Is KW Media a Victim of Success

[Rusty]

I have no desire to accumulate statistics, but we seem to have a lot of people on line every time I sign into the forum.

Internet problems now seem to be the rule rather than the exception.

I assume it's not my PC or my ISP because when I switch to other sites, everything just humms along without any hiccups.

I have had to leave this site 3 times today due to "cannot display this page" after clicking threads to view. I try to go back to the welcome screen - cannot display that either.

I know KW has made "server changes" recently so I assume they recognize problems.

Folks, it ain't working.

Rusty

[GaryK]

Rusty

Strange.. I've been on and off all day, but haven't had any problems at all.:confused:

[Russinator]

When I use my desktop I never have a problem. However, when I use the laptop [WiFi] I almost always have the type of problems you're describing.

In my case, I'm thinking that the unit that's sending my WiFi signal is going bad. I think this because when I'm away from home and use other WiFi setups, it never happens.

Russ

[dondiego]

Hi Rusty:
I had similar experience last Sunday and I used a laptop.:confused:

[Tina_B]

I am using a desk top and having problems for the last couple of weeks.
Tina B

[pwilder]

Sorry you're having problems Rusty. We haven't seen any problems of significance since we switched to our new server configuration. It is possible that the connection between your computer and our server is problematic; however the way the Internet works is beyond our control.

Paul Wilder
Director of Information Technology
KW Media Group

[Ritage]

I have all the problems Rusty describes on a Desk Top with high speed cable. Also browser shutdown. Some days are worse than others, but it's been going on for weeks. No such problems with other sites.

Rita

[pwilder]

Rita -

Your browser shutting down would indicate a computer problem, not a problem with our website. If you try troubleshooting, it could be a problem with a plug-in our website tries to use; such as QuickTime if your browser consistently shuts down when you try playing back video files.

- Paul

[Ritage]

Paul,

thank you for your reply. I've had no problems with video files, when I have been able to get to the proper subscriber pages, which does not always work on first or even second try.

I've had 4 browser shutdowns over the past several weeks while reading on the forum or looking at the galleries. I'll have a chance to consult a more technically inclined friend of mine this coming weekend and hope he'll check out my computer.

Rita

[Rusty]

I don't know what "browser shutdown" means.

If that means I lose my internet connection -- that is not what is happening to me.

If that means I get the "cannot display this page screen" -- yeah, that's what is happening to me - on this website, a lot lately.

As I said, when I leave this site and go elsewhere, everything works just fine almost all the time. Like Rita, I'm running a desk top PC with a high speed cable connection. Everything is "plugged in", no WiFi, no network ... a plain vanilla set up. OK, you can say, "it's a computer problem", to which my attitude is, "maybe, but it appears to be confined to this website."

Rusty

[Ritage]

Rusty,

I don't lose my connection to my ISP, if that's what you mean. IE just puts up a box saying it has to shut down and does so. I can re-open it immediately, so it's not really a big deal, but annoying, and happens only on this web site.
"Cannot display this page" happens much more frequently, both when I want to open the forum itself and when clicking on another thread and in the subscriber area. But, as you say, only here.

We can't be the only ones, can we?

Rita

[Rusty]

I know what you mean now, Rita,
I have gotten the "must shut down" message on very, very, very rare occasions and can't even remember when the last time was.

I am getting the "cannot display page" message on this website. I get it when I click a thread, or maybe when I try to move to the next page of a thread. After that happens, I usually get it repeatedly when I try to click the back arrow to get out of the thread. Then I will click the red/white "X" to get completely "out" and, when I use favorites to try to get back into the website, "cannot display etc"

Wait 20 minutes and try again. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

Frustrating. (and it's only happening on this website)

Rusty

[Ellen]

Rusty- Same problems here as you are describing, I've gotten the "cannot display" at random times before and after the server upgrade. I have DSL and when this site gives that message there is no such problem on any other site except for the napp mothership site. Sometimes however napp will work when pet doesn't. It is frustrating but not the end of the world.

edit
adding that it just gave the cannot display as I posted reply

[pwilder]

Hi Rusty! Given what you’ve explained here; experiencing ongoing problems where pages will not load at all is still indicative of a problem with the Internet connection at some point between our servers and your computer. If it was a problem with your Internet service provider, you would likely experience problems with all sites as you stated. If it was a problem with our servers, all or many people using our site at that point in time would experience the same problem. That typically results in myriad complaint posts as well as an increase in customer service complaint calls. We have seen neither of these indicators.

If there was anything I thought I could do to improve your situation; I would certainly take steps to mitigate the problem. I’ll definitely make sure we monitor the servers closely for the next few days. Unfortunately there isn’t much else I can do, given that all the data I have indicates we have had virtually 100% uptime for the past couple weeks now. If you experience another period where pages will not load; the only thing I could suggest is that you provide us with traceroute information to www.photoshopelementsuser.com (http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/) from your location, since that may be useful to determine why our pages are not loading properly for you. Simply send that in using our customer service contact form http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/contact.php (http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/contact.php) so they can make note of the problem, and ask them to forward the traceroute information to me for review.

- Paul

[Rusty]

Thank you, Paul,

What you are saying makes sense to me. Unfortunately, I haven't the slightest idea what traceroute information is. :)

Rusty

[Inspeqtor]

Rusty and Paul,

I have also had problems from time to time not being able to get online to this website. I also have high speed cable, with no problems at those times to any other site.

Paul, you mentioned doing a traceroute. I did that one other time, but I don't remember a thing as to how I did it. Would you please post instructions again as to how that is done?

Thank you Paul, I do know you and everyone else work hard at keeping this site up and running as much as possible. I really do appreciate your hard work, and I am sure sometimes LONG hours :)

[pwilder]

On a Windows system, just open a command prompt and type "tracert www.photoshopelementsuser.com".

It will take a minute or so and will return several lines of data indicating the routers that information flows through between your computer and our website and how many milliseconds it takes for the data to travel between those routers. What I'm hopeful for is that we will see packets dropping at some point, indicating where the problem is, so we can resolve whatever is causing these intermittent issues for a few of you.

On a Macintosh system, open the Network Utility application and there is a traceroute function built into that utility.

- Paul

[nkeevers]

I have DSL and I've had numerous problems since the "upgrade". I've never had my browser shut down but I've had problems getting on the site where I don't have problems with any other sites. Sometimes it will take me 3 tries. The site's also been very slow but that is probably just because so many are on at any given time. I've also had a problem several times where when I use the scroll bar to check down thru the threads, the text and stuff goes elongated and can't be read (hard to describe). Then it comes back in a minute.

I know all is being done to make this site the best it can be so I'm bearing with it but it can get frustrating at times.

[JulieM]

Hi Paul: I continue to experience intermittent problems of pages hanging before loading fully. This is happening only on this site. Is that the type of thing you'd like the traceroute on? If so, I have a question with how to provide that to you. When I run the command, I get 15 or so lines of info but the box closes itself down immediately upon completion without giving me time to copy it. Am I doing something wrong? Thanks!

[Rusty]

OK, Paul,

Let's take it a bit slower. Remember, you ain't talking to Bill Gates :)

The next time I start getting squirrelly stuff, is this what I'm supposed to do?

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1cqyYye87Qu7F5WrtWjEXAcRVG0ue1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1cqyYye87Qu7F5WrtWjEXAcRVG0ue1)

and then: Simply send that in using our customer service contact form http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/contact.php so they can make note of the problem, and ask them to forward the traceroute information to me for review.


I go to that address and, will that then tell me how to attach that screen shot?

Thanks for spending the time to try to help me.

Rusty

[pixlbandit]

I get the cannot display page problem when I try to read the forum, varying from around 10ish to 11ish in the morning. Doesn't matter what day of the week, Sunday too. This has happened since the server migration on a regular basis (before it was irregular). Last time I had this happen, I also had the same problem trying to read Radiant Vista, but not elsewhere. One would think that the usage on my cable modem line would vary from weekdays to weekend with regard to time of day.... Quite frustrating. Given that, I suppose that it is good that school/work has started again because now I don't have time to read here very often.
Vicki

[JulieM]

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1cqyYye87Qu7F5WrtWjEXAcRVG0ue1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1cqyYye87Qu7F5WrtWjEXAcRVG0ue1)


Rusty

Rusty: You've done better than I have so maybe you can help me get a lovely screen shot like yours! These are the steps I followed: Start - Run - "tracert www.photoshopelementsuser.com". It gave me a box similar to yours, but only gets as far as Dallas and then the box just disappears! Never gives me the trace complete line. Any ideas?

[Rusty]

Julie,

I didn't have any idea what a Command Prompt was so I opened Windows Explorer, clicked Help and then did a Search for "command prompt". I blundered around on the resulting screen(s) and spotted a link that said something like "open command prompt window", clicked that and got the black screen.

Wow, shades of DOS 6.0 :)

I typed in "tracert www.photosh...etc, etc" and what apparently is a "full trace" appeared. That stayed on the screen until I clicked the "X" to close that window.

I wasn't sure what to do with it; I wasn't about to try to write all that gibberish down so I did Ctrl-Print Scrn and then opened Elements and created a new file using Image From Clipboard. That Jpeg file is what I posted here and, I assume is what I'm supposed to somehow send to Paul via KW Media.

Hopefully, somebody will chime in now and confirm or otherwise tell me what I'm supposed to do with that black-screen data after it is created.

Rusty

[pwilder]

Yes Rusty, that black screen is exactly what I'm looking for. Hopefully when you are experiencing a problem, it will help indicate where the problem is. A fast way to get the command prompt box to appear is to click "start" then "run..." Simply type "cmd" in the run box and click "ok" and your command prompt box will appear.

Another more simplistic troubleshooting step you can take is to see if you can get this page to load even when other pages are not loading properly for you. http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/serverid.php If it will load, having the first line of information from that page may be useful since it indicates which one of our servers you are connected to. If several people have a problem with one of our servers, then I can look into what's going on with that specific server.

- Paul

[Wendy]

OK ...

I am now having problems pages are loading going really slow and stopping and starting ..

... and the top line says web04.tpa.kwmediagroup.com

Wendy

[Ritage]

On a Mac, Wendy? Impossible:D
Rita

[pwilder]

Hi Wendy - The good news is web04 is flawless at the moment (as are all our other servers). That was just something in addition to a traceroute that may be useful. If it is slow for you right now, I can pretty much guarantee you that is an Internet connectivity problem, where a traceroute may be useful.

[GaryK]

Julie

In the run box type cmd first, that will open the window (dos looking thing) until you click the x to close it. You can then type the tracert command as Paul has suggested.:)

[Wendy]

Gosh Paul ...

It sure is a strange connectivity problem as it was only when I connected to this site ... loading any other sites was working just fine ???

Wendy

[troush]

Wendy,

Think of the internet like a fishing net. If you wanted to get from one knot to another, there are many different paths to travel. Same with the internet. To come to this site, you might be passed through servers A, B, and C today, and then A, B and D tomorrow (because B was reconfigured). To get to the DDD site, you are probably going through X, Y, and Z, a totally different path.

BTW, I too ocassionally get those "server to slow" or something like that (I'm using Firefox) pages. I usually just reload, and it comes up.

-Trish

[lindaf]

I had the same problem not to long ago. I bought a new router and my signal is alot stronger now. I get on this website without any problems at all. Maybe you can check that. Just a suggestion.

[JulieM]

Julie

In the run box type cmd first, that will open the window (dos looking thing) until you click the x to close it. You can then type the tracert command as Paul has suggested.:)

Thanks, Gary. Got it now...

[Wendy]

Hi Trish ...

Yes I do understand how it works ... but it seems very strange that this is the only site I have these problems with :(

Wendy

[RobertSchuldenfrei]

Gosh Paul ...

It sure is a strange connectivity problem as it was only when I connected to this site ... loading any other sites was working just fine ???

Wendy
Hi Wendy,

It may seem like a paradox, but you and Paul may be both correct. If just one Trace Route jump before Paul's computer complex there is a slow link you will see the phenomena of a slow forum. Paul's machines are running fine. You get the "slows." Since you do not go through this slow link for any other website, you conclude KW Media is to blame. This is why Paul suggested using Trace Route.

I hope that this takes some of the "heat" off of Paul and helps him get to the root (no pun intended) cause of the problem.

Cheers,

Bob

[Chuck S.]

It would seem.....if the only website that's affected is this one, there must be a narrow conduit at the end of the re-routing, i.e., an electron 'traffic jam' at the door to this house or at least at the gate to the community.....

:confused:

[JulieM]

I have the same problem as Wendy at times and I swear it is only on this site. It would seem that our computers are taking the wrong route to get to Paul's (though they seem to find the right route to get to other computers). What are we to do, give them a new map or a GPS perhaps? This whole thing mystifies me...

[nkeevers]

Don't be mystified...join the club! I have the same problem! And I don't have problems with my other sites. Only here.:twisted::eek:

[JulieM]

Don't be mystified...join the club! I have the same problem! And I don't have problems with my other sites. Only here.:twisted::eek:

Norma: Geez, Norma. Seems like your computer could find Paul's easily enough. Aren't you pretty much neighbors? :D

[GaryK]

Strange thing is I haven't had any probs with this site (since the server upgrades).:confused:

[NMarti]

I do still have ocassional problems but not anything like it used to be. Funny thing is that it is only with this site. When this one won't connect, I can go directly to Scrappers or other sites and get right on with no problem.

[websi]

I'm not a "techie" but if geographical location means anything, I'm in Matthews NC uisng Road Runner as my server and have not experienced this problem. As much as this forum is accessed (and for exceptionally good reason) I would be frustrated also.

[Bayla]

I just discovered this thread and found it interesting as well as perplexing. I experience the same problems as Wendy, Norma, Nancy, Julie....and it's only this site. Whenever it starts running slow or I get a 'Cannot load the page' error message I switch to DDD or Scrapper's Guide or practically any other site and have no problems whatsoever:confused:

Bayla

[RobertSchuldenfrei]

It would seem.....if the only website that's affected is this one, there must be a narrow conduit at the end of the re-routing, i.e., an electron 'traffic jam' at the door to this house or at least at the gate to the community.....

:confused:
Hi Chuck,

Yes, if his ISP is the bottle neck or one just sits a link away from the ISP it may be trouble for him. I do not know who their ISP is, although a little hunting would make that known, but if the problem lies there they may be able to jump ship. As KW Media becomes larger they will need to hook up with connections with really big pipes.

People in this thread keep harping on: "because I only have this problem with KW, it must be KW's fault." KW could be a victim here, albeit a victim with options to solve the problem.

Cheers,

Bob

[pwilder]

We actually have multiple Gigabit Internet connections for our servers, and our new configuration allows us to add more bandwidth very quickly should we ever get to that point. We have experienced bandwidth problems in the past; however we should have plenty of excess bandwidth available at the moment. I've only seen one traceroute so far, and it did indicate a timeout problem, but that’s not enough for me to act on given that we have thousands of apparently problem-free visits to our site daily. Unfortunately, I need more data to determine what may be causing the problem and what action steps may be appropriate. I’ve got our server support people monitoring things closely, but the only way I can track down sporadic network problems is for any of you that experience a problem to provide traceroute data gathered during the time period you are not able to access the site.

- Paul

To Clarify: Please post as soon as possible after you experience a problem and provide the date and time of the problem, a traceroute if possible, and any other details you think may be useful for troubleshooting.

[JulieM]

We actually have multiple Gigabit Internet connections for our servers, and our new configuration allows us to add more bandwidth very quickly should we ever get to that point. We have experienced bandwidth problems in the past; however we should have plenty of excess bandwidth available at the moment. I've only seen one traceroute so far, and it did indicate a timeout problem, but that’s not enough for me to act on given that we have thousands of apparently problem-free visits to our site daily. Unfortunately, I need more data to determine what may be causing the problem and what action steps may be appropriate. I’ve got our server support people monitoring things closely, but the only way I can track down sporadic network problems is for any of you that experience a problem to provide traceroute data gathered during the time period you are not able to access the site.

- Paul

Thank you, Paul, for providing us with that information. I will try to provide traceroute data for you and hope that others who are experiencing problems do as well.

[JulieM]

People in this thread keep harping on: "because I only have this problem with KW, it must be KW's fault." KW could be a victim here, albeit a victim with options to solve the problem.



With all due respect, Robert, I honestly don't hear any "harping" going on here. What I am hearing is the frustration of quite a few regular and/or longtime users of this site who are experiencing genuine problems and who wish that the site would resume functioning the way it used to.

[Wendy]

Exactly !! :)

.. however from Roberts post I don't think that he quite realises just how big an organisation KW media is :D:

Wendy

[Rusty]

Gee, since I started this thread, it's only fitting that I chime in here.
I have seen numerous people say just what I'm saying, "yes, happens to me, ...yes, only on this site, ...etc" (and, to be balanced, some are saying no problems at all, ever.)

But, look at what Paul said: I've only seen one traceroute so far, and it did indicate a timeout problem, but that’s not enough for me to act on given that we have thousands of apparently problem-free visits to our site daily.

Well, guess who submitted that "one traceroute"? -- yes, ME. This is not a case of beating up on KW, this is Paul - attempting to help us - but we ain't giving him the tools he needs to do so. Stop just talking about it. Send him the facts he needs as soon as possible after the "event".

Here is what I sent to him:

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1vNl4lB9bsqtIJ2hiLO5ozEUatOVD0_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1vNl4lB9bsqtIJ2hiLO5ozEUatOVD0)

I added the date/time to the screenshot and, immediately after I got the "cannot display message" I ran IE diagnostics just to show -- this is really not working, not some guy smoking funny cigarettes.

Start doing what I did; send it to Paul via PM (I never could figure out how to make the cited contact-website work). If we give him enough info he can probably make something happen. Otherwise, "Oh, that's just that guy in Wisconsin..."

Rusty

[JulieM]

Rusty, I sent one to Paul in the last hour or so. He didn't "like" mine as much as he "liked" yours. My problem is that the failures are brief for me so getting the traceroute done while the connection is still down is tough. But, I will keep trying...

[GaryK]

Hi guys.

One other consideration, and I don't mean this in any negative way. I am fortunate to not have had any issues.
How much time do we spend on here as opposed to other sites? A few hiccups here and we might notice more.
Mind you from Rusty's post the problem was a few hops before Orlando.

I have just spent the past half an hour or so "stumbling" (fun way to find some pretty weird sites :D.. I know get a life :rolleyes:) and have pulled up a few really slow loads as well as a few "page could not be founds".

just my thoughts.

[Byron Gale]

Was just reading the forum and looking into the Gallery when suddenly began receiving the "cannot find server" time-outs. Outage lasted for about four minutes. This tracert taken right in the middle of things.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/11ivfmEfd6OGkOs7BK7vw2X5FDA6Ax1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=11ivfmEfd6OGkOs7BK7vw2X5FDA6Ax1)

[Inspeqtor]

Byron,

I was having a problem a little bit ago myself. I tried doing the traceroute, but all I could get was timeouts, which I knew would not help Paul at all.

[Wendy]

Byron ...

I had the same problem as Charles ..

Wendy

[RobertSchuldenfrei]

Exactly !! :)

.. however from Roberts post I don't think that he quite realises just how big an organisation KW media is :D:

Wendy
Hi Wendy,

How big is KW Media? You are right, I do not know anything about them.

Cheers,

Bob

[nkeevers]

Gee, since I started this thread, it's only fitting that I chime in here.
I have seen numerous people say just what I'm saying, "yes, happens to me, ...yes, only on this site, ...etc" (and, to be balanced, some are saying no problems at all, ever.)

But, look at what Paul said: I've only seen one traceroute so far, and it did indicate a timeout problem, but that’s not enough for me to act on given that we have thousands of apparently problem-free visits to our site daily.

Well, guess who submitted that "one traceroute"? -- yes, ME. This is not a case of beating up on KW, this is Paul - attempting to help us - but we ain't giving him the tools he needs to do so. Stop just talking about it. Send him the facts he needs as soon as possible after the "event".

Here is what I sent to him:

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1vNl4lB9bsqtIJ2hiLO5ozEUatOVD0_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1vNl4lB9bsqtIJ2hiLO5ozEUatOVD0)

I added the date/time to the screenshot and, immediately after I got the "cannot display message" I ran IE diagnostics just to show -- this is really not working, not some guy smoking funny cigarettes.

Start doing what I did; send it to Paul via PM (I never could figure out how to make the cited contact-website work). If we give him enough info he can probably make something happen. Otherwise, "Oh, that's just that guy in Wisconsin..."

Rusty


Do we do the traceroute immediately after having a problem with the site?

[TonyW]

Byron,

I was having a problem a little bit ago myself. I tried doing the traceroute, but all I could get was timeouts, which I knew would not help Paul at all.

Charles: I'm not sure you're right there - I think it's where the timeouts are occuring is what would be useful info. I know in my case it sometimes times out either with Rogers in Toronto or New York although I also have a problem with errors and dropped connections on the DSL line to my ISP at the moment, especially during busy times. It does seem that once I get past New York it's plain sailing to the Tampa servers.

Tony

[Rusty]

Yes, Norma,
run it immediately

Rusty :)

[Inspeqtor]

Tony,

This is what I got. No info here :(

1377

[Rusty]

Charles, you don't have the address exactly correct. I wonder if that's why you are getting an immediate timeout?

You are using: "www.photoshopelements.com"
Tyr it with "www.photoshopelementsuser.com"

Rusty

[nkeevers]

Thanks Rusty! Next time I have a problem, I'll send one.

[Inspeqtor]

Ahhhhh yes... Thank you Rusty!!

[GaryK]

Rusty

Kind of strange.. I am playing with this on and off.:)

I typed in a nonsensical address with the www and the .com just to see, and I never got a time out. It just said the DNS couldnt be reseloved or something to that effect. I thought for sure it would at least get to my ISP.:confused:

[Inspeqtor]

Norma,

I have found you cannot copy/paste into the command screen, so you have to type it in. Because of this, I am going to have the command screen open and the line "tracert www.photoshopelementsuser.com" typed in everytime BEFORE I log into the forum, for those times I may need it. It takes long enough to type it in, it will be better to have it ready before you need to use it.

[GaryK]

Charles/Norma

Now we are getting into some really pain in the but stuff.:D

Once you open the command window you can type doskey <enter>
Then do the tracert command thing.
If you don't close the command window, hitting F3 should retype the whole command string again. Then you just need to hit enter and away it goes.
Good for quicker multiple tries.:)

I just tried it again.. you might not have to use the doskey command. Try the F3 button and it may retype.
You can't close the window but you can minimize it for the retype to work.

[Juergen D]

Just a little procedural help. Run tracert in the command box. When it finishes, right click in the box. Click on Mark. Click and pull the cursor from the upper left corner to the lower right corner. Hit Enter. Come here or to something like Notepad (for attachment to an email) and paste:

Microsoft(R) Windows DOS
(C)Copyright Microsoft Corp 1990-2001.

C:\DOCUME~1\OWNER>tracert www.photoshopelementsuser.com

Tracing route to photoshopelementsuser.com [66.118.141.207]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 10 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms .... (edited)
4 10 ms 10 ms 9 ms .... (edited)
5 18 ms 21 ms 19 ms 12.124.91.37
6 48 ms 47 ms 47 ms tbr2.ormfl.ip.att.net [12.123.33.14]
7 50 ms 49 ms 49 ms tbr1.attga.ip.att.net [12.122.12.121]
8 48 ms 50 ms 51 ms cr1.attga.ip.att.net [12.122.17.17]
9 52 ms 48 ms 48 ms cr2.wswdc.ip.att.net [12.122.1.174]
10 48 ms 47 ms 47 ms tbr1.wswdc.ip.att.net [12.122.16.38]
11 47 ms 47 ms 47 ms ggr4.wswdc.ip.att.net [12.122.80.45]
12 47 ms 47 ms 48 ms 192.205.34.110
13 76 ms 76 ms 74 ms Lightspeed-IP-Inc-Triple-8.ge-3-0-0.ar2.TPA1.gbl
x.net [64.214.175.194]
14 76 ms 75 ms 74 ms GigE2.ds-b.03.tpa.sagonet.net [65.110.32.110]
15 73 ms 74 ms 73 ms www.photoshopelementsuser.com [66.118.141.207]

Trace complete.

C:\DOCUME~1\OWNER>


Juergen

[pixlbandit]

Interestingly, when I have problems here, I also have problems connectiong to Radiant Vista, which, geographically speaking, is also in the Southeast. There may be a common node. Last time I had problems was two days ago (Wed. morning) when it timed out at 7:49 am PST US time. I had just finished reading (not memorizing) Paul's information on the traceroute, but since I had only bookmarked it rather than copying it to a document stored on my computer, I couldn't access the information to do a traceroute then. I now have it in a saved wordprocessing document and a shortcut to the command window on my desktop.... When I have problems it is usually for a duration of an hour or more.

I don't seem to have problems connecting elsewhere. How much time do I spend connected to other sites? Well, work site, usually all day long everyday, even when I am not at home. But that is within 20 miles although I do have several other windows open right now too.

BTW, KW Media is "a 20 million dollar operation," according to one news source which surprised me (no, I don't remember which, but it came from a Google search a few months ago). I think it is easy to be unaware of how large an operation it is because we see the company principles doing the hands-on work which is rather unusual in the business world, and assume it is much smaller.

Vicki

[troush]

If you have a cmd window open, pressing the "up arrow" key will bring up the perviously typed command (after you have typed it once). Does the same thing as F3.

BTW, Here's mine... Only I haven't had a time-out yet today...


Tracing route to photoshopelementsuser.com [66.118.141.207]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms <1 ms 192.168.2.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 8 ms 9 ms * (edited) [68.86.129.41]
4 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms (edited) [68.86.103.37]
5 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 68.86.128.49
6 12 ms 10 ms 9 ms 12.116.159.5
7 28 ms 34 ms 27 ms tbr2.dvmco.ip.att.net [12.123.207.142]
8 30 ms 28 ms 28 ms tbr1.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.10.117]
9 29 ms 26 ms 28 ms ggr1.chail.ip.att.net [12.123.4.13]
10 29 ms 28 ms 28 ms p2-2.IR1.Chicago2-IL.us.xo.net [206.111.2.121]
11 28 ms 28 ms 28 ms 65.106.6.169.ptr.us.xo.net [65.106.6.169]
12 42 ms 43 ms 115 ms p1-0-0.RAR1.Dallas-TX.us.xo.net [65.106.0.34]
13 42 ms 43 ms 42 ms 65.106.4.226.ptr.us.xo.net [65.106.4.226]
14 86 ms 79 ms 80 ms 207.88.185.18.ptr.us.xo.net [207.88.185.18]
15 78 ms 79 ms 81 ms GigE4.ds-b.03.tpa.sagonet.net [66.118.133.214]
16 78 ms 79 ms 79 ms www.photoshopelementsuser.com [66.118.141.207]

Trace complete.

[Mary]

I can't download the Extras from the newsletter - it just sits there. No error message but when I do the tracertwww.photoshopelementsuser.com it runs the DOS text and disappears before I can copy it.

I am running Vista - cable - 2 GB RAM - lots of disk space on new computer - IE Version7.0.6000.16512.

I will try to go and run the downloads on my XP machine - same cable etc. Be right back ......

On XP with IE 7.0.5730.11 it downloads very fast.

Should we compare which versions of IE we are using to see if there is commonality with those that are having problems?

***** I just ran IE in Protected Mode:OFF and everything worked and it was much quicker for regular movement between pages.

REMEMBER: Computers were put on this earth to keep us humble!

[Inspeqtor]

Right now I am not having any connection problems. I tried the tracert command anyway to see what i would get. All I get are the same timeouts posted earlier. What am I doing wrong?

Gary, what does the doskey command do?

Here is a screenshot of what I just now got:

1379

EDIT: I am on highspeed cable internet

[Rusty]

You know what they say, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
I know for sure, I'm in waaaay over my head :)

I don't want to give this tracer thing more attention than it deserves, and getting occasionally blocked out on the Forum certainly isn't the end of my world.

It's an irritant, and a big irritant if I'm in the middle of just finishing a lengthy and maybe involved post to answer a Q. But not a tragedy

I'm now at the point of curiosity more than anything, attempting to understand what's happening.

Rusty

[Chuck S.]

Rusty, I wonder if you could prepare your response in a text editor, then paste it into the dialog box here? I'm going to try that....

Testing, testing, one two three four.

Just tried it, now I'll save and see how that looks.

EDIT: Yes, that did the trick. Of course, not too useful if you're embedding photos or using other advanced features....

p.s. I used Windows Notepad. When I did it in Word, it added some stuff about the font....

[Juergen D]

Hi Chuck,
I do that quite often, especially when describing some steps I might be taking in Elements. I have another text editor, NoteTab Light, which I use. I make the window fairly small, so I can see what I have in the workspace. Then I copy and paste into the PET reply box.

Juergen

[Rusty]

I'm starting to maybe understand a bit more about this internet thing that Al Gore invented. Trish made a post awhile back when she used a fishing net analogy and attempting to move from knot to knot. I'll ask if this is a proper analogy: Pachinko - drop the balls (my query) into a hopper and the balls, at random, find various paths to the bottom.

If this is what's happening, that may explain why Paul says, "we are perfect on this end", and I wonder why I'm having problems apparently only on this site. For whatever reason, my query ain't making it all the way to his perfect server.

Is this what's happening - or am I oversimplifying things :confused:

Rusty

[Byron Gale]

...Pachinko...Rusty,

I love that analogy!!

Byron

[TonyW]

Because I sometimes lose connection when replying and that is a frustration I have got into the habit at the end of a reply of highlight all the text (including any links or images) or doing a right click>Select All and a Ctrl-C. Then if it times out and lose the post all you have to do is Ctrl-V and you paste it back. It's quick, easy and saves a bunch of frustration.

Tony

PS I luckily did it with this post as it timed out on my DSL link to my ISP so never even got started on its way. Wish the kids would go back to school and stop hogging the Internet :mad:

[nkeevers]

Norma,

I have found you cannot copy/paste into the command screen, so you have to type it in. Because of this, I am going to have the command screen open and the line "tracert www.photoshopelementsuser.com" typed in everytime BEFORE I log into the forum, for those times I may need it. It takes long enough to type it in, it will be better to have it ready before you need to use it.


You're going to type it in every time you log on??? Gosh, you know how many times I log on to the site! I'd have to take a count...must be over 20 times a day...probably more! I'm home all day so I'm always checking e-mails and so forth.

[nkeevers]

Because I sometimes lose connection when replying and that is a frustration I have got into the habit at the end of a reply of highlight all the text (including any links or images) or doing a right click>Select All and a Ctrl-C. Then if it times out and lose the post all you have to do is Ctrl-V and you paste it back. It's quick, easy and saves a bunch of frustration.

Tony

PS I luckily did it with this post as it timed out on my DSL link to my ISP so never even got started on its way. Wish the kids would go back to school and stop hogging the Internet :mad:

Tony, I do the same thing you do! Cause I've lost many replies!

[GaryK]

Charles

I thought the doskey command allowed you to do the F3 (function key) copy thing amongst other line editing options.
After a bit more testing, it seems I was mistaken.
The F3 seemed to work anyway. I could be mixing a few things up, as I don't use the command line as often as I used to. :rolleyes:

[TonyW]

Tony, I do the same thing you do! Cause I've lost many replies!

Norma: how can that be - you're just one hop from the server :confused:

Tony

[nkeevers]

Wouldn't you think I'd have no problems! I'm only about 3/4 hr away!! I should have the fastest service around!:D:D

[Inspeqtor]

You're going to type it in every time you log on??? Gosh, you know how many times I log on to the site! I'd have to take a count...must be over 20 times a day...probably more! I'm home all day so I'm always checking e-mails and so forth.

Norma,

Actually no, I won't as I will not remember to do it! I forgot to do it the first thing tonite. I got into the forum ok, then trying to go to the next new thread, I timed out (AGAIN), so... I opened up the command line, typed in the command and all I got was time-out's AGAIN. I still have no idea why I am not getting the information other people are getting. If time outs is all I am going to get, I may quit trying all together.

1384

Does anyone have any idea why I am getting these timeouts?

Thank you :)

[Rusty]

Charles, that's what you get for living in a schizophrenic State.
You folks can't even decide what time it is, hence, time outs while you dither

Rusty :D

[Inspeqtor]

Charles, that's what you get for living in a schizophrenic State.
You folks can't even decide what time it is, hence, time outs while you dither

Rusty :D.

Oh Rusty! You got me there! That is so funny :) :D:eek:

[TonyW]

Rusty: This is an area where knowing a little is probably worse than knowing nothing and I know only a little but I'll take a guess anyway :D
Tracert works by sending 3 packets of info and the intermediate servers have to get it and send it back to you for you to see the times. It looks as though from your print out that they did get through to the end but you're timing out in between. I believe one reason could be that there's a firewall somewhere that's blocking all intermediate return packages. Don't know why but seems to me I read somewhere that some cable systems might do that. If anyone knows any better shoot me down and explain how it really works :D

Tony

[Juergen D]

I am not saying that I understand this all, but here some more info: :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracert

Juergen

[Rusty]

Wouldn't you know it - I just clicked reply and got "cannot display this page..." :D OK, "Refresh" fixed it.

Juergen, I sure don't understand it all but I believe this is explaining why Paul Wilder says, "everything is 100% here", and I still have problems. It looks like the choke points can be anywhere along the apparently random routes my "signal" may take to get to KW's website. And, I'm going to jump to the conclusion that any website can do nothing to influence which route "clients" may take to get there.

My second, "jump to conclusion" is that he can do nothing to solve the difficulties that some of us are apparently experiencing.

I still don't understand why it seems to happen to me at this website and not at others. Maybe it's just harder to get from Milwaukee to Tampa than to London (I read BBC every day and have never had a problem) :)

Al Gore should have done a better job when he invented the internet.

Rusty

[Chuck S.]

Al Gore should have done a better job when he invented the internet.

Rusty

Speaking of Big Al.....maybe we can blame this problem on global warming....:D

[Rusty]

Absolutely!
Tampa is obviously hotter than London.
It's an inconvenient truth but (in the words of Cory), there it is

Rusty

[Inspeqtor]

Al Gore should have done a better job when he invented the internet.


Ok.... did Al Gore REALLY invent the internet??????? :eek:

[Chuck S.]

Ok.... did Al Gore REALLY invent the internet??????? :eek:

Now, Charles......what do YOU think?? :rolleyes:

[Inspeqtor]

Now, Charles......what do YOU think?? :rolleyes:

Ok, so I am really naive sometimes.... but I guess what I did not understand is the connection between Al Gore and the internet. I really did not believe he did, but I have seen this mentioned more than one time in this forum. It just got me to wondering....

[TonyW]

Ok.... did Al Gore REALLY invent the internet??????? :eek:

No but he did play a large part in getting it off the ground - and got a Webby award for doing it:

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

It was George Bush who said he invented it (actually he said Al Gore lied about claiming to have inventing it) but who believes a politician ;)

Tony

[Wendy]

Here is some info on Sir Tim Berners-Lee :)

http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/ArticleID/8681/8681.html

and a big thank you to him :)

Wendy

[Chuck S.]

Wendy, thanks for setting the record straight. I just knew the Internet couldn't have been invented by a politician.....:D

[Byron Gale]

I just experienced about 4 minutes of "not found" responses from this forum:


Tracing route to photoshopelementsuser.com [66.118.141.207]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 1 ms 1 ms 2 ms 192.168.0.1
3 11 ms 9 ms 9 ms bras6-l0.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net [151.164.187.10]
4 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms dist1-vlan50.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net [68.120.211.66
]
5 12 ms 7 ms 10 ms bb2-g8-3-0.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net.211.120.68.in-ad
dr.arpa [68.120.211.244]
6 17 ms 21 ms 18 ms ex2-p3-0.eqlaca.sbcglobal.net [151.164.191.226]
7 14 ms 21 ms 13 ms asn3549-glbx.eqlaca.sbcglobal.net [151.164.248.1
06]
8 79 ms 77 ms 75 ms Lightspeed-IP-Inc-Triple-8.ge-3-0-0.ar2.TPA1.gbl
x.net [64.214.175.194]
9 74 ms 74 ms 75 ms GigE4.ds-b.03.tpa.sagonet.net [66.118.133.214]
10 71 ms 72 ms 72 ms www.photoshopelementsuser.com (http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com) [66.118.141.207]
Trace complete.

[Rusty]

Charles,

Al Gore spouted off in off the cuff remarks (2000 election campaign) about "inventing the internet".

From then on he couldn't escape derisory references to that assertion.

Most credit of all should probably go to the US Army. They didn't invent it, they didn't even make it work ... but they had the vision of "what if..." and funded a lot of early effort (that's how Al Gore got involved - one of many members of Congressional Committees overseeing DoD budgets). The Army was looking at "exchange of info and/or command & control implications".

Rusty

[Inspeqtor]

Tony and Rusty,

Thank you for setting me straight on Al Gore. My memory is not that good but now I do remember hearing the story 'back when' that Al made the comment about the interneet, and how it got blown out of control.
It is the same with me when someone tells a really good joke. I am lucky if I remember it a few hours later. :(
That is why I have so much trouble remembering how to use many of the funtions in Elements.

[Wendy]

Hi Chuck ..

One of the great things about Sir Tim Berners-Lee was his belief that the internet should be free and open ... so no copyrights were taken up :)

Thank goodness for that ...


Wendy

[cricket331]

I've been reading this thread and am wondering if any one is using a router? I have had problems off and on and my router needed a firmware upgrade and everthing has been working fine. Just a thought:). It took me a little bit of research and that was my problem.

[Byron Gale]

Just had about five minutes of "cannot find server"...

Tracing route to photoshopelementsuser.com [66.118.141.207]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 2 ms <1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.0.1
3 9 ms 8 ms 9 ms bras6-l0.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net [151.164.187.10]
4 8 ms 7 ms 7 ms dist1-vlan50.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net [68.120.211.66
]
5 8 ms 8 ms 7 ms bb2-g8-3-0.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net.211.120.68.in-ad
dr.arpa [68.120.211.244]
6 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms ex2-p3-0.eqlaca.sbcglobal.net [151.164.191.226]
7 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms asn3549-glbx.eqlaca.sbcglobal.net [151.164.248.1
06]
8 71 ms 72 ms 71 ms Lightspeed-IP-Inc-Triple-8.ge-3-0-0.ar2.TPA1.gbl
x.net [64.214.175.194]
9 271 ms 73 ms 72 ms GigE4.ds-b.03.tpa.sagonet.net [66.118.133.214]
10 91 ms 73 ms 71 ms www.photoshopelementsuser.com (http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com) [66.118.141.207]
Trace complete.

[Byron Gale]

Just experienced another "Cannot find server" episode. Lasted about 4 minutes.

Tracing route to photoshopelementsuser.com [66.118.141.207]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.0.1
3 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms bras6-l0.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net [151.164.187.10]
4 8 ms * 7 ms dist1-vlan50.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net [68.120.211.66
]
5 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms bb2-g8-3-0.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net.211.120.68.in-ad
dr.arpa [68.120.211.244]
6 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms ex2-p3-0.eqlaca.sbcglobal.net [151.164.191.226]
7 48 ms 44 ms 213 ms asn3549-glbx.eqlaca.sbcglobal.net [151.164.248.1
06]
8 79 ms 74 ms 74 ms Lightspeed-IP-Inc-Triple-8.ge-3-0-0.ar2.TPA1.gbl
x.net [64.214.175.194]
9 72 ms 72 ms 72 ms GigE3.ds-b.03.tpa.sagonet.net [66.118.132.110]
10 72 ms 71 ms 72 ms www.photoshopelementsuser.com (http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com) [66.118.141.207]
Trace complete.

[Inspeqtor]

Byron,

Did you send Paul a PM with this info?

[Rusty]

I had 2 hours of "cannot display...etc" last night. Nothing so far today.

I have stopped sending messages to Paul -- afraid of starting to sound like a broken record.

I admit, I don't understand this stuff at all. I have the impression from explanations in previous posts here that the problem is getting to the KW website. If that's a correct understanding, the problem is on the internet, not on the site after I can get there. There's nothing KW can do about that.

But what I don't understand is why I apparently have this problem only with attempting to connect to the KW website. Is there a black hole somewhere between Milwaukee and Tampa? What I should probably do is bookmark something like a Tampa newspaper. When I can't get here, I could immediately try to go to that website on the assumption that a Tampa newspaper will have a website located in Tampa. Hmmmmm.

I'm probably giving this more attention than it deserves. It's still frustrating.

Rusty

[Byron Gale]

Charles - no, I did not PM Paul... I had not picked up on the request to do that.

Rusty - To my understanding, it is like a shop within a mall. The shop has the lights on, all employees standing by, and goods on the shelf -- but the mall doors are chained shut.

The shop owner can't understand why his customers are calling and telling him that they can't get into his store... after all, his doors are wide open!!

No doubt, this analogy breaks down rapidly, but I think there is some truth in it.

Byron

[winclk]

i am also experiencing a slow time with this site. sometimes i have to exit this site when i click to go to the next page of a thread. the next page will not load.

i thought this was only me.

[Inspeqtor]

Charles - no, I did not PM Paul... I had not picked up on the request to do that.

Rusty - To my understanding, it is like a shop within a mall. The shop has the lights on, all employees standing by, and goods on the shelf -- but the mall doors are chained shut.

The shop owner can't understand why his customers are calling and telling him that they can't get into his store... after all, his doors are wide open!!

No doubt, this analogy breaks down rapidly, but I think there is some truth in it.

Byron

Byron,

Look at message 14 of this thread for Pauls instructions on sending the traceroute info.

I like your anology of the mall being open and closed at the same time ;)

[JulieM]

But what I don't understand is why I apparently have this problem only with attempting to connect to the KW website.

I'm with you on that, Rusty...

[pixlbandit]

I, also, couldn't get on for quite some time--finally gave up. Also, like Byron, did a route trace and came up with very similar results--that the times to make the net jumps seem to bottleneck at Lightspeed-IP-Inc.... Perhaps that is because we are both on the west coast and that is the primary route to the site. I doubt that there is anything that we, as individuals, can do about it. Since have different ISPs, that can't be it. Sigh. Does anyone know better?
Vicki

[genevh]

I sometimes have problems connecting to the site, but usually if I just refresh it will connect the second time. I've been following this thread a little, and if I may, offer my 2¢ on the issue.

I've run some tracert to here, and I generally have more lag time in my first hop out of my house than I see further out the closer I get to Tampa. I'm on RoadRunner here in NC, and mine ALWAYS goes through Dallas, TX before finally shooting over to Florida. Gotta be their main hub (sorta like the airlines) before I finally get out on the "real" internet. Oh well, nothing I can do about that.

However, the one thing that is in common to all the traces I've seen, mine included, is the last hop before the trace hits KW is Sagonet, which is KW's web hosting service and/or POP. And the last connection into Sagonet appears to be Gigabit Ethernet connections, of which they should have many. I did 3 traces and hit 3 different ports: gige1, Gige3, and Gige4. The longest times to respond came from the hop going into Sagonet, and then between Sagonet and KW. Most of the hops responded in less than 20ms, while the last two or three took well over 50ms to respond. Sagonet took 60ms or better. The only difference between my tracert and the others in the thread is that the last section before Sagonet in mine is XO Com, not Lightspeed. I see the same pattern there also. Everything to the last hop or so before Sagonet is less than 20ms, while everything beyond is as much as 3 times or more higher (slower).

And in all fairness, those response times are not excessive, either. The difference could possibly be when our traffic comes off the dedicated network of our particular service provider and gets out onto the major fiber backbone.

Now, KW buys a certain amount of bandwidth from Sagonet that would be dedicated to them. That would be based on their own studies of how much the site is used, etc. to determine the amount. Sagonet also, hopefully, based on the number of sites they host and the bandwidth demands of all those sites put together, also purchases an amount of bandwidth from wherever they connect to the internet.

Where is the bottleneck then? Is it the major fiber backbone? Or Sagonet? Paul has said in his posts that KW just bought plenty of bandwidth to keep them going for some time now. The next link in the chain, then is Sagonet. Do they have the bandwidth to handle the peak traffic times they experience? And can their servers handle it when they are in their peak traffic times? The ports coming into Sagonet are shared by all Sagonet's customers. Its highly unlikely that KW has a guaranteed straight shot out, so when Sagonet gets bogged down by heavy traffic, it will appear that KW is also bogged down. And it wouldn't be their fault at that time.

The problem is proving who is at fault. I do tech support for my company's equipment that sits in the major telecom provider networks. Too often, when there's a problem and our boxes aren't showing there is, they still blame us until we can absolutely prove that the problem isn't in our equipment. Too often we hear the line "It's your stuff, not ours", and as often as it might be our stuff, it tends to be theirs just as often. Again, the problem is in proving it. Not always an easy task, and I would not be surprised at all if Paul and his crew are hearing the same thiings.

Now for some fun. If you're interested in seeing how well the internet is performing, check out the Internet Traffic Report (http://www.internettrafficreport.com/). As of my writing this post, the current grade for the internet is 75 out of 100, on a scale of 0 (slowest) to 100 (fastest). The US itself is currently at 84, the highest of all the regions in the report. This is monitored in real time.

Will wonders never cease. Just as I was about to post this, I had trouble connecting to the site. :eek::eek::eek: Here is my tracert:

C:\>tracert www.photoshopelementsuser.com

Tracing route to photoshopelementsuser.com [66.118.141.207]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.15.1
2 5 ms 5 ms 7 ms 10.120.32.1
3 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms gig0-0-2.rlghnca-rtr1.nc.rr.com [24.25.0.201]
4 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms gig2-3-0.rlghncrdc-pop1.southeast.rr.com [24.93
64.164]
5 14 ms 11 ms 50 ms ge-0-3-0.chrlncsa-rtr6.southeast.rr.com [24.93.
4.173]
6 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms pop1-cha-P7-0.atdn.net [66.185.138.69]
7 16 ms 11 ms 10 ms bb1-cha-P3-0.atdn.net [66.185.138.64]
8 17 ms 16 ms 17 ms bb1-atm-P6-0.atdn.net [66.185.152.182]
9 18 ms 25 ms 16 ms pop1-atm-P1-0.atdn.net [66.185.147.193]
10 24 ms 18 ms 18 ms p14-0.ir1.atlanta6-ga.us.xo.net [67.111.23.5]
11 21 ms 20 ms 18 ms p5-1-0-2.rar1.atlanta-ga.us.xo.net [65.106.4.5]

12 41 ms 43 ms 43 ms p6-0-0.RAR2.Dallas-TX.us.xo.net [65.106.0.10]
13 43 ms 42 ms 41 ms 65.106.4.230.ptr.us.xo.net [65.106.4.230]
14 59 ms 59 ms 60 ms 207.88.185.18.ptr.us.xo.net [207.88.185.18]
15 61 ms 59 ms 60 ms GigE3.ds-b.03.tpa.sagonet.net [66.118.132.110]
16 65 ms 60 ms 71 ms www.photoshopelementsuser.com [66.118.141.207]

Trace complete.

Actually, my stuff comes off the Road Runner network in what looks like Charlotte, NC (chrlncsa), then gets handed off to the AOL Transit Data Network (http://www.atdn.net/) (atdn.net) for a few hops, then on to XO Com (http://www.xo.com/index.php) (xo.net) for a few more hops before hitting Sagonet (http://www.sagonet.com/)(sagonet.net). Every tracert I have run from my location follows that same basic path.

[Rusty]

Well, I started out my last post saying I didn't understand what was going on. I still don't pretend to be able to explain it to anybody, but thanks to you, Gene, I sure do understand a heck of a lot more than I did yesterday!

I just ran a "tracert" and, thanks to Gene, actually understand what it is telling me. My first 3 hops are less than 10ms each then I hit 32ms and finally leave RoadRunner for St. Louis. Two hops there at 31/34ms, then to Chicago for 3 hops all at 22/25ms and then Lightspeed where the time jumps to 78ms. That is followed by Sagonet at 79ms and from there to this site - that last hop was 80ms.

Gene, what is the "magic ms number" that makes it time out and give me "cannot display this page"? Is it one specific hop that does that or is the accumulation of all the times?

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - I sure have just a little :D

Rusty

[genevh]

Well, I just did something stupid. Typed up this answer, was previewing it, and somehow changed windows in Firefox while I was previewing and ended up shutting down that window before submitting. So here we go again......:eek:

I wish it were that simple, Rusty, but it isn't.

The reason being is that ping and tracert are low level tools that verify and measure basic network connectivity. Just because you can get a ping to respond, or tracert to tell you how long it takes between hops for a signal to get passed, neither will indicate the ability of the network itself to send data at the higher levels required to deliver web pages, etc.

In my world of work, I use these tool for two different things. Ping is used to see if a box that has "dropped off the grid" is still working at a basic level of functionality. Ping will send an "Are you there?" type signal to the intended target. If that target is reachable and functioning, it should respond with an "I am here" type signal. You will also get a readout of how long it took for the signal to out and come back. Most of the time these boxes are still processing traffic. The network center just can't monitor the thing.

I will use tracert if I am trying to log into a customer network, generally with a VPN, and even though I am running the procedure to connect correctly, just can't seem to reach my target. Running tracert will show where the signal is being dropped or just taking way too long to get through, and give us a point of reference to start working from to determine where the fault lies within the network that won't allow me to connect.

Now, being able to send and receive data (i.e. Web pages) occurs at a higher level of functionality within the network. Being able to ping or tracert to a server/site doesn't mean it can output on a higher level. And from what I can see in the tracerts that I have run, and what has been posted in this thread, basic network functionality is there. One of the reasons Paul has requested a tracert be run during the time we can't connect is to try and pinpoint where that connection may be failing. And to be honest, from what I have seen, the network isn't broke. It may be a bit slow at points, but its not broken. I ran 3 tracerts last night when I couldn't connect to here, and they all looked pretty similar to what I posted. I also tried accessing several web pages I normally go to during that time and was able to get to all of them normally.

Which brings me back to what I said in my previous post. The problem may lie in other levels of the network that tracert is not providing any data on. To fix this problem will probably require an analyzation of the network traffic itself, to see if it is getting corrupted or being dropped somewhere, or if a bottleneck exists. This can be expensive and take some time. And this problem being intermittent will only make the process take longer to pinpoint the real issue.

I realize this isn't the answer we're all looking for. And I'm more of a hardware guy than a network or traffic analyst, so I can't offer a whole lot more other than what I have already. If you really want to give yourself a headache, you can look at the OSI Model (http://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/OSI_Layers.asp) which will give you some of the basics on what makes networks tick. I don't pretend to understand all of it myself, just the parts I work on.

Hope this helps.......:)

[Rusty]

Yes, it does help, Gene,

Silly me was looking for an easy answer, a "hard & fast fact". And, I do understand why there's no such thing.

Thank you very much for taking the time to elaborate. I really do understand a lot better now.

Rusty

[genevh]

Believe me, we generally try to go for the obvious when it comes to troubleshooting an issue. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work out. Most of the time we can quickly resolve things in a few minutes to several hours. Sometimes it may take days. And there is one issue I remember that hung around for nearly a year before it got resolved. :eek:

But it did get resolved. :)

[Bayla]

Could someone please explain to me what are the significant figures on the traceroute? This evening I keep on getting 'Cannot display page' messages - they don't last long, maybe only a couple of minutes maximum, but only on this site & I've noticed that the ms number gets really high as much as 140. Is that significant? Here's the latest one I did:

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1hvViyVjmdAusVrtCCwqPGidpAIX0_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1hvViyVjmdAusVrtCCwqPGidpAIX0)

Bayla

[Inspeqtor]

Gene,

Can you explain to me why when I use the tracert command, this is all I ever get? Someone mentioned a router as a possible problem, and needing to update the router firmware, which I did but no change. I am using a Linksys WRT54G wireless router.

Thank you.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1OBf8OqtsJ4F537UM1cWqKqwDhE2_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1OBf8OqtsJ4F537UM1cWqKqwDhE2)

[Jancy]

Had problems staying on site today:Page could not be displayed:

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/13lh6H15oPLRcfP0d2elcTou5mKmd_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=13lh6H15oPLRcfP0d2elcTou5mKmd)

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1wXAZrwjWdJ0uE7pGlmfCOHOC1VQSB1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1wXAZrwjWdJ0uE7pGlmfCOHOC1VQSB1)

Jancy

[genevh]

Bayla:

Here is what the columns are in a tracert.

1 |------2------| |----------------3------------------------|
3 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms gig0-0-2.rlghnca-rtr1.nc.rr.com [24.25.0.201]

Column 1: The "hop" being measured. In this case, hop #3. The connection between each router is considered a hop.

Column 2: The time measured by the tracert between each hop. The tracert makes and displays 3 measurements, in milliseconds (ms). In this case each measurement was 7 ms (thousands of a second, .007 seconds)

Column 3: Router/equipment information, including IP address of that particular piece of equipment. Used by those to identify that particular box or point in the network. If I were troubleshooting a network problem I could give this information to the network engineers and they could pinpoint exactly where this box lives and could then log into it, or send someone to its location if necessary to work on it.

Charles:

Does every tracert you run give you that kind of return? If you haven't already rebooted your router you might give that a try. There is also a diagnostic tool inside the router that will run ping and traceroute. You will need to log into the router and go to the Administration -> Diagnostics tab to find it. Also, check your router's settings to make sure its not blocked for some reason. I wouldn't think it would be, but you never know. Can you run a ping test from your PC?

[JulieM]

Gene: So, what's an asterik indicate?

[genevh]

* = no response, or timed out.

[JulieM]

Gene: So, are asteriks necessarily a bad thing? I can get them when everything is running okay or I can get them when I'm getting a cannot find server message.

[Bayla]

Gene,

Thanks for the explanation. Does that mean then that hops where the numbers are high are indicative of a problem? I've just had yet another episode of 'Cannot display....' and the trace for the last five hops reads:

12. 165ms 26ms 25ms
13. 220ms 123ms 122ms
14. 142ms 143ms 146ms
15. 148ms 147ms 146ms
16. 142ms 145ms 143ms

Bayla

[genevh]

Here's a link to a short article on understanding tracert:

http://www.wurd.com/misc_tracert.php

This is provided by AT&T Worldnet for their members. I wish I would have come across this a bit sooner. Might have saved me some typing! :D

Two points from this article I will bring up since the questions have already been asked:

How long is an acceptable response time?
According to that article, anything under 500 ms is acceptable. I had seen another article that said 200 ms response times were not uncommon, but I haven't been able to find it again.

What do the *'s mean?
Could be as I have said, the server timed out, or did not respond. Due to security reasons, servers can be set not to respond. For example, I have my router set to not respond to any outside ping requests. This is not necessarily a bad thing as far as your running a tracert is concerned. But, if you run a tracert and you get no response from any hop beyond a certain point including your target, you could have a problem.

Now, in light of that, Charles had posted a tracert in post #116 in this thread that showed all asterisks except he did get a response from KW. This is odd in that in all other tracerts, Sagonet has responded. But - based on the info in the article I have linked, this could possibly be considered a successful tracert as it did get through to the intended target.

However, in all tracerts that have been supplied, KW has always responded and well within either the 500 ms or 200 ms guidelines that I have found. Which goes back to a point that I made in an earlier post. I don't think this is so much a network issue, but a capacity issue, and it doesn't mean that it's KW Media's fault, either.

Hope this helps. :)

[Inspeqtor]

Gene,

Yes, I get the same readings every time I do a traceroute.

At your suggestion I rebooted my router. I turned off my computer, unplugged my modem and my router. I waited about 30 seconds, then I plugged my modem back in, waited for all the lights to turn on, then I plugged in my router and re-started my computer.

I then again did the tracert thru the cmd function and again I got the same results. The I logged into my router, and found the ping and trace route within my router and I had success there, although I still had a Request Timed Out in the beginning.

1440

1441

Now, how do I check my router to see if it is blocked?

How do I run a ping test from my PC?

Thank you :)