Searching, Searching

[walkingstaff]

I"ve got what I know has to be a common problem, taking a picture inside a house of someone with a window brightly lighting them from behind.
This has to be something solved a hundred times before.
I want to both know how best to take the picture in the first place and
second, how to use elements to make it even better.
Which leads to my problem.
Searching. In this particular case, I spent a half our trying every key word I can think of. No joy.
So, not only do I hope for help in this case, but any good hints on the more general case of good search techniques would be appreciated.
Given the absolutely incredible number of posts in this resource I'd bet almost every question I could ask has already been answered if I could only figure out how best to root them out. Surely there is some better advice than 'try more keywords' But I have to admit in advance that I'm afraid that going to be the answer I get. :eek:
Anyway,
Merry Christmas to All:
Peter

[kevq]

Peter,
can't help with your search problem, sorry.
As to the lighting problem, on my camera I use fill in flash, this seems to solve the problem for me. I'm sure that you will get more advice from better photographers than me.
Kev.

[Wendy]

Hi Peter ...

Not as easy one ... if at all possible I just try to avoid taking photographs when someone is near a window. If I do have to then I use flash that usually stops the window becoming a problem and makes sure that the person is properly exposed.


Wendy :)

[Chuck S.]

walkingstaff:

If you're using PSE 3, 4, or 5, try using the Shadow/Highlights tool, which is found under Enhance>Adjust Lighting>Shadows and Highlights; it can do wonders to an overly contrasty scene.

My recommendation is to duplicate the background layer (Layer>Duplicate Layer) and perform the enhancement on the duplicate layer. That way, if you don't like the result, you can simply delete the layer and try again, leaving your original image intact.

I use Shadows and Highlights on a lot of images, sometimes just a tweak and other times a heavy dose.

Chuck

[Juergen D]

Peter,

As far as searching goes, I searched here for "overexposed window" (in quotes), which yielded one thread. Doing the same search in Google, I got 311 results.

Juergen

[nkeevers]

Well, not sure if I'm answering this correctly (and anyone can jump in here) but most cameras have a light meter that determines the amt of light present. If you're shooting someone in front or near a window, you might look for something nearby that is dark (maybe a part of their clothing or a dark wall or something). Press and hold the shutter button down halfway to lock in the exposure on this dark location. Then go back and position the camera on your subject and take the picture. The bright background might be even lighter but at least the subject will be properly exposed. You can always fix the background in PE.

Hope that helps. I remember reading about it in one of my digital magazines. It does help.

[Chuck S.]

Norma, there are some tough choices to make when the contrast is severe. If you expose for the subject you want to be perfectly exposed, you may completely blow out the highlights - at that point, the window might have to be surgically replaced. If you expose for the window, your subject will be way too dark and may in fact have no picture data left to bring up with post-processing. An average of the highlights and shadows may be a good compromise, with detail left in both the lights and the darks to be rebalanced with Shadows and Highlights.

kevq's suggestion of camera fill-in flash, coupled with a shooting position that eliminates or reduces the effect of the window, is probably the best choice of all.

Chuck

[mom to 4]

Peter:

What I tend to do on the editing part of the problem is SIMILAR, but different, to what Chuck does.

I duplicate the layer. Then I change the blend mode from Normal to Multiply. (blend mode is directly above the layer and the layer tools, next to the opacity. I duplicate that layer until I get the background as dark as I want it.

When I get the background dark enough, I merge the layers above the background. that leaves me a background and one layer. I then use the eraser tool to erase the people or items which were correctly exposed in the original picture from the top layer.

I don't know, maybe chucks way is easer, but this works like a charm every time for me. I love this method.

[nkeevers]

Norma, there are some tough choices to make when the contrast is severe. If you expose for the subject you want to be perfectly exposed, you may completely blow out the highlights - at that point, the window might have to be surgically replaced. If you expose for the window, your subject will be way too dark and may in fact have no picture data left to bring up with post-processing. An average of the highlights and shadows may be a good compromise, with detail left in both the lights and the darks to be rebalanced with Shadows and Highlights.

kevq's suggestion of camera fill-in flash, coupled with a shooting position that eliminates or reduces the effect of the window, is probably the best choice of all.

Chuck

What about using auto bracketing mode? That way, you get several different exposures and work from there.

[Chuck S.]

Norma, that's a good suggestion. I've never tried it but it would be worth a shot.

Chuck

[lindajay]

Peter,
As far as searching the forum threads . . . I've had problems using the "search" at the top of the page as well. But another way of searching, which seems to work a lot better, is to use Google. Go to Google, and select "advanced." Then where it says "return results from the site or domain", enter www.photoshopelementsuser.com. It seems to work a lot better.

[Diana]

Thanks, Linda, for that tip. I would never have thought of that! It works great.

Diana

[Ellen]

If you have the Google tool bar it has a button that you can use to search only the site you are on. I think it was Tony that pointed it out and it is quite useful.

[walkingstaff]

Thanks to all for the great ideas, both in how to take the picture and how to process it. I do try to avoid the situation, but lately it seems I've been forced into it fairly often. Must be something about the holidays:)
Linda's idea about using Google search and restricting to a site is one of the most valuable tips I've ever gotten. Somehow I had never noticed that option. I love this site, but I don't love the search tool :D
- off to take pictures to practice post processing on --
Peter

[Wendy]

Hi Peter ..

Do lt us know how you go on with it :)

Wendy

[EddieAC]

Hi Peter.

One possible solution that may help would be to focus on the subject but take a meter reading from the background and use the flash to illuminate the subject.

It may not work perfectly as a reading directly from the window will probably cause any other background to underexpose but you may find a balance by using a stop or two less exposure compensation.

This can help outside with portraits but I am not sure about indoor shooting.

Maybe at least worth a try.

[nkeevers]

Peter, let us know how the picture taking comes out. Looking forward to your posting it.

[msbrad]

Some real good tips here that I will try to comprehend, apply, but it leads to more questions (sorry).

re: fill in flash... does the camera say that somewhere? I've not noticed it anywhere on mine (Sony f828), however I do like the idea

re: multiply the background...love that idea, but haven't done too much with the blending modes. Once the background is duplicated, do you then change the mode to multiply? And it does it, are there other places to click to make this happen. Mine just looked the same.:confused:

re: the auto brackets, where are they?

re: press the shutter half way to lock exposure...do you continue to hold it there, and then finish it off with the 'real' picture you want?
Thank you for the google tool bar and search ideas.
m

[mom to 4]

Michele:

starrt with your background. Leave the blend mode as is. Duplicate the background layer. THEN change the blend mode to multiply. Then, duplicate that layer as many times as you wish, check, but I am sure the blend mode on the new layers will say "multiply". When you are satisfied with the darkness of the area that was too light merge all the duplicated layers together. Now you will have a background layer (normal blend mode) and one other layer (multiply). Now grab your eraser and eraser the parts that are too dark from the duplicated (multiply) layer to let the background layer show through.

Easy as pie!:D Remember, I don't do anything that is difficult!

[TonyW]

re: fill in flash... does the camera say that somewhere? I've not noticed it anywhere on mine (Sony f828), however I do like the ideam

If it's the same as cameras I've had then you should have a Flash mode where you can turn the Flash on - sometimes called forced flash - that will fire the flash every time not just when needed. I use it often - even outside on sunny days when the subject is back lit.

BTW I think your camera should also have spot metering setting - that's what I would use for a dark subject against a bright background - it will determine the exposure of the subject rather than averaging over the whole area, of course that will mean that the background gets overexposed.

Put a vase of flowers in front of a bright window and experiment :)

Tony

[nkeevers]

If you have an "auto bracket mode" in your camera, each time you press the button to take a shot, it'll take 3 pictures...it'll take one based on the camera's recommendation; one that is brighter and then one that is darker. I believe bracket modes have plus or minus ranges that determines the aperature or shutter speed and you can change in your camera depending on how you want your results to be. Or you can do it manually with your camera on Program mode if you have that. Auto bracketing, if you try it, is easier though because you don't have to take the time to set up manual adjustments.

Just my thoughts though so don't etch it in stone.

[msbrad]

Thank you so much. I know that was a loaded question(s) for sure! But I do appreciate the answers and I think I got it now... (~yea!)

Tony, I do have the forced flash, and I do use it, just never knew if "fill flash" was something totally different. I will practice with something in front of the window to see what is taking place.

Colleen, I like your step-by -step directions, as I am never sure in the blending modes, when to blend.

Norma, I do have the brackets! Just never thought about what they did other than take quick pitures ( for sports etc.) Now I'll pay attention and practice with those for lighting too.

m
"learning something new every day"
p.o.s.l.

[mom to 4]

I think the thing I like most about this forum is that everyone knows something different! Also, everyone is so willing to help. It never ceases to amaze me just how quickly someone will jump in and help! The other thing that I think is really cool is how someone who thinks they don't know anything is able to surprise themselves and help someone else! What a great group of people we have here!

[nkeevers]

Yeah, I surprise myself sometimes!:eek: Only problem is sometimes I don't practice what I preach!

[msbrad]

Oh Norma, LOL. that is priceless!!

Colleen you are so right.
I keep thinking, as, I am the p.o.s.l. (President of Slow Learners;) )
that I cannot contribute, but every once in a while I manage... something
I do love this place and the comaradierie (sp:confused: ) that goes with.
m

[nkeevers]

I wondered what posl meant! Now I'm LOL!!!

[msbrad]

AND I'VE EARNED IT!;)
m