PSE 3 won't open, won't download photos

[jray]

After no problems with PSE 3 for the past year that I've had it, suddenly I can't get it to open. Part of the organizer screen is displayed and the program appears to be frozen. I can't even close it without using the task manager, which states that the program is 'nonresponsive.' I'd really appreciate any help with this. Thanks.

[NickLewis]

A few basic thoughts:

Have you done anything to your machine since you last successfully ran PSE? Installed or uninstalled software, perhaps?

Are there are any other programs running while you're tryin to open PSE? If so, close them down and try again.

Are you running out of hard disc space?

I assume you're running on a PC, since you mention Task Manager. If so, you could consider using System Restore to take your system back to a condition in which PSE was running.

Nick

[jray]

Yes, I am running low on hd space. My hard drive is partitioned, and the section that PSE is on is down to about 500 mb's. Problem is, there's not much there I can get rid of. Most of it is program files. I tried to use system restore, but for some reason I could not get it to go to an earlier month. This month, the only restore points are for the past three days, which is when I started having the problem. Any ideas? Thanks!

[NickLewis]

Well, hard disc space could well be your problem. I've no detailed knowledge of what PSE needs, but the PSE3 system requirements are for 800Mb of HD space, while my PSE3 program files folder only occupies 256Mb. Presumably it does want 500Mb or so to operate in.

Have you run Disc Cleanup, cleared down Internet Explorer's file cache, emptied your Recycle Bin and so on? Quite surprising amounts of space can be taken up by these if you've not done any housekeeping for a while.

If System Restore isn't helping you, you could also try disabling that, which would free up some space. At least that might establish whether lack of drive space is your problem.

Nick

[Carbone]

Maybe you could move the scratch disk from where it is to another disk (especially since your system is partitioned).

Ray

[Juergen D]

500 meg sounds awfully tight. How much RAM do you have? Elements normally uses half of that and then goes to virtual memory, which is written to the HD. If that small available disk space is fragmented, you will have a problem.

Juergen

[jray]

Well, I think you are on the right track. Actually, PSE3 was installed on drive D, which still has plenty of space, but it appears that some of the program files are also on drive C(I have no idea how this works). But, it is C that is almost full. I have 512 mgs of RAM. I have got low memory messages before, usually when I had a bunch of images open in Editor, and the problem has resolved when I closed some. But I have been getting this message more often, and tonight, when I again tried to open PSE, after several minutes I finally got an "out of memory" error message. So, I take it this means I need more RAM? I have space to add up to a total of 2 GIG's. How much do you recommend? I sure appreciate all of the assistance on this. This is a great forum.:)

[NickLewis]

Well, of itself, lack of RAM shouldn't be the problem. PSE3's minimum requirement is for 256Mb, and the recommended amount is 512Mb. So you should be able to at least start the program up!

Someone who knows more about the inner workings of PSE may be able to advise, but the "out of memory" error may be referring to "virtual memory" as well as RAM. I.e. disc space.

You may succeed in "papering over the cracks" by fitting more RAM, because that may forestall PSE looking for disc space. I don't know. I run in 1Gb with no issue.

But from what you've said, the problem you really need to address with your machine is lack of space on C:. At the moment, you have so little that your overall PC performance is almost certainly being impaired, not just PSE3.

As a rule of thumb, any drive should have about 15% free space. Below that the filing system doesn't work efficiently, and Defragmenter has difficulty doing its job effectively. I have occasionally encountered it failing to run to completion at all.

Try defragmenting c:, because your problem may be that either Windows or PSE can't find sufficient contiguous free disk space. But you may not be able to do it without making space.

To try and make space on C:, I'd recommend:

1) the things I suggested in my earlier post

2) run a search on C: for *.tmp files. Also files whose filenames start with the tilde sign (~). These are temporary files that applications should delete when they've finished with them, but frequently they get left behind. Microsoft's advice is that is that you should be safe deleting any of those over a week old. The "should" is in case you only use your machine infrequently, I'd guess, or in case some app is particularly badly behaved. I've never had any problem arise from deleting them, but your mileage may vary.....

3) move the PSE scratch disk off C: - but it may not be there anyway if PSE runs from D:, and I don't know how to do it unless you can start PSE to begin with!

4) move the Windows Paging File off C:. You access this via Control Panel>System>Advanced>Performance>Advanced>Virtual Memory

5) uninstall some programs from C: and reinstall them on D:

6) Unless you need to use it, make sure Hibernation is disabled. This can be a real space hog. Access this via Control Panel>Power Options>Hibernation.

This is all a bit messy, but you need more space on c:! Fitting a new hard drive is not a simple solution, because you'd still be short of space on C: unless you do these things, or unless you know how to successfully clone your existing C: partition to the new drive.

If you need more explanation, shout,

Regards
Nick

[Juergen D]

Hi,

Good advice from Nick. Here are a few additional (supplemental) points.

Hoping that you will be able to launch Elements after some of the cleanup, go to Preferences and change the Plug-Ins & Scratch Disks setting to D: (First only, leave the other ones at None).

In Memory & Image Cache, change Cache Levels to 3 or 4 and possibly up the Memory Usage from 50% to 60 - 65%.

While 512 meg of RAM is sufficient, I would still recommend to up that to 1 gig. That won't hurt anything, and will help with the overall performance of the computer while Elements is running. It should not be necessary, though, if you follow the other suggestions.

Juergen

[jray]

First of all, thanks so much for the time you've all taken to try to help me with this. To update, I have now increased memory on drive C to 1.20G, which I know still isn't really enough, but much better than where it was. I don't understand, though, why the memory on C varies even though I have not added anything. For example, this morning after getting rid of some programs and making some of the suggested changes, it was at 1.35G. Now, it is down to 1.13. I did change the scratch disk to D, and I did change the paging file to D. I defragged C, although it still needed a little more space, but it did a better job than before. I disabled the hibernation mode(what does this really do anyway?)
Where is Memory and Image Cache located? If it is in control panel, I couldn't find it.

Now, to make it more clear exactly what PSE is and isn't doing: I still can't open the organizer. When I try, I still get a partial screen, and at the bottom of the screen it says 'searching' (and apparently never finds what it is searching for!) I can't close it without going to the task manager, which states that the organizer is not responding and states that the CPU is running at or close to 100%, which immediately drops dramatically when I shut down the organizer.

As for how I was able to get to the scratch disk, I discovered that the Editor works and can be opened via a 'back door'-- if I click on an image icon in my D drive that was saved as a tif file in the editor, it opens that image in the editor, which is completely functional. But, I can't switch from the editor to organizer-- same thing happens.

Any more ideas? I would hate to have to reinstall the organizer and lose all the images that I have organized and tagged.

[jray]

Knew there was something I was forgetting to add. If I try to download files from a flash card(via card reader) the adobe photo downloader opens and everything proceeds as it should until it gets to where the organizer is supposed to open. Hope I'm not being a pest, I'm just trying to be as clear as possible about exactly what is happening. Thanks again.

[Juergen D]

Where is Memory and Image Cache located?

I would hate to have to reinstall the organizer and lose all the images that I have organized and tagged.
Memory and Image Cache is set in >Edit >Preferences.

I am not an Organizer person, don't use it and don't really know too much about it. One thing I know is that you can reinstall without loosing images or the catalog. You would be un- end reinstalling both, Editor and Organizer.

There is possibly something wrong with your catalog and it may need to be recovered (restored?). Hopefully someone here can help you along with that.

If that does not help, resetting the preferences may be another option. It would have to be the 'global' resetting, which is done by renaming the folder 'C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Application Data\Adobe\Photoshop Elements\3.0' to 3.old (If you have a different login, replace 'Owner' with it). As a matter of fact, I would try this first.

Juergen

[Barb O]

Suggest that you look at the following FAQ at the Adobe site

http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx/.3bbc74ff

Even though your symptom is not exactly the same. Your out of memory at the time that you experience it MIGHT be a corrupt thumbnail cache and point 3 in that FAQ discusses the thumbnail cache.

However, I would still try points 1 and 2 of that FAQ first because they are much simpler and quicker to implement. If they fix your problem then no need to do point 3. Note that what Juergen suggested in his post is basically point 2 in that FAQ.

Barb

[TonyW]

As for how I was able to get to the scratch disk, I discovered that the Editor works and can be opened via a 'back door'-- if I click on an image icon in my D drive that was saved as a tif file in the editor, it opens that image in the editor, which is completely functional. But, I can't switch from the editor to organizer-- same thing happens.

This doesn't solve your organizer problem but when you're in editor, go Window>Welcome and change the bottom left to Open in Editor. That way at least you'll always be able to get in easily until you fix the problem.

Tony

[jray]

:) Thanks! Organizer still won't open, I'm still trying things(just tried #1 and 2 in the adobe FAQ as recommended above) but at least I can open Elements more easily now.

[Juergen D]

Here is a thread in the Adobe forum, take a look, especially at the last post:
http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?128@@.3bc1e8d5

Juergen

[jray]

Okay, I have tried everything suggested, and still cannot get the organizer to open. I tried to do a new thumbnail cache, but could not complete this because the organizer still wouldn't open. If I let it run for several minutes, while the task manager states it is not responding, eventually, I get Memory Error: out of memory. I now have 2 free Gigs on the C drive(not the one Elements is installed on) and 10 free Gigs on the D drive(where I installed elements.) So, does it sound like more RAM is the answer, even though 512 is supposed to be enough? Or, should I try to reinstall Elements completely? I appreciate all the time and effort you guys have put into helping me, and if you have any other ideas, I'm all ears.:)

[NickLewis]

Congratulations on clearing so much space - now your machine can breathe a bit!

I still don't think that RAM is your problem, because you're over both the minimum and recommended amounts. And Editor opens. Even if you've got a huge catalog, I find it difficult to believe that PSE is going to fail to open because of a lack of physical memory. I'd have expected it to use virtual memory to sort itself out.

That said, RAM is cheap enough, and can only improve performance in general, so you might want to try that route. Personally, I'd have thought going to 1Gb would certainly eliminate RAM as a potential source of the problem. You could go to more, but that might not be a good cost/benefit decision. That partly depends on how you need to fit your RAM, in terms of what slots your motherboard has, and whether you need to fit it in particular combinations.

BTW - I suppose you haven't actually developed a memory fault have you? Is Control Panel>System still actually reporting 512Mb for example? And no other programs are playing up?

Also, have you checked your disk for errors? (Right click on C: in My Computer, then Properties>Tools>Error Checking.) I'd select both of the check boxes. You'll need to reboot to check the C: drive, because Windows will be using it. The check can take a while, but should eliminate the possibility of corrupt files. Watch whether it reports errors. It'll fix what it can, but, if it does find errors, I'd be very tempted to reinstall.

If you decide to go down the reinstallation route, my understanding is the same as Juergen's - you won't lose your catalog. If you're feeling hypernervous, you could take a copy of it first - it might help if something goes awry. By default, you'll find it in C:\Documents & Settings\All Users\Application Data\Adobe\Catalogs. You'll have to make sure that you can see hidden files and folders first, or you won't see the Application Data subfolder (Go to Explorer, Tools>Folder Options>View to do this, in case you didn't know.)There's also a subfolder called Catalog Folders. I don't know whether you need to copy these, nor do I know whether any of this would actually help you!

In answer to a couple of questions you asked a few posts back - the space on C: varies independently of anything you do because Windows and other programs use it in the background for working space and temporary files. You should housekeep it on a regular basis if you're short of space. And "Hibernation" enables you to exit Windows, and then restart your machine into exactly the condition it was in when you left it. The same programs and documents will be open and running. It does this by copying a memory image to disc, which is why its a space hog. I believe it can be a bit flaky - but I've little first hand experience.

Good luck!
Nick

[Juergen D]

The more I read about this, the more I think that you may have a corrupt file on your hands. If My Catalog is corrupted, reinstalling may not fix the problem.
I have found this information, which deals with Album, but could possibly help in your situation. Especially the instructions how to recover the catalog and to deal with the thumbnail cache file. I don't know if it works the same in PSE3, but it certainly is worth a try.
http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/330418.html

Juergen

[NickLewis]

If Juergen's right, and the problem is a corrupt catalog, then the following procedure may help you establish that:

1) Try and open Organiser with the CTRL key held down
2) This should open a dialogue box that offers to compact, recover and open the catalogue. Obviously, you could try that.
3) Cancelling the dialogue will bring up a Open File dialogue that will offer you a choice of any other catalogs in your default location
4) Cancelling this dialogue will open another dialogue offering to start Organiser with a new catalog.

If the problem is that your catalog is corrupted, this may not help recover your data, but it should at least get you into Organiser. If you still can't get in, then probably your catalog isn't the problem.

Nick

[jray]

Okay, I've checked these things. No memory error. No corrupted files on C(which is where the catalogs are, even though the program was installed on D.) I've tried building a new catalog, which was supposedly 'successful', but did not fix the problem. I tried to rebuild the thumbnail cache but couldn't get in to organizer to do this. It does seem odd that editor would open if memory is a problem, but this is the message I eventually get if I let organizer try to open for several minutes. I've got low memory messages before, usually when working with several files open in editor, which probably was due to the congestion on C prior to cleaning it up. If more RAM doesn't help and a reinstall doesn't help, where do I go from here?

[NickLewis]

No idea. Let's cross that bridge when you've crossed the RAM and the Reinstall. ........ ;-)

Your choice which order you do them in, I think!

Nick

[jray]

LOL!! Okay, I will keep you posted, though you're probably getting tired of hearing from me.

[jray]

Okay, I decided to try reinstall first-- no harm done, right, and it's free. I inserted the disk and chose the repair option. It started all of the prepare to install stuff, but then I got a message saying Insert the disk: 1. I checked in my computer and the computer is recognizing the CD-rom drive and in fact recognizes that the PSE disk is inserted. I took it out and reinserted a few times, kept getting the same message. Oh, by the way, I finally talked to a tech at Adobe support after being on hold for half an hour, only to be told that they no longer sell that product and therefore do not provide any support for it and all he could tell me was to go buy PSE 5. I am beyond frustrated. If I do buy 5 and install, should that bring the organizer back?:confused:

[Juergen D]

The repair install does not work. You have to uninstall and reinstall all the way.

Juergen

[jray]

Does Adobe just do these things to torment us? A program writer with a streak of sadism? LOL! Okay, so it I deinstall and then reinstall, does that mean I lose everything?

[jray]

Nevermind, you answered that already. Thanks again.

[Barb O]

"I've tried building a new catalog, which was supposedly 'successful', but did not fix the problem."

So you created a new Catalog with a different name - what did you name this new catalog? You said this did not fix the problem. Are you saying that even using this new Catalog you can not open/start the Organizer completely?

If the Organizer can successfully open with the NEW catalog:
"Now choose Edit > Preferences > Files and make sure Automatically Search for and Reconnect Missing Files in NOT checked. Once this Preference is changed, choose File > Catalog... and again try to open your original Catalog. "

Note: The part in quotes is from one of the threads at the Adobe site that Juergen referenced.

[jray]

Well, I did a deinstall and reinstall, and at first organizer wouldn't open but after trying the sht/alt/cntl thing again it finally did.... however, the catalog is one that I had on photoshop album a few years ago...none of my recent photos, though they are still in the file browser in editor. Is there still any possible way to get back the recent catalog instead of having to import all of these images and retag? Thanks.

[NickLewis]

Oh, by the way, I finally talked to a tech at Adobe support after being on hold for half an hour, only to be told that they no longer sell that product and therefore do not provide any support for it and all he could tell me was to go buy PSE 5. Regrettably, this is true - although strictly it's not because it's not current. They are still supporting PSE4. http://www.adobe.com/support/programs/policies/supported.html

A shame you didn't have this problem a few weeks ago, before PSE5 was released. They might have been supporting PSE3 then. But it's a rather underwhelming policy - not to be supporting product that could be only just over a year old.

[jray]

Yes, I thought that was pretty tacky. I guess it is a good way to ensure that people will keep buying upgrades even if they don't really want them. I haven't paid much attention to 5, so I don't really knowif I want it or not. Anyway, at this point, Organizer is operating again, but the only catalog is an old one from photoshop album, and no thumbnails just question marks. I don't know how to get my recent catalogs back. I really don't understand what is going on. I do know I still have all of my images in the file browser so if worse comes to worse I'll just have to start over with the organizer. I really do appreciate the help that everyone has given me. I know you've really put some time and effort into it. Hopefully I'll be able to return the favor at some point. Thanks again.

[NickLewis]

Anyway, at this point, Organizer is operating again, but the only catalog is an old one from photoshop album, and no thumbnails just question marks. I don't know how to get my recent catalogs back.Result!! You're welcome.

Have you checked in the location I suggested earlier? Or searched all your drives for "*.psa" files? It may be that your catalog isn't in the default location.

[jray]

Well, finally I just started getting photos from files, and when I did, I discovered that many of the tags were still attached. Not all, but a great many. It certainly won't be like starting all over. And of course, they are all organized by date as before, so this too makes it very helpful. I am very, very relieved and very grateful for all of the help I've received from you and everyone else. You have all really hung in there with me, and I am very appreciative. What a great forum this is!

[Wendy]

Hi ...

Oh I am so pleased that it is working out OK .. I have been watching the thread with interest but being a Mac user I couldn't help. :)

Wendy

[NickLewis]

Well, finally I just started getting photos from files, and when I did, I discovered that many of the tags were still attached.

I'd forgotten that might happen. Which was silly, as it happened to me only a few days ago, when I had occasion to remove a load of photos and reload them. They were RAW files as well, which puzzled me as, AFAIK, PSE doesn't/can't write to RAW files.

Presumably it was still squirrelling some record of them away.

One final piece of advice - back your catalog up when you've recovered it..... ;-)

Regards
Nick

[Juergen D]

It is great to hear that things are under control!

Juergen

[jray]

It is great to have things under control, thanks! One last question: where do you guys learn all this stuff? I would have not had a clue to try the various things suggested here without your help. Even though, in my case, many of them did not work, they were all possible solutions and have obviously helped others from the searches I've done on this forum. I have several books on elements, but none of them address what to do when things go wrong with the program. I even went to a bookstore and did some research, and came up with nothing. You would think software glitches simply didn't exist! (Don't we wish!) Also looked at several books on general computer knowledge/skills. They were all very basic-- ie, how to send email, how to burn cd's, etc. I would really like to be more knowledgeable about the kinds of things you guys helped with. Can anyone recommend any good books that are somewhere between the computers for dummies ilk and things written for professional computer techs? Do any of the courses here address these issues? Thanks again.

[Wendy]

Hi ...

To be honest I haven't come across any books that cover this sort of thing ... I think that most of the time you tend to find that you pick things up when people post problems on forums :eek:

I know thats how I have picked up most of my stock of knowledge :D

Wendy

[Juergen D]

Like Wendy, I have learned a lot by following forums. Never read a book and don't know that there are any. Also, having worked with Elements for several years, I have run into a share of problems myself. Getting them resolved got me to start thinking along certain lines.
I do enjoy troubleshooting. Often times I am just interested in a problem that somebody posts and I will start researching and/or testing and trying out things.
And, having some IT background does help. :)

Juergen