RAW or JPEG

[musbou]

I am so new I don't even have a digital camera or Elements, but am learning so I make the right choices. Can someone tell me what I can and cannot do with RAW and JPEG? Also, I am looking into getting the Nikon d70s camera, but am not sure if RAW from Nikon can be processed with Elements. Can anyone set me straight, or at least a bit crooked?

[drummermom]

Hi there,

I have the D70 and love it. I shoot RAW+JPEG with it. I like working with the RAW files because: a) there aren't artifacts associated with file compression; b) I can easily adjust the white balance, sharpness, saturation, etc. by simply opening it and working with the RAW editor, leaving me much more editing flexibility; and c) I'm hoping that Elements will ultimately upgrade to allowing me full editing on 16-bit images (which RAW images are).

The downside to shooting RAW is the space it takes on your card and hard drive, so be sure you've got plenty of storage on both!

Hope that helps,

Karoli

[Matt K]

Hi and welcome.
I'm personally a Canon guy but several people I work with have the D70 and love it. Frankly, at that level its more about the person holding the camera than it is the camera itself.
As for RAW vs JPEG. The previous poster nailed it pretty good. You get much more flexibility with RAW and the RAW editor with elements is kind of your "one stop shop" for editing your photos whereas editing JPEGs requires a few different dialogs and so forth. Plus, shooting in RAW is like always having that "digital" negative to go back to. They are larger files so your CF card will fill up quicker. Make sure to take that into account when you buy the camera and get a good size card (at least 1 if not 2 Gig). The nice thing about it is that you can switch between JPG and RAW mode. When I'm just out in the backyard taking pics of the kids I'll usually just shoot them in JPEG for some quick family memories.

[Patricia Heere]

Hi Matt

I am thinking about upgrading my camera later this year and most of them come with RAW now (the ones I am considering). Does RAW have a long processing time (like TIF)? I guess what I am wondering is if it can be used for much other than landscape and portrait shots. Also, I prefer point and shoot cameras so I know that makes a difference although I own and will buy the prosumer model.

Pat

[mikegarth]

Hi Musbou,

Everyone here has summed it pretty well. I would just reiterate that RAW does have its place. I think I would phrase it, "RAW, don't leave home without it."

As said earlier, it's your negative. It essentially provides a blank canvas. However, don't use it as a crutch for poor shooting technique.

I own two D70 bodies and shoot lots of RAW. For financial consideration, I shoot sports, portraits and headshots. RAW is invaluable here. I have friends who shoot portraits, even weddings, in JPEG and get fantastic results. They reserve RAW for their commercial work.

My recommendation would be to get a camera that has it. That way you have it at your disposal. :D

mike

[lindajay]

I'm also curious -- as Pat is -- about the in-camera recording time. I find my camera takes so long to finish recording a TIFF that I've about given up taking them!

Thanks for any response on this.

--Linda

[Wendy]

I would be interested to get some feed back on this also.

I keep saying that I will try out shooting in Raw but haven't done so yet ... there always seems something else to learn :). So it would be nice to know if the time factor is greatly increased?


Wendy

[richs]

My Sony F828 takes raw but I am forced into it recording a JPEG at the same time. This makes the write time considerable and I can only get 21 shots on a 512mb CF card. In fine quality JPEG the same card will hold 130 shots. There are versions of the cards that write at different speeds. I am using the UltraII and there is an Extreme which writes faster but the cost is more. Prices have come way down in the last year though.

[richs]

Some additional info on RAW vs JPEG. Found these specs on my camera. This is 8 meg:
3264x2448 RAW is 13.5 sec. (6.2 process / 7.3 write)
3264x2448 JPEG Fine is 1.4 sec.

This does vary by brand, type of storage. Also cameras vary in process time.

TIFF is approx. 2 sec. faster than RAW.

[Wendy]

Oh dear 13 seconds is a long time ... :(


Wendy

[lindajay]

It surely is! I guess one would only do RAW images when it was a very special occasion. Thanks very much for those statistics, Rich. Gives me another thing to think about for the next camera purchase.

[Wendy]

Just wondering if anyone has any figures for the 300D (Rebel).


Wendy

[GaryK]

Wendy

Don't forget, thats just the time it takes to write from the buffer.
I just shot raw for the first time with my Rebel last weekend, so I'm still learning.
I was doing landscapes on a tripod with 30 or so second exposures and used the exposure bracketing. The camera didn't seem to mind and I took my time and enjoyed the forest. :)

Gary.

[Wendy]

Gary,

As soon as I can get some time off I am going to try it ... we are away in a few weeks so maybe then :)

Wendy

[GaryK]

Wendy

Im off the last week of July.. so if you guys are coming to the "Great White North" give me a ring. :lol:

Gary.

[jesshen]

There is a timing chart for the Canon 300DRebel here:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/page10.asp

If I have understood the chart correctly, he times they give for RAW is around 2.5 seconds, and for jpeg around 1.8. That really isn't such a huge difference... not like 13 seconds, anyway?

Now for the Rebel XT the times are even closer, like 1.2 for RAW, to 1.1 seconds for jpeg.

I don't know about other brands or makes of cameras but you can find them all on the same dpreview website under Cameras> by manufacturer> in-depth review> look in the drop down menu for Timing.

I don't have either of the two Canon cameras (yet!) but am thinking and hoping hard for the Rebel XT. I have shot RAW on my Canon G2 and have not noticed an especially long recording time in-camera, but maybe because it is already a little slow anyway being an older camera so a little more doesn't bother me :wink:

Hope this helps someone.

Jessica

[Patricia Heere]

I read a pre pre-review last week on the new Samsung prosumer point and shoot that is coming out in September. It is supposed to be really nice (8mp, 28mm to 15x optical zoom). It has RAW but I want to see the DPReview when they get their hands on it to see if it measures up as far as lag time and other things go. I carry a camera with me all the time in my handbag so I don't really have room for a SLR with 2 lenses. I'm not a pro, just like to take pictures of things that interest me. I will be getting RAW though just so I can have it and for landscape shots. Don't imagine I'll be using RAW for hummingbird shots though.

Pat

[GaryK]

MMMMMM...yummy..raw hummingbirds :lol: :lol:

I just started trying raw Pat. Other than the size issue, the only drawback I can see to shooting everything in raw, is the extra step when loading into Elements.

Gary.

[Patricia Heere]

Gary,
Just so I understand. If I shoot RAW it will process as fast as JPEG on a point and shoot? Right now TIF takes a couple of seconds while JPEG is ready again almost at once.

Pat

[GaryK]

Pat

To be honest, when I tried it (just last weekend) I was also trying to be "creative" :lol: . I had my camera on a tripod and was taking 30 second exposures of water/streams ..trying to get that smooth effect. I wasn't paying attention to how long each frame took to write.
From the sounds of the other couple of posts, it seems to depend on the camera.
From what Jessica read, my camera takes 2.5 secs for raw and 1.8 for jpeg.
I don't shoot continuous but I think I can take 2.5 frames in 3 secs or something like that (maybe faster..I'll have to check the manual).
So I could probably shoot 10 or so seconds continuous before the camera really starts to slow down and get maybe 7 or 8 shots in that time.

The 2.5 seconds is just how long it takes to write from the internal buffer to the card. My shutter time is still instant. It just hit me, that you may be getting shutter lag mixed up with write speed, or maybe not.

Gary.

[Patricia Heere]

I probably mean write speed. Not sure. I used to shoot film when I was younger but with the advent of digital I have been using point and shoot cameras as it more fits my style. I use an Olympus C740UZ which has a pretty fast response when I hit the shutter but takes awhile in TIF to write to the card so I miss the next shot if I am into action. I know RAW is bigger than TIF so I thought it would take longer to write. I will get RAW the next time I get a camera but probably won't use it for everything.

Pat

[kconlon]

I too have a D70 and shoot in RAW/JPEG fine. I haven't notices any delays when shooting, I can still shoot about 2-3 fps in RAW mode. I shoot photos of my kids soccer and baseball and the color saturation in the RAW is much better than the JPEG. One thing I would highly suggest is get a fast cf card. I use a 1GB Lexmar 80x.
Oh yeah, do your self a favor and get a usb 2.0 card reader, it can take forever to transfer photos using the camera.

I do have a quetion about RAW/JPEG. How can I have Elements display only one image. I get a thumbnail of both the RAW and JPG file?

Blue Skies

Kevin

[Wendy]

Oh those speeds sounds quite reasonable ... thanks for finding them Jessica :)

Just what I wanted to know !


Wendy

[drummermom]

My D70 shoots 3 frames/sec in RAW format. Raw+JPG is a bit slower, but certainly not noticeably.

The D70 has a big buffer, so it takes some time to write to the card, but I've shot a LOT of action shots and never noticed a slowdown in performance shooting RAW.

[lindajay]

Drummermom - are you saying that you can shoot additional photos, with the D70, even though it is still writing to the card??? That's not the case with my Olympus. I have to wait for the last shot to write to the card before I can take another shot, which is why I have nearly given up on taking TIFFs. Maybe I'm not understanding correctly.

--Linda

[Wendy]

Linda ...

Some cameras have a buffer so you can shoot fairly quickly and the buffer acts as a memory for the images until it can write them to the card ... the Canon Rebel buffer will take around 14 jpgs.


Wendy

[richs]

On my Sony F828 the RAW and TIFF images are not buffered and you have to wait for the write to finish before another shot. The buffering is definitely a spec. to look into if you intend to shoot a lot of RAW.

[lindajay]

Aha! I will definitely want that buffer feature on my next camera!
--Linda

[GaryK]

Linda

If you find one that takes "X" frames per second then you have a buffer of a fairly good size. Providing X is 2ish or 3ish :lol:
Most reviews these days will tell you how many FPS the camera shoots, and for how long they can sustain this.

Gary.

[lindajay]

Thanks, Gary. I KNOW that a new camera will be on my wish list for the very near future. Mine was okay when I got it, but things change so fast!

--Linda

[Patricia Heere]

Mine will shoot 3-5 FPS if I set it in that mode but not sure if it will do it in TIF. I also have any olymplus.

Pat

[drummermom]

My first digital camera was an Olympus. I HATED how slow it was when I was shooting in TIF format....took forever. The Nikon was like having a whole new world opened to me.

For those who asked earlier in the thread, the Nikon D70 has a large memory buffer, so it can capture and hold a lot of data (about 3-5 RAW images) and write it back while shooting more, which is how the 3 fps time is achieved. Most of the newer digital SLRs have this feature -- I'm pretty sure the Canons do, anyway, but the Nikon was -- bar none -- the fastest of all I tried.

I had a Canon Film SLR for 25 years (until my hubby dropped it and basically rendered it useless) and it was a huge big deal for me to make the decision to switch to a Nikon. What did it for me was that we had Nikon lenses for the husband and son's SLRs that worked well on the D70 AND the fact that I could shoot digital the way I used to shoot film without worrying about writeback times.

I do use the SanDisk Ultra II fast CF cards and that makes a difference as well.

Karoli

[Leah]

I've seen Olympus mentioned a few times, so, even though no one has mentioned this particular model (I have a 5050), this web site below illustrates how much variance there can be with write speeds of different cards. The firmware version, in some cases, impacted on the information also.

http://hem.passagen.se/birchs/images/

(go to section where it says "write speeds of different memory cards")

I alternated between RAW and JPEG images last weekend while shooting dragboat races -- while I wasn't making any scientific tests, the RAW slowed me down some because, like others have mentioned, I found I had to wait until it had written to the card before allowing me to continue shooting (or so it seemed.) In regular, non-action type photos, when you have more time to spend on the photos, I do prefer RAW because it gives you more detail and, is handy to adjust white balance.

I have used TIFF very infrequently, as I find it is very slow.


Leah