PDA

View Full Version : Trip to the NC mountains... NOT ONE good photo! Please help!


mswnow
January 1st, 2007, 11:14 PM
Help! I believe that kimh and I are on the same page about not being impressed with the photos recent taken by our new DSLRs. I am going to try to explain my situation, so bear with me even if it sounds like I am rambling a little; I'm very frustrated at the moment.

I have been using a Kodak Z740 for exactly a year now, and it was my first (useful) digital camera (or camera at all for that matter). It takes great photos and if this keeps up I will go back to using it solely. I have been considering a DSLR since last summer, and finally decided that it was time to spend a little "grandparents money" to supplement the limited Christmas budget and invest in a D80.

I got a good deal on a D80 and two lenses for $1199 at Ritz camera, and considering it was the last one within 30 miles and it happened to be at the wolf camera very close to my, it seemed like the perfect camera. (This was determined after countless hours reading reviews and comparisons b/t the D80 and the XTi). I had to wait 4 days before I could open it so by the time I opened it on Christmas day I could barely wait.

Everything I have read have said that the D80 is the best DSLR in the $1000 range for both the advanced amateur and the newbie looking to get into the DSLR world. I am very impressed with all aspects of the camera, everything I have taken before this weekend has turned out wonderful. It brings new meaning to the world of living room photos taken by new camera owners.

This weekend was my first chance to test it out in my equivalent of "fieldwork". We went to my grandparent’s 197 acre mountain property to spend new years with my grandparents. (My grandmothers birthday is on new year’s eve and she has just gotten out of being in a rehab center for 3 months with a broken leg, which was then re-broken when her foolish orthopedic surgeon prescribed a brace came up to within an inch of the break, but don’t get me started on that...)

I have a 512 mb card, and was limited to 87-112 shots before having to upload to my laptop. I took about 400 shots in the 3 days we were there. I have a tendency to take multiple shots at a time, usually no more than 3, with varying exposures and angles, etc. Of the 400 shots I took, about 200 were blurry (not extremely, but enough to make the photos hard to look at) and none of the photos had the sharpness and clarity as I have come to expect from my z740. Of the 200 not wrecked because of focus, at least 50 were too dark (indoors with a flash), and at least 100 were either overexposed or underexposed (when I say underexposed, I mean it.) Some of the shots taken during a mild drizzle reminded me from the scene in Jurassic park where the computer geek is escaping in the rain storm, (they were of my grandfather at the wheel of the old International Scout, being towed by the tractor). This kind of shot is important to me because it is the kind of shot that captures the essence of my family (which comes from a long line of Wisconsin farmers, now relocated to North Carolina who have made great engineers (for obvious reasons, need I say more?). Here are a few examples; the first is a picture of my grandfather in the scout at about 3 in the afternoon.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1gK21hoV5n4GM505p4xbOUqX3ac4391_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1gK21hoV5n4GM505p4xbOUqX3ac4391)

While I am enchanted by this photo in hindsight, and It does a great deal more than I could hope for of expressing who my grandfather is (they said DSLRs were a lot smarter than P&S, but are they really that smart?), it is nowhere near the image I intended to capture and I am very dissatisfied with the cameras automatic settings for that Image. The second image is to prove that it did this multiple times and was not just a fluke exposure, and the third is an image taken about 15 minutes earlier and a good deal down the road, note that the lighting did not change significantly, and it stopped raining before the first photos were taken, (reverse chronological order).

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1ipRFbyCu1d6WyKlJB2nTEIEV5Dyad0_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1ipRFbyCu1d6WyKlJB2nTEIEV5Dyad0)

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1HnCsfcT72SMU0kdznVL4voejBCa0G0_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1HnCsfcT72SMU0kdznVL4voejBCa0G0)

I don’t think I have explained the situation of those photos quite enough. It was a wet overcast day, and, in my opinion, a great day for picture taking. The scout had been on the top of the list for things to get done for awhile, as it was stuck in the old tobacco barn. The back park brakes had both seized up, and so we planned to use the hydraulics on the back of the tractor to lift the back wheels off the ground, and pull it up the mountain to the house to work on it under a dry roof with such conveniences as electricity and fire extinguishers. What a photo op!

The situation could not have been better for capturing those images that you see on greeting cards and calendars with a simple caption of three symbols: “?!?” The situation was made even more idyllic when one of the wheels broke loose, causing the scout to naturally turn to the right as we attempted to pull it out of the barn, around the sharp steep turn down to the road, and then maneuver the tractor around it to pull it up the hill. I would have expected better results from my new DSLR! (though I know all of this can be corrected rather easily, I just don’t know how yet, I would expect better from full auto mode none the less)

While I know that the real advantage of DSLRs is being able to control manual settings, that is exactly my disappointment with my D80. With my Kodak, I got to understand what iso, aperture, shutter speed, etc did just by playing with manual settings during lax moments, and was able to produce good photos with manual mode, without any kind of photographic understanding of what these meant. All of these settings could be adjusted in full auto mode. This was so handy, because if auto mode messed up, you could fix it and get good results, with my d80, you have to switch to manual, and it defaults to the settings used the last time you shot manual, not from the settings just applied in auto. I often used this on my Kodak to get an approximate range of settings and then tweak them manually. With my D80, I have to start from scratch as far as settings go. I don’t think that Nikon understands how even advanced camera users can benefit from automatic modes.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/13MzCRhd4Vo4kfPU532zwO5Ym3lMo81_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=13MzCRhd4Vo4kfPU532zwO5Ym3lMo81)

I took three of these from different angles and none of them came out correctly exposed, but was in too much of a rush to be able to completely set the settings in manual mode.

Of the other photos I took this morning in the normal sunlight, along with that pic of the ATV, some came out very contrasty, some came out too bright, none came out great, even though it was a very beautiful clear morning with not too much sun but very clear air that usually produces crisp photos.

Overall, none of the photos I took this weekend came out great. I got a few good shots of my dogs, but even the photos I took using a tripod (in full manual so that it theoretically would produce the same exposures) planning to make one of those collages where you line up a lot of photos taken randomly of a landscape from the same spot. All of these photos came out with different exposures. Some the sky was highlighted, some the sky was dark but the land was right, even though I didn’t care which it was as long as it was the same and progressed gradually as I went across the sky. No such luck.

Part of the problem is that I cannot learn to take good manual photos without being able to take good auto photos as I go along. I have to be able to take good photos in the mean time to make it worth the effort of lugging my camera around with me. Can someone help me, I have no clue what I’m doing wrong and really need some help!

mswnow
January 1st, 2007, 11:15 PM
Here are a few examples of what I have taken at the mountains with my z740!

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/160nclDP2Fq5UOXjqSG7VrrVGJcEXN1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=160nclDP2Fq5UOXjqSG7VrrVGJcEXN1)

The slight haze is caused by the exhaust from the tractor; I picked a photo of us when we first discovered the wheels had locked up about 4 months ago.

http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1t1R27UkOb69jCgBoWkcr0ws8sMGYW1_thumb.jpg (http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1t1R27UkOb69jCgBoWkcr0ws8sMGYW1)

To give the situation a little bearing, I included this photo of the tobacco barn the Scout was being kept in. If you didnt notice, the hill is straight, the barn is not. though all sides are straight, the barn is built with the hill, it looks like a parrelellogram from the front.

I’m going to try to save some of the other photos, and if I do I’ll post them here later. Hope you can help, and thanks for being such a wonderful community!

cathy
January 1st, 2007, 11:30 PM
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f291/cathymiller/ncmtnscopy.jpg

this is my take on this...at least how to correct this photo.

Contrast Mask...off to find the link for you..

of course i am still learning of this myself..lol
http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16674&highlight=contrast+mask


Sorry I reread your post and see that your main concern is the camera...sorry i can't even think about helping you there.

Edmund
January 1st, 2007, 11:38 PM
It will be extremely difficult to critique you photos without a example of some of those shots. I've been using Nikon gear for a long time and just recently bought my first digital camera the Nikon D-80 with the kit lense 18-135 DX nikkor lense. I find my pictures to be extremely sharp and properly exposed. You failed to mention which lenses you have, Are they Nikon Glass or some other make? If a normal shot in good light and say ISO of 100 is blurry then most likely it is camera movement. Because you probably shot at least from 1/125 to say 1/250 of a second. So camera movement was the problem. Give us some examples of some of the shots and the meta data(iso,speed,f-stop mode etc) so we can get a better handle of what the problem is. I can see from re-reading your post that for some reason I can not see the links provided in your post for those pictures. Possibly My anti-?? is blocking out those links.

LeeOtsubo
January 1st, 2007, 11:48 PM
Michael,
When you prepare a photo for the Web in a situation like this, don't use File, Save for Web. That strips out the EXIF data and makes it impossible to see what your camera was doing when the photo was taken. Second, tell us a about your lenses. That may not be the answer but it offers some insight into how the body might be reacting.

Obviously, the photos are underexposed. Did you check your histogram as you were shooting? Is it possible you accidently dialed in negative EC? Were your lenses too slow for the conditions causing the camera to be unable to set an appropriate aperture/shutter speed? What ISO were you using?

Please repost your photos after resizing with Image, Resize, Image Size. Set Resolution to 72 dpi and size to 640x480. That will make the image smaller but retain EXIF.

mswnow
January 2nd, 2007, 12:18 AM
I'm about to go to bed so I dont have time to re save the photos, but I can tell you that I used my Nikkor 28-80mm lens on all of those shots (which should have been fine)

I checked the EXIF data for the images that look like jurassaic park. I cant figure out how to copu and pase exif data easily in PSE but I'll tell you this:
Shutter- 1/80
ISO-1600
fstop-3.3
exposure mode- not defined
no flash
focal length-28mm
contrast-normal
saturation-normal
white ballance-auto
exposure mode-auto

My main concern is how to get the camera auto mode to take better pictures than this. I usually dont have time to futz arround with manual mode as things are moving arround me and cant wait for me to take 16 pics till i get the settings right. What am I doing wrong?

In the morning I'll include some of the better pics (from the whole weekend) (the ones that are either distracting, or too contrasty or improperly exposed).
Maybe you will be able to tell me more from those, as those were in normal conditions.

I think the blury one might have been my convern of getting my new camera wet, so time seemed to move alot faster, I dont think I spent as much time between each shot as I thought I was at the time. I took a look at the exif data for that and I think I had it on P mode by accident on that one. (I havent been able to figure out exactly what P does so if anyone could fill me in there that'd be great)

Edmund
January 2nd, 2007, 12:31 AM
Again I can not see you link but aso of 1600 is really high and could/will give you noise problems. Depending on the light, but something doesn't sound right ie ASO 1600 and shutter speed 1/80th at f3.3 auto mode just don't look right?

ME100FINN
January 2nd, 2007, 09:38 AM
Michael, the P mode is a step away or up from the auto mode. It takes auto features but allows you to change one or two settings (maybe like flash and ISO change only). This will depend on the camera model.

As basic and silly as it sounds.. honestly.. pick up the manual and read it. Yes, honestly, read it. I made a switch from a high end Sony digital to Canon dSLR and it was a TOTALLY different beast!! I too had a grip on the concept of aperture, shutter priority, etc. but it was basic and not enough to use that idea on dSLR. More specifically, it didnt apply to the Canon. The camera acted differently.

The first time I used the dSLR on auto I was extremely disappointed. I cringed thinking my husband spent all this money on something that doesnt work. My heart sank. It takes time to warm up to the dSLR and understand its mechanics. Embrace it - read up on your model - check out the Nikon website and read all about it. Find forum for that model and see what other users are saying ... it will increase your productivity AND understanding of the camera.

Meanwhile - on my Canon, I learned I cannot go lower than 1/60 or I get blur. Sometimes, depending on the condition, that may get some blur. Even though your shots are underexposed on the outdoor shots you posted above, that is what the camera interpretted to be accurate - it surely isnt your natural eye. Maybe the subject was too far away - also, check your metering settings. That can make a big difference sometimes too.

Take one step at a time - master one setting at a time... you WILL get through this, I promise. I was in your shoes. Soon you will be wanting more lenses to broaden your options to capture new images....

msbrad
January 2nd, 2007, 09:52 AM
Whoa, Michael, I am sad to hear of your disappointment, and frustration with your new camera.
Although I am not able to offer any insight to your problem, I did learn from reading what the experts posted for you.
For me, I better stick with what I have and not make any slr jumps at present. I will keep on reading and learning.
m

LeeOtsubo
January 2nd, 2007, 10:12 AM
...I checked the EXIF data for the images that look like jurassaic park. I cant figure out how to copu and pase exif data easily in PSE but I'll tell you this:
Shutter- 1/80
ISO-1600
fstop-3.3
exposure mode- not defined
no flash
focal length-28mm
contrast-normal
saturation-normal
white ballance-auto
exposure mode-auto

My main concern is how to get the camera auto mode to take better pictures than this. I usually dont have time to futz arround with manual mode as things are moving arround me and cant wait for me to take 16 pics till i get the settings right. What am I doing wrong?...

You don't need to cut & paste the EXIF. By using Resize, the EXIF is left intact in your image and can be read with PSE or OPanda IEXIF. Where was your Exposure Compensation (EC) set? Also, what Metering Mode were you using. If you were set to Spot, that might explain a lot of things.

Finally, not to be harsh but, if you don't want to futz, you might reconsider a dSLR. "dSLR" is the Japanese word for "futz". :D

kimi_boo
January 2nd, 2007, 10:17 AM
Michael..

I am also new to the D80.:) It is definitely taking some getting used too. Standing outside the other night I missed most of the fireworks because I could not find the bulb setting. :eek: (I did find it, by accident)

I have to say I love the images I am getting out of my camera. Yes I have had some hiccups. Everything I took on Christmas Eve was underexposed with only the small flash from the camera. I changed my ISO to auto with a max of 800 for Christmas Day and not one image was bad.

This is where I am. I have kept my ISO on auto with a Max of 800
(if I know I am going to be taking outside shots I will of course change it back to 100)
I am shooting in Aperture Priority Mode so I can control my DOF.
I am using the Auto Focus. (just love it!!) It makes it impossible to take an out of focus image.

Here is the link to the Nikon D80 forum.
http://www.nikonians.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID236
I check in at least once a day. With so many newbies from Christmas, it is easy to pick up something I can use. I do feel I need a class and I have a very long way to go before I can say I know how to use this camera. :o

just my 2 cents...

troush
January 2nd, 2007, 11:33 AM
I bought my D50 because I was starting to get frustrated with my Fuji... It turns out it was probably me ;) . I was surprised about how many fuzzy pictures I still got with my D50 at first. Then, I read a bunch of books and went to Nikon school. Even though it was a lot of review, I totally enjoyed Nikon school. And, I hung out at nikonians.org a lot too. (Too much to do these days.) My pictures are much better today, and I can even take pictures of my kids (as fast as they are) in M some days. I have rarely been disappointed with Auto on my D50, and even revert to it when I have trouble in M (then look at the settings that Auto did, and see if I can make mine match and get the same results).

One thing for sure they said at Nikon school is that if you are using a lens with a range (like 28 - 80), and even if you are down at 28mm, you still need to have the shutter speed at at least 1/80 - if not faster. You are right at the edge of the speed/camera motion issue.

Although, going through my Christmas pictures, I did find I needed to do a Levels adjustment for most of them (just a tad underexposed).

-Trish

NickLewis
January 2nd, 2007, 11:42 AM
Hi Michael,

Can I reiterate Lee's suggestion and urge you to repost the images with their full EXIF data embedded? There is much more data recorded than the small set you've relayed so far.

That will show more or less exactly how the camera was set up at the moment you pressed the shutter release, and enable us to give an informed opinion as to why the camera rendered the scene the way it did, rather than, e.g., simply observe that they are underexposed or blurred.

From the data you gave, which I assume is from the underexposed pics, it seems that the camera has opened the lens to its maximum aperture, but we can't tell why it hasn't taken the shutter speed down any further.

Nick

lowbone
January 2nd, 2007, 01:46 PM
I shoot Canon so some of the names are different but the functions are essentially the same. Try the following.
Read the manual cover to cover at least twice. Shoot RAW or at the highest jpeg setting. Set the ISO at 200 or no higher then 400 ( 1600 is absurd for what you were shooting). Make sure you have not accidentally moved your exposure compensation up or down. ( check where this is in the manual) Forget about auto for now. You will never learn what your camera can do if you hide behind the auto setting. Forget about manual as well. You are not at a point oof development where this will help you. Shoot in AV TV or P settings. Check the information in your viewfinder. Remember that you are shooting with an aps sized crop sensor. a 100mm lens becones a 150mm equivilent, a 50mm lens becomes 75mm. Make sure your shutter speed is at least the focal length you are using, faster if there is motion. Make sure your lens is set to AF. Set your meter to evaluative for now, I think it is called matrix on a Nikon. Center, partial and spot come later, after you know what you are doing. These are just a few points that might help you with your problems. Cameras are dumb and so are camera meters so you will have to eventually have to learn certain things to overcome what the camera wants to do but for now you just have to learn how to use it. Good luck, I will check this forum to see if you have any more questions.

lowbone
January 2nd, 2007, 01:49 PM
I want to add one thing. When you press the shutter half way down you will lock focus. Make sure that the focusing points in the viewfinder are actually on what it is that you are trying to focus on. If not find out how to move the focusing points or how to use center focus. Its all in the manual. Read it Read it Read it.

mswnow
January 2nd, 2007, 04:24 PM
Well, I havent had much time today, Im in the middle of studying for an AP Bio test on the first day back. But here is what I have learned. I mentioned the photos i took intending to make a photomerge, I discoved when looking at the exif data that ISO auto even applies to manual... I didnt know that, I'll have to figure out how to turn that on and off.

Ill try to upload some pics with exif data soon. I cant promise though, knee high in books ATM and this is my "lunch break". thanks for all your positive encouragement, exactly what I needed!

TonyW
January 2nd, 2007, 05:20 PM
Just ran across this thread and am very interested as I also just upgraded to a D80 and I must say that while I'm still on the learning curve so far I've been very impressed with it. Confession: I'm a manual reader and am on my third read and still haven't got it all figured out but I'm learning fast. I've tried all shooting modes and RAW but, for now I'm sticking to P mode, JPEG fine which gives me all the flexibility of shutter speed, aperture and ISO I want while not being constrained by what Auto decides (although when I've checked it was pretty much what I would have used). My approach (and the beauty of digital). Look at the settings, see if they make sense, take a picture, preview it see if it's what you expected. If not figure out what's wrong (which may take a trip back to the manual), delete it and reshoot until you get what you want. So far that's working for me and my batting average has improved considerably (have even some now where I'm getting it right first time :) .)

Confession 2: I enjoy futzing around with camera settings, if I didn't I wouldn't have bothered upgrading as there really wasn't anything much wrong with my other cameras - a Sony P&S and a Fuji more than a P&S but not quite a DSLR.

Tony

PaulH
January 2nd, 2007, 05:41 PM
A lot of good advice on here already.

NO camera is a panacea for incorrect exposure, focus, or movement (shake).

Point and shoot, SLR, DSLR, film, slides, digital even video - it is all just capturing illuminated objects.

I have the D70 - have had it for 16 months and 10,000 plus images, was shooting SLR and slides starting in '69.

Auto mode - a useless piece of **** setting that should never have been put on these cameras, along with all those other iconic modes (landscape, portrait, night portrait, etc.)

Although I spent 30 years shooting only manual pre-digital, I find using either shutter or aperture priority is my main modes. Aperture if I need to control depth of field and shutter for action.

I would never use greater than 400 ISO without expecting some noise.

Auto-Iso - I feel it has it's place - but mainly when on manual.


Get at least 2 2 gig cards, they're cheap.

Shoot shoot and shoot, learn proper ways of holding to minimize shake.

Lock the camera on the center focus area and understand it - otherwise you WILL find yourself with it moved to another, incorrect position.

Use auto bracketing if exposure seems to be a problem.

Learn to check the histogram on the LCD. Also to look for blown highlights.

You have a great tool, used properly it will amaze you.

ME100FINN
January 2nd, 2007, 07:21 PM
As unpredictable as auto settings can be on a camera, that is how I really learned what my Canon can do. I took tons of pictures and studied the EXIF to see what happened under different conditions. Then I moved to P mode and changed a few options to see how the camera responded. It really helped me understand the camera more. Then I cycled through the rest of the settings and I was able to handle them better.