PSE5 and ICC profiles

[beesong]

I am going off the deep end! I've scoured these posts but have become increasingly confused. Sorry to be such a color-management newbie.....

Here's the issue:
I'm creating a photo book on Blurb.com and definitely want the color to be accurate. They print on an HP5000 semi-matte, and I've downloaded the ICC profile for that and installed it via MS Color Settings (which I learned about on this site). So far so good. However, I cannot find that ICC anywhere in PSE5 in order to select it for my photos.

Expertise would be deeply appreciated!

[Daviskw]

Hi there

Have you looked in your print dialog box. I don't have PE5 so I am not sure how it is set up. You should have somthing like "Color handling" which should be set to Elements handles colors. Then a Printer Profile box ..or something like it will be active where you can select your profile.

Butch

[jlwilm]

Hi beesong, and welcome to the forum. :)

Elements cannot embed the ICC profile but there ia a utility from Dry Creek Photo (http://www.drycreekphoto.com/tools/profile_converter/) that claims to be able to solve this.

Don't know what you are trying to do, but if you are concerned about color fidelity, try one or two and see if you can get sample prints from the web site you are dealing with.

[beesong]

Thank you both for your help. The printer dialog variables don't show any opportunity to switch. I'll try the drycreekphoto suggestion. Let's hope....

[TonyW]

I'm not really sure that you really want to be embedding profiles unless you really know what you are doing and have been in communication with blurb.com about it. I'm not even sure after a brief look at their web-site that they wouldn't just strip any embedded profiles. It certainly wouldn't guarantee that what you get is what you see on your screen. Most important is that you have a calibrated display - once you have that you have three choices in Elements - process with no color management or use sRGB or AdobeRGB. The ICC printer/paper profile only comes into action at the printer end of things.

My recommendation would be to talk to blurb and see what they recommend. My best guess would be process in sRGB with a calibrated monitor but that's just a guess.

Tony

[beesong]

Thank you, Tony. I obtained the info and link on their ICC profile directly from Blurb. However, just as you did, I wondered if it wouldn't just get stripped out when they converted to sRGB anyway. Yes, my monitor is calibrated. (Huey Pro) Maybe I should just let it go at that? PSE5 uses sRGB anyway. I guess I'll know for sure when my first test book arrives in a week or so. It seems that people are either really thrilled or really disappointed, and I suspect that we folks who would care about color management (even at the newbie stage) would fall into the latter category.

[TonyW]

Beesong: If it's any consolation I found that ICC profile and used CS2 to "proof" an image using the HP5000 profile and the standard sRGB. I can't see any difference. Can you?

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/16ZhpfpLMqDxhDAFVJTjDIkwhQ5EKS1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=16ZhpfpLMqDxhDAFVJTjDIkwhQ5EKS1)

Tony

[jlwilm]

Tony, beesong

I don't see any difference in the posted image either!

I went and did a little sniffing around the Blurb.com site and found the following stuff

Blurb.com (http://forums.blurb.com/forums/1/topics/51)

So, because we cannot support a 1:1 relationship between users and a specific press at this point we don’t formally offer a color managed workflow. That said, many of our advanced users have created their own “Blurb Profile” by using known images from their collection to create a reasonably repeatable expectation of color reproduction. July 26, 2007

I found at least one other reference saying that the software(freeware??) that they are talking about may not support color managament.

Based on this I can't figure out why I would embed the profile either.

BUT . . .

I am searching fort the authorative source that explains this whole thing. Obviously, you can embed profiles and some commercial printers use/support/recommend that, and the Dry Creek software and Photosjop CS2/CS3 support softproofing, etc.

So, simple question, complex answer (I expect)

Why be able to embed profiles?

[TonyW]

John - the logic behind doing it for some offsite printing (don't know how blurb works) is that it supposedly puts you in control of the output. And embed profile is rather misused I think. The common case would be where you embed the profile and convert the color numbers to that profile (and you don't actually send the profile with the image) - you then tell the printer operator not to make any color adjustments just send the raw color numbers to the printer. So in principle you are in control - but of course that assumes that the profile truly reflects the printer/paper you're sending it to (and assumes the printer operator does what you ask). I'm not convinced that I could trust my local chain store to do that even though I have what is claimed to be their profile. That would seem to be the common case - the other one would be you embed the profile and don't convert the color numbers and that would assume the other end uses that profile to make their own conversion and I don't know when this might be the case.

In either case unless you really know what your doing and trust the other end to get things right then to me it doesn't make a lot of sense although I haven't really had much experience with doing it so maybe I'm missing something. Hopefully one of the printing/profiling experts will come along and explain it better :)

Tony

[beesong]

Tony, that sure is admirable of you to do your test with the Indigo profile -- thank you! I agree with you and John that there is no difference, and that is terrific news to me. I will proceed without getting myself messed up with that process. Fascinating stuff -- I wonder why they even suggest it to people?

[Ric Cisson]

In regards to Blurb and the Indigo HP5000, as long as you start with a calibrated monitor, work within sRGB and submit within sRGB, you can expect very good reproduction results. Blurb is "young" in the industry, and is really going all out in customer service to ensure "we", the customer, are well taken care of and that our product meets our satisfaction. We all make mistakes, I even submitted a couple of page files amongst many, that were in RGB, my mistake, they corrected it and I appreciated their professionalism.

I have tried several of the "online publishers" and Blurb in my book, leads them all in Customer Service and is in my top three overall. I say this with all due respect to them as they are relative newbies on the scene and I respect and appreciate the fact they are learning from the mistakes of other online providers and in that respect growing with respect toward how challenging this industry can be, particularly as it relates to customer satisfaction. I continue to applaud their efforts, others could learn a few things from them.;)