Camera Advice Please

[Cmcburnett]

Here is my question: I want a new camera and considering one of the following:
Canon Digital Rebel Xti which sells for $800 and comes w/a EF-S 18-55mm lens;
Sony Alpha DSLR-100 which sells for $984 and comes w/a 18-200 lens; or
Nikon D80, which sells for $1,300 and comes w/an 18-35mm lens;

If you are familiar with any of these cameras any comments or suggestions you have will be appreciated. I will probably make my decision on your response. I have searched the cameras and have stats printed on all but can’t make up my mind.

[chas3stix]

Charlotte,
If you already own interchangeable lenses from either Canon or Nikon,I'd stick with what you already have. All three choices are good choices. Nikon and Canon have extensive inventories of interchangeable lenses. A good rule of thumb is to buy the best you can afford. Good luck choosing.
Chas

[Cmcburnett]

Thanks Chas for your reply. Everything I had for cameras was stolen except for one old camera case. So, I'm starting from nothing:(. I hope whoever got my camera and assessories are putting them to good use.

While looking at the Sony SLR, its cheaper, but the lenses are more expesnive so I think in the long run it may be more expensive but other than that I can't see much difference in the cameras. I like the in camera stability Sony has, do you know anything about that? I know the other cameras don't have that, it comes in a separate lens. A lot of folks like the D80, but I'm wondering if that will be over my head on a learning curve :confused:

[RRSignal1]

Charlotte,

Hi, sent you a PM.

Jack

[jo]

I love my Rebel XT, but buying the camera is only the first $$$ outgo. You'll be wanting lenses next. So don't think of it in terms of the initial purchase!


Go to a camera store and hold them in your hands and play with them a little. Then buy the one that whispers in your ear "love me as much as I love you".

[lowbone]

Let me start with image stabilization. When you have sensor stabilization as the Sony and Pentax camera use you are up against a potential problem depending on what length mm lens you use. This sytem works well as long as the lenses you use are not longer then 100-135mm. The longer the lens, the more movement of the sensor to compensate for camera shake. If you ever developed an interest in nature photography or any type of photography that required a lens of say 300-500mm your sensor would have to move about five mm in each direction to compensate and it cannot do this without moving out of the field of view in your photo. Lens image stabilization on the other hand has a separate group of elements built right into the lens designed specifically for that individual lens. This is a superior system particularly with telephoto lenses and these are the lenses where image stabilization is most needed. Both Nikon and Canon have started marketing IS lenses that are moderate in price.
As far as your camera choices, the initial Sony reviews showed allot of digital noise at high ISO. Much more then other cameras in its class. I would have to say that the D80 is a better camera then both the Canon digital rebel and the Sony Alpha. It should be, it costs allot more. One camera that is absent from your list is the Canon 30D which I think is equal to the D80 in every respect. Since you seem interested in cameras that come as a kit, Canon is offering the 30D with a 28-135 image stabilized lens. I think what you have to do at this point is decide what features you need and then look at how easy they are to access. Some cameras have similar features but some of the features are buried in the menu and are hard to get at. Last but not least camera sizes make a difference. I have large hands and find the digital rebel too small for me, even with the battery grip attached. Good luck with your choice.

[GeoR]

Hi Charlotte: I am sure you will get a lot of great advice concerning these 3 cameras. Two months ago I purchased my first DSLR camera after listening to forum members debate the pros & cons of the Canon Rebel versus Nikon D80. The best advice was go to a camera store that handles all brands & see which camera feels right in your hand as they are both good cameras. I purchased the Nikon D40X as it felt better to me. It doesn't"t have all the bells & whistles of the D80 but being its my first DSLR camera I haven't missed anything. I am constantly amazed at the quality of the pictures as I learn the camera settings. Being a first time DSLR owner I find it a steep yet satisfying learning curve. I compare the Nikon D40X to the Canon Rebel XTI. Have no idea which one is the better camera. GeoR

[Cmcburnett]

Lowbone, I appreciate all your comments, particularly regarding the image stabilization, I didn't know that. I checked the price for the Cannon EOS and its more expensive than the D80. Another one of your comments that I found to be of great interest was "features are buried in the menu and are hard to get at", that is one thing I'm worried about. I'm afraid the D80 is more than I have time to figure out. Thanks again for your response it was most helpful and appreciated.

[Cmcburnett]

Geor, I just looked at your gallery and you have some spectacular pic's in there. I suppose you used your Nikon D40X to take the pictures? Thank you for your response. Now I need to make a choice.:rolleyes: I think the Canon Rebel XTi is similar to the Nikon D40X, I will have to compare them, another one for my folder.

[Cmcburnett]

Jo, thank you for your reply. I looked at your gallery and it is quite impressive. I've looked at several galleries of folks that have responded to this thread and all of them are great. So, I think a lot of photography results is the person behind the camera. The Rebel XT is on my list of hopefuls. Thanks again, your response is greatly appreciated.

[Chuck S.]

One camera that is absent from your list is the Canon 30D which I think is equal to the D80 in every respect. Since you seem interested in cameras that come as a kit, Canon is offering the 30D with a 28-135 image stabilized lens.

I have the Canon 30D and the 28-135 IS lens. The 30D was originally priced at $1499 without lens, but as it reaches the end of its life cycle and experiences competition from Nikon and others, it's down to about $1025 US (B&H Photo). That's still well above the D80 in price ($879). The Canon 40D is expected soon, but it's likely to be another one of those cameras that goes for more megapixels at the potential sacrifice of image quality. Nevertheless, when the 40D arrives, the 30D may fall in price further. In the meantime, the D80, feature-for-feature, likely is the better buy.

[tomlaronge]

My wife just went through this exact process without my interference. She quickly eliminated the Sony in favor of either the Canon xti or the Nikon D80. In very short order, she bought the D80. She then opted between the 18-200mm VR and the 18-135mm D80 kit lens. She put both lenses through very rigorous teststs for a couple of weeks. In fact, she actually shot both lenses at a series of similar focal lengths and different apertures and compared the matrix of results. The bottom line is that she bought the 18-135mm lens and the 70-300mm VR lens. She is getting excellent results and I have printed many of her images enlarged and cropped to 13' X 19". She is tickled pink and I am happy that she is happy, but I am very favorably impressed with her photographs. In retrospect, my wife tells me that her decision was a no brainer.

[tomlaronge]

Chuck, I just read your post after posting above. I agree with your suggestion about the Canon 30 D and also about your comment about more megapixels and less image quality. The Canon point-and-shoot line is a testimony to this result as are other manufacturers.

I think that if one considers the Canon 30D for the reasons you have suggested, one ought also to look at the Nikon D-200. This is seeing massive price reductions lately and it is a very fine piece of professional quality equipment. The D-200 is a much heavier built camera than either the Canon xti of the Nikon D 80, I do not have hands on experience with the Canon 30 D, but I am also told by many that this is a great camera.

Tom

[SenorSlick]

I have to echo much of what has been said here already. Test Drive is the best way to choose. First get the feel and weight of each basic model in your hand Then decide. Harvey

[NickLewis]

Hi Charlotte,

I know I'm like a cracked record on this one (if you remember records that is.... :) )

Do not choose a camera at this level on price and specifications alone. That'd be a big mistake. None of these cameras will take intrinsically bad images.

If you possibly can, get to a store and handle them. Choose the one you're happiest holding and using. Ergonomics and your general level of satisfaction will have much more effect on your overall output than the last decimal places in noise performance, that extra f-stop, or a extra megapixel or two. :(

You won't take good pictures if you don't like the machine you're using. Cameras are tools, not an end in themselves.

That's my view, for what it's worth,

Nick

[Chuck S.]

Tom, I agree - the D200 and the 30D are heavyweights, in more than one sense of the word. The Canon 30D outweighs the Digital Rebel XTi, 784 grams to 556 grams. Similarly, the Nikon D200 weighs in at a whopping 920 grams vs. the D80 at 668 grams. Compared to my point-and-shoot Canon G7 (380 grams, heavy for a P&S), the DSLR's are a load. No wonder folks are looking for the most comfortable neck straps....

But.....they do render excellent photos!

[Cmcburnett]

Tom, not that any of the cameras are easy, but do you think someone w/out a lot of time would be able to figure out the D80? I do a lot of hiking and take lots of nature shots, spur of the moment shooting, so do you think that would be a good camera for those of kinds of shots?

My problem is I have a son that is medically disabled and no insurance and totally dependent on me for Dr's, hospitals, care and taxi driver. Working full time and taking care of him I don't have a lot of money or time but photography is something I enjoy and I'm going to buy a new camera as therapy for me, not to be selfish, so I want something that's doesn't take a lot of patience because that is something I'm running short on right now.

Thank all you guys for your help, it means a lot to me.;)

[tomlaronge]

Charlotte

FWIMBW, the D80 has the simplest and most logical menu of any camera I have ener used and I am a devout film camera photographer. There is a single setting in the D80 memory that can be altered to open every command or only a select number of commands. Also, the D8o can be operated with mechanical switches for almost all necessary commands, thus making it not necessary to use the menu if this is what you prefer.

The real difference among the cameras you are considering is you and what you prefer and what is comfort to you. It is strictly what that is in your hands feels good that makes the difference.

Tom

[Wendy]

Hi ...

When I bought my camera I narrowed the list to three cameras and then went into a shop to look at them ...

... I did buy a camera and I went for the one that felt comfortable in my hand ... it wasn't on my list :D:D

Wendy
PS ... I bought the Canon 300D (Rebel) and I still love it :)

[Cmcburnett]

Tom, well said and thank you.

[epaul6]

The best camera is the one that you will use. A good DSLR requires a diaper bag to carry all the extra stuff you need. I have a D70 which is the predecessor to the D80 and primarily keep the 18-200 lens on it. I do use a Tokina 100mm Macro as a portrait lens and I do like it also.

Just remember that a DSLR is heavy compared with a P&S and good glass by itself costs more than an advanced P&S ($800 for the zoom lens and had to wait 3 months due to backorder).

That said I love the camera-but I think for most shots a good P&S would have work just as well.

[RobertSchuldenfrei]

Hi Charlotte & NG,

I was sad to hear about the grief in your life, but pleased to hear how you are dealing with it. Go for it girl! I love the images in your gallery. If the new camera will add to that body of great work, then it will be worth it. I have 4 Nikon cameras that I have used over the years, F, F2, N8008s, and D70s. For me, after the first one, the decision was simple: I wanted to continue to use the lens set, so I kept buying Nikons.

As Nick pointed out, all of the cameras will take excellent pictures in your hands. Photography, after all is 85% seeing! I have always believed in small business, perhaps because I owned one. I had a long standing relationship with The Camera Company of Norwood, MA when I lived up north. They would let me demo any camera I was planning to buy. I spent a lot of US dollars in that place :). But for the advice and after purchase servicing I felt it was worth it. Try to demo the cameras you are planning to buy first. Nick said it all, you will be handling this machine for a long time so it is worth the effort to take your time and buy the one that is best for you.

Cheers,

Bob

[Cmcburnett]

Bob thank you. What a nice thing to say. I truly appreciate your advice.

[Barb O]

I have 4 Nikon cameras that I have used over the years, F, F2, N8008s, and D70s. For me, after the first one, the decision was simple: I wanted to continue to use the lens set, so I kept buying Nikons.

Cheers,

Bob

Bob, do you know if it is possible to use any of the lenses from the Nikon F2S or FE on Nikon's digital SLRs? If yes, that may offer a potential for my husband to use some of his lenses. That would be great news.

Charlotte, apologies for my short intrusion on to your thread.

Barb O

[Chuck S.]

Charlotte, some really good advice in this thread. I totally agree with all who have said that it's important to experience how the camera feels in your hands and how intuitive the controls are before you buy. The simpler the better!

[tomlaronge]

Charlotte,
Let me share our experiences with you. My wife, Judy, and I have spent much of the last 25 years travelling and taking extensive wildlife photographs. I did professional scientific film photography and photomicrography for a career. We used Nikon film cameras for the most part. Between about ten years ago and five years ago the 35mm quality camera industry underwent a major market shift when Canon started to give pros free equipment and Nikon declined to do this and Canon folks became highly consumer friendly and Nikon folks increased their difficulty in working with consumers. Then Canon brought out their IS lens stabilization ahead of Nikon and the 35mm camera market scale tipped from the Nikon side to the Canon side. Both made excellent cameras and lenses, but frankly Canon was people-oriented.

In the digital market, it is a whole new ballgame and the playing field is both more competitive and levelized in quality and quantity. As Chuck correctly implied earlier, there is a whole lot more quantity out there than there is quality and the market is not necessarily getting better right now.

With that said, I lost my right eye due to a medical accident and gave up photography and changed my career drastically. As digital photography progressed, I still maintained incredibly wonderful and knowledgeable photographic friends who talked me into buying my wife a point-and-shoot Nikon 5000. My wife absolutely agonized with this. The camera took incredibly great images, even by today's standards. The viewfinder, to be polite, was absolutely terrible. The menu was impossible. The controls were tiny and hard to use. However, the camera was a fantastic image gatherer. My wife is not a computer person and she shuns these devices. She forced herself with great reluctance to use the camera and she did get good photos. I could not use the camera. We sold the camera and a whole bunch of accessories and truly tried to study the camera market ourselves. I bought my wife a Canon S-70. This camera was great and perfect for personal photos as it took wide-angle family pictures with its 28mm equivalent 3+ to 1 zoom. The clam shell was metal and it took RAW images. The menu ease of use was mediocre at best. I began to use this camera and I too liked it. I greatly missed photography and wanted to try again, albeit with one eye and with the lesser of the original two. My wife bought me a Nikon D70 with the 24-120mm VR lens. I had fits with this camera. I did not like the menu, nor did I like the camera and lens combination as I was trying to make great photos of my favorits low contrast and low color difference pooch. My photos were largely out-of-focus due to the slow or inaccurate or both autofocus response and my inability to help this situation manually. I stopped taking photos again as it was not pleasurable using less than satisfying equipment. Please note that many folks participating on this forum do use this equipment and they disagree with the opinions that I have expressed. Frankly, the choice is all about personal preference.

A friend of ours bought the Canon S2IS and swore by this for taking snapshots of friends, family and travels. I bought my wife a Canon S3IS as this was the current version. We kept the camera for about a month and sold this. The camera IMHO did not generate the quality of images that made either of us happy and the pixelated, noisy images that resulted at ISO=200 or above made the colors of an illuminated Chistmas tree look dull! This camera went bye-bye rapidly. In fairness, it is possible that we had a mad specimen, but I tend to doubt this from what I have come to learn.

Left with a wonderful, discontinued Canon S-70 that had been sent in for repair of the zoom rocker switch, we looked at SLRs again very carefully. To end this epistle, I bought a Nikon D80 because I liked the feel of this camera and dollar-for-dollar, it was expensive, but what I considered to be the best buy on the market. No, I did not buy the kit so I purchased my lens separately. Charlotte, I picked up this camera without reading the book, only the flip-sheet quick instructions and I began to take photographs, not snapshots. I found the placement of buttons/switches to be excellent and the necessary menu to be intuitive. Now that I have had the camera for about 10 months, I have thoroughly digested at least 80% of the formal manual and I still hold the same opinion. As stated above, my wife, who is nowheres nearly as interested in detail as I am, did her own month long investigation of cameras, not using mine once and she purchased the D80. She usually leaves her camera set up to photograph flowers, birds and water creatures in our backyare. Last week she caught a bullfrog fully stretched out on a single lily pad that is printed at 13" X 19" and the image is nearly noiseless and full frame. Frankly, her picture, printed on Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl is exhibition quality. Judy loves the camera and has no trouble with the menu. I love my camera and I use much more of the menu subtleties than does my wife. I do not have difficulties with this. By the way, we both shoot in multiple modes and not just in automatic so we use the menu and I particularly rely on the histograms for exposure control.

So, Charlotte, I do not think you will have any trouble with the menu. I do think that an average person owes it to themself and to their camera gear to spend perhaps two to five hours learning to use this. I do believe that the average person can use enough of this gear with this minimum effort to generate wonderful photographic results under a fairly wide range of shooting conditions. I have done this, My wife has done this. A friend of ours in Modesto, CA has done this. A freshman in college who works part-time in my office has done this and she did not bother to read the book and never used a camera other than that in her cell phone before......oh yes, "AUTOMATIC" is her speed, but the results are still great as the kit lens does have ED glass.

We were very fortunate because we do have access to a great professional photography dealer locally and know a large number of photographic professionals who advised us and who helped us. These folks definitely prejudiced us to stay between Canon and Nikon in SLRs. Beyond this, we were advised to pick what felt the best to us and what seemed to work the best for us.

Yes, Charlotte, you too can savor the pleasure and the results without much difficulty or sacrifice of time with your son. If you have any other questions, feel free to send me a PM and I will even make arrangements for you to talk with either or both my wife and I, if you feel this could be of help to you. I really think the help you need, as said by others, is just hands on!

Happy selection and please let us know the results,
Tom

[jmikelewis]

Charlotte, Check out BobAtkins.com for good reviews of cameras and equipt.

Personally I bought the Canon 30D a few months ago as my first DSLR. I got a couple of lenses with it but do not yet have an image stabization lens. I see Costco has these lenses and also the Canon and Nikon cameras at reasonable prices. I love the camera but there is a steep learning curve but certainly no more than PSE. I think the advice about getting the camera in hand and feeling it is good. Good luck with your choice.

[Cmcburnett]

Tom, when I first started reading your last post I said oh no, bad reviews on Nikon, then toward the end of your post I was totally captivated. Thanks so much for sharing your camera knowledge with me/the forum. For you to take time to share your experience with cameras means a l lot, thank you. I've about made my mind up on the D80 but I will look at the camera first and hold it to get the feel of the camera before I buy anything. I have been looking at cameras since before Christmas and couldn't bring self to spend the money out of guilt, but what the heck, we only live once. Thanks again.

[Cmcburnett]

Charlotte, some really good advice in this thread. I totally agree with all who have said that it's important to experience how the camera feels in your hands and how intuitive the controls are before you buy. The simpler the better!

Chuck, thank you for your reply. I've seen several of your posts on the forum over the last few months and I always look forward to seeing your camera advice. I know there have been several threads regarding cameras and I was reluctant to start another thread but I was really uneasy about which camera to choose, I like the all.:rolleyes:

[Cmcburnett]

Charlotte, apologies for my short intrusion on to your thread. Barb O

Barb, not an intrusion at all. Good luck w/the info on the lens.

[RobertSchuldenfrei]

Hi Everyone,

Charlotte asked: "Bob, do you know if it is possible to use any of the lenses from the Nikon F2S or FE on Nikon's digital SLRs? If yes, that may offer a potential for my husband to use some of his lenses. That would be great news." The answer would be yes, but.

The mount would accept the lens so you could attach them. The F2 used the older "rabbit ears" method of connecting the diaphragm (that controls f-stop) in the lens to the light meter that sat atop the camera. This means that you can use the lens, but everything is manual. If you have some very high quality "old glass" it is worth it. Most people would not put up with this horse 'n buggy approach.

My D70s uses a macro lens from my N8008s very successfully. So much so that I have not bought a macro lens for this digital camera. Tom's experience with a particular lens sounds troublesome, but the D70s "kit" lens, Nikkor AF-S 18-70 mm G ED works well for me. When I use my old F and F2, I use the lens set that came with the F, and film of course. They both still work fine and I have an old hand held light meter as the F2's meter has died and I removed the Photomic T meter from the F. This was a later addition to the F, so my F is back to its 1959 pristine state.

By the way (BTW), I too use Illford paper in my Canon S9000 printer with great results. I have been using Illford paper since my old darkroom days back in the late 1950s.

Cheers,

Bob

[tomlaronge]

Charlotte,
I suspect, if you are like most of us, the pleasure you derive once you purchase the camera will far outweigh the expense, to say nothing of the hours of enjoyment of seeing your images anywhere and everywhere, plus the fun and challenges of editing printing, etc., etc., etc.
One last consideration for you. Once you select your camera, it is better to take your time accessorizing this. If you decide on the D80, you will not want to purchase much. I recommend one extra battery for backup and two SD card, perhaps 1 gb each if you plan to shoot fine and large JPEGs and 2 gb each if you plan to shoot RAW. Beyond this, one lens, one sunshade and one gadget bag or pack of some sort will launch you on your journey of fun. One fantastically pleasant feature to the D80, again if this is your choice, is the fact that this camera is very efficient in using battery power and the batteries recharge relatively rapidly. You can realize several hundred photos im JPEG mode from one charged battery. Obviously, the lens selection is highly personal as is the camera body, However, some dealers will let you try one or more lenses and lenses can be reasonably resold if they are kept in good condition or rented with the rental price applied to the future purchase price.

Tom

[Cmcburnett]

Tom, thanks again. One thing I always make sure of even w/my point and shoot is backup battery and lots of memory for photo shooting. That is one of the things I love about digital, you can shoot hundreds of frames and then delete all of the unwanted ones. I will post back later in the week and let you guys know what I end up with.

Thanks to everyone for all your help. You guys are the greatest.

[PeterS]

Hi Charlotte,

I'm not sure why everyone seem to discard the Sony Alpha so quick.

After a lot of reading it was my choice of camera. It seems comparable to the D80 spec wise but, at least over here, is ~$300 cheaper.

It's image stabilisation seem to work fine for me even at 300mm handheld.
As for the lenses you don't have to buy the expensive Sony branded lenses there are fine third party lenses from Sigma, Tamron and others.
On top of that you can use all the old Minolta AF lenses, there are a lot of them on ebay.

You can see pictures taken with it here:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/sony_alpha

Or check out my pictures on flickr all of them shot with my alpha, I'm still a beginner so mine are perhaps not the best:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beldus/

Good luck,
/PeterS

[Wendy]

Hi Peter ...

... and welcome to the forum :)

Wendy

[PeterS]

Hi Wendy,

Thank you, I have been lurking here since I decided to use elements for my editing and post processing needs.
Reading a bit here and there when time have permitted.

Regards,
/PeterS

[Cmcburnett]

Peter your pictures are beautiful. I have always bought Sony and my sister has always bought Canon. I'm just wanting a DSLR that doesn't have a lot of noise when shooting at a distance. My point and shoot camera has great clarity close up but when I start using the zoom it gets grainy and I end up having to edit just about every picture. I think everyone has a certain camera they like and looks like the Sony is working for you just fine. Thank you for taking your time to point out your gallery and your suggestions. Hope to see more of you around the forum, really nice helpful folks here.

[RobertSchuldenfrei]

Hi Peter and NG,

Peter, I have been taking pictures for the better part of my 64 years. I can say I am still a beginner, it keeps me young. For years I have poured over National Geographic, Popular Photography, etc. trying to capture that elusive great shot. It is the journey, not the destination! I love photography and trying to learn new things. I have been teaching a course in Digital Photography and while it is called "digital" it really is all about taking great pictures. Most of what I teach could have been taught 100 years ago. Technology has its place, but is not center stage in the art form. Photography is 85% seeing, and Peter, you have a great eye.

Cheers,

Bob

[lowbone]

O.K. Now that everyone is done giving a plug for their favorite camera you are probably more confused then ever so here is what I think you should do. Digital models are replaced every year and a half or so and cameras like the Canon 30D and Nikon D80 are well into their life cycle. Digital technology has seemed to slow down and new models are not full of big changes as they were a few years ago. I would try reading up on what various digital cameras do. It is not that important to be current with your camera but is is important to have a camera that does what you want it to do in the future. Someone stated earlier that an extra f stop is really unimportant. well it is if you are shooting in low light and a camera that produces images in low light without allot of noise would also be important. Another writer mentioned that he really likes his Nikon D40 and while it is capable of excellent images, it can only be used with special Nikon lenses offering you a very limited selection.
Do you know what you will be doing in the future? If you will be shooting nature you will want to make sure that your camera provides good IS at very long focal lengths. What will you be taking pictures of? Make sure you know this before you buy. A DSLR depreciates at warp speed. The one thing that you don't want to do is buy a camera and find out that it really won't do what you want it do do. To get more information and see some incredible photography I would recommend www.fredmiranda.com You will find a wealth of knowledge here.

[PeterS]

Thank you for the kind words, both Bob and Charlotte.

Charlotte, if your sister already have a Canon DSLR wouldn't it be best to choose a Canon for yourself? That way you could share lenses with her.
And if you already have an older AF film SLR most likely the lenses for that one can be used on a newer system and should tilt your favor in that direction.

Bob, I completely agree that the largest part of a good image is the ability to see it. But I do think that technology play a significant part to since that is what allows us the freedom to experiment more freely.
I remember when I used a film SLR (some 15-20 years ago) I always considered the film expense, today I just shoot and if the picture is to bad I just throw it away.

lowbone, A really nice site with some interesting articles. But since it seemed to be very 'Canikon' centric I will have to counter with http://www.dyxum.com which is a great site for Sony/Minolta information.;)

/PeterS

[RobertSchuldenfrei]

Hi Peter,

I could not agree with you more. I would not be in this forum if I did not think technology is a boon to photography. To some degree we all are technology freaks here. I just want to remind the members of our community that photography really is 85% seeing. That is not to say that the last 15% is unimportant.

Cheers,

Bob, who is out burning "film," or maybe pixels

[sandie]

ok it is really a matter of taste because the Canon and Nikon are both great. The Canon is more used by people so going out with others you have more of a chance of borrowing a lens or asking a question about the camera. The thing about DSLRs is that you have to change lenses , costly lenses at that.
So when you buy, check out the lenses and how much they cost and do get the better lenses if at all possible and with the > 100 mm lenses get the IS (canon) or VR (nikon) lenses so you have image stabilization in the lenses. Canon had L lenses but they are expensive but they do show a difference in clearness of the pictures.
I use to own a Nikon film camera but once I was told that the lenses I had for it were not auto focus lenses so could not really be utilized with the DSLR so I went with the Canon, many more in our Camera Society have Canon then Nikon I bought the Canon and LOVE it. DSLRs are alot of camera and lots of things you will probably never use but still great.
Once you get to the Nikon D200 I think the Canons definitely have it over the Nikons. The Nikon D200 is a great camera but more expensive by about 400 dollars than a Canon 30D.
Best of luck in the choice you make, sure it will give you many years of great picture taking, it is the person behind the camera that matters really.

[Cmcburnett]

Sandi, thanks for your reply. It seems that everytime someone responds to this thread I learn something new. I have changed my mind 3 times since making my final decision on a camera based on this thread. I am just going to bite the bullet and go buy one. I think this is the brokest I've been in 20 yrs. Not complaining but my son's medicine I have to buy is $600 a month so buying a new camera should be out of the question but at this point in my life I should be able to enjoy something:confused:

[deedeeO]

Charlotte,
I currently own the Canon XT and LOVE IT!! When I purchased it, it came with the 18-55mm lens. A very nice basic lens. Upgrading from the Nikon Coolpix 4300, this camera just totally blew me away. I also choose Canon because of the hugh selection of lenses; and good ones for reasonable prices (i.e. the 50mm f/1.8 for $80). When Canon came out with the XTi, I really wanted to get one....but decided that I am going to hold out for the 5D. You know the big difference between the XT and the XTi is the no. of megapixels (8 vs 10) and now you can get the XT for a very good reasonable price, thus investing more of the money into a good set of lenses... The Canon lenses are of superior glass quality, the L-series just rocks and the image stabilization is just a life safer for hand held photography. I've been renting Pro lenses (70-700mm IS f/2.8 and the 300mm IS f/2.8 - soon:)) and they work like a pro on my little XT. Just something to consider and my 2 cents.

Oh, and the learning curve is FAST, FAST, FAST.....plus Canon has their own forum...http://photography-on-the.net/forum/index.php
Good luck with your choice..
PS. I usually get all my camera equipment through B&H...superb customer service...and good prices.

[LeeOtsubo]

Hi Charlotte,
Isn't it fun to see how everyone is so helpful spending your money! I've stayed out of this because choosing a camera brand is sort of like religion or politics.

Let me just add that there isn't a dSLR out there that can't exceed the needs of 99.9% of amateur photographers. You could line up Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Oly, Pentax, Sony, Sigma or even a Samsung, choose one with your eyes closed and it would meet your needs.

From my experience teaching people who own dSLRs, Nikon has the best ergonomics. Nikon controls and menus are much easier to figure out and adjust. Canon has the best low light capability. If you want to take lots of photos indoors or in the evening, Canon is the choice. I don't see enough of the rest to comment.

I used to advise people to think of the entire system including lenses, flashes, accessories and gizmos before buying but I've since come to realize that most amateur photographers will never own more than 2 or 3 lenses at the most and many will always keep just one lens on it at all times.

Bottom line, buy the camera body that meets your budget and start taking photos. Every day you delay, you've missed 1 sunrise, 1 sunset, 12 hours of daylight, 12 hours of night and countless photo ops. HTH.

[tomlaronge]

Lee,

Your religion and politics are excellent!

I have one comment to toss out to embellish what you wrote. If you are looking for lowlight metering capability one must consider not just the camera brand, but which lens is being used. Specifically to not add misery to this gemish of facts and not-so-facts, some of the brands you mentioned have aperture cutoffs below which their meters will not read. As I am certain you knoe, this is a matter of lens aperture as well as overall illumination intensity. Frankly, I think that photographers in search of photographong black objects ahainst a black background might benefit from taking up pastels.

Tom

[Cmcburnett]

From my experience teaching people who own dSLRs, Nikon has the best ergonomics. Nikon controls and menus are much easier to figure out and adjust. Canon has the best low light capability. If you want to take lots of photos indoors or in the evening, Canon is the choice. I don't see enough of the rest to comment.

Lee thank you for replying, I was hoping you would post. I am probably making a lot of to do over little to do. I think the Nikon might be the one I buy, I need the easiest to figure out and adjust. I will be one of the folks who will probably only buy a couple of lenses. It will be interesting what camera I actually make it to the cash register with:rolleyes: I like them all when I look at the stats.

Thanks again to everyone for your help.

[TonyW]

I think the Nikon might be the one I buy

Good choice :D. And I might even have to disagree with Lee about Canon vs Nikon and low light. Things have changed. I have no complaints about my D80 even at 3200 ISO. But Lee's right - any DSLR and even a number of non DSLR's would meet the needs of 99.9% of amateur photographers

Tony

[Caroleen]

Charlotte,
I'm pretty new to this forum but not new to cameras. I had a Canon for many years and was happy with it but when I decided to change to a DSLR I decided to try the Nikon D80. I purchased it back in May 2007 and I love it. You probably are better at aperature and shutter speed than myself.
One of the reasons I chose the D80 over the D200 was the weight of the camera. I end up with a headache carrying a heavy camera for a day trip.
I really do love my D80 and it has a lot more potential than I have learned about it yet but have gotten some really beautiful pictures. I was able to photograph my first grandaughter, born last week, and they came out great. I just have the 18-135 mm lens that comes with it. Like everyone else has said you need to go to the camera shop and feel of the camera - it sure makes a difference. When I picked up the D200 or the Canon I knew I wanted the D80. Just my 2 cents.

[tomlaronge]

Tony,

You said what I did not want to say. I agree. I also, like you have first hand expearance and I am not reading paper specifications.

Also, the noise level is lower in my opinion and easier to control.

Five years ago, I would not make these statements. Frankly, I find nothing overpriced with the D80. I realize that the camera is expensive compared to a point-and-shoot, but it is relatively in expensive by feature and performance. In addition, the kit lens is a wonderful hunk of glass and a wonderful value. Critics say it is not VR. True, but the balance of the lens on the camera is excellent and VR is not needed on an18-135mm lens. I can make these statements from experience because in our household we have this lens, have the 17-55mm f/2.8 and got rid of the 18-200mm VR. All three lens have good glass and take wonderful pictures.

Tom

[Caroleen]

Charlotte, you can go onto my gallery and look at my flower pics and the picture of my grandaughter and see the results if you like.

[Cmcburnett]

Charlotte,
I'm pretty new to this forum but not new to cameras. I had a Canon for many years and was happy with it but when I decided to change to a DSLR I decided to try the Nikon D80. I purchased it back in May 2007 and I love it. You probably are better at aperature and shutter speed than myself.
One of the reasons I chose the D80 over the D200 was the weight of the camera. I end up with a headache carrying a heavy camera for a day trip.
I really do love my D80 and it has a lot more potential than I have learned about it yet but have gotten some really beautiful pictures. I was able to photograph my first grandaughter, born last week, and they came out great. I just have the 18-135 mm lens that comes with it. Like everyone else has said you need to go to the camera shop and feel of the camera - it sure makes a difference. When I picked up the D200 or the Canon I knew I wanted the D80. Just my 2 cents.
Carol, thank you for your opinion about cameras. I love your gallery, thanks for pointing it out to me.