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L.J. DeRosier
September 4th, 2007, 01:02 AM
Hi All,

I'm kind of new here, and if you've read my other posts you probably notice that I usually don't write long posts, oh well...so much for that. I hope this post doesn't bore anyone to death, but I'd like to share some stuff I learned as well as look for some answers to problems I've had to deal with. (warning, my humor in this post...well...it's bad)

My BIG question: How do I get [consistent] OUTSTANDING prints from my PC and home photo printer. (I havent used a MAC [yet], my apologies to the Big Apples out there)

I know this is an old hashed-up and re-hashed subject, but this is really what the photography it is all about isn't it...an "outstanding final product". I have been experimenting with color management (a lot :($$:() and I was hoping to discuss it with those that are interested.

I use an Epson R1800, and shoot with a D70s, a D200, or a 5D...combinations which would be expected to give high performance output. But, out of PSE5, I get a wide assortment from "drop dead georgeous prints" to "I'm dead-in-the-water bad prints".

The BIG problem (mine at least): "Inconsistency" (assume correctly white balanced and properly exposed photos).

So ok, we can start with ,uhhemmm the dreaded words..."color management",(I think this should be a four letter word, actually counting the space it is the equivalent of 4 four letter words...yup, and it's appropriate too). The other BIG question...does this exist in PSE5? The answer is "yes", but it appears to be limited in the way it can be configured.

The Ultimate Solution: putting all the stuff into alignment so the characteristics of the monitor closely match the output of the printer (well, that is...in a perfect world, but this is what we all want right???).

A few points to discuss:

1. We need to deal with that nasty little word, "ICC profile". However, it really is the answer to standardize all our stuff...as elusive as it is.

2. The most obvious death sentence to any print is running two color management profiles (software and printer) simultaneously (just say NO).

3. Monitor calibration, an easy fix, but it has a BIG twist: To get outstanding monitor display you need a properly calibrated system. Macbeth is a good one, (soooo..."On a heath in Scotland, three witches, the Weird Sisters, wait to meet Macbeth"...ooops, I got carried away...wrong Macbeth). Anyway, GretaMacbeth Eye-One has been a good one for me.

To get a good idea of how your final print will look, (and some of this is a bit nit-pickey), you really need a good monitor that can handle Adobe sRGB and RGB (one that is warmed up nice and toasty for an hour or so...say goodbye to sleep mode), a black display hood on the monitor (yes...on the inside too :rolleyes:), a white room to work in, evaluative (5000K) lighting in the work [and proofing] area, and a good chair that lets you view from the same angle every time, (...oh and I almost forgot...a good dark beer, well...ok, its optional but it can't hurt).

As crazy as it may sound, even the color shirt you wear and clutter around the monitor can have an effect on the way the display looks when you need to be very critical about the final product. Each of these things alone may only have a minor effect, but add them all up and voila..."inconsistency" to the nth degree.

4. We need to be in the right "color space" and so does all the other stuff too ,(so pick a space...any space...coffee, tea or sRGB anyone)? Let's not leave out RGB and the CMYK output that the high school yearbook printers use.

OK, so this was L E N G T H Y......(and it only scratched the surface of this subject :eek:). I hope it inspires some questions and discussion, and in the end we all have a better understanding of our systems.

One last thing...H E L P!!!!!!!!!!!

wormmeshi
September 4th, 2007, 01:45 AM
I too wish there was a clear way do to color management. I've never been able to figure it out. A monitor comes with an ICC profile that is supposedly calabrated to the monitor so I use this in Windows color management. You can create another profile with Adobe Gamma (if you can figure out how to use it). Then the printer comes with its own ICC profile as does your scanner by the way. I have no idea what to do with these. Can anybody clear up this mess?

L.J. DeRosier
September 4th, 2007, 02:13 AM
That is a great question, and it’s the first thing anyone who gets a dark weird looking print will have to deal with. The best place to start is with the concept, MAC’s and PC’s, and different cameras and printers have different ways to achieve the same result. Concept one is to calibrate the monitor.

To begin with, I decided on a camera shooting space to use. I use sRGB, it’s as good space to start as any. Next calibrate your monitor and on a PC go into the control panel>dbl click display>click settings tab>click the advanced button>and click the color management tab. Usually the color profile is designated with a date created, and you will click the most recent one and apply it so it will be used on the monitor. That ends step 1.

The logical next step is to configure a work color space in PSE5, but I’ve been thrashing around on how to do this without much success. Maybe someone else can clear this part up???????

TonyW
September 4th, 2007, 07:16 AM
It is a tricky concept as Elements is probably the only properly colour managed program on your computer but once you grasp the principles it isn't that hard to get good results. Most of what I learnt comes from Codebreaker so read his posts on colour management and his website:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/colin_w/colour_management.htm

Here's what I do:

I shoot sRGB for several reasons. That's what my monitor, my Epson 300 printer, the outside labs I print at and the web can handle. So it's universal and I don't have to remember to convert from AdobeRGB to sRGB before Saving for the Web or printing outside.

I calibrate my monitor with a Huey that does everything you need - no need to worry about finding the profile it's created for the monitor to use. It puts the right one in the right place.

I have Color Settings in PSE5 set to Always Optimize for Computer Screens. That uses sRGB for new or untagged documents/images so again I don't have to worry about converting. You only have three choices in Elements. No color management which ignores the embedded profile. Always Optimize for Computer Screens as per above and Always Optimize for Printing. That's a bit of a misnomer as what it does is use AdobeRGB ONLY if it doesn't find a profile or you're starting with a new document. So in my case with my camera shooting sRGB that's what it would use. It's a good idea to check the document profile (Window>Info>More >Palette Options and make sure Document Profile is checked so you can see what you are using)

When I print I use the ICC profile specific to my printer and the paper I'm using and turn off colour management in the printer.

That works for me.

Tony

L.J. DeRosier
September 4th, 2007, 12:06 PM
Thanks Tony,

I also use sRGB and Always Optimize for Computer Screens for the same reasons as you, and thanks for the link.

The Eye-One also creates and puts the most recent profile in place for the monitor, as you indicated with Huey. I'm a little nutty on this, I just look afterwards to be sure...probably not necessary.

If things can go wrong, using the ICC profiles is an area where this can happen, like running an ICC profile and Adobe Gamma at the same time.

Here is a link that talks about this:
http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=321608&sliceId=1

Tony, do you apply your ICC profiles under the advanced tab in the print menu?

ljameso1
September 4th, 2007, 12:42 PM
LJ, Try not to shoot me, but I have a sneaky suspicion that the answer to your frustration is to get a mac.:D I've used the same old apple for 5 yrs now. I do shoot sRGB, have PSE set to optimize for screen, and never allow my printer to color manage; however I also haven't needed any outside color profilers. I just use apple's built in profiler every few months. REALLY like my prints on the FIRST try.

L.J. DeRosier
September 4th, 2007, 12:50 PM
I want to get an ICC profile for my paper, ink, and printer. You can get ICC profiles from Epson. After downloading the profile I have trouble getting the the files to open properly.

Here is a MAC method from Yves Perrault over at dpreview.com:
To open an icc profile downloaded from the epson site, replace the file extension (.sea) with .app. Launch this .app and it will extract a 'vise' installer. Launch the installer to install the profile.

I havent had much luck on the PC with this. Does anyone know how to do it?

Much thanks.

TonyW
September 4th, 2007, 12:56 PM
Tony, do you apply your ICC profiles under the advanced tab in the print menu?

Yes although I print from the Editor and I don't think it has an Advanced tab - it just shows the source space and lets you select the printer profile (which in my case in shows up as SPR300 Premium Glossy for the Epson R300 with Epson Premium Glossy Paper). You then need to go into Page Setup>Printer which mine is set to open with the Advanced settings and make sure ICC is selected and No Color Management is checked (that's for the Epson printer driver - other printers will be different). I have settings saved for my standard 4x6 and 8x10 borderless prints.

Tony

L.J. DeRosier
September 4th, 2007, 01:09 PM
Thanks Tony, that is the same way my R1800 works.

Linda, I do want to go with a MAC, I just haven't made the leap yet. I've seen the MAC print window and it looks great.

TonyW
September 4th, 2007, 02:22 PM
I want to get an ICC profile for my paper, ink, and printer. You can get ICC profiles from Epson. After downloading the profile I have trouble getting the the files to open properly.

Not sure what the problem would be - you can get the R1800 ones here:

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/EditorialAnnouncement.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=59082650

As I recall you just run the exe file and they unzip and you're ready to go - I assume they your's would be called SPR1800....... Just can't remember if it put them in the right place or if you had to do that manually (in my case they were icm not icc files and they go in C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\drivers\color.

Tony