame doesn't cost any more. This also lets you control the light while you experiment. A whirling object is a good idea, do you remember the ceiling fan in my office that I used in one of my Monday Morning Tips?

re: spot meters, your Canon 30D doesn't have a true spot meter. It has a partial spot (about 9%). True spot meters read about 1°-3° coverage. Also, while spot meters are essential for landscapes when applying Ansel Adams' Zone System, they're not very useful for moving subjects such as sports, critters (4 & 2 legged) or candids. If you really need a spot meter, use your histogram. (That may be a good subject for a future MMT) BTW, a good handheld spot meter from Minolta or Sekonic will set you back about US$400-US$700.

[Edmund]

Pat B,
Yes you are right I got that info from John Shaw's book and I took a weekend Photography class with him at Acadia National Park in 1998 thru "Great American Photography Weekend". It was well worth the money because it de-mistified manual exposure, spot metering etc. I struggled with it for years and now I can't see why I struggled at all. The seminar covered all aspects of nature photography such as composition, rule of thirds, exposure, flash techniques perspective, lense choice and on and on. This was prior to digital so no photoshop was covered. Maybe we should all meet at a seminar like that. At the time the price was not too bad , I believe around $400 for the weekend course. Now it's probably upwards of $700 or $800. If I remember correctly some of the images in my p-base gallery were taken at this seminar and I used these new learned techniques.
Eddie

[nkeevers]

Norma:

I was talking about the postage price!!! Please tell me you didn't pay $20 for shipping:eek:. I have no idea what I paid for the book anymore. All I know that my instructional materials LIBRARY probably cost as much as my camera did!!!! And I still don't know how to do anything!!!


Oops! Sorry, Colleen I meant the total price was that.

[bayhli]

Eddie,

I'm reading the previous thread you posted the link to and have a question.
http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com...ad.php?t=19500 (http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19500)

In post #6 Lowbone discusses taking pictures of BRIGHT WHITE Egrets in BRIGHT sunlight. In order to avoid blow-out in the white feather detail he sets his camera to (minus) -2 1/2 stops. (I assume this is the same as (minus) exposure compensation in AV mode etc).

Yet, in BRIGHT sunlight and BRIGHT WHITE snow, I apply (plus) +1-2 stops of exposure compensation to avoid the meter under-exposing the image and/or resulting grey snow.

So, at my current level of understanding, this seems like a metering contradiction to me. Conditions seem the same on one level - bright light and white yet we are doing opposite EC settings. Obviously there is a difference between the two scenes with regard to metering that I am not comprehending.

I've ran across other examples like this in my reading lately and just skim by because I can't even begin to apply any rationale.... could you elaborate on the difference(s) for me?

[GaryK]

Pat

I haven't looked at the other thread so this is a guess.
The scene with the egrets is not "all" egrets so the meter, meters the whole scene as 18% grey (we will just use that number) but the egrets are waaay brighter than 18% so they are over exposed.
In the snow scene (or a bright sand beach scene) the snow is the majority of the photo, so the snow is metered as 18% grey when in fact it is so much brighter. Hence the compensation.
Next week when you have snow :D try it, your snow photos will come out dingy.

If just the egrets were metered it would have been a somewhat close compensation to a full snow scene.

Maybe Eddie can shed some more light if that doesn't help.

[bayhli]

You are such a scream Gary... :D You are absolutely right - in 3 weeks or less I won't have to worry about metering very much, it'll all be the same for the white stuff! Which is why I'm now such a desperate person.

Thanks for your explanation. I have such a block going with this that I actually have to go think about what you have said and try to apply it. :rolleyes: I'll be back...

[GaryK]

Pat

A bit off topic. I was flipping the TV for a bit and CBC predicted a majority PC government. I'm thinking .. what the heck..how could I have missed voting (I always do, so I have a right to complain..:D)
Turns out it is the Newfoundland election today.:rolleyes:..phew.

[bayhli]

Isn't it tomorrow that we vote - 10th? I'm way worse than you because I have no interest in politics and rarely vote, and it's not because I forget but don't care to. Awful huh and I'm admitting it on the "national" web! But - I don't complain either! :D I don't know if you get the telephone solicitation out there for votes but we sure do. NDP called the other day and caught me in a particularly bad mood - I found their whole brainless speech so annoying and when she asked if they could count on my vote I said "NO" - lots of stammering around after that from the other end. (any party on the phone would have received the same reaction).

Back to metering - is the difference between the two scenarios that:
you are metering for "white" for the birds but metering for "bright" for the snow? Am I on the right track?

Edit: I realize there are many variables involved so I'm talking generalities. I also know there is dynamic range to consider but oh God I don't want to go there too deeply yet.

[GaryK]

Pat

As I mentioned I didn't see the other thread..maybe I should have a peek:D

My guess is that the birds were part of a larger scene, so their "white" only accounted for a small pecentage of the whole thing.
Think of it like this. If you take a shot at night of a small streetlight, the light will be totally blown out because the camera tried to make the whole scene 18% grey. The white light only accounted for a small pecentage of the shot. You will likely have a shot that is sort of murky grey as the camera assumes that the scene is 18%.

(when I mention the whole scene .. I am refering to the portion that is metered.. different cameras have different metering capabilities. I also don't want to harp on the 18% as it looks like from a previous post there may be some discussion around that)

I can't remember if this is in the book or not.
For fun try this
Get a piece of white paper and a piece of black paper.
Shoot only each sheet (nothing but the paper)and let your camera meter nothing but the paper.
This wont be perfect because of glare/reflections/creases etc but they will look very similar on your monitor. Both will be grey, or at least, neither will be black or white.

Gotta go get some milk ..be back in a minute or two.:D

[bayhli]

No, no.... no peeking Gary! I'm not meaning to tie you or anyone else up with this - I'll chip away at it with your answers to my questions and it will come. But don't think I won't be photographing little pieces of paper tomorrow. :D I've seen a similar exercise elsewhere, I don't think it's in this book tho.

Thanks Gary, I appreciate your help.

Sooooooo... who ya gonna vote for, you can tell us! ;)

[Edmund]

Eddie,

I'm reading the previous thread you posted the link to and have a question.
http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com...ad.php?t=19500 (http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19500)

In post #6 Lowbone discusses taking pictures of BRIGHT WHITE Egrets in BRIGHT sunlight. In order to avoid blow-out in the white feather detail he sets his camera to (minus) -2 1/2 stops. (I assume this is the same as (minus) exposure compensation in AV mode etc).

Yet, in BRIGHT sunlight and BRIGHT WHITE snow, I apply (plus) +1-2 stops of exposure compensation to avoid the meter under-exposing the image and/or resulting grey snow.

So, at my current level of understanding, this seems like a metering contradiction to me. Conditions seem the same on one level - bright light and white yet we are doing opposite EC settings. Obviously there is a difference between the two scenes with regard to metering that I am not comprehending.

I've ran across other examples like this in my reading lately and just skim by because I can't even begin to apply any rationale.... could you elaborate on the difference(s) for me?

Bayhli, I knew that I have seen the answer to this complex question but it took me a while to figure it out. I will para phrase what I read in one of my books by John Shaw. In reality what we have here is a most difficult lighting situation to meter and that is "Backlighting". The bright light coming from behind the white subject will grossly inflate the meter reading therefore if we shoot at this reading we will have a underexposed image, which will have lost detail on the shadowed side of the subject (camera side). Since the subject is being underexposed, what you need to do is open up about one or two stops. Also If your subject is set against a bright sunlit scene you know the exposure for a sunlit background is the old sunny f/16 exposure. To get the right exposure you would open up one or two stops. If your ISO is set at 100 then set your aperature at f/16 and you shutter speed to1/100, then open up one or two f stops from f/16. You can determine the exact amount by examining the histogram and check for blown out highlights.

In MHO I have found John Shaw's books to be a little easier to understand proper exposure techniques.
Hope this helps.
Eddie

[bayhli]

Thanks for taking the time with this Eddie - I would not have asked the question had I realized it was a more complex situation for metering. It does explain why I didn't understand it though.

This morning I found another reference to this type of situation in the Audubon Society's "Guide to Nature Photography" which fit with what you were saying, and I do understand it. It is described as "a seemingly contradictory departure from standard procedure" which is how I perceived it initially myself - so I don't feel quite so stupid for asking the question.

However, this is definitely beyond my skill level at the moment so it is back to basics for me. Hopefully it will stop raining later today and I can get out and start experimenting, armed with all your good advice

No more questions I promise!! Thanks everybody.

[Edmund]

Pat, Please don't ever feel that you cannot ask a question. I learned from your question as I had to go back in the archieves of my gray matter and figure this out and the light bulb went on when I remembered back lighted subjects. One of my hobbies has always been photography and now being a well seasoned senior citizen I chose to dabble with computers, Adobe PS CS2 and PS Elements. This is to keep the gray matter stirred up as my memory is starting to go. And believe it or not all the gifted photoshooppers enjoy the more challenging questions once in a while. I could also add one point about back lighting. Another way to handle it would be if one is using a long zoom one could then spot meter the shadowed side of the egret and the exposure would be more or less on (providing that all you meter is the shadow side not any bright stuff). I have a Nikon D-80 and love to play with the spot meter in Manual mode and just point it at the grass and see what exposure it comes up with and shoot the green lawn, look at the histogram to see if I were close. I use the exposure compensation to dial in my (+) or (-) stops. I then would delete the image and meter something else I feel is a mid tone etc. etc. You will be surprised how quickly you will feel in control of the camera not the auto mode in control of you. If absolutely no mid tones are available like in a winter all snow scene then one could spot meter the snow and open up 1-2 stops. In the other link I gave with the instructions of opening up or closing down you can substitute a color for the neutral tone. In other words if you meter off the green grass and want the grass to be dark green then stop down 1 (one ) stop.
Regards,
Eddie

[msbrad]

Hi
I'm trying to understand this thread, so bear with me.:o
Are y'all all reading this same book and then trying to get better with the camera kinda like an online class??
If so, can I play too? I have the book.
m

[mom to 4]

Welcome to the pool Michelle!!!

Pat, you can also flip to the back of the book where he talks about "Mr. Green Jeans" and the "Sky Brothers" I found myself reading that section on vacation and found it really interesting. I know that is moving ahead....I only have 4 more days to work on Capter 1!!!!!!! :eek:

[Bayla]

Wow, I've just discovered this thread and it's prompted me to dust off my copy of the book and see if I can come up with anything. What a great idea!

And to Linda (Elemobe) and anyone else in the UK having difficulties getting hold of the book, there are a couple of new copies available on Ebay. (& no bidders at time of writing)

Bayla

[bayhli]

Thanks Eddie, I'm certainly challenging my grey matter as well having just taken up the camera this year. I really appreciate your advice and having you follow along with our forum project. If memory serves me correctly, are you not working on archiving old family pictures and history? Huge and very interesting project! How is that coming along?

The sun is out today altho quite cool. So armed with a copy of the chart from Shaw's book you referenced and some simple notes, I'm going out to practice metering and see if I can't put this together. I'm thinking I've probably complicated this all too much in my mind and now have to step back with it.

I'm up in Northern Ontario and what I'm usually photographing are lakes and forest as we are surrounded by them. It gets kind of boring but there is lots of practice available at least.

[Elemobe]

Thanks Bayla, I will take a look. Have also discovered that Foyles have it in stock so will probably order it today.

Great thread - haven't a clue what anyone is talking about though:D - so very motivated to purchase the book and join in.

[Elemobe]

I have ordered the book from Foyles - and it is in stock!! So hopefully should arrive next week sometime.

Btw, Eddie, I keep meaning to say to you, you have my most favourite avatar. I just love that dog. Is he yours? He is just so handsome.

[Edmund]

Linda, I wish I could say that was my dog. Probably around 3 years ago my wife and I were looking for a puppy and I wanted a Black Lab but we went to a place called save a Pet and got a "Mix". The mother was a Golden retriever and the father either a black lab or a border collie. I found the avatar some where on the web and downloaded it. here is a shot of our "HONEY". She is a most wonderful dog which has given us so much joy and pleasure. I will one day try for a head good shot of Honey and replace my avatar.
Eddie

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1xi5xFl4NLUSs7ngvsnelD47DItEl1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1xi5xFl4NLUSs7ngvsnelD47DItEl1)

[bayhli]

Today I played in the culverts... #1 is taken at a shutter speed of 1/100 and #2 at 1/5 sec. Might have been interesting to use a polarizer to get past the reflection in the water and then there's that piece of brown grass that I didn't even see! Ah well, not like it's a grand waterfall or anything. Brian Peterson would be horrified all round! :D

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1PvXdBtmUXdsietKws7xfKHIHwOA8R_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1PvXdBtmUXdsietKws7xfKHIHwOA8R) http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1Z07lwohki9vPe6xxRMskotkKTfn_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1Z07lwohki9vPe6xxRMskotkKTfn)

p.s. Eddie, "Honey" is just lovely !

[nkeevers]

Decided to try something close at home so this is the fountain in my spa. The first taken at shutter speed of 1/800 (f/6.3) and the second at 1/40 (f/13). But I forgot to change my ISO so the first is at 400 and the second at 100. I'll have to try again with both the same. And there aren't many cloudy overcast days here in "sunny" florida so the shots were taken out in the sun.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1lSxUxaJkOQv1JT9NCDG1hukyuj6P_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1lSxUxaJkOQv1JT9NCDG1hukyuj6P)

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1iJ0VostKey76Ym7P8C4af09GUl0_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1iJ0VostKey76Ym7P8C4af09GUl0)

I'm really enjoying this book...Bryan is really explaining it well and I'm finally getting to enjoy using "manual" and actually know a little bit more about getting the right "exposure".

[mom to 4]

ok gang, everybody done with chapter one????:o:eek:;)

Not me!!! So this thread can still stay alive.

At some point tomorrow, I will start a new thread for the next chapter (or let me say, I will take a peak and see if we need to split up the next chapter) and I will post the link here and probably our original book club thread.

This thread is always here for those of us that are behind (BI!!!!). I will probably mention in the new link that I have posted in this thread all my questions from chapter 1!!!! Maybe I will get lucky and be able to get to it this afternoon!

[Elemobe]

Eddie, Honey looks fabulous. My hubby really wanted a black lab, boy, and we nearly got one recently. However with an 8 year old chocolate lab, 1 x 2 year old Rhodesian Ridgeback and 1 x 7 month old RR, we for once ruled with our heads and not our hearts and decided we had enough dogs.

I will also think of your avatar as "Edmund", the black lab.

The sun is out now, so a good time to get out and play with some shutter speeds.

[bayhli]

Great idea to use the fountain Norma, it's easy to see the effect of the slower shutter speed.

[mom to 4]

Ok, book club members...on to another chapter. Here is my thought. Normally we would be doing things a week at a time, correct?? Well, after looking at Chapter 2 Aperture, it looks a bit long to me, sooooo, my thought would be to spend this week working only on pages 36 through 51. We would start page 52 next week. It looks to me like there is considerable work on pages 36 through 51. If you think we should take 2 weeks on each segment, please let me know. Take a look at the book and post back here your preference 1 week or 2. Let me know if you think there is too much info in those pages for one week (PA is due to get lots of rain this week too;), but I digress (sp) Once I get a sense from you guys, I will post the next segment link here.

[bayhli]

Hi Colleen,

Splitting the chapter in two works for me, i.e. two weeks per full chapter at least for Aperture and Shutter Speed. So this week would be pages 36 thru 51. If we spend any more time than that it is going to drag out too long I think and interest usually wanes.

The reading and possibly further researching isn't that bad, it's getting out to practice it, practice being the most important to really learn what we're reading.

What's nice is that there is no pressure to submit "homework", altho we will learn from each other's work so it is nice to see, and with individual chapter threads it is possible to kind of work along at your own pace and spend more time in some areas if you want to.

I'm certainly willing to go along with the consensus so I hope more of us will weigh in.

[Edmund]

Looks good to me.
Eddie

[nkeevers]

I agree too! The reading is the easy part...it's the practice is the harder part. I usually try to get out on the weekend somewhere other than around my home.

[Debbie Z]

Edmund, I see that you have the Nikon D80. Do you find that it tends to overexpose? My experience has been that it does so by a couple of stops and I have to regularly underexpose by 0.7ev. Just curious is others also have this issue

[mom to 4]

Ok, here is the link for the first half of chapter 2!

http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/forum/showthread.php?p=319950#post319950

Good luck everyone!!!

[Edmund]

Debbie, I do not seem to have that problem. I kinda normally set my exposure compensation to 1/3 stop. Check the histograhm and go from there. It also depends on what mode you use. What do you use? I generally use manual, set either aperature or shutter for my specific purpose, spot meter a mid tone and do like I said before. I see a awlful lot of traffic on the Nikonians and Nikon Cafe forums indicating that problem. IMHO I seem to think it is the user and how they set up the camera and shot and so many other variables.
Eddie.

[Debbie Z]

Thanks Eddie. I normally set my compensation at .7 which is 2/3 stop. I usually shoot in manual as well. It seems similar to what you do.

[Elemobe]

My book has arrived!!! So now I can join in. Looks good.

Rugby is on telly tonight, so hubby will be absorbed and I will bury my head in this.

After having the book ordered on Amazon for some weeks, I cancelled and found it on Foyles - they had 9 in stock. 4 days after placing the order, still no book, so I rang. A very helpful girl said that something wasn't right with my order and she would look into and ring me back. Surprisingly she did, apologising and said there had been and error and that she had sorted out the problem, personally gone and picked the book and placed it in despatch ready to go. How's that for service!!

Foyles now have my future business. And, I have my book.

[kimh]

Hopefully not as much going on next week and I can join in:rolleyes:
Kimh

[msbrad]

I've read chapter 1...twice now. It makes great sense while reading, but I still get confused. Good to see the compensation number moves. I was wondering about that.
I still cannot seem to get the correct aperture and shutter and lighting...to co-operate if the subject is moving. But, I can get great blur.
m

[bayhli]

Michelle,

What camera are you using?

If you post a couple of your motion images and exif data, perhaps we can help with the settings. The shutter speed is the lead setting here.

Not to worry... it takes practice! The shutter speed chapter is just ahead.

The other thing is that when I first read this book, and still this second time around, I sometimes have to go to other simpler and more basic photography books and references to fully get his instruction. I still feel this is not a beginner's book - at least for some of us.

Linda... glad to hear your book arrived!

[Elemobe]

I have read, and even more surprisingly, understood Chapter 1. I have spent most of the day (not planned) taking photos and playing with my camera. Hubby suggested I got out for an hour or 2 and enjoy myself - I was gone within 10 minutes of him saying that;)

Have to say, I probably learnt more in that one chapter than I have ever done - I think it is the analogies, I love analogies. I could relate to work bees, faucets etc. I also have to say, I think I also took some of my worst photos today. The main reason being that I was concentrating on the technical stuff rather than the creative. Also learnt that bright water and dull rocks are hard to work with - exposures all over the place. Also learnt to check ISO - I still had it set on 1600 from last night when I was playing whilst reading Chapter 1:o

So here is my best effort, it is ISO 1600 (!) Shutter 1/13 and F/32 Focal length 126 - now even to my unexperienced eyes, those numbers look weird. So onto the next chapter to learn more. Also going to read through earlier posts in this thread as I think I may understand a bit more now.

Btw, Pat, guess which lens I used?;)

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1FfjOuYH530P7OMvhski6MjIpBFDi2_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1FfjOuYH530P7OMvhski6MjIpBFDi2)

[bayhli]

How pretty Linda - amazing you have that waterfall right close-by.

Good job I'd say - it looks like the area was open sunlight? Did you use a tripod or your monopod? If the settings look weird (?) they are probably a response to that 1600 ISO you forgot to change. :) I always forget to keep an eye on the shutter speed. I figured which lens you must have used, sure can tell.

Super that you've jumped right in - it would appear that I'm the only one who doesn't relate to Mr Peterson's analogies! :D